Turkey hunting forum for turkey hunting tips

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/352-the-rise-in-nonresident-turkey-hunting-license-sales/id859529852?i=1000530467595

Non resident hunter #'s exploding.  More regulations every day. Hunter opportunity lost. . Social media / YouTube is screwing this sport beyond belief. 

Thanks for posting it

Quote from: arkrem870 on July 30, 2021, 07:10:22 PM
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/352-the-rise-in-nonresident-turkey-hunting-license-sales/id859529852?i=1000530467595

Non resident hunter #'s exploding.  More regulations every day. Hunter opportunity lost. . Social media / YouTube is screwing this sport beyond belief.

Hey ark - just got done listening to the podcast. The numbers are
mindblowing. What some states have done to themselves is insanity!
All of this is at the residents expense.

I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

And it's undeniable statistical data directly linking YouTube channel pimping of public lands for profit  to loss of hunter opportunity and increased pressure on an already stressed resource. 

And what do propose we do? Outlaw YouTube? Good luck with that.

One thing that is undeniable statistical data is social media is directly linked too people complaining.

Outright ban of filming on public lands for profit, youtubers recognize the damage they've  done / doing and quit voluntarily for the resource, or we could get back to the basics and police it ourselves in the woods   A few ideas

Of course more ideas on how we right this wrong are encouraged.  It's an important issue. One of the most important In recent years for wild turkey/ hunting /hunters.  If we stay in this trajectory spring hunting will be forever changed and hunting opportunity will suffer a great deal. Again. We've lost March ....what's next?  Resident only seasons and non resident quotas in nearly all states?

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

So what? He reached a larger audience and made folks aware of the issues going on. Sounds to me like the guest on podcast is genuinely concerned with resident hunting quality (guy is okay with his opportunity being limited to protect a residents hunting, think that says a lot about his character) and not so much about lining his pockets with OnX paid partnership money OR even taking money from state wildlife agencies to go and exploit the bird for monetary gain

Quote from: arkrem870 on July 31, 2021, 10:52:31 AM
Outright ban of filming on public lands for profit, youtubers recognize the damage they've  done / doing and quit voluntarily for the resource, or we could get back to the basics and police it ourselves in the woods   A few ideas

Of course more ideas on how we right this wrong are encouraged.  It's an important issue. One of the most important In recent years for wild turkey/ hunting /hunters.  If we stay in this trajectory spring hunting will be forever changed and hunting opportunity will suffer a great deal. Again. We've lost March ....what's next?  Resident only seasons and non resident quotas in nearly all states?

So you want to ban filming hunts on public lands? Do you want filming hunts on private land banned as well?

No, private lands are private and filming is perfectly fine. 

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

What u call bashing I call bringing to light. In what world is it okay for states to take away hunting opportunity but turn around and pay some youtubers to promote and bring in more hunters. " Hey the turkey population is declining so lets limit the days people can hunt, lower the bag limit, and pay youtuber to promote how good the hunting is in the state". Makes a lot of since doesnt it? So either you are deaf/dumb/blind, to simple to comperhend whats going on, or u just flat out refuse to believe that youtube/social media has had any negative impacts on turkeys. You obviously aren't deaf, dumb, and blond because you were able to type a message so its one of the other 2.

Quote from: Stoeger_bird on July 31, 2021, 11:21:05 AM
In what world is it okay for states to take away hunting opportunity but turn around and pay some youtubers to promote and bring in more hunters.

This has been going on for a very long time. Many state agencies have funds allocated each year specifically for promoting hunting in their state, using ads and promotions on billboards, radio, TV, YouTube and the list goes on. In the case of a hunting show, it's usually not much though, maybe reimbursing them for license fees and fuel costs to travel to the state.

We should write and call our state officials to quit using our funds to pay influencers to reduce us as residents opportunities to hunt the public lands we hunted all our lives. Like they said one call is not going to do it.
They've destroyed our seasons n Alabama Tennessee and Georgia. I suggest they charge fees for  videoing on public grounds. I'm thankful for these guys bringing this podcast to a larger audience for discussion.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 11:39:34 AM

Quote from: Stoeger_bird on July 31, 2021, 11:21:05 AM
In what world is it okay for states to take away hunting opportunity but turn around and pay some youtubers to promote and bring in more hunters.

This has been going on for a very long time. Many state agencies have funds allocated each year specifically for promoting hunting in their state, using ads and promotions on billboards, radio, TV, YouTube and the list goes on. In the case of a hunting show, it's usually not much though, maybe reimbursing them for license fees and fuel costs to travel to the state.

So your cost is covered and you're getting paid by YouTube on top of that? Seems to me you're just digging your self a deeper hole for the people that feel the way do you about you guys. FWIW I don't mind you guys, but things have certainly changed as a direct result of YouTube.

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

An email address is given at the end of this podcast with an invitation to any influencers to come on the show to defend their position. We look forward to hearing from you soon.

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

Hey Shane, would love to hear more insight from you. Feel free to PM me if you'd like. Just curious, do you think the stats shared in this podcast are wrong? If so then it seems that the show hosts as well as the person they're are interviewing are nothing but outright liars. That's a pretty strong accusation and one that I would imagine those with a platform wouldn't want to step in unless they're pretty comfortable defending with additional and or more concrete information.

I've thoroughly enjoyed watching yours, as well as several others videos over the past few years. I believe you and some of the few others I've watched have a love for the hunt, and typically respect the bird, the resource and other hunters as well. Unfortunately, there have been others increasing in frequency as of late that I cannot say the same for.

I think in moderation when done properly some of these channels can be a useful tool in advocating ethical, sustainable hunting, the animals we pursue and the lifestyle and or way of life that many of us value, know and live. And when I use the word advocate please know I use and choose that word very carefully! Because, I see a big difference between advocating and promoting. Typically an advocate is one who is speaking up for or stepping out on behalf of another.

I think that was some of the enjoyment many had initially at some of the YT channels that night and day different from the promoted hunting shows on TV which has become more about promoting the hunter than anything else. I see a big difference between between promoters and advocates as Promoters, it appears are simply more about pushing someone, or something simply for their own gain. Sure it might look good in certain light and from certain angles, but they care little for the shadows that is cast. When the one trophy or achievement is obtained they just move on to the next.

So again, there are some things that could be very beneficial from your insight from you and a few of the others and I'd love to hear it. If you have other information that disputes some of this other information and brings more clarity to some of these issue and particularly the information shared in the Podcast mentioned I'd love to see it as well.

As a resident hunter of FL some information was shared that is absolutely in line with what myself and many others have been feeling, witnessing and saying for a while now.  As a resident public land hunter I can tell you we've been losing more and more every year. To say I'm concerned for what's going to happen in 2022 would be mild.

However, I'm a bit "hypocritical" (you should go back and listen to the entire recent Chubbs episode if you haven't) because I'm a frequent non-resident hunter in GA and have my concerns  there as well as the other states i get to occasionally visit as time permits. At the end of the day myself and many others are losing time and opportunity at an ever increasing rate. We have valid and real concerns.

The way things are going it would be great to join together and advocate for and with one another (which I'm all for) instead of pointing fingers and calling names . Lots of information and misinformation floating around and being spewed from too many angles and we have to many problems going on for all us it seems. The token stance, "you just do you", or "you just do it your way and don't worry about what or how others do it" isn't doing a great job of bringing any of us together.

So, I'm open as long as long as in agreement we're fighting for, or advocating for something together vs I'm just fighting for my own thing, or my way, or myself on my own.

Quote from: cwedding on July 31, 2021, 12:45:46 PM

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

An email address is given at the end of this podcast with an invitation to any influencers to come on the show to defend their position. We look forward to hearing from you soon.

Thank you for the clarification. Would love to hear this.

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 11:39:34 AM

Quote from: Stoeger_bird on July 31, 2021, 11:21:05 AM
In what world is it okay for states to take away hunting opportunity but turn around and pay some youtubers to promote and bring in more hunters.

This has been going on for a very long time. Many state agencies have funds allocated each year specifically for promoting hunting in their state, using ads and promotions on billboards, radio, TV, YouTube and the list goes on. In the case of a hunting show, it's usually not much though, maybe reimbursing them for license fees and fuel costs to travel to the state.

Yeah no big deal Shane, just a little bit of money to reimburse on travel expenses and licenses. Meanwhile I bust my  9 months out of the year to enjoy my spring season. And it angers me that state wildlife agencies are using my license money to fund this stuff! If a guy wants to film YouTube videos that's fine, but having a partnership with a state game agency really? Perhaps you didn't get to the point in the podcast when the cause/effect of the Arizona Coues deal partnership with Randy Newberg was mentioned. You know damn well there's a huge difference between a billboard and when a state pays a group to come exploit their state and rack in hundreds of thousands of views showcasing that state. Also how ironic is it TN cut their bag limit while simultaneously paying THP? What a joke. C'mon man don't act like we are all dumb and blind to what's going on, and at least act like you care a little about the common folk.

One thing I'd like to point out is wild game as a resource belongs to everyone in the state. Not just the resident hunter or fisherman of that state.

I will use Florida, my state as an example. We have a mini lobster season for two days. People come from all over to participate, GA, LA, AL, Carolina's. They obviously harvest a disproportionality large number of lobsters and drag them home. Would I love if they closed this season (2 days) or limited it? It would greatly benefit me as there would be more lobster for me to harvest over the season and bag limits could be higher.

But guess what people. Those lobster belong to everyone in FL. They belong to hotel owners that rent to out of state folks. They belong to the restaurant/bar owners who sell food & drink too people that show up for mini season. They belong to the dive & boat shops that cater these folks also.

Osceola turkeys, would I love for them to limit access or issue permits to residents only. Absolutely, be crazy not too. But those turkeys belong to everyone. People pile into the state for turkey also. And it directly impacts people's livelihood.

If COVID showed anything it is how thin of a margin some small businesses have. 

Does government need to balance these things to protect the resources and have even distribution of resources. Yes, its why they are there and have the jobs they do.

But there job is not to make it easier for locals to harvest game. Me included.

Quote from: TurkeyReaper69 on July 31, 2021, 01:23:09 PM

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 11:39:34 AM

Quote from: Stoeger_bird on July 31, 2021, 11:21:05 AM
In what world is it okay for states to take away hunting opportunity but turn around and pay some youtubers to promote and bring in more hunters.

This has been going on for a very long time. Many state agencies have funds allocated each year specifically for promoting hunting in their state, using ads and promotions on billboards, radio, TV, YouTube and the list goes on. In the case of a hunting show, it's usually not much though, maybe reimbursing them for license fees and fuel costs to travel to the state.

Yeah no big deal Shane, just a little bit of money to reimburse on travel expenses and licenses. Meanwhile I bust my  9 months out of the year to enjoy my spring season. And it angers me that state wildlife agencies are using my license money to fund this stuff! If a guy wants to film YouTube videos that's fine, but having a partnership with a state game agency really? Perhaps you didn't get to the point in the podcast when the cause/effect of the Arizona Coues deal partnership with Randy Newberg was mentioned. You know damn well there's a huge difference between a billboard and when a state pays a group to come exploit their state and rack in hundreds of thousands of views showcasing that state. Also how ironic is it TN cut their bag limit while simultaneously paying THP? What a joke. C'mon man don't act like we are all dumb and blind to what's going on, and at least act like you care a little about the common folk.

I simply stated a fact that many did not know, not making light of it. I've been approached to promote a state in the past but declined because I didn't want to be "working" while I was trying to hunt and enjoy myself. That particular state was going to use funds from their "Tourism Department", not their "Wildlife Department", to pay me. I don't know the details of the TN/THP promotion you mentioned.

Quote from: Crghss on July 31, 2021, 01:36:36 PM
One thing I'd like to point out is wild game as a resource belongs to everyone in the state. Not just the resident hunter or fisherman of that state.

I will use Florida, my state as an example. We have a mini lobster season for two days. People come from all over to participate, GA, LA, AL, Carolina's. They obviously harvest a disproportionality large number of lobsters and drag them home. Would I love if they closed this season (2 days) or limited it? It would greatly benefit me as there would be more lobster for me to harvest over the season and bag limits could be higher.

But guess what people. Those lobster belong to everyone in FL. They belong to hotel owners that rent to out of state folks. They belong to the restaurant/bar owners who sell food & drink too people that show up for mini season. They belong to the dive & boat shops that cater these folks also.

Osceola turkeys, would I love for them to limit access or issue permits to residents only. Absolutely, be crazy not too. But those turkeys belong to everyone. People pile into the state for turkey also. And it directly impacts people's livelihood.

If COVID showed anything it is how thin of a margin some small businesses have. 

Does government need to balance these things to protect the resources and have even distribution of resources. Yes, its why they are there and have the jobs they do.

But there job is not to make it easier for locals to harvest game. Me included.

I hunt as a non resident when time allows. Usually when you hear this argument it's based on resident hunters feelings compared to NR's talking about the the money they spend on out of state trips. The residents in turn poo poo said money as insignificant. The ownership of game not only being for resident hunters but for everybody in the state is an interesting angle. Food for thought. I think your take on the matter has merit specifically as a resident hunter.

Why don't some states allow the picking of mushrooms or ginseng from public grounds? I would assume it's because they know someone will start picking and selling to profit from public grounds. That mushroom or ginseng belongs to everyone right? But the removal of it is a negative to the landscape and an over abundance of people would result in total removal.

What if a state opened up for people to get whatever they wanted and then someone filmed a video about this? Wouldn't anyone that's super interested and watched the video want to go do that? The resource would be gone in a very short amount of time if too many people did this.

I know it's not a perfect analogy because we pay money to be able to remove turkeys from the landscape, but we've seen what happens when too many are removed and I'm afraid we're not far from that point again. We're going to keep seeing shorter and shorter seasons, lower bag limits, and more restrictions. More people will never equal more turkeys. Also, why should some get to profit from lands that everyone owns, from animals that everyone owns, and then cause less opportunity for anyone who does it strictly for the enjoyment.

I don't put all the blame on youtubers, I know it is mostly social media, this site included, but when something becomes the cool thing to do and people start doing anything they can just so people think they are good at something, it's never good for anyone.

I had some of the greatest times of my life when I was younger hunting ducks in flooded timber. I never even bought my stamps last year because of what that's become from too many people getting involved, and it saddens me that my children will never get to experience what I have. If we're not already at that point with turkeys, we're dang close.

I appreciate that. But I think the point of view that YouTube, social media, internet is destroying everything is very short sighted. Does it have an impact? Sure it does, I feel it's very minimal.

Numbers are down for turkeys. I don't feel hunting is causing this.

Loss of habitat or access to hunting grounds has been hugh in the last 30 years. Can't be over stated. Then the internet shows people where they can hunt. This is what people are really angry about. Don't  tell or show people where I hunt. Too late, there aren't any secrets anymore.

Predator is number contributor to low #'s as far as I can see. As stated endlessly on OG no one traps anymore. Coyotes are everywhere. So are raptors.

Raptors is the most overlooked cause of low turkey numbers, IMO. One reason the transplanting or stocking of turkeys was so successful in 90's was the absence of raptors. DDT decimated hawks and eagles. But like turkeys we restored the raptor population in the environment. This one is something we can't ever change.

Also the standard of living has been increasing. People have way more disposal income. In 1981 only people with money got on a plane to fly, for any reason. If some one went out west to hunt, they drove, it was a once in a life time trip. Now people get on a plane with their expensive tricked out gear and fly to hunt every year.

Fishing, hunting, hiking, camping is all getting over run with people. Because the population has been increasing and access is decreasing. We're all going to just have to deal with it.

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

Why is raising legitimate concerns or questioning the effects of social media considered bashing or complaining?  That's the standard go to.  Should we as invested turkey hunters, who view the resource and future of turkey hunting as a top priority, just turn our heads?  As a YouTube hunter why don't you address the negatives with a well thought out response here on this forum or why don't you seek out the invitation to the podcast?  I enjoy watching hunts, but beyond the enjoyment it brings, there's the reality that it's not all positive.  Provide the positives for the resource that results from promoting public land turkey hunting?   As one fellow YouTube videographer has been quoted, "I don't hear the state of XYZ complaining" in reference to to revenue increases from a huge increase in license sales.   Could this provide a positive?  Sure, but at what expense overall?  If the argument for one positive is increased hunter recruitment, should the same apply to all game being hunted?  I'd argue that increased turkey hunter recruitment, or more over an exponential increase in public land hunting, has played a role in the decrease in hunter opportunity.  As the podcast shared with Georgia, the biologist stated the limited opportunity is a direct result of the increase in public land pressure.  And no one is saying declining populations don't play a big role in increased restrictions.  It's not just YouTube.  FB posts or forum posts with specific information or pictures at WMA signs for thousands to see are selfish and irresponsible.  Someone, anyone, please convince me of one positive this provides.   

