The numbers don’t lie

[Chase0311]

I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

Spoken like a YouTube influencer, admittedly one of the less impactful ones. Why not refute the stats?

[El Pavo Grande]

I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

I'll take your word for it seeing what I've seen here. I thought I was selfish till I saw some of the stuff posted on forums....I understand it sucks seeing more people in your woods every year, but it's not just the woods, it's the whole country and the whole world. Human population keeps going up, hunter population needs to keep going up if we want any say in the future of hunting. Yea it sucks bag limits will go down and seasons will shorten, but it is what it is. Let's just enjoy what we got, life is still good. I've heard more good than bad about the turkey hatch this year, so there's something to be positive about.


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I would genuinely like to hear your opinion on one main point discussed in the podcast.  Do you think it's good practice for states to use state funds to pay YouTube videographers to promote public land turkey hunting in states with obvious turkey population declines?   Do you think this directly correlates to an increase in hunting pressure on public lands, thus playing a role in the reduced hunter opportunity with an increase in restrictions such as reduced bag limits and season lengths?   Not the sole reason, but a role?

I know this question isn't for me but I'm going to throw out my input. Shane stated in an earlier post he was offered money by the dept of tourism for a state which he declined. After listening to the podcast it is clear and I think falsely so that the hosts think wildlife management is responsible for trying to promote hunting in their states. Dept's of tourism are most likely the culprit. Do you really think the gal in the tourism dept checked with the wildlife division before she cut a check to a promote tourism in her state through turkey hunting or if she even cares about the results to said wildlife for that matter. Her goal was to increase tourism. It's her job and she was very successful in the case of Tenn. That comes back to the point of Turkey's belonging to all residents of Tenn not just the hunters. Food for thought

The email I received confirming that payment was made to the influencers was from TWRA in Tennessee. They stated that they use the funds to promote R3 and use funds specifically from selling the hard card hunting and fishing licenses. Please feel free to research this further for yourself.

The info I gathered on R3 from the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies is Tenn has a state mandate that allocates funds from the sale of lifetime licenses to people under the age of 16 to an endowment to help fund the fish and wildlife agency. The money is to be used to preserve, propagate, and promote fishing and hunting in Tenn.

From what it appears Tenn state assembly in an effort to secure and preserve hunting and fishing passed a law that allocates money to the promotion of hunting and fishing in Tenn along with funding to help the state wildlife agency. That's the take I get from what I've read in this link.
https://www.fishwildlife.org/law-research-library/law-categories/r3-mandates/tennessee-r3-mandates

So is it  that the TWRA funded the promotion of hunting and fishing in Tenn or is the funding provided by the state Assembly and mandated by law. Apperently in effort to preserve hunting and fishing Tenn passed a law to fund the promotion as well.

Back to "I'm from the govt and I'm here to help."

I agree with Reagan's comment 100%.  At the end of the day it doesn't matter as much where the money came from within the state, but more the principle that the state was actively promoting public land turkey hunting in the current environment of concerns for declining populations all across the south east.   It makes no sense other than $$$.  One key point in the podcast holds truth....if turkey numbers grow, naturally the interest in hunting them does as well and the states sell more licenses.  That's natural growth and it's sustainable.  How about these states focus on what's important right now.  I'd still bet big money that Becky from the tourism department didn't put together a package for influencers without involving the state wildlife department.  Maybe Bob with the wildlife department was out to lunch
when she called to discuss, so she just assumed it would be ok to proceed. 

Here's what I do know, anytime the question has been posed to what positives will or have resulted from promoting public land in specific states on YouTube, Facebook, or any other form of social media, there is NEVER an answer.  Usually it's crickets...... no response.  Other than claiming it's nothing more than complaining or bashing.  Why is that??  Why not provide a sound argument?  I would argue at this point we can forgo "hunter recruitment" since in the long run it has played a role in limiting hunter opportunity.....Let's see how this works out for hunter recruitment in the long run if it continues.  And it's a bit naive for so many to truly believe education and hunter recruitment is the inspiration behind it all.  If you don't think it's some form of personal gain, then keep dreaming.  With all this said, when it comes to YouTube I enjoy watching some of it, and like the way one or two of them hunt.  But, that doesn't mean I'm incapable of recognizing the negatives that come along with it.  Doesn't make me popular, but that's ok.  Some of y'all are going to ride that train right off the cliff.   

[quavers59]

   Thêre must be over