This was a great podcast and I applaud them for addressing and discussing the topic.  It coincides with what we ignorant "bashers" and "complainers" have been saying for a while. 

Quote from: Crghss on July 31, 2021, 04:16:33 PM
I appreciate that. But I think the point of view that YouTube, social media, internet is destroying everything is very short sighted. Does it have an impact? Sure it does, I feel it's very minimal.

Numbers are down for turkeys. I don't feel hunting is causing this.

Loss of habitat or access to hunting grounds has been hugh in the last 30 years. Can't be over stated. Then the internet shows people where they can hunt. This is what people are really angry about. Don't  tell or show people where I hunt. Too late, there aren't any secrets anymore.

Predator is number contributor to low #'s as far as I can see. As stated endlessly on OG no one traps anymore. Coyotes are everywhere. So are raptors.

Raptors is the most overlooked cause of low turkey numbers, IMO. One reason the transplanting or stocking of turkeys was so successful in 90's was the absence of raptors. DDT decimated hawks and eagles. But like turkeys we restored the raptor population in the environment. This one is something we can't ever change.

Also the standard of living has been increasing. People have way more disposal income. In 1981 only people with money got on a plane to fly, for any reason. If some one went out west to hunt, they drove, it was a once in a life time trip. Now people get on a plane with their expensive tricked out gear and fly to hunt every year.

Fishing, hunting, hiking, camping is all getting over run with people. Because the population has been increasing and access is decreasing. We're all going to just have to deal with it.

All the more reason for ALL turkey hunters to be responsible.  "We're all going to just have to deal with it."  Is that truly how you feel?   Not one person I've seen has claimed hunting is THE cause of the decline.  Not sure how many times this has to be stated.  I wouldn't argue with you on the reasons stated as contributing to the decline.  But, sticking our head in the sand and saying, "oh well, it's just a sign of the times" is a dangerous game to play.   Let's do that and see where we are in 5 to 10 years, if not sooner.  Normal growth in turkey hunter numbers, which equates to increased hours hunted, is sustainable with declines in turkey population.  What we have seen over the last few years, most notably within the last 4-5 years, is beyond that.   

The fact that states are exploiting a declining resource is VERY disturbing to me regardless of what department is funding it.  Especially when it gets to the point of having to change regulations due to the extra influx of pressure created by the influencers!

There is a difference between advertising your beaches, restaurants and theme parks VS a resource like deer or turkey.

Why not put that money paid to influencers to get more boots on the ground to enforce poachers and those breaking the law?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not saying that it's right  but boots on the ground doesn't sell motel rooms and steaks at the local restaurant. It's sounds to me like typical gov't. The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

As kind of a side note, with the way bannings are going in non-hunting spaces, I actually wouldn't at all be surprised if they banned hunting from YouTube within 2 years

Quote from: turkeyfool on July 31, 2021, 07:56:03 PM
As kind of a side note, with the way bannings are going in non-hunting spaces, I actually wouldn't at all be surprised if they banned hunting from YouTube within 2 years

Hadn't thought about that.   It wouldn't surprise me a bit.

X2 ... with everything leaning more and more left/woke... I wouldn't worry about YouTube much. I suspect anything related to guns and hunting to be banned from YouTube in the near future. 
I don't hunt public and don't have a dog in this fight.. but if you want to blame something, blame the hunt apps like OnX, etc.  That really ruined it for so many local guys that had their favorite public land honey holes..

Quote from: turkeyfool on July 31, 2021, 07:56:03 PM
As kind of a side note, with the way bannings are going in non-hunting spaces, I actually wouldn't at all be surprised if they banned hunting from YouTube within 2 years

Quote from: FL-Boss on July 31, 2021, 08:24:09 PM
X2 ... with everything leaning more and more left/woke... I wouldn't worry about YouTube much. I suspect anything related to guns and hunting to be banned from YouTube in the near future. 
I don't hunt public and don't have a dog in this fight.. but if you want to blame something, blame the hunt apps like OnX, etc.  That really ruined it for so many local guys that had their favorite public land honey holes..

Quote from: turkeyfool on July 31, 2021, 07:56:03 PM
As kind of a side note, with the way bannings are going in non-hunting spaces, I actually wouldn't at all be surprised if they banned hunting from YouTube within 2 years

30 years ago I didn't need Onx to tell me where I would likely find Turkey's. All it took was a topo map, a plat book and a little footwork. 20 years ago Google earth got into the mix. Onx has just combined them for me. Saves a lot time trying find maps and plat books but not really because they are available online now. The footwork is still the same. The reason honey holes are lost is because more people are out looking for them.

Yeah I mean I see both sides when it comes to OnX. Overall I think it's a great app. It's been a lifesaver for me not only scouting but also even just getting out of the woods or driving around areas without service. It's certainly gotten more popular because of YouTube but I'm not sure that OnX in itself has been the fault of declining populations. It's just a factor. I think you'll also find more guys in the south are ticked about the travelling turkey hunting deal than the northern states

Quote from: turkeyfool on July 31, 2021, 09:15:17 PM
Yeah I mean I see both sides when it comes to OnX. Overall I think it's a great app. It's been a lifesaver for me not only scouting but also even just getting out of the woods or driving around areas without service. It's certainly gotten more popular because of YouTube but I'm not sure that OnX in itself has been the fault of declining populations. It's just a factor. I think you'll also find more guys in the south are ticked about the travelling turkey hunting deal than the northern states

I would imagine so on the traveling turkey hunting thing. The saying in the duck hunting community is "nobody hates a duck hunter more than another duck hunter." I think it could be modified to "nobody hates a duck hunter more than the guy hunting next to him."
As far as the Onx thing goes I think it's more technology and the internet combined. Onx is just an easy scapegoat.

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

I'll take your word for it seeing what I've seen here. I thought I was selfish till I saw some of the stuff posted on forums....I understand it sucks seeing more people in your woods every year, but it's not just the woods, it's the whole country and the whole world. Human population keeps going up, hunter population needs to keep going up if we want any say in the future of hunting. Yea it sucks bag limits will go down and seasons will shorten, but it is what it is. Let's just enjoy what we got, life is still good. I've heard more good than bad about the turkey hatch this year, so there's something to be positive about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Quote from: mrclif on July 31, 2021, 11:54:52 AM
We should write and call our state officials to quit using our funds to pay influencers to reduce us as residents opportunities to hunt the public lands we hunted all our lives. Like they said one call is not going to do it.
They've destroyed our seasons n Alabama Tennessee and Georgia. I suggest they charge fees for  videoing on public grounds. I'm thankful for these guys bringing this podcast to a larger audience for discussion.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I've hunted Alabama and Tennessee quite a bit, and they haven't destroyed anything. Maybe been a little slow to change regulations, but the hunting is still good. Several years back it was legal to kill 6 hens per county in Tennessee during the fall season. I killed a few and had fun, but I'm glad they did away with that. It's not as bad as y'all would like to think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Quote from: catman529 on July 31, 2021, 10:19:35 PM

Quote from: mrclif on July 31, 2021, 11:54:52 AM
We should write and call our state officials to quit using our funds to pay influencers to reduce us as residents opportunities to hunt the public lands we hunted all our lives. Like they said one call is not going to do it.
They've destroyed our seasons n Alabama Tennessee and Georgia. I suggest they charge fees for  videoing on public grounds. I'm thankful for these guys bringing this podcast to a larger audience for discussion.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I've hunted Alabama and Tennessee quite a bit, and they haven't destroyed anything. Maybe been a little slow to change regulations, but the hunting is still good. Several years back it was legal to kill 6 hens per county in Tennessee during the fall season. I killed a few and had fun, but I'm glad they did away with that. It's not as bad as y'all would like to think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

While I do agreement with the overall point of the thread, I'll also say that from watching your videos, it's pretty easy to see that you do it just because you love it. Anyone who's categorizing your videos as pimping out states is nuts. The thing that's tough about this subject is that 99.9% of the guys who regularly post YouTube turkey hunting videos seem like good dudes. But some states are getting hammered and there's multiple factors. Some states in particular (Miss) probably do get dinged from the video attention just simply due to the fact that it's an early start, people are ready to go, etc

 Catman thats what i would say too if someone brought  to light the negatives of "my side hustle". After what u have turned your local wma into from your youtube videos I would sit this one fella.

Quote from: catman529 on July 31, 2021, 10:16:10 PM

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

I'll take your word for it seeing what I've seen here. I thought I was selfish till I saw some of the stuff posted on forums....I understand it sucks seeing more people in your woods every year, but it's not just the woods, it's the whole country and the whole world. Human population keeps going up, hunter population needs to keep going up if we want any say in the future of hunting. Yea it sucks bag limits will go down and seasons will shorten, but it is what it is. Let's just enjoy what we got, life is still good. I've heard more good than bad about the turkey hatch this year, so there's something to be positive about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I would genuinely like to hear your opinion on one main point discussed in the podcast.  Do you think it's good practice for states to use state funds to pay YouTube videographers to promote public land turkey hunting in states with obvious turkey population declines?   Do you think this directly correlates to an increase in hunting pressure on public lands, thus playing a role in the reduced hunter opportunity with an increase in restrictions such as reduced bag limits and season lengths?   Not the sole reason, but a role? 

Quote from: El Pavo Grande on July 31, 2021, 11:44:50 PM

Quote from: catman529 on July 31, 2021, 10:16:10 PM

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

I'll take your word for it seeing what I've seen here. I thought I was selfish till I saw some of the stuff posted on forums....I understand it sucks seeing more people in your woods every year, but it's not just the woods, it's the whole country and the whole world. Human population keeps going up, hunter population needs to keep going up if we want any say in the future of hunting. Yea it sucks bag limits will go down and seasons will shorten, but it is what it is. Let's just enjoy what we got, life is still good. I've heard more good than bad about the turkey hatch this year, so there's something to be positive about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I would genuinely like to hear your opinion on one main point discussed in the podcast.  Do you think it's good practice for states to use state funds to pay YouTube videographers to promote public land turkey hunting in states with obvious turkey population declines?   Do you think this directly correlates to an increase in hunting pressure on public lands, thus playing a role in the reduced hunter opportunity with an increase in restrictions such as reduced bag limits and season lengths?   Not the sole reason, but a role?

I know this question isn't for me but I'm going to throw out my input. Shane stated in an earlier post he was offered money by the dept of tourism for a state which he declined. After listening to the podcast it is clear and I think falsely so that the hosts think wildlife management is responsible for trying to promote hunting in their states. Dept's of tourism are most likely the culprit. Do you really think the gal in the tourism dept checked with the wildlife division before she cut a check to a promote tourism in her state through turkey hunting or if she even cares about the results to said wildlife for that matter. Her goal was to increase tourism. It's her job and she was very successful in the case of Tenn. That comes back to the point of Turkey's belonging to all residents of Tenn not just the hunters. Food for thought

Quote from: Paulmyr on August 01, 2021, 12:02:03 AM

Quote from: El Pavo Grande on July 31, 2021, 11:44:50 PM

Quote from: catman529 on July 31, 2021, 10:16:10 PM

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

I'll take your word for it seeing what I've seen here. I thought I was selfish till I saw some of the stuff posted on forums....I understand it sucks seeing more people in your woods every year, but it's not just the woods, it's the whole country and the whole world. Human population keeps going up, hunter population needs to keep going up if we want any say in the future of hunting. Yea it sucks bag limits will go down and seasons will shorten, but it is what it is. Let's just enjoy what we got, life is still good. I've heard more good than bad about the turkey hatch this year, so there's something to be positive about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I would genuinely like to hear your opinion on one main point discussed in the podcast.  Do you think it's good practice for states to use state funds to pay YouTube videographers to promote public land turkey hunting in states with obvious turkey population declines?   Do you think this directly correlates to an increase in hunting pressure on public lands, thus playing a role in the reduced hunter opportunity with an increase in restrictions such as reduced bag limits and season lengths?   Not the sole reason, but a role?

I know this question isn't for me but I'm going to throw out my input. Shane stated in an earlier post he was offered money by the dept of tourism for a state which he declined. After listening to the podcast it is clear and I think falsely so that the hosts think wildlife management is responsible for trying to promote hunting in their states. Dept's of tourism are most likely the culprit. Do you really think the gal in the tourism dept checked with the wildlife division before she cut a check to a promote tourism in her state through turkey hunting or if she even cares about the results to said wildlife for that matter. Her goal was to increase tourism. It's her job and she was very successful in the case of Tenn. That comes back to the point of Turkey's belonging to all residents of Tenn not just the hunters. Food for thought

So you truly believe 100% that the TWRA had no clue?  I would think there is about a ZERO chance of that.  Just an opinion. 

Knowing government, I think there's a good chance they didn't know until after the fact. Ronald Reagan said it best. The worst words you can hear is " I'm from the government and I'm here to help!"

Quote from: Paulmyr on August 01, 2021, 12:28:11 AM
Knowing government, I think there's a good chance they didn't know until after the fact. Ronald Reagan said it best. The worst words you can hear is " I'm from the government and I'm here to help!"

Even if they did know would it be possible for them to stop it?

Quote from: catman529 on July 31, 2021, 10:16:10 PM

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

I'll take your word for it seeing what I've seen here. I thought I was selfish till I saw some of the stuff posted on forums....I understand it sucks seeing more people in your woods every year, but it's not just the woods, it's the whole country and the whole world. Human population keeps going up, hunter population needs to keep going up if we want any say in the future of hunting. Yea it sucks bag limits will go down and seasons will shorten, but it is what it is. Let's just enjoy what we got, life is still good. I've heard more good than bad about the turkey hatch this year, so there's something to be positive about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Let's go ahead dispel the silly notion that tubers are doing us some political service by bringing more hunters into the fold. Hunters make up less than 4 percent of the the U.S. population. If we increased the number ten-fold, we would still be a minority. What percentage do we need to "have a say" and what would the turkey woods look like then?

I watch every one of them but I'm not blind to what's it's done. I turkey hunted long before those videos but a huge portion of the new pressure didn't. And def didn't on public because my god, public was terrible so they never even struck out to look. These videos showed them the proof that there's birds on public so then off they went.

It's no diff then most of our friends. They all say they wanna hunt but how many strike out blind?? VERY few. However when one strikes out and does good, THEN all of a sudden many many friends wanna go. See, it's been proven therefore now they willing to go. Shortcuts, it's all about shortcuts, This is what the videos did for people.


To the questions

-If it doesn't do the harm people say in y'all's eyes, why don't y'all post the exact wmas your hunting? Or better yet to direct to certain ones, why did you STOP posting your hunt location?? See I've openly recommended places too, and I can tell you now it won't happen and hasn't for quite some time, I screwed up and learned and can admit it! Now my info stays between 2-3 close people who I trust because we feel the same about how valuable some hunting spots can now be.

- secondly if we need more hunters to have a say so, how is that going to work for us when the hunting quality/experience gets so bad we start LOSING hunters??? The ones we'd likely lose are the old school fellas who prob would have the loudest voice also!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

As far as tourism vs game and fish departments, I know for a fact I have seen one of the more popular youtube crews partner with game and fish departments in two different states. One was in deer season and one was in turkey season. I've went back recently to try to find proof and can't but it was 100% there. I'm assuming they left it up for as short of time as possible because they knew it wasn't right.

I do not like the fact that the guest on the podcast used a pseudonym.

It doesn't really matter if a state paid or not unfortunately. It was the wrong call by the state but these guys are promoting states that haven't paid just the same. And getting the same results in exploding hunter numbers, stressed resource, and pending regulation changes (loss of season for everyone). These guys will never admit they are a major problem even when given rock solid evidence.  They are either dumb or sociopaths if they believe what they are doing hasn't hurt turkeys and turkey hunting.

Quote from: gaswamp on August 01, 2021, 07:56:26 AM
I do not like the fact that the guest on the podcast used a pseudonym.

Does a fake name affect the data??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Absolutely not. Not everyone wants their name plastered everywhere for recognition and nothing is wrong with that.

I understand yalls points but I just like the fact of someone standing behind their data and opinion

I had no idea that states were paying incentives for out of state hunters to kill game.

I really hope that GA does not do that as we have way too many NR hunters anyway.

I don't have an issue with NR hunters (i know several from Florida that lease lands), but I think not only do we have too many, we need to raise the license fees tremendously and especially not GIVE away the resources.

300 bucks for 12 deer, 3 gobblers, 2 bears and unlimited hogs is not a bad deal.

Quote from: gaswamp on August 01, 2021, 08:50:43 AM
I understand yalls points but I just like the fact of someone standing behind their data and opinion

We don't know all the details of why there was an alias used.


And there's no opinion data to stand behind. It was given, if you don't believe it a few quick phone calls to departments could verify it, or a lot can be found on their websites


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I'm not a big research guy so I'll just throw this out there , it seems like the past 7 or more years we have been getting some very heavy rains from March to June in louisiana. And this has probably been mentioned  before along the gulf coast

I don't watch the YouTube crap. Just like professional sports, can't stand it. If enough people quit watching them maybe it will slow things down a little.

Quote from: Paulmyr on August 01, 2021, 12:02:03 AM

Quote from: El Pavo Grande on July 31, 2021, 11:44:50 PM

Quote from: catman529 on July 31, 2021, 10:16:10 PM

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

I'll take your word for it seeing what I've seen here. I thought I was selfish till I saw some of the stuff posted on forums....I understand it sucks seeing more people in your woods every year, but it's not just the woods, it's the whole country and the whole world. Human population keeps going up, hunter population needs to keep going up if we want any say in the future of hunting. Yea it sucks bag limits will go down and seasons will shorten, but it is what it is. Let's just enjoy what we got, life is still good. I've heard more good than bad about the turkey hatch this year, so there's something to be positive about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I would genuinely like to hear your opinion on one main point discussed in the podcast.  Do you think it's good practice for states to use state funds to pay YouTube videographers to promote public land turkey hunting in states with obvious turkey population declines?   Do you think this directly correlates to an increase in hunting pressure on public lands, thus playing a role in the reduced hunter opportunity with an increase in restrictions such as reduced bag limits and season lengths?   Not the sole reason, but a role?

I know this question isn't for me but I'm going to throw out my input. Shane stated in an earlier post he was offered money by the dept of tourism for a state which he declined. After listening to the podcast it is clear and I think falsely so that the hosts think wildlife management is responsible for trying to promote hunting in their states. Dept's of tourism are most likely the culprit. Do you really think the gal in the tourism dept checked with the wildlife division before she cut a check to a promote tourism in her state through turkey hunting or if she even cares about the results to said wildlife for that matter. Her goal was to increase tourism. It's her job and she was very successful in the case of Tenn. That comes back to the point of Turkey's belonging to all residents of Tenn not just the hunters. Food for thought

The email I received confirming that payment was made to the influencers was from TWRA in Tennessee. They stated that they use the funds to promote R3 and use funds specifically from selling the hard card hunting and fishing licenses. Please feel free to research this further for yourself.

Quote from: Sixes on August 01, 2021, 09:02:17 AM
I had no idea that states were paying incentives for out of state hunters to kill game.

I really hope that GA does not do that as we have way too many NR hunters anyway.

I don't have an issue with NR hunters (i know several from Florida that lease lands), but I think not only do we have too many, we need to raise the license fees tremendously and especially not GIVE away the resources.

300 bucks for 12 deer, 3 gobblers, 2 bears and unlimited hogs is not a bad deal.

Just based on a reference to GA in the podcast, the guest stated that one influencer had shared that the state of Georgia had paid to promote the state.  Increased license fees will be part of the equation moving forward, and I do agree that some need to raise license fees for non-residents. 

Quote from: Sixes on August 01, 2021, 09:02:17 AM
I had no idea that states were paying incentives for out of state hunters to kill game.

I really hope that GA does not do that as we have way too many NR hunters anyway.

I don't have an issue with NR hunters (i know several from Florida that lease lands), but I think not only do we have too many, we need to raise the license fees tremendously and especially not GIVE away the resources.

300 bucks for 12 deer, 3 gobblers, 2 bears and unlimited hogs is not a bad deal.

GA is in partnership with at least one popular influencer. The influencer stated this fact on Facebook.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We need to embrace paying a lot more for these privileges while making sure the money is put forth to benefit what we are hunting.

Hunting is cheap, even for Nr for what you get and people cry about little increases. All while spending small fortunes on things like dip, cigarettes etc.

The amount of lands we get to hunt is massive for what we spend. Think diff just go try to purchase enough land to effectively hunt. Wma stamps and such are so cheap it's ridiculous and don't allow for more purchases.

Look at all of what Missouri accomplished since they get the funding.

Maybe then we could purchase more public lands and better habitat! We cry, but once it's gone it'll NEVER return.

You think things are expensive until you don't even have the option to buy them. Then you truly realize how good you had it.

The money just needs to be earmarked for wildlife enhancements and lands.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Quote from: cwedding on August 01, 2021, 09:27:38 AM

Quote from: Paulmyr on August 01, 2021, 12:02:03 AM

Quote from: El Pavo Grande on July 31, 2021, 11:44:50 PM

Quote from: catman529 on July 31, 2021, 10:16:10 PM

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

I'll take your word for it seeing what I've seen here. I thought I was selfish till I saw some of the stuff posted on forums....I understand it sucks seeing more people in your woods every year, but it's not just the woods, it's the whole country and the whole world. Human population keeps going up, hunter population needs to keep going up if we want any say in the future of hunting. Yea it sucks bag limits will go down and seasons will shorten, but it is what it is. Let's just enjoy what we got, life is still good. I've heard more good than bad about the turkey hatch this year, so there's something to be positive about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I would genuinely like to hear your opinion on one main point discussed in the podcast.  Do you think it's good practice for states to use state funds to pay YouTube videographers to promote public land turkey hunting in states with obvious turkey population declines?   Do you think this directly correlates to an increase in hunting pressure on public lands, thus playing a role in the reduced hunter opportunity with an increase in restrictions such as reduced bag limits and season lengths?   Not the sole reason, but a role?

I know this question isn't for me but I'm going to throw out my input. Shane stated in an earlier post he was offered money by the dept of tourism for a state which he declined. After listening to the podcast it is clear and I think falsely so that the hosts think wildlife management is responsible for trying to promote hunting in their states. Dept's of tourism are most likely the culprit. Do you really think the gal in the tourism dept checked with the wildlife division before she cut a check to a promote tourism in her state through turkey hunting or if she even cares about the results to said wildlife for that matter. Her goal was to increase tourism. It's her job and she was very successful in the case of Tenn. That comes back to the point of Turkey's belonging to all residents of Tenn not just the hunters. Food for thought

The email I received confirming that payment was made to the influencers was from TWRA in Tennessee. They stated that they use the funds to promote R3 and use funds specifically from selling the hard card hunting and fishing licenses. Please feel free to research this further for yourself.

The info I gathered on R3 from the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies is Tenn has a state mandate that allocates funds from the sale of lifetime licenses to people under the age of 16 to an endowment to help fund the fish and wildlife agency. The money is to be used to preserve, propagate, and promote fishing and hunting in Tenn.

From what it appears Tenn state assembly in an effort to secure and preserve hunting and fishing passed a law that allocates money to the promotion of hunting and fishing in Tenn along with funding to help the state wildlife agency. That's the take I get from what I've read in this link.
https://www.fishwildlife.org/law-research-library/law-categories/r3-mandates/tennessee-r3-mandates

So is it  that the TWRA funded the promotion of hunting and fishing in Tenn or is the funding provided by the state Assembly and mandated by law. Apperently in effort to preserve hunting and fishing Tenn passed a law to fund the promotion as well.

Back to "I'm from the govt and I'm here to help."

Quote from: sasquatch1 on August 01, 2021, 10:01:14 AM
We need to embrace paying a lot more for these privileges while making sure the money is put forth to benefit what we are hunting.

Hunting is cheap, even for Nr for what you get and people cry about little increases. All while spending small fortunes on things like dip, cigarettes etc.

The amount of lands we get to hunt is massive for what we spend. Think diff just go try to purchase enough land to effectively hunt. Wma stamps and such are so cheap it's ridiculous and don't allow for more purchases.

Look at all of what Missouri accomplished since they get the funding.

Maybe then we could purchase more public lands and better habitat! We cry, but once it's gone it'll NEVER return.

You think things are expensive until you don't even have the option to buy them. Then you truly realize how good you had it.

The money just needs to be earmarked for wildlife enhancements and lands.
You are exactly right! The money we pay to have access to all these public lands in our states in cheap! In my state for only $65 i can hunt/fish everything for a year and that price includes the WMA permit. $65! That's to low. If it was doubled   and earmarked for habitat improvements just think about how much better the public lands could be overtime. $130 and u can hunt over 1.5 MILLION acres. Thats still super cheap!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

Spoken like a YouTube influencer, admittedly one of the less impactful ones. Why not refute the stats?

Quote from: Paulmyr on August 01, 2021, 11:58:22 AM

Quote from: cwedding on August 01, 2021, 09:27:38 AM

Quote from: Paulmyr on August 01, 2021, 12:02:03 AM

Quote from: El Pavo Grande on July 31, 2021, 11:44:50 PM

Quote from: catman529 on July 31, 2021, 10:16:10 PM

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

I'll take your word for it seeing what I've seen here. I thought I was selfish till I saw some of the stuff posted on forums....I understand it sucks seeing more people in your woods every year, but it's not just the woods, it's the whole country and the whole world. Human population keeps going up, hunter population needs to keep going up if we want any say in the future of hunting. Yea it sucks bag limits will go down and seasons will shorten, but it is what it is. Let's just enjoy what we got, life is still good. I've heard more good than bad about the turkey hatch this year, so there's something to be positive about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I would genuinely like to hear your opinion on one main point discussed in the podcast.  Do you think it's good practice for states to use state funds to pay YouTube videographers to promote public land turkey hunting in states with obvious turkey population declines?   Do you think this directly correlates to an increase in hunting pressure on public lands, thus playing a role in the reduced hunter opportunity with an increase in restrictions such as reduced bag limits and season lengths?   Not the sole reason, but a role?

I know this question isn't for me but I'm going to throw out my input. Shane stated in an earlier post he was offered money by the dept of tourism for a state which he declined. After listening to the podcast it is clear and I think falsely so that the hosts think wildlife management is responsible for trying to promote hunting in their states. Dept's of tourism are most likely the culprit. Do you really think the gal in the tourism dept checked with the wildlife division before she cut a check to a promote tourism in her state through turkey hunting or if she even cares about the results to said wildlife for that matter. Her goal was to increase tourism. It's her job and she was very successful in the case of Tenn. That comes back to the point of Turkey's belonging to all residents of Tenn not just the hunters. Food for thought

The email I received confirming that payment was made to the influencers was from TWRA in Tennessee. They stated that they use the funds to promote R3 and use funds specifically from selling the hard card hunting and fishing licenses. Please feel free to research this further for yourself.

The info I gathered on R3 from the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies is Tenn has a state mandate that allocates funds from the sale of lifetime licenses to people under the age of 16 to an endowment to help fund the fish and wildlife agency. The money is to be used to preserve, propagate, and promote fishing and hunting in Tenn.

From what it appears Tenn state assembly in an effort to secure and preserve hunting and fishing passed a law that allocates money to the promotion of hunting and fishing in Tenn along with funding to help the state wildlife agency. That's the take I get from what I've read in this link.
https://www.fishwildlife.org/law-research-library/law-categories/r3-mandates/tennessee-r3-mandates

So is it  that the TWRA funded the promotion of hunting and fishing in Tenn or is the funding provided by the state Assembly and mandated by law. Apperently in effort to preserve hunting and fishing Tenn passed a law to fund the promotion as well.

Back to "I'm from the govt and I'm here to help."

I agree with Reagan's comment 100%.  At the end of the day it doesn't matter as much where the money came from within the state, but more the principle that the state was actively promoting public land turkey hunting in the current environment of concerns for declining populations all across the south east.   It makes no sense other than $$$.  One key point in the podcast holds truth....if turkey numbers grow, naturally the interest in hunting them does as well and the states sell more licenses.  That's natural growth and it's sustainable.  How about these states focus on what's important right now.  I'd still bet big money that Becky from the tourism department didn't put together a package for influencers without involving the state wildlife department.  Maybe Bob with the wildlife department was out to lunch
when she called to discuss, so she just assumed it would be ok to proceed. 

Here's what I do know, anytime the question has been posed to what positives will or have resulted from promoting public land in specific states on YouTube, Facebook, or any other form of social media, there is NEVER an answer.  Usually it's crickets...... no response.  Other than claiming it's nothing more than complaining or bashing.  Why is that??  Why not provide a sound argument?  I would argue at this point we can forgo "hunter recruitment" since in the long run it has played a role in limiting hunter opportunity.....Let's see how this works out for hunter recruitment in the long run if it continues.  And it's a bit naive for so many to truly believe education and hunter recruitment is the inspiration behind it all.  If you don't think it's some form of personal gain, then keep dreaming.  With all this said, when it comes to YouTube I enjoy watching some of it, and like the way one or two of them hunt.  But, that doesn't mean I'm incapable of recognizing the negatives that come along with it.  Doesn't make me popular, but that's ok.  Some of y'all are going to ride that train right off the cliff.   

   Thêre must be over 30 Utube Turkey Hunting Groups- Known and not so well known.
    Used to be- you parked first and you would have your Honeyhole Field
  Now a Utube group will be at that Field also...
  Imagine how many early morning conflicts happen that never get filmed and lost hunts for the Locals.
  Just Saying...

Interesting numbers in  this pod cast!!!!!

Quote from: Stoeger_bird on July 31, 2021, 10:49:39 PM
Catman thats what i would say too if someone brought  to light the negatives of "my side hustle". After what u have turned your local wma into from your youtube videos I would sit this one fella.

There are several WMAs within an hours drive of my place that all see the same crazy amount of hunting pressure, and I've hunted all of em at one time or another. They're all near a very large city and have really good habitat so it's kind of a given that they will be slammed with hunters.

Now there is one area in particular that I'm assuming you are referring to where I've hunted the most. I can take some of the blame for it's popularity, even though I never named it in any videos, I wasn't careful enough to hide it from prying eyes. However there are several different reasons why it became so popular, I am one of those reasons no doubt, but there are other factors at play and I bet if I'd never hunted there, that area would still be just as popular in the near future if not already. That's just a guess, but seeing the urban growth over the past 10 years, it was gonna happen at one time or another.

I've been filming my hunts since the start because I enjoyed it, and I still enjoy it just as much now. It was never my intention to give away a good spot, and I had no idea so many people would watch my videos back when I first started. I'm not gonna quit making videos either, sorry if you don't like that, but at least know that I am doing everything I can not to give away someone's local honey hole.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

CATMAN your so full of crap. You make videos and put them on the internet because it makes you feel good to get acknowledged. The acknowledgment is what you enjoy. Same with Shane, pretty boy Dave, and THP. You ruined a spot of mine by posting actual topo maps from ONX exactly where you were. I'm sure onX money didn't influence that decision though. I'm about like the ole hand at the beginning of this thread that said we'll just start policing this stuff ourselves. I'd hate to know I was ruining public land turkey hunting for a little bit of money and a bunch of strange men's likes. If you like videoing so much then video it and keep it on your own computer.

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

Or just maybe , the un named guy on the podcast didn't do the podcast just for notoriety, and opposite of most podcasters / you tubers / face space cowboys etc, he just shared his info to the public to actually  help ? Just a thought ...

I have no idea because I don't watch any of them.   But do the "influencers" number of subscribers seem to be trending upwards or downwards?   

Quote from: PaytonWP on August 02, 2021, 01:48:04 AM
CATMAN your so full of crap. You make videos and put them on the internet because it makes you feel good to get acknowledged. The acknowledgment is what you enjoy. Same with Shane, pretty boy Dave, and THP. You ruined a spot of mine by posting actual topo maps from ONX exactly where you were. I'm sure onX money didn't influence that decision though. I'm about like the ole hand at the beginning of this thread that said we'll just start policing this stuff ourselves. I'd hate to know I was ruining public land turkey hunting for a little bit of money and a bunch of strange men's likes. If you like videoing so much then video it and keep it on your own computer.

Nice try buddy, I haven't posted a topo of an exact spot in over 2 years, and the only spot I can can think of that I did is definitely not ruined... but whatever you say


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Actually he hit the nail square on the head catman...... most of us are just too nice to say it. 

I'll take your word for it seeing what I've seen here. I thought I was selfish till I saw some of the stuff posted on forums....I understand it sucks seeing more people in your woods every year, but it's not just the woods, it's the whole country and the whole world. Human population keeps going up, hunter population needs to keep going up if we want any say in the future of hunting. Yea it sucks bag limits will go down and seasons will shorten, but it is what it is. Let's just enjoy what we got, life is still good. I've heard more good than bad about the turkey hatch this year, so there's something to be positive about.


Tragedy of the commons. This is a perfect example.. The public land certainly does not need any further exploitation. What we need hunter numbers for is to conserve more private land.

I don't watch youtube videos as a rule, but I have clicked a link or two and I usually don't like what I see. I find they just don't convey the hunt well. I have never used one to find a spot, but I have lost spots to them.

I been at this for 50 years and intrusion has always happened, in the past it just took longer. Someone hanging up pictures in a gun shop or talking at a sports show, or a magazine article. It happened, but didn't show up as fast. Many years ago an old sage gave me some sound advice. "try to find at least one new spot every year, because sooner or later your going to lose everyone you have now". So I learned to always be on the hunt for both turkeys and spots. It has gotten much harder in recent years, mostly due to leasing of land. More and more the only options are public land. States are trying to secure more land but it takes money. So the more the focus is turned to public the more spot burning becomes an issue.

Just this last spring I pulled into an out-of-state area I have hunted for 30 years without conflict and got to hunt my old favorite honey hole one morning and found out I had to move on. Not one but two camps full of hunters had moved in and taken over. One group actually camped in the woods right where the turkeys roosted in the past. They would set in there camp and wait for a bird to gobble and then take off like the light brigade in full charge to the bird. There were 4-6 young guys (18-25 yrs old) in each camp. After talking to them I found out that the average hunting experience was 2-3 yrs and some did not understand anything about hunting courtesy or ethics. They actually laughed about screwing some "old dude" out of a bird. One guy was doing nothing but running a video camera. Further conversation revealed they all were youtube fans of certain young youtube hunters. I was disappointed, but gracious and wished them good luck and moved on, abandoning my favorite spot for the last 30+ years. Thankfully I had picked up a new farm this year and had a backup plan. So whining won't help, but do your homework and find some backup spots, because sooner or later someone else will show up.  It's always happened, this is not a new thing.

One thing I would like to see video guys do, and maybe you do, is talk about some hunter ethics and common courtesy in your segments. Maybe show a case where you know a guy has position on a bird and state I'm going to honor this guy's hard work and move on.  I know I will never set up on a bird I know someone else is set up on, but I have had it happen to me countless times. To me it's like taking food off someone's plate. Just my opinion, maybe right maybe wrong.

Quote from: catman529 on July 31, 2021, 10:16:10 PM

Quote from: simpzenith on July 31, 2021, 10:24:18 AM
I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

I'll take your word for it seeing what I've seen here. I thought I was selfish till I saw some of the stuff posted on forums....I understand it sucks seeing more people in your woods every year, but it's not just the woods, it's the whole country and the whole world. Human population keeps going up, hunter population needs to keep going up if we want any say in the future of hunting. Yea it sucks bag limits will go down and seasons will shorten, but it is what it is. Let's just enjoy what we got, life is still good. I've heard more good than bad about the turkey hatch this year, so there's something to be positive about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Catman if your gonna spew this happy go lucky garbage out of your rear end how about you put down the camera and get involved in politics and legislation to help with hunters interests. Lobby for us on our behalf. Shooting gobblers out trees does absolutely nothin to help with the rise in hunters or would population or whatever that half wit response is.

Like I said earlier I don't have an issue if a man truly enjoys filming as his passion which obviously you must if you've been doing it for so long. But stop getting on here with Shane defending yalls selves with these half wit remarks. I can't think of one thing you've ever done to actually help the turkey, and as far as Shane goes his resume stops at teaching folks how to use a call.

Eggshell comes through again with a common sense post.  YouTube and social media isn't going anywhere, so you guys might as well make up your minds how it can be used to help the sport and quit with the negative post.  How about a video about moving on and not screwing up a hunt when someone beats you to your spot?  What about some videos showing trapping nest predators on public lands?  What about these guys using their influence to help fund research to show what is really going on?  There are bigger issues than crowded public lands and we don't need to ignore those issues.  Ask the folks in Louisiana and Arkansas.

And one more thing.......the guy in the podcast has a perfectly good reason for not mentioning his name.  I get how that could cause folks to wonder, but he has a good reason.

I really wish these guys would simply acknowledge that their platforms are having major negative impacts on turkey hunting as we know it, especially on public lands. Rather than to deny the numbers and changes, ackowledge the problem and make necessary changes to their "brand" to help curb the issues. I.E. not naming states, funding conservation projects, not pimping public lands..

Quote from: Shiloh on August 02, 2021, 09:10:16 AM
Eggshell comes through again with a common sense post.  YouTube and social media isn't going anywhere, so you guys might as well make up your minds how it can be used to help the sport and quit with the negative post.  How about a video about moving on and not screwing up a hunt when someone beats you to your spot?  What about some videos showing trapping nest predators on public lands?  What about these guys using their influence to help fund research to show what is really going on?  There are bigger issues than crowded public lands and we don't need to ignore those issues.  Ask the folks in Louisiana and Arkansas.

I don't disagree with all that you say, but it's shocking to me of the widely accepted attitude of "it's a sign of the times" or "it's not going anywhere, so accept it."  It's that perceived apathy for the resource that is most concerning for what is obviously a minority.  I will never step foot on 95% of the public lands effected across the country, most likely.  Yet, I voice my concern because I care about turkey populations in each state and would like to protect the future of turkey hunting opportunities for ALL in those states.  Once again, I have asked several times..... why is that a negative?  Why is debating the effects of social media always labeled complaining?   Should we just say, "oh well boys, it was a nice run"?   

I've turkey hunted public land almost exclusively for 30+ years.  It's always been crowded, in no matter what state it is.  You always have to have spots A, B, C, D, E..... it's not about complaining that my A and B spot had a truck in it and so it hurt my feelings.  Think outside the box and realize it's about ensuring that we have spots A, B, C, D, E to hunt and a viable resource.   

Once again, I've yet to see one person state that social media is THE reason for the decline or that there aren't more important aspects for restoring healthy turkey populations.  If we are making video suggestions, I'd like to see one that presents a well thought out response to address these concerns.  Not just promoting public land in specific states on YouTube, but also address posting specific information or pictures at WMA signs, etc. on FB or forums.  Provide us with a sound reason to support it, rather than  just brushing it off as envious complaints.  I would really like to see it.  I have yet to see a direct response to the positives of highlighting public land turkey hunting in specific states beyond hunter recruitment and increased revenue from license sales, while also addressing the negatives that come along with it.  Give us a reason to support what some view as counterproductive to what you state is the reason for doing it in the first place, rather than brush it off as jealous turkey hunters hating on other turkey hunters. 

I'm not convinced that Youtubers are having a significant impact. The data suggests that turkey hunter numbers have been on a downward trend for some time and I believe what we're seeing in some states is the enticement of early start dates and liberal limits. Combine that with Covid, which affected both the 2020 and 2021 turkey seasons, and you end up with what some of what we're seeing. Even if YouTube didn't exist, I feel the result would be pretty much the same. We're going to have to wait until Spring 2022 to see if things settle down in a few of the southern states, where it seems to be isolated. On a side note, I don't see a tremendous amount of pressure when I'm hunting other states, even down south. I only saw a few other trucks while hunting MS this past spring and one or two other hunters while hunting Florida. Maybe I was just lucky.  ???

Quote from: simpzenith on August 02, 2021, 12:43:39 PM
I'm not convinced that Youtubers are having a significant impact. The data suggests that turkey hunter numbers have been on a downward trend for some time and I believe what we're seeing in some states is the enticement of early start dates and liberal limits. Combine that with Covid, which affected both the 2020 and 2021 turkey seasons, and you end up with what some of what we're seeing. Even if YouTube didn't exist, I feel the result would be pretty much the same. We're going to have to wait until Spring 2022 to see if things settle down in a few of the southern states, where it seems to be isolated. On a side note, I don't see a tremendous amount of pressure when I'm hunting other states, even down south. I only saw a few other trucks while hunting MS this past spring and one or two other hunters while hunting Florida. Maybe I was just lucky.  ???

Many of these season dates and bag limits that are now being changed have been in place for decades. Did you listen to the podcast by chance? Where the numbers were shown to be rising before Covid and 2020 was thrown out of the data as an outlier? Spring 2022 won't be comparable in many of these states because the non resident or public opportunity has already been greatly reduced.

Quote from: simpzenith on August 02, 2021, 12:43:39 PM
I'm not convinced that Youtubers are having a significant impact. The data suggests that turkey hunter numbers have been on a downward trend for some time and I believe what we're seeing in some states is the enticement of early start dates and liberal limits. Combine that with Covid, which affected both the 2020 and 2021 turkey seasons, and you end up with what some of what we're seeing. Even if YouTube didn't exist, I feel the result would be pretty much the same. We're going to have to wait until Spring 2022 to see if things settle down in a few of the southern states, where it seems to be isolated. On a side note, I don't see a tremendous amount of pressure when I'm hunting other states, even down south. I only saw a few other trucks while hunting MS this past spring and one or two other hunters while hunting Florida. Maybe I was just lucky.  ???

An email address is given at the end of the podcast. Contact us and we will establish a phone call interview for the show to discuss this topic from your point of view. We look forward to hearing from you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: GobblinNC on August 02, 2021, 12:51:00 PM
Many of these season dates and bag limits that are now being changed have been in place for decades. Did you listen to the podcast by chance? Where the numbers were shown to be rising before Covid and 2020 was thrown out of the data as an outlier? Spring 2022 won't be comparable in many of these states because the non resident or public opportunity has already been greatly reduced.

Yes, I listened to the entire podcast. If 2020 is thrown out as an outlier, why wasn't 2021 thrown out as well? We all know the number rose in direct response to stay-at-home orders, or the Covid fear from some in 2020. Many hunters that canceled hunts in 2020, instead hunted in 2021, inflating the number of turkey licenses purchased.

Quote from: simpzenith on August 02, 2021, 01:03:59 PM

Quote from: GobblinNC on August 02, 2021, 12:51:00 PM
Many of these season dates and bag limits that are now being changed have been in place for decades. Did you listen to the podcast by chance? Where the numbers were shown to be rising before Covid and 2020 was thrown out of the data as an outlier? Spring 2022 won't be comparable in many of these states because the non resident or public opportunity has already been greatly reduced.

Yes, I listened to the entire podcast. If 2020 is thrown out as an outlier, why wasn't 2021 thrown out as well? We all know the number rose in direct response to stay-at-home orders, or the Covid fear from some in 2020. Many hunters that canceled hunts in 2020, instead hunted in 2021, inflating the number of turkey licenses purchased.

And the explanation for the reason that the states that you, THP, Pinhoti, and Catman literally all have hunted during the same year is exponentially higher than other states? I.E. Wisconsin, Tennessee, and Mississippi

Quote from: GobblinNC on August 02, 2021, 01:14:01 PM
And the explanation for the reason that the states that you, THP, Pinhoti, and Catman literally all have hunted during the same year is exponentially higher than other states? I.E. Wisconsin, Tennessee, and Mississippi

Wisconsin sold 4000 less turkey permits in 2021 than in 2020.

Quote from: simpzenith on August 02, 2021, 12:43:39 PM
I'm not convinced that Youtubers are having a significant impact. The data suggests that turkey hunter numbers have been on a downward trend for some time and I believe what we're seeing in some states is the enticement of early start dates and liberal limits. Combine that with Covid, which affected both the 2020 and 2021 turkey seasons, and you end up with what some of what we're seeing. Even if YouTube didn't exist, I feel the result would be pretty much the same. We're going to have to wait until Spring 2022 to see if things settle down in a few of the southern states, where it seems to be isolated. On a side note, I don't see a tremendous amount of pressure when I'm hunting other states, even down south. I only saw a few other trucks while hunting MS this past spring and one or two other hunters while hunting Florida. Maybe I was just lucky.  ???

So uh... how do you explain the Wisconsin app data away? A youtuber with a significantly higher following than you came onto your home turf and annihilated like 10 birds posted to YouTube. Meanwhile you were making memes about it. And the place has been an all out cluster since. I hunted WI in 2020 and at every public gate saw multiple out of state plates, many with Pinhoti or THP stickers on trucks. Furthermore, I still don't understand this covid excuse. Sure, in 2020 there were a lot more resident local hunters in woods due to lockdowns. Or maybe even traveled to the next state over after filling their baglimits. But you won't be able to convince me covid just so happened to make a bunch of bama boys head up to wisconsin... a state that has been popularized on YT in previous years.

Quote from: simpzenith on August 02, 2021, 01:59:19 PM

Quote from: GobblinNC on August 02, 2021, 01:14:01 PM
And the explanation for the reason that the states that you, THP, Pinhoti, and Catman literally all have hunted during the same year is exponentially higher than other states? I.E. Wisconsin, Tennessee, and Mississippi

Wisconsin sold 4000 less turkey permits in 2021 than in 2020.

That doesn't surprise me at all. A lot less resident hunters in the woods in 2021

Quote from: TurkeyReaper69 on August 02, 2021, 02:00:23 PM

Quote from: simpzenith on August 02, 2021, 12:43:39 PM
I'm not convinced that Youtubers are having a significant impact. The data suggests that turkey hunter numbers have been on a downward trend for some time and I believe what we're seeing in some states is the enticement of early start dates and liberal limits. Combine that with Covid, which affected both the 2020 and 2021 turkey seasons, and you end up with what some of what we're seeing. Even if YouTube didn't exist, I feel the result would be pretty much the same. We're going to have to wait until Spring 2022 to see if things settle down in a few of the southern states, where it seems to be isolated. On a side note, I don't see a tremendous amount of pressure when I'm hunting other states, even down south. I only saw a few other trucks while hunting MS this past spring and one or two other hunters while hunting Florida. Maybe I was just lucky.  ???

So uh... how do you explain the Wisconsin app data away? A youtuber with a significantly higher following than you came onto your home turf and annihilated like 10 birds posted to YouTube. Meanwhile you were making memes about it. And the place has been an all out cluster since. I hunted WI in 2020 and at every public gate saw multiple out of state plates, many with Pinhoti or THP stickers on trucks. Furthermore, I still don't understand this covid excuse. Sure, in 2020 there were a lot more resident local hunters in woods due to lockdowns. Or maybe even traveled to the next state over after filling their baglimits. But you won't be able to convince me covid just so happened to make a bunch of bama boys head up to wisconsin... a state that has been popularized on YT in previous years.

The app data is easy to explain. People wanted to get a tag for the first week of the season so more applied and I'm willing to bet that the increase in applicants was almost entirely resident hunters. I've been hunting Wisconsin for more than a decade and never had any issues finding an empty place to hunt. I'm guessing you probably hunted an area that gets pressure every year and not isolated to 2020.

Quote from: simpzenith on August 02, 2021, 12:43:39 PM
I'm not convinced that Youtubers are having a significant impact. The data suggests that turkey hunter numbers have been on a downward trend for some time and I believe what we're seeing in some states is the enticement of early start dates and liberal limits. Combine that with Covid, which affected both the 2020 and 2021 turkey seasons, and you end up with what some of what we're seeing. Even if YouTube didn't exist, I feel the result would be pretty much the same. We're going to have to wait until Spring 2022 to see if things settle down in a few of the southern states, where it seems to be isolated. On a side note, I don't see a tremendous amount of pressure when I'm hunting other states, even down south. I only saw a few other trucks while hunting MS this past spring and one or two other hunters while hunting Florida. Maybe I was just lucky.  ???

Let's tally some earlier numbers shared.  To be fair some are subscribers to multiple channels and some probably click to view a particular video more than once.  Also, quite a few subscribers of one could be driven by deer hunting, just to be clear.   But of the main 4 that come to mind, yourself included, there are 506,400 total subscribers per the information shared on YouTube.  Of the hundreds of videos promoting specific states, often specific regions within a state, and sometimes negligent to give away specific locales, the total views for only 4 state specific videos (1 per channel) is 831,000.  That's only an example of 1 video per each YouTube channel.  You don't think it has a significant impact on public land turkey hunting across the country?

 :help:

Quote from: simpzenith on August 02, 2021, 12:43:39 PM
I'm not convinced that Youtubers are having a significant impact. The data suggests that turkey hunter numbers have been on a downward trend for some time and I believe what we're seeing in some states is the enticement of early start dates and liberal limits. Combine that with Covid, which affected both the 2020 and 2021 turkey seasons, and you end up with what some of what we're seeing. Even if YouTube didn't exist, I feel the result would be pretty much the same. We're going to have to wait until Spring 2022 to see if things settle down in a few of the southern states, where it seems to be isolated. On a side note, I don't see a tremendous amount of pressure when I'm hunting other states, even down south. I only saw a few other trucks while hunting MS this past spring and one or two other hunters while hunting Florida. Maybe I was just lucky.  ???

I assure you there was a lot more traffic in that MS area, it's not hard for people to find out where exactly you were when you name landowners

Ive been hunting that area for 12 years, in the last 3 the pressure jumped alot

Use to move around all day easily, now your first spot better have something to hunt because after that a lot of gates already have someone there

I made the mistakes before about telling people about a TN spot. I went back this year and will NEVER return there again. My god it was unreal, use to hunt the whole place and never see a sole. I screwed up but learned big time

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I don't have anything against YouTubers such as Catman and Shane,
but we have to acknowledge the fact that these videos are only one
of a myriad of things going against turkeys.

I'm assuming that the member here (cwedding), is Cameron Weddington,
one of the hosts of the podcast.

I would encourage Catman and Shane to take him up on his offer to
be on the podcast to give your viewpoints and perspective on things.
People on this site tend to have strong opinions on the effects of
social media, videos, etc., and it would be good to hear what you guys
think about these things from your side of the fence.

Maybe you guys could do the podcast together with Cameron and Andy.
It could be a 2 hour podcast. Anyway, I hope y'all take him up on his
offer.
                                         Jim

Quote from: Jimspur on August 02, 2021, 02:56:25 PM
I don't have anything against YouTubers such as Catman and Shane,
but we have to acknowledge the fact that these videos are only one
of a myriad of things going against turkeys.

I'm assuming that the member here (cwedding), is Cameron Weddington,
one of the hosts of the podcast.

I would encourage Catman and Shane to take him up on his offer to
be on the podcast to give your viewpoints and perspective on things.
People on this site tend to have strong opinions on the effects of
social media, videos, etc., and it would be good to hear what you guys
think about these things from your side of the fence.

Maybe you guys could do the podcast together with Cameron and Andy.
It could be a 2 hour podcast. Anyway, I hope y'all take him up on his
offer.
                                         Jim

I wouldn't mind doing a podcast some time. A civil discussion in person (or on the phone) will go a lot further than some of the crazy stuff being said on the forums. Just reading through the last few posts in this thread, I see a whole lot of assumptions and some things that are downright untrue. Like Shane, I didn't see too many other hunters this year, just a few here and there. Definitely not as bad as it was last year with all the people out of work due to Covid. I hunted only three states this year, starting with the Alabama early opener seeing the most hunters, but I still had plenty of woods to myself even with that many people out, and as always tried to stay away from other hunters. The hunting ain't bad at all if you put in a lil effort.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Quote from: catman529 on August 02, 2021, 03:33:47 PM

Quote from: Jimspur on August 02, 2021, 02:56:25 PM
I don't have anything against YouTubers such as Catman and Shane,
but we have to acknowledge the fact that these videos are only one
of a myriad of things going against turkeys.

I'm assuming that the member here (cwedding), is Cameron Weddington,
one of the hosts of the podcast.

I would encourage Catman and Shane to take him up on his offer to
be on the podcast to give your viewpoints and perspective on things.
People on this site tend to have strong opinions on the effects of
social media, videos, etc., and it would be good to hear what you guys
think about these things from your side of the fence.

Maybe you guys could do the podcast together with Cameron and Andy.
It could be a 2 hour podcast. Anyway, I hope y'all take him up on his
offer.
                                         Jim

I wouldn't mind doing a podcast some time. A civil discussion in person (or on the phone) will go a lot further than some of the crazy stuff being said on the forums. Just reading through the last few posts in this thread, I see a whole lot of assumptions and some things that are downright untrue. Like Shane, I didn't see too many other hunters this year, just a few here and there. Definitely not as bad as it was last year with all the people out of work due to Covid. I hunted only three states this year, starting with the Alabama early opener seeing the most hunters, but I still had plenty of woods to myself even with that many people out, and as always tried to stay away from other hunters. The hunting ain't bad at all if you put in a lil effort.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Most of the people on this forum aren't YouTubers, that's why it would be good to hear from you guys. There's always benefit in seeing the other
side. I also think sometimes it's harder to get your point across when
you're typing it out and posting it. Sometimes things get lost in the
translation.

On a funny side note - I was in Alabama in 2020 and saw your old truck
twice, I also saw Zach at his vehicle one day. Small world.

Anyway, hope y'all can do the podcast because you're sure to get a
civil discussion from Cameron and Andy.

I am going to stick with what I have said previous, " I have no problem with the you tubers as long as they stay respectful of others". They don't need to name specific names of places they hunt. In my book, a state is ok.

So what if a state pays them? I think the problem with this is plain and simple jealousy. They are going to hunt somewhere. Where do you think they would hunt if someone paid them incentives to hunt? I will do the same, if enticed. Even Arkansas, after all the Arkansas bashing done here, If their paying, I am there.

This tactic by states has been going on forever, it's not even close to new. I am willing to bet it's been going on as long as I am old, and I am not wet behind the ears as so many of our new hunters in force.

I would spend time and money barking up a different tree than this one. This tree is slick as far as I am concerned! This tree isn't going to gain anything but more regulations that people are going to cry about later.

When you succeed with your stopping of videos on public, do you think regulations will stop there? Arizona! And don't think those regs can't be pushed into private ground as well. The state owns the ground, you are only a care taker of it. If you doubt this, stop paying your taxes.

Donate your time and effort towards a solution and this isn't it.

The population on Earth grows daily, daily we try to Recruit more hunters. It's not rocket science. More hunter in the woods, lots of them just spooking turkeys, not killing them. Turkeys are being killed, just as they always have. By the same people that have always killed them. The turkey population is going down in places, just like upland birds do. When we figure this out, we will be overrun with turkeys and upland birds. If the economy will allow it.

Not trying to offend, and I am sorry if I offend you. But, I believe the you tubers are not the solution, or the problem. We are as a society evolving, this is the aftermath. Check yourself. How many here on this thread still hunt the same and use the same equipment and accessories as the hunters of 50 years ago? We are evolving. There will be bumps in the road.

So who and how much money is being made from the link in the first post?

Spin it anyway you'd like......but the numbers don't lie. You can argue with them all day but you'll be wrong. YouTube pimping of public land has had DIRECT negatives on wild turkeys and wild turkey hunters as regulations/restrictions are made to combat the influx of new/traveling turkey hunters.   This is factual information and is undeniable. 

Quote from: arkrem870 on August 02, 2021, 08:42:27 PM
Spin it anyway you'd like......but the numbers don't lie. You can argue with them all day but you'll be wrong. YouTube pimping of public land has had DIRECT negatives on wild turkeys and wild turkey hunters as regulations/restrictions are made to combat the influx of new/traveling turkey hunters.   This is factual information and is undeniable.

So who and how much money is being made from the link in your first post?

Quote from: Crghss on August 02, 2021, 08:44:54 PM

Quote from: arkrem870 on August 02, 2021, 08:42:27 PM
Spin it anyway you'd like......but the numbers don't lie. You can argue with them all day but you'll be wrong. YouTube pimping of public land has had DIRECT negatives on wild turkeys and wild turkey hunters as regulations/restrictions are made to combat the influx of new/traveling turkey hunters.   This is factual information and is undeniable.

So who and how much money is being made from the link in your first post?

We did not reveal any identification on the show as to the influencers being paid. I have personally confirmed payment was made in the state of TN and I know to whom. You are welcome to research this topic further, but the goal of the show is not to slander or put down anyone. It is to bring awareness to a situation in which states are taking away opportunities while paying to promote the very thing they are taking away. Hopefully the influencers will stop naming states and taking payment from states and hopefully the states will quit offering payment. It is a very bad thing for already declining turkey populations to experience this mass increase in pressure and harvest.

To confirm here is a couple quotes from the email I received from TWRA when I asked them about a specific influencer:

"Those influencer partnerships are something that we do to drive R3!"

"The money to fund those influencers comes from the selling of the hard cards"

"I work with them to pursue the right influencers and get content created and posted."

This comes straight from TWRA.

Quote from: Crghss on August 02, 2021, 08:44:54 PM

Quote from: arkrem870 on August 02, 2021, 08:42:27 PM
Spin it anyway you'd like......but the numbers don't lie. You can argue with them all day but you'll be wrong. YouTube pimping of public land has had DIRECT negatives on wild turkeys and wild turkey hunters as regulations/restrictions are made to combat the influx of new/traveling turkey hunters.   This is factual information and is undeniable.

So who and how much money is being made from the link in your first post?

It was posted to further support what many of us have been concerned about for several years. As a avid turkey hunter that has traveled across the US extensively for 20 years and hunted turkeys for 30+ We started to see issues arise connected to these YouTube programs. What we suspected has come to fruition and is further threatening the resource/hunter opportunity through regulation ......among other things. Many of us have wildlife / state dnr/ etc backgrounds myself included.  We can stick our head in the sand and pretend the statistics provided do not prove anything but your lying to yourself.   I'm in no way shape form connected to anyone on this podcast ; any podcast, YouTube, social media bull s. I'm simply a avid turkey hunters that is very much concerned

I think most of the Youtube guys are nice guys but come on!  Why are y'all the only ones denying the data?

Sure there are pockets of pristine wildness but a good majority of the bandwagon hunters are obviously gonna go to the easiest spots. There is no way you can honestly say Pinhoti, THP, etc have not increased the hunting pressure on public lands over the past few years.

I would love to hear Shane, Catman or Dave Owens do an interview with Andy and Cameron on this topic!

It was very interesting to hear Chubbs take on social media and hunting in the previous podcast. We all gotta take a step back every now and then and analyze our own actions and how it may negatively affect the wild turkey.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

QuoteHow many here on this thread still hunt the same and use the same equipment and accessories as the hunters of 50 years ago? We are evolving.

That would be me. For the most part I still use the same gear and style of hunting. Still using a regular old shotgun with bead sights and Remington nitro 3" magnums (I know they aren't old lead, but standard loads ). I will confess I only switched to a 12 ga. 47 years ago, I started with a 20 ga. pump. I carry one slate call and 2-3 mouth calls, no blinds or dekes. Yes, i was using mouth calls 49 years ago....I was one of the very early users. Got mine from Lew McClure, anyone know that name?

Ok I do wear real tree camo. I started out with brown pants and a green flannel shirt with an old army surplus field coat, which I still wear the same 50 year old coat on many hunts.

I have seen the evolution and I am not buying it's a higher life form

[quote author=WV Flopper link=topic=105262.msg1043193#msg1043193
Not trying to offend, and I am sorry if I offend you. But, I believe the you tubers are not the solution, or the problem. We are as a society evolving, this is the aftermath. Check yourself. How many here on this thread still hunt the same and use the same equipment and accessories as the hunters of 50 years ago? We are evolving. There will be bumps in the road.
[/quote]

I don't know if this was directed at me or not, but since I was the
previous poster, I'll assume it was. I'm not offended in the least, because
I agree with you. I don't know where you got the idea that I thought the
YouTubers were the solution or the problem. Maybe you need to go back
and read what I said in the first sentence of my post on the bottom of
page 6.

I only suggested them to do a podcast because all I ever hear on this
site is one side of the coin. Hope this doesn't offend anyone.

I don't believe YT is a problem. The only thing they could be blamed for is fanning popularity. Spring season is popular because you can hear em gobble. Not much to hunt in spring so let's go. For years I looked at state population numbers and thought, I should go here or there. It's not rocket science. Being an archery guy,states that had archery only seasons were high on the list. One state has a survey and always asks if the limit should be raised to four birds. I always answer no. Habit is the key. I see land turned into neighborhoods all the time. My buddy stopped hunting public in the early 90's in MO, he gained some good private and eventually saw a population decline their  too. IL and Iowa have draw hunts. And both states hold there own. Neither is what I would call a turkey state. The public I hunt in IL gets 1/3 of its population taken in spring,year after year. The habit is well managed along with pressure but you know mushroom hunters are constantly blowing hens off nests. Sounds like envy for some of you. Since IL allows crossguns in archery season, I've seen a huge increase of pressure on public ground in fall but only a few birds are killed by archery guys in fall. 5-10 birds on the ground I hunt,year after year and I count for two,year after year. NWTF has had a,Save the habitat save the hunt, campaign for years,maybe the do know something?


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Quote from: fallhnt on August 02, 2021, 10:09:07 PM
I don't believe YT is a problem. The only thing they could be blamed for is fanning popularity. Spring season is popular because you can hear em gobble. Not much to hunt in spring so let's go. For years I looked at state population numbers and thought, I should go here or there. It's not rocket science. Being an archery guy,states that had archery only seasons were high on the list. One state has a survey and always asks if the limit should be raised to four birds. I always answer no. Habit is the key. I see land turned into neighborhoods all the time. My buddy stopped hunting public in the early 90's in MO, he gained some good private and eventually saw a population decline their  too. IL and Iowa have draw hunts. And both states hold there own. Neither is what I would call a turkey state. The public I hunt in IL gets 1/3 of its population taken in spring,year after year. The habit is well managed along with pressure but you know mushroom hunters are constantly blowing hens off nests. Sounds like envy for some of you. Since IL allows crossguns in archery season, I've seen a huge increase of pressure on public ground in fall but only a few birds are killed by archery guys in fall. 5-10 birds on the ground I hunt,year after year and I count for two,year after year. NWTF has had a,Save the habitat save the hunt, campaign for years,maybe the do know something?


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

The info always was out there IF, and a huge IF, you were a hardcore deep rooted hunter.

That's not what these bandwagon guys are!! They ONLY took interest after the easiness was shown to them.

That is the issue here and the difference.

Those type of guys didn't want it bad enough to ever do deep research and strike out on a blind trek. A trek that easily ends in nothing more than learning where not to go!!!

It's easy to put it in an example. I took interest in trying to elk hunt 6 years ago. Nobody wanted to go. I went solo and struck out archery hunting. I didn't care, if anything I then wanted it MORE. Went the following year, still no takers. Went solo again and killed a stud bull.

As soon as word around my home town got out I all of a sudden had a lot of friends saying "I'd like to go with you". Where were they on this first two trips??? The ones where I was traveling blind??? NOWHERE.

Those videos are doing that for people ten fold!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Quote from: sasquatch1 on August 02, 2021, 11:17:32 PM

Quote from: fallhnt on August 02, 2021, 10:09:07 PM
I don't believe YT is a problem. The only thing they could be blamed for is fanning popularity. Spring season is popular because you can hear em gobble. Not much to hunt in spring so let's go. For years I looked at state population numbers and thought, I should go here or there. It's not rocket science. Being an archery guy,states that had archery only seasons were high on the list. One state has a survey and always asks if the limit should be raised to four birds. I always answer no. Habit is the key. I see land turned into neighborhoods all the time. My buddy stopped hunting public in the early 90's in MO, he gained some good private and eventually saw a population decline their  too. IL and Iowa have draw hunts. And both states hold there own. Neither is what I would call a turkey state. The public I hunt in IL gets 1/3 of its population taken in spring,year after year. The habit is well managed along with pressure but you know mushroom hunters are constantly blowing hens off nests. Sounds like envy for some of you. Since IL allows crossguns in archery season, I've seen a huge increase of pressure on public ground in fall but only a few birds are killed by archery guys in fall. 5-10 birds on the ground I hunt,year after year and I count for two,year after year. NWTF has had a,Save the habitat save the hunt, campaign for years,maybe the do know something?


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

The info always was out there IF, and a huge IF, you were a hardcore deep rooted hunter.

That's not what these bandwagon guys are!! They ONLY took interest after the easiness was shown to them.

That is the issue here and the difference.

Those type of guys didn't want it bad enough to ever do deep research and strike out on a blind trek. A trek that easily ends in nothing more than learning where not to go!!!

It's easy to put it in an example. I took interest in trying to elk hunt 6 years ago. Nobody wanted to go. I went solo and struck out archery hunting. I didn't care, if anything I then wanted it MORE. Went the following year, still no takers. Went solo again and killed a stud bull.

As soon as word around my home town got out I all of a sudden had a lot of friends saying "I'd like to go with you". Where were they on this first two trips??? The ones where I was traveling blind??? NOWHERE.

Those videos are doing that for people ten fold!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Exactly!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The info always was out there IF, and a huge IF, you were a hardcore deep rooted hunter.

That's not what these bandwagon guys are!! They ONLY took interest after the easiness was shown to them.

That is the issue here and the difference.

Those type of guys didn't want it bad enough to ever do deep research and strike out on a blind trek. A trek that easily ends in nothing more than learning where not to go!!!

It's easy to put it in an example. I took interest in trying to elk hunt 6 years ago. Nobody wanted to go. I went solo and struck out archery hunting. I didn't care, if anything I then wanted it MORE. Went the following year, still no takers. Went solo again and killed a stud bull.

As soon as word around my home town got out I all of a sudden had a lot of friends saying "I'd like to go with you". Where were they on this first two trips??? The ones where I was traveling blind??? NOWHERE.

Those videos are doing that for people ten fold!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
[/quote]


You're spot on with your assessment, but there's one more thing I'd like
to add to your comments. The other thing that made it so much easier
for all these folks to go are these mapping apps.

It used to be people stayed close to roads or certain terrain features for
fear of getting lost. I learned to use topo map and compass 40 years ago.
Most times it was hard to find where you wanted to park, let alone where
you wanted to hunt. Now you just "drop a pin" and you're phone will
guide you to your parking spot, and then guide you to where you want
to be at first light. No need to learn how to use a map and compass.

Everybody's an instant Daniel Boone without the effort of actually
driving to a place that has the topo maps, poring over those maps,
and then figuring out which ones to buy.

I've been using GAIA GPS for 2 years now and it makes
everything so much easier for a traveling turkey hunter.
IMO this has as much to do with increased numbers of traveling hunters
as anything else.

It's the way of the world - technology makes everything easier and
it's not going away.

I don't totally agree with that Jimspur.  Before onX I'd mark my truck with the gps and take off without a care of where I'd end up because I knew I could get back to the truck and the boundaries are pretty obvious.  The apps have made it easier for sure, but not necessarily a game changer in my opinion.  One thing they have done is highlight spots that are not so obvious. 

Squatch.........I think your post is pretty much on point.  One thing to add.  Some of the guys who are inspired by the YouTube guys are striking out and coming home empty handed.  I have a family member who will never step foot in Florida to turkey hunt again.  What's funny is that he was in camp and hunting some with THP.  I have another buddy that struck out to Maine in late season and got a O.   He will likely never do that again.  Most don't have the drive. 

The constant and majority of statements are that us raising concerns are just envious and jealous.  I can't speak for everyone, but that's not even remotely accurate.  Or that it's just the new reality and to accept it.   In my opinion, both are weak responses void of substance.  It's laughable and naive to believe YouTube and social media have no negative effects on public land turkey hunting and if not kept in check will continue to play a major role in reducing hunter opportunity.....all in the name of hunter recruitment.  It's entertainment....so is Hollywood.  It's educational for some, and that's not a bad thing the majority of the time.  Technology as a whole will continue to push the limits and beyond if we don't set boundaries.  Someone will be sitting on the couch in nothing but their underwear, eating Cheetohs and shooting turkeys with drones if we let them.

I'd bet a lot more on even this forum agree, but don't dare speak out.   Might ruffle some feathers or step on toes.  When there is a "BUT" there might be a need for change.  I've seen multiple comments that say "There are negatives, BUT....."  Once again, that's weak.  If there are negatives then make corrections. I don't expect much to change, when the influencers first hand scoff at the concerns and don't personally believe there are any negatives.  Right... and the majority buy it hook line and sinker because we want to be entertained.  I like watching some of the videos and I like some of the personalities based on what I see on the videos.  It's not personal.  I don't dislike any of them.  That doesn't mean I can't be critical.  The cat is out of the bag at this point.  As an invested turkey hunter that places turkeys as a priority, I'd just implore the YouTube personalities and Joey on FB to be responsible.  If any aspect of this is selfish, it's in sharing specific information for thousands (millions) to access.  Does personal gain, whether that be monetary, notoriety, or simple "likes" on social media outweigh the responsibility to the resource and fellow hunters?  If you haven't made adjustments, then consider changing what and how you present.  But, if we don't think that 461,000 views of a state specific public land video doesn't have an effect, or a channel with 378,000 subscribers presenting a video that includes a National Forest gated road sign and videos of local landmarks doesn't have effects, then you need to take off the blindfold.  Or in a few cases, the fan club t-shirt.

I'm still anxiously awaiting the answer to a frequently posed question.  What are the positives for turkey populations and the future of turkey hunting in sharing specific public land information on social media for unlimited access, whether it be presented via YouTube channels or individuals on FB or forums? Anyone?   If anyone cares to answer, I'd first consider beyond what appears to be positive on the surface might be detrimental in the long run. 

I can't see any major plus in discussing specifics and I don't think it is going to make a huge difference in views to leave that stuff out. 

One thing to remember.  Lots of people on these forums bashed the older tv personalities for their ways and said that if anyone ever started hunting public land and suffering like the common man we'd buy it.  Well.......some did just that and have seen some success and now it's an issue.  Unintended consequences???

I think for change, we all need to read the Old Timers Post ...

When I read research, I look to see who funded it, who stands to make money on it and the affiliations of those that published it.  When someone tells me that they are not having negative effects and they are making money on their behavior, they get zero credence in my mind.  But I also feel the same about folks that just want empty public land with no other hunters and tons of gullible turkeys.  When someone makes a statement, look at what is driving them to make the statement-how does that person benefit from their stance.  I don't think it is even hard to read this thread and figure out who's opinions are biased and those who are not.  Not sure how any of that will change things. 

I personally like the thought of no publication of videos filmed on public land - there can be no monetary gain from public land hunts.  None.  But that leaves off the FB heroes, which in my opinion are 10 times worse.  I got ridiculed on a duck hunting website because I blacked out the background of a picture of a nice mess of ducks we killed - but 2 guys that had seen me there thanked me profusely in private.  We are living in an ADD world people.  microwaveable success!  All about me.  Not likely to change.  Just make a difference with those you mentor.  Tell him/her why all that other stuff is nonsense and that pictures on Al Gore's interwebs are FOREVER!   

The info always was out there IF, and a huge IF, you were a hardcore deep rooted hunter.

That's not what these bandwagon guys are!! They ONLY took interest after the easiness was shown to them.

That is the issue here and the difference.

Those type of guys didn't want it bad enough to ever do deep research and strike out on a blind trek. A trek that easily ends in nothing more than learning where not to go!!!

It's easy to put it in an example. I took interest in trying to elk hunt 6 years ago. Nobody wanted to go. I went solo and struck out archery hunting. I didn't care, if anything I then wanted it MORE. Went the following year, still no takers. Went solo again and killed a stud bull.

As soon as word around my home town got out I all of a sudden had a lot of friends saying "I'd like to go with you". Where were they on this first two trips??? The ones where I was traveling blind??? NOWHERE.

Those videos are doing that for people ten fold!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
[/quote]

This is exactly the problem. I had to learn to do it on my own. I didn't have anyone to show me how to travel and hunt. Me and a buddy loaded  up and went on our first trip in 2004 when we were mid 20's. We did find and kill birds and we are still adapting and changing how we travel still today. Nowadays though every 18 yr old knows  they can jump in the truck and go to X-WMA in X-state and find birds. It is infinitely easier for them and they are doing it by the truck load. I can say I went to an area where one of the YouTube guys is from. That's not the reason I went there, I was going to be in that area anyway, but I had a pretty good idea there would be birds in the area. I don't think he liked it though when I sent him a couple picks by HIS WMA sign.

Quote from: BBR12 on August 04, 2021, 02:20:38 PM
The info always was out there IF, and a huge IF, you were a hardcore deep rooted hunter.

That's not what these bandwagon guys are!! They ONLY took interest after the easiness was shown to them.

That is the issue here and the difference.

Those type of guys didn't want it bad enough to ever do deep research and strike out on a blind trek. A trek that easily ends in nothing more than learning where not to go!!!

It's easy to put it in an example. I took interest in trying to elk hunt 6 years ago. Nobody wanted to go. I went solo and struck out archery hunting. I didn't care, if anything I then wanted it MORE. Went the following year, still no takers. Went solo again and killed a stud bull.

As soon as word around my home town got out I all of a sudden had a lot of friends saying "I'd like to go with you". Where were they on this first two trips??? The ones where I was traveling blind??? NOWHERE.

Those videos are doing that for people ten fold!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

This is exactly the problem. I had to learn to do it on my own. I didn't have anyone to show me how to travel and hunt. Me and a buddy loaded  up and went on our first trip in 2004 when we were mid 20's. We did find and kill birds and we are still adapting and changing how we travel still today. Nowadays though every 18 yr old knows  they can jump in the truck and go to X-WMA in X-state and find birds. It is infinitely easier for them and they are doing it by the truck load. I can say I went to an area where one of the YouTube guys is from. That's not the reason I went there, I was going to be in that area anyway, but I had a pretty good idea there would be birds in the area. I don't think he liked it though when I sent him a couple picks by HIS WMA sign.
[/quote]


PM me that location. Ill go do it also next season. Maybe that's what we have to start doing now. Hunting down their local honey holes and exploiting them. lol

Good idea guys, do a group hunt within 50 miles of their home addresses or their favorite WMA. Serve them some of their own stale cake. At least drive by and post some gate and sign pictures even if you don't hunt. You can do this on vacation in the summer even. Seems fair to me.  :funnyturkey:

Outdoor writers have done far more to screw up good hunting than youtube. All the "5 best places to hunt xyz"  articles in print and online.I remember seeing a article about best little known public duck hunting spots to hunt in my state a few years back. Even had the road and parking area and how to access it.Yup, completely ruined now.Oh well, i just moved on and found new places. It's public land, open to everyone. It is only going to get worse, with or without youtube. We have an ever increasing population, more land loss to development, and deep pocket guys are leasing up land that the owners used to let you hunt for free. We are headed to the pay to play system here. It is inevitable. maybe not in our lifetimes, but it will be in our childrens and grandchildrens. Don't want to be a pessimist, but the best hunting we enjoyed are past and isn't coming back. And youtuber's posting hunts are not the cause.

Quote from: the Ward on August 05, 2021, 09:55:59 AM
Outdoor writers have done far more to screw up good hunting than youtube. All the "5 best places to hunt xyz"  articles in print and online.I remember seeing a article about best little known public duck hunting spots to hunt in my state a few years back. Even had the road and parking area and how to access it.Yup, completely ruined now.Oh well, i just moved on and found new places. It's public land, open to everyone. It is only going to get worse, with or without youtube. We have an ever increasing population, more land loss to development, and deep pocket guys are leasing up land that the owners used to let you hunt for free. We are headed to the pay to play system here. It is inevitable. maybe not in our lifetimes, but it will be in our childrens and grandchildrens. Don't want to be a pessimist, but the best hunting we enjoyed are past and isn't coming back. And youtuber's posting hunts are not the cause.

No one is stating YouTube is the only one to blame, but no denying they have elevated the issue greatly.  Joey on FB or forums sharing specific information or pictures at WMA signs is to blame as well.  So are writers and online bloggers that do the same.  It boils down to some form of personal gain....money, notoriety, affirmation, etc.  We can pass on the tradition for all to enjoy without detailing specific information or over promoting public land, which in the long run is more of a negative than a positive, regardless of the shared intention.  We can continue to throw our hands in the air and say "oh well, times have changed" or we can educate within our turkey hunting community.  Share stories, share videos, share pictures, introduce new people to turkey hunting.... No one is saying otherwise.  Just be responsible with the content.  Be a good steward of the resource.  Simple.

YouTube / social media content guys are directly responsible for this current trend.  Outdoors writers sharing information has been around for a 100 years and though it still isn't a good practice it's nothing in comparison to what's transpired the last 3-5 years. Data backs it up

  I totally agree with arkrem870 above.Next Spring thêre will be a few more brand new Ytube Turkey Hunting Groups to watch on Utube,I am sure.

Quote from: arkrem870 on August 05, 2021, 01:33:30 PM
YouTube / social media content guys are directly responsible for this current trend.  Outdoors writers sharing information has been around for a 100 years and though it still isn't a good practice it's nothing in comparison to what's transpired the last 3-5 years. Data backs it up

I'd be interested in seeing what data you may have.

 :blob10:

Quote from: simpzenith on August 05, 2021, 03:27:02 PM

Quote from: arkrem870 on August 05, 2021, 01:33:30 PM
YouTube / social media content guys are directly responsible for this current trend.  Outdoors writers sharing information has been around for a 100 years and though it still isn't a good practice it's nothing in comparison to what's transpired the last 3-5 years. Data backs it up

I'd be interested in seeing what data you may have.

I'd be interested to hear your response to the question below.  It would be a good opportunity to share your thoughts on it. 

I'm still anxiously awaiting the answer to a frequently posed question.  What are the positives for turkey populations and the future of turkey hunting in sharing specific public land information on social media for unlimited access, whether it be presented via YouTube channels or individuals on FB or forums? Anyone?   If anyone cares to answer, I'd first consider beyond what appears to be positive on the surface might be detrimental in the long run.

Quote from: El Pavo Grande on August 05, 2021, 03:40:12 PM
:blob10:

Quote from: simpzenith on August 05, 2021, 03:27:02 PM

Quote from: arkrem870 on August 05, 2021, 01:33:30 PM
YouTube / social media content guys are directly responsible for this current trend.  Outdoors writers sharing information has been around for a 100 years and though it still isn't a good practice it's nothing in comparison to what's transpired the last 3-5 years. Data backs it up

I'd be interested in seeing what data you may have.

I'd be interested to hear your response to the question below.  It would be a good opportunity to share your thoughts on it. 

I'm still anxiously awaiting the answer to a frequently posed question.  What are the positives for turkey populations and the future of turkey hunting in sharing specific public land information on social media for unlimited access, whether it be presented via YouTube channels or individuals on FB or forums? Anyone?   If anyone cares to answer, I'd first consider beyond what appears to be positive on the surface might be detrimental in the long run.

I'm sure he'll circle back ;)

I haven't looked at this in a while now.   8 pages now.   What's the score? :D

I think there's something we all can agree on: In your chosen hunting area a bird gobbles. 1) You are the only one to hear that bird and position on him to call. 2) Five other guys hear him and do the same. You're some kind of idiot if you choose scenario 2. Increased hunting pressure whether it be due to YouTube, FB, Instagram, word of mouth...and forums such as this...or whatever, taxes the resource...whether private or public ground. The resource can only take so much "taxation". Plus the "art" of turkey hunting has been so publicized and commercialized that any novice with some woodsmanship skills can hit the woods running. Back in the day it took a decent hunter several years to become a good turkey hunter. It ere what it ere...no going back.

Quote from: guesswho on August 05, 2021, 05:01:50 PM
I haven't looked at this in a while now.   8 pages now.   What's the score? :D

You pushed it to 9 by the way. 

You're guess is as good as mine, but one side of this debate has offered little more than the canned statements below. 

*It's a sign of the times.  Accept it.
*Public land has always been crowded.  Be creative.  Accept it. 
*Your jealous and envious. 
*There are negatives, BUT.....

You be the judge. 

Dang, I did take it to nine.   Just glancing through the previous 8 pages I'd say the non youtubers have built up a significant lead over the youtubers.

Yep.....all the turkey problems are solved Ronnie.  Quit telling the state you are in and all is well;)

Quote from: Turkeyman on August 05, 2021, 05:17:46 PM
I think there's something we all can agree on: In your chosen hunting area a bird gobbles. 1) You are the only one to hear that bird and position on him to call. 2) Five other guys hear him and do the same. You're some kind of idiot if you choose scenario 2. Increased hunting pressure whether it be due to YouTube, FB, Instagram, word of mouth...and forums such as this...or whatever, taxes the resource...whether private or public ground. The resource can only take so much "taxation". Plus the "art" of turkey hunting has been so publicized and commercialized that any novice with some woodsmanship skills can hit the woods running. Back in the day it took a decent hunter several years to become a good turkey hunter. It ere what it ere...no going back.

This is one of the best if not the best reply of this thread. It's definitely not just the YouTube boys, they just happen to be the whipping boys at the moment. Social media as a whole is responsible for the out of control snowball effect that we are seeing. With no apparent way to stop it. We have all used it for gain and it has backfired on us!
I also think states running full page advertisements in magazines was a poor idea on their part. I feel they do it for monetary gain with little or no regard for the resource. I know for certain Nebraska, Kansas, and Mississippi has advertised their turkey hunting and I'm sure there are others. Mississippi used to run a full page ad in the Louisiana Sportsman magazine every year around February and open their season up 2 weeks before any state with the exception of Florida. Wonder why they do that?

I would like to ask a question. Does anyone think we would still be seeing the population decline we are seeing IF social media lets just say never was invented? Or our we still gonna blame lack of trapping?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

^^^^^yes

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Some good post for sure .  Gentry , I still feel like the lack of trapping is part of the population decline in my area .  But it's just a small part . Most of the gobbler population is dying from lead poison , well nowadays tss poison !  Turkey hunting has become a fad , and social media has caused a big percentage of it .
Ps , I don't know how many of you fellas travel deer hunt also ? But I've noticed a huge increase in traveling bow hunters also on public ground . The you tubers are showing you how and where to go . They tell you just walk in further then the crowd ,   Well , the "crowd " is growing !! And lots of em can and will walk in just as far as you can .   

Quote from: Turkeyman on August 05, 2021, 05:17:46 PM
I think there's something we all can agree on: . Increased hunting pressure whether it be due to YouTube, FB, Instagram, word of mouth...and forums such as this...or whatever, taxes the resource...whether private or public ground. The resource can only take so much "taxation". Plus the "art" of turkey hunting has been so publicized and commercialized that any novice with some woodsmanship skills can hit the woods running. Back in the day it took a decent hunter several years to become a good turkey hunter. It ere what it ere...no going back.

Quote from: Gentry on August 05, 2021, 10:52:50 PM
It's definitely not just the YouTube boys, they just happen to be the whipping boys at the moment. Social media as a whole is responsible for the out of control snowball effect that we are seeing. With no apparent way to stop it. We have all used it for gain and it has backfired on us!

Quote from: Howie g on August 06, 2021, 07:46:08 AM
Most of the gobbler population is dying from lead poison , well nowadays tss poison !  Turkey hunting has become a fad , and social media has caused a big percentage of it .

Quote from: Gentry on August 05, 2021, 10:52:50 PM
I would like to ask a question. Does anyone think we would still be seeing the population decline we are seeing IF social media lets just say never was invented? Or our we still gonna blame lack of trapping?

I think this combination of comments sums up where things are. 
To directly answer the question asked:  Yes, turkey numbers are declining as a result of factors unrelated to hunting that are suppressing reproductive success.  However, that problem is accelerated by hunting in that hunters are killing mostly adult turkeys that ultimately are essential to the recovery of turkey numbers in areas of decline. Without population recruitment, gobbler numbers are gradually being thinned out by the increasing hunter numbers.  (The math involved in that theory should be pretty clear.  However, the entire equation revolves around solving the reproduction problems that are not hunting-related)

More hunters are choosing to turkey hunt due to the impacts of social media in all forms.  However, it should also be noted that spring gobbler hunting checks a lot of the boxes as to what a lot of folks look for in hunting.  Part of the problem lies in the fact spring gobbler hunting is just a very attractive form of hunting. (i.e....people try it, see how much fun it is, and naturally want to do more of it)

All of the above leads to only one conclusion:  Until the problem of reproductive failure is solved, wildlife managers have no choice but to conserve turkey numbers through decreases in harvest rates.  The only other option is to plan for supplementation of turkey numbers through "trap and transfer" programs (as has been pointed out several times in past discussions).

Prediction:  Under the current situation, we should expect continued decreases in season lengths and bag limits (which, admittedly, without solving the reproduction problems will do little long-term good).  In addition, expect public land hunting to be controlled by increasingly making public land areas "draw hunts".  Also, as the out-of-state hunting interest continues to climb, expect nonresident permit numbers to be limited, and for those to either be issued on a first-come, first-served basis, or more likely, though drawings as well. 

...At least, that's the view from here.... 

Looks like all these Youtube hunters need to stick with hog hunting in the future .. how bow and gun will travel..  :TooFunny:

Quote from: GobbleNut on August 06, 2021, 09:24:25 AM

Quote from: Turkeyman on August 05, 2021, 05:17:46 PM
I think there's something we all can agree on: . Increased hunting pressure whether it be due to YouTube, FB, Instagram, word of mouth...and forums such as this...or whatever, taxes the resource...whether private or public ground. The resource can only take so much "taxation". Plus the "art" of turkey hunting has been so publicized and commercialized that any novice with some woodsmanship skills can hit the woods running. Back in the day it took a decent hunter several years to become a good turkey hunter. It ere what it ere...no going back.

Quote from: Gentry on August 05, 2021, 10:52:50 PM
It's definitely not just the YouTube boys, they just happen to be the whipping boys at the moment. Social media as a whole is responsible for the out of control snowball effect that we are seeing. With no apparent way to stop it. We have all used it for gain and it has backfired on us!

Quote from: Howie g on August 06, 2021, 07:46:08 AM
Most of the gobbler population is dying from lead poison , well nowadays tss poison !  Turkey hunting has become a fad , and social media has caused a big percentage of it .

Quote from: Gentry on August 05, 2021, 10:52:50 PM
I would like to ask a question. Does anyone think we would still be seeing the population decline we are seeing IF social media lets just say never was invented? Or our we still gonna blame lack of trapping?

I think this combination of comments sums up where things are. 
To directly answer the question asked:  Yes, turkey numbers are declining as a result of factors unrelated to hunting that are suppressing reproductive success.  However, that problem is accelerated by hunting in that hunters are killing mostly adult turkeys that ultimately are essential to the recovery of turkey numbers in areas of decline. Without population recruitment, gobbler numbers are gradually being thinned out by the increasing hunter numbers.  (The math involved in that theory should be pretty clear.  However, the entire equation revolves around solving the reproduction problems that are not hunting-related)

More hunters are choosing to turkey hunt due to the impacts of social media in all forms.  However, it should also be noted that spring gobbler hunting checks a lot of the boxes as to what a lot of folks look for in hunting.  Part of the problem lies in the fact spring gobbler hunting is just a very attractive form of hunting. (i.e....people try it, see how much fun it is, and naturally want to do more of it)

All of the above leads to only one conclusion:  Until the problem of reproductive failure is solved, wildlife managers have no choice but to conserve turkey numbers through decreases in harvest rates.  The only other option is to plan for supplementation of turkey numbers through "trap and transfer" programs (as has been pointed out several times in past discussions).

Prediction:  Under the current situation, we should expect continued decreases in season lengths and bag limits (which, admittedly, without solving the reproduction problems will do little long-term good).  In addition, expect public land hunting to be controlled by increasingly making public land areas "draw hunts".  Also, as the out-of-state hunting interest continues to climb, expect nonresident permit numbers to be limited, and for those to either be issued on a first-come, first-served basis, or more likely, though drawings as well. 

...At least, that's the view from here.... 

Mr. Jordan from the book " the wild turkey and it's hunting" was ahead of his time.  In his  book he sead hunters must leave at least one " gobbling turkey " behind to insure your future hunting.

Will banning these groups from filming hunts on PUBLIC land, groups who are all directly making money off of the videos as well as merchandise sales, etc, be the next step taken by these states?

I have a hard time understanding why the hunting public or pinhotti project should be allowed to profit off a public resource that is obviously struggling nationwide? And don't give me the line we need more turkey hunters line. The data has shown that is simply not true.

Quote from: Chase0311 on August 08, 2021, 12:04:58 PM
Will banning these groups from filming hunts on PUBLIC land, groups who are all directly making money off of the videos as well as merchandise sales, etc, be the next step taken by these states?

I have a hard time understanding why the hunting public or pinhotti project should be allowed to profit off a public resource that is obviously struggling nationwide? And don't give me the line we need more turkey hunters line. The data has shown that is simply not true.

Well there is that 1st amendment of the constitution thing.

Quote from: Crghss on August 08, 2021, 07:52:17 PM

Quote from: Chase0311 on August 08, 2021, 12:04:58 PM
Will banning these groups from filming hunts on PUBLIC land, groups who are all directly making money off of the videos as well as merchandise sales, etc, be the next step taken by these states?

I have a hard time understanding why the hunting public or pinhotti project should be allowed to profit off a public resource that is obviously struggling nationwide? And don't give me the line we need more turkey hunters line. The data has shown that is simply not true.

Well there is that 1st amendment of the constitution thing.

Hey Crghss - I don't know if you are aware of this or not, but Missouri
is charging $500 per day for commercial videography on MDC public lands.
This went into effect on July 1st, 2021.
I don't know how to post a link, but you can put
"Missouri $500 per day commercial videography" into your search engine
and read about it.
This would definitely apply to YouTubers when you read the MDC's
definition of commercial videographers.
Will be interesting to see if other states follow their lead.

Quote from: Jimspur on August 10, 2021, 08:52:59 AM

Quote from: Crghss on August 08, 2021, 07:52:17 PM

Quote from: Chase0311 on August 08, 2021, 12:04:58 PM
Will banning these groups from filming hunts on PUBLIC land, groups who are all directly making money off of the videos as well as merchandise sales, etc, be the next step taken by these states?

I have a hard time understanding why the hunting public or pinhotti project should be allowed to profit off a public resource that is obviously struggling nationwide? And don't give me the line we need more turkey hunters line. The data has shown that is simply not true.

Well there is that 1st amendment of the constitution thing.

Hey Crghss - I don't know if you are aware of this or not, but Missouri
is charging $500 per day for commercial videography on public lands.
This went into effect on July 1st, 2021.
I don't know how to post a link, but you can put
"Missouri $500 per day commercial videography" into your search engine
and read about it.
This would definitely apply to YouTubers when you read the MDC's
definition of commercial videographers.
Will be interesting to see if other states follow their lead.

MDC previously did not allow commercial filming on their lands. Now they do, but with a pretty steep fee. As for federal lands, look up Price vs Barr.... judge said commercial filming permits on federal lands are unconstitutional.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Quote from: Gentry on August 05, 2021, 10:52:50 PM

Quote from: Turkeyman on August 05, 2021, 05:17:46 PM
I think there's something we all can agree on: In your chosen hunting area a bird gobbles. 1) You are the only one to hear that bird and position on him to call. 2) Five other guys hear him and do the same. You're some kind of idiot if you choose scenario 2. Increased hunting pressure whether it be due to YouTube, FB, Instagram, word of mouth...and forums such as this...or whatever, taxes the resource...whether private or public ground. The resource can only take so much "taxation". Plus the "art" of turkey hunting has been so publicized and commercialized that any novice with some woodsmanship skills can hit the woods running. Back in the day it took a decent hunter several years to become a good turkey hunter. It ere what it ere...no going back.

This is one of the best if not the best reply of this thread. It's definitely not just the YouTube boys, they just happen to be the whipping boys at the moment. Social media as a whole is responsible for the out of control snowball effect that we are seeing. With no apparent way to stop it. We have all used it for gain and it has backfired on us!
I also think states running full page advertisements in magazines was a poor idea on their part. I feel they do it for monetary gain with little or no regard for the resource. I know for certain Nebraska, Kansas, and Mississippi has advertised their turkey hunting and I'm sure there are others. Mississippi used to run a full page ad in the Louisiana Sportsman magazine every year around February and open their season up 2 weeks before any state with the exception of Florida. Wonder why they do that?

I would like to ask a question. Does anyone think we would still be seeing the population decline we are seeing IF social media lets just say never was invented? Or our we still gonna blame lack of trapping?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm sure there would be highs and lows in the population every few years just like it was since the day time began in all species from dinosaurs to monkeys to turkeys. But, without social media turkey hunting would've never hit the mainstream. Nor would biologists or "popular" hunters have a platform to reach hundreds of thousands of folks to spread fear about population decline. I can't speak for everyone, but I can say in my neck of the woods I haven't seen a population decrease in the past few years. Now I'm sure someone whose been hunting Southern MO or Northern AR since the 90s feels differently. I have seen a hunter increase and the quality of the hunt decrease. Many of the hunters I encounter now are new to the game who were traditional duck hunters who wanted to hunt a few more months a year. So to answer your question, i don't know. But it's obvious it increases the amount of hunters in woods. Especially with this public land craze I've witnessed the last few seasons.

I just received email confirmation that the state of Georgia is also paying an influencer to promote turkey and deer hunting in that state or to quote the email, "spread awareness of Georgia Hunting." The state is using funds from the sales of Hard Card Licenses in Georgia to pay the influencer, meaning hunters are essentially paying for it.

Keep in mind - public land turkey hunters in Georgia just went from an opening date of March 20 to April 10. This is a loss of 3 weeks of turkey hunting for hunters. The state also reduced the bag limit and added some very popular WMAs to their quota system. The reasoning behind this and I quote:

"southeastern states have seen noticeable declines in turkey populations"

"Because hunting pressure is greater on public lands"

Declining population, increasing pressure, and the state is paying to spread awareness? These do not add up.

Putting a fire out with gas, great plan!

Quote from: guesswho on August 13, 2021, 11:10:42 AM
Putting a fire out with gas, great plan!

It's all about the dollars,...and no cents (sense)...   ::)

Quote from: cwedding on August 13, 2021, 10:43:45 AM
I just received email confirmation that the state of Georgia is also paying an influencer to promote turkey and deer hunting in that state or to quote the email, "spread awareness of Georgia Hunting." The state is using funds from the sales of Hard Card Licenses in Georgia to pay the influencer, meaning hunters are essentially paying for it.

Keep in mind - public land turkey hunters in Georgia just went from an opening date of March 20 to April 10. This is a loss of 3 weeks of turkey hunting for hunters. The state also reduced the bag limit and added some very popular WMAs to their quota system. The reasoning behind this and I quote:

"southeastern states have seen noticeable declines in turkey populations"

"Because hunting pressure is greater on public lands"

Declining population, increasing pressure, and the state is paying to spread awareness? These do not add up.

Sickening. Limiting opportunity while paying folks to exploit opportunity! Gosh dang it! How the heck does it make any sense. I don't give a damn if they didn't pay with tax payer dollars. That Money from
The hard cards could've gone to something more useful than Zachs hair pomade or the new interns conversion therapy.

It adds up perfectly for me - they pretend to care about the resource,
but are addicted to the NR money.

The #1 Problem with this scenario..... The majority of "turkey" hunters have their head in the sand.  Either they don't care and only think of turkey and turkey hunting when it's convenient, refuse to recognize it, or even defend this all in the name of hunter recruitment.   Again, I can't understand something supposedly in the name of hunter recruitment playing a major role in reducing hunter opportunity, which in the long run will reduce hunter recruitment.  Someone please explain if I'm wrong.  I'm still waiting on the answer to my other question but it's been nothing but crickets.  Until enough hunters stand up and voice concerns it will only get worse. 

I've never been one to blame state agencies for the declines.  Sure, they could make better decisions at times, but they can only influence the reproduction of turkeys so much.  Hunters, landowners, timber companies, farmers, USFS, Mother Nature, etc..... many other factors.  But, in cases such as these they need to own the burden of the blame. 

I just had a brilliant idea, let's declare turkeys a public menace and kill them all. when we've extirpated them wildlife agencies will no longer have to worry about us troublesome turkey hunters and they can spend the money on office parties. Oh wait, no hunters equals no money, oh well Uncle Joe in the big house will executive order them some.  :funnyturkey:

Idiocy seems to be the theme of government management anymore. For years we insisted our youth get a college education, but we never bothered to do something about the liberal socialist agenda being pushed in our universities. This is "woke" wildlife management. The pendulum swings right to left and back again, how far it swings is a matter of what is in it's way. If we don't resist we shouldn't complain how far it goes. Our voice is never louder then when we vote. I became disappointed in both the NRA and NWTF, but this may well be the time we need a unified voice. If all who dropped off would rejoin and insist on better management we could be a feared voice again, Or find a new organization. It appears to me they don't listen to their constituents as much anymore in our state and Federal government. They all want to be the next messiah of man-kind. I have bad news for them, there is only one God and it ain't them.   

Sounds like GA has the game department doing one thing on one hand, and someone in the tourism end doing something else on the other.  They really should communicate more.

 :TrainWreck1:                                                                                                                  :popcorn:

Quote from: Crghss on July 31, 2021, 04:16:33 PM
I appreciate that. But I think the point of view that YouTube, social media, internet is destroying everything is very short sighted. Does it have an impact? Sure it does, I feel it's very minimal.

Numbers are down for turkeys. I don't feel hunting is causing this.

Loss of habitat or access to hunting grounds has been hugh in the last 30 years. Can't be over stated. Then the internet shows people where they can hunt. This is what people are really angry about. Don't  tell or show people where I hunt. Too late, there aren't any secrets anymore.

Predator is number contributor to low #'s as far as I can see. As stated endlessly on OG no one traps anymore. Coyotes are everywhere. So are raptors.

Raptors is the most overlooked cause of low turkey numbers, IMO. One reason the transplanting or stocking of turkeys was so successful in 90's was the absence of raptors. DDT decimated hawks and eagles. But like turkeys we restored the raptor population in the environment. This one is something we can't ever change.

Also the standard of living has been increasing. People have way more disposal income. In 1981 only people with money got on a plane to fly, for any reason. If some one went out west to hunt, they drove, it was a once in a life time trip. Now people get on a plane with their expensive tricked out gear and fly to hunt every year.

Fishing, hunting, hiking, camping is all getting over run with people. Because the population has been increasing and access is decreasing. We're all going to just have to deal with it.

Must not be paying attention to all the trucks with Pinhoti stickers on the back windows with mountain bikes in the bed down in South Florida. The hunter pressure was high 5 years ago, but now it's ridiculous. Minimal impact though...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

^ Agreed. If you've hunted public in south Florida or Tennessee or even Mississippi prior to the YouTube era till now, there's no denying the damage it has caused. YouTubers are laughing all the way to the bank, while telling those naive enough to believe it that they are doing it in the name of 'hunter recruitment' and it's fine.

Quote from: SD_smith on August 14, 2021, 04:45:46 PM
Must not be paying attention to all the trucks with Pinhoti stickers on the back windows with mountain bikes in the bed down in South Florida. The hunter pressure was high 5 years ago, but now it's ridiculous. Minimal impact though...

In all my years of hunting south Florida public land I've never seen a Pinhoti sticker on a truck.

Think going from 15 million to 21 million people in the last 10 years might have something to do with it?

In addition to almost no private land available since everyone leases now.

Websites like this one and Florida Sportsman have WAY more impact in increasing hunter numbers then youtubers. Everyone's gotta get there Osceola.

Quote from: Crghss on August 15, 2021, 07:22:59 PM

Quote from: SD_smith on August 14, 2021, 04:45:46 PM
Must not be paying attention to all the trucks with Pinhoti stickers on the back windows with mountain bikes in the bed down in South Florida. The hunter pressure was high 5 years ago, but now it's ridiculous. Minimal impact though...

In all my years of hunting south Florida public land I've never seen a Pinhoti sticker on a truck.

Think going from 15 million to 21 million people in the last 10 years might have something to do with it?

In addition to almost no private land available since everyone leases now.

Websites like this one and Florida Sportsman have WAY more impact in increasing hunter numbers then youtubers. Everyone's gotta get there Osceola.

I read in another thread that the number of turkey hunting licenses sold to people who live in Florida has been declining. At the same time, sales to out of state hunters has increased. Maybe they are losing places to hunt on private land and crowding onto public, but the recent increase there and elsewhere sure coincides with YouTube popularity.

Quote from: Spurs Up on August 15, 2021, 08:41:07 PM
I read in another thread that the number of turkey hunting licenses sold to people who live in Florida has been declining. At the same time, sales to out of state hunters has increased. Maybe they are losing places to hunt on private land and crowding onto public, but the recent increase there and elsewhere sure coincides with YouTube popularity.

I don't know this to be true. I think we have modest hunting license sale increases every year, but as a percentage of population it is decreasing. We have millions of people move here every year.

And we don't have much open public land to hunt in the southern part. Most is controlled by quotas. So it  is harder to get a permit but there aren't more hunters out there.

I hunt the non-permit WMA's. It's crazy, most don't come back. Took me a few years of trying till I settled in. And now with the explosion of ATV it's really nuts.

IMHO, NR licenses are increasing because everyone wants a slam. "Guides" lease land and sell hunts. But  there aren't huge numbers of NR hunters. The only thing a NR would want to hunt in FL is turkey. Nothing else.

 :welcomeOG:

Quote from: Crghss on August 15, 2021, 09:55:08 PM

Quote from: Spurs Up on August 15, 2021, 08:41:07 PM
I read in another thread that the number of turkey hunting licenses sold to people who live in Florida has been declining. At the same time, sales to out of state hunters has increased. Maybe they are losing places to hunt on private land and crowding onto public, but the recent increase there and elsewhere sure coincides with YouTube popularity.

I don't know this to be true. I think we have modest hunting license sale increases every year, but as a percentage of population it is decreasing. We have millions of people move here every year.

And we don't have much open public land to hunt in the southern part. Most is controlled by quotas. So it  is harder to get a permit but there aren't more hunters out there.

I hunt the non-permit WMA's. It's crazy, most don't come back. Took me a few years of trying till I settled in. And now with the explosion of ATV it's really nuts.

IMHO, NR licenses are increasing because everyone wants a slam. "Guides" lease land and sell hunts. But  there aren't huge numbers of NR hunters. The only thing a NR would want to hunt in FL is turkey. Nothing else.

Just because you don't see it in front of you doesn't mean it's not happening. Speaking as a FL resident turkey hunter FL most all of my life for the past 45 years and non-resident to other states... I can say it's seen and felt at home and across the boarders. However, there isn't enough data than I can find YET to validate some of the information.

I do agree with the above assessment the "slam" and also "The only thing a NR would want to hunt in FL is turkey." but, probably add alligators to that as well.

FFWC in my opinion and comparison to other states is not good at game harvest records and providing those numbers to the public. They're also not great at hunter records other than on check in WMA quota hunts. So, I'll just pose a question... how do you fulfill your mission of "Managing fish and wildlife resources for their long-term well-being and the benefit of people" when you don't have great data to guide you for either?

I'm still working on some of this but, I'll just give you some numbers I had to crunch from a search through the US National Fish & Wildlife Service data at https://www.fws.gov/wsfrprograms/subpages/licenseinfo/hunting.htm

Please also note that I cannot find where FFWC has this information made public (they should) and I'm doing my best to get this information and further break it down. I also want numbers regarding public land WMA's and quota hunt breakdowns as well. I'll keep y'all updated as I can.

FROM US FISH & WILDLIFE SERVICE
In year 2000, 2.02% of the Total Hunting Licences, Tags, Permits & Stamps was to Non-Residents.

In year 2010 it was 3.87% to Non-Residents
In year 2015 it was 4.15% to Non-Residents
In year 2017 it was 4.51% to Non-Residents
In year 2018 it was 5.47% to Non-Residents
In year 2019 it was 5.71% to Non-Residents
In year 2020 it was 6.17% to Non-Residents
In year 2021 6.81% was to Non-Residents

So, to summarize from this data between 2020 to 2021 we can make some observations ...

- the % of non-resident hunters in FL increased substantially
- the % of resident hunters FL decreased substantially
- the number of non-resident licenses, permits, stamps, etc has more than tripled from 2020 (6,511) to
  2021 (20,104)

If from the above statement, it's likely that a large portion of the non-residents are turkey hunters what do you think is happening?

Where are they all going? What happens when the public land resource is tapped? What happens when the private land resource is tapped? What happens to R3, hunter recruitment when there isn't much left to recruit to? When the resident hunters of the state are the main stake holders and they are all but pushed out and smothered who's going to be the advocates, allies and voices of accountability to the managers who are already tapped and unknowing of what's already going on?

If you want info on Florida turkey permit sales (resident and non-resident), WMA quota hunt applications, etc., submit a request for information at the following link:

https://myfwc.com/contact/public-records-requests/

I've compiled a tremendous amount of turkey data on Florida through the information they've provided me after I've made specific public records requests.

Quote from: Crghss on August 15, 2021, 07:22:59 PM

Quote from: SD_smith on August 14, 2021, 04:45:46 PM
Must not be paying attention to all the trucks with Pinhoti stickers on the back windows with mountain bikes in the bed down in South Florida. The hunter pressure was high 5 years ago, but now it's ridiculous. Minimal impact though...

In all my years of hunting south Florida public land I've never seen a Pinhoti sticker on a truck.

Think going from 15 million to 21 million people in the last 10 years might have something to do with it?

In addition to almost no private land available since everyone leases now.

Websites like this one and Florida Sportsman have WAY more impact in increasing hunter numbers then youtubers. Everyone's gotta get there Osceola.

You're right that everyone has to get their osceola since they're only down here and nowhere else. Hence all the Pinhoti stickers on all the trucks from everywhere else that's not Florida. A true hunter is an observant hunter and you'd think you'd notice that, but who am I kidding.

I wonder how many hits this site gets daily compared to the videos? I doubt it's comparable. Please grace us with the facts oh wise one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: FLGobstopper on August 16, 2021, 03:06:42 PM
:welcomeOG:

Quote from: Crghss on August 15, 2021, 09:55:08 PM

Quote from: Spurs Up on August 15, 2021, 08:41:07 PM
I read in another thread that the number of turkey hunting licenses sold to people who live in Florida has been declining. At the same time, sales to out of state hunters has increased. Maybe they are losing places to hunt on private land and crowding onto public, but the recent increase there and elsewhere sure coincides with YouTube popularity.

I don't know this to be true. I think we have modest hunting license sale increases every year, but as a percentage of population it is decreasing. We have millions of people move here every year.

And we don't have much open public land to hunt in the southern part. Most is controlled by quotas. So it  is harder to get a permit but there aren't more hunters out there.

I hunt the non-permit WMA's. It's crazy, most don't come back. Took me a few years of trying till I settled in. And now with the explosion of ATV it's really nuts.

IMHO, NR licenses are increasing because everyone wants a slam. "Guides" lease land and sell hunts. But  there aren't huge numbers of NR hunters. The only thing a NR would want to hunt in FL is turkey. Nothing else.

Just because you don't see it in front of you doesn't mean it's not happening. Speaking as a FL resident turkey hunter FL most all of my life for the past 45 years and non-resident to other states... I can say it's seen and felt at home and across the boarders. However, there isn't enough data than I can find YET to validate some of the information.

I do agree with the above assessment the "slam" and also "The only thing a NR would want to hunt in FL is turkey." but, probably add alligators to that as well.

FFWC in my opinion and comparison to other states is not good at game harvest records and providing those numbers to the public. They're also not great at hunter records other than on check in WMA quota hunts. So, I'll just pose a question... how do you fulfill your mission of "Managing fish and wildlife resources for their long-term well-being and the benefit of people" when you don't have great data to guide you for either?

I'm still working on some of this but, I'll just give you some numbers I had to crunch from a search through the US National Fish & Wildlife Service data at https://www.fws.gov/wsfrprograms/subpages/licenseinfo/hunting.htm

Please also note that I cannot find where FFWC has this information made public (they should) and I'm doing my best to get this information and further break it down. I also want numbers regarding public land WMA's and quota hunt breakdowns as well. I'll keep y'all updated as I can.

FROM US FISH & WILDLIFE SERVICE
In year 2000, 2.02% of the Total Hunting Licences, Tags, Permits & Stamps was to Non-Residents.

In year 2010 it was 3.87% to Non-Residents
In year 2015 it was 4.15% to Non-Residents
In year 2017 it was 4.51% to Non-Residents
In year 2018 it was 5.47% to Non-Residents
In year 2019 it was 5.71% to Non-Residents
In year 2020 it was 6.17% to Non-Residents
In year 2021 6.81% was to Non-Residents

So, to summarize from this data between 2020 to 2021 we can make some observations ...

- the % of non-resident hunters in FL increased substantially
- the % of resident hunters FL decreased substantially
- the number of non-resident licenses, permits, stamps, etc has more than tripled from 2020 (6,511) to
  2021 (20,104)

If from the above statement, it's likely that a large portion of the non-residents are turkey hunters what do you think is happening?

Where are they all going? What happens when the public land resource is tapped? What happens when the private land resource is tapped? What happens to R3, hunter recruitment when there isn't much left to recruit to? When the resident hunters of the state are the main stake holders and they are all but pushed out and smothered who's going to be the advocates, allies and voices of accountability to the managers who are already tapped and unknowing of what's already going on?

Thanks for the data and breakdown!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: SD_smith on August 17, 2021, 06:36:01 PM
You're right that everyone has to get their osceola since they're only down here and nowhere else. Hence all the Pinhoti stickers on all the trucks from everywhere else that's not Florida. A true hunter is an observant hunter and you'd think you'd notice that, but who am I kidding.

So a true hunter goes around checking for Pinhoti stickers on all the trucks from everywhere else that's not Florida? OK, you got me. I'm not a true hunter. Guess I'll have stick with looking for turkeys.

Quote from: Crghss on August 17, 2021, 07:34:55 PM

Quote from: SD_smith on August 17, 2021, 06:36:01 PM
You're right that everyone has to get their osceola since they're only down here and nowhere else. Hence all the Pinhoti stickers on all the trucks from everywhere else that's not Florida. A true hunter is an observant hunter and you'd think you'd notice that, but who am I kidding.

So a true hunter goes around checking for Pinhoti stickers on all the trucks from everywhere else that's not Florida? OK, you got me. I'm not a true hunter. Guess I'll have stick with looking for turkeys.

I'd wager you don't see many of those either


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: eggshell on August 13, 2021, 05:27:02 PM
I just had a brilliant idea, let's declare turkeys a public menace and kill them all. when we've extirpated them wildlife agencies will no longer have to worry about us troublesome turkey hunters and they can spend the money on office parties. Oh wait, no hunters equals no money, oh well Uncle Joe in the big house will executive order them some.  :funnyturkey:

Idiocy seems to be the theme of government management anymore. For years we insisted our youth get a college education, but we never bothered to do something about the liberal socialist agenda being pushed in our universities. This is "woke" wildlife management. The pendulum swings right to left and back again, how far it swings is a matter of what is in it's way. If we don't resist we shouldn't complain how far it goes. Our voice is never louder then when we vote. I became disappointed in both the NRA and NWTF, but this may well be the time we need a unified voice. If all who dropped off would rejoin and insist on better management we could be a feared voice again, Or find a new organization. It appears to me they don't listen to their constituents as much anymore in our state and Federal government. They all want to be the next messiah of man-kind. I have bad news for them, there is only one God and it ain't them.

AMEN BROTHER

Quote from: SD_smith on August 17, 2021, 09:06:32 PM
I'd wager you don't see many of those either

A fool and his money are soon parted

Further information obtained:

1) GA paid 1 influencer $23,000

2) TN paid an influencer at least $10,000 ("The TWRA Agency's Portion was $10,000"). Apparently the rest would have been paid through a different branch. I am trying to find the numbers on the rest of the money.

3) TWRA seems pretty hacked off at me at this point, but I don't really care.

Quote from: cwedding on August 26, 2021, 12:46:16 PM
Further information obtained:

1) GA paid 1 influencer $23,000

2) TN paid an influencer at least $10,000 ("The TWRA Agency's Portion was $10,000"). Apparently the rest would have been paid through a different branch. I am trying to find the numbers on the rest of the money.

3) TWRA seems pretty hacked off at me at this point, but I don't really care.

Ruffled their feathers....oh well.  Such ignorance on their part needs do be called out. 

So, I guess the argument is debunked that the TWRA probably didn't even know about it, and that the Tennessee Department of Tourism was to blame instead.  I'd think they don't give up $10,000 without knowing it.   

Georgia hunters shouldn't be too happy I wouldn't think.  $23,000 investment to take opportunity away.

It's still hard to comprehend knowing that they understand the current state and trends of population levels in these states and across the entire South East.   

FROM US FISH & WILDLIFE SERVICE
In year 2000, 2.02% of the Total Hunting Licences, Tags, Permits & Stamps was to Non-Residents.

In year 2010 it was 3.87% to Non-Residents
In year 2015 it was 4.15% to Non-Residents
In year 2017 it was 4.51% to Non-Residents
In year 2018 it was 5.47% to Non-Residents
In year 2019 it was 5.71% to Non-Residents
In year 2020 it was 6.17% to Non-Residents
In year 2021 6.81% was to Non-Residents

So, to summarize from this data between 2020 to 2021 we can make some observations ...

- the % of non-resident hunters in FL increased substantially
- the % of resident hunters FL decreased substantially
- the number of non-resident licenses, permits, stamps, etc has more than tripled from 2020 (6,511) to
  2021 (20,104)

Is this a typo? The totals of 2020@ 6511 and 2021@20104 do not line up with the above data provided. It did more than triple from 2000 to 2021. Not by 300% from 2020 to 2021. At .64% increase from 2020 to 2021 to equate to 13593 new non res license sales that would mean FL would have to sell somewhere around 2,750,000 licenses?

Holy cow, I am glad I hunt private in Florida. I would be afraid to trip over someone, if I could find a place to park.

Lots of retirees moved to Fl every year and become residents as well. How many of those new residents go out and buy one if any number of these fish and wildlife licenses?

I do not believe these numbers are true by any means representing Non residents turkey hunters alone.

As you pointed out, res license sales are decreasing. If NonRes license sale stay the same yearly while res sales go down, non res % of sale will increase while staying the same number overall. Simple math.

While turkey hunting I don't ride around checking out bumper stickers either. I leave that for the trip to and from.


I come to kill turkeys

Quote from: WV Flopper on August 26, 2021, 10:04:26 PM
While turkey hunting I don't ride around checking out bumper stickers either. I leave that for the trip to and from.


I come to kill turkeys

Had to validate your self-worth....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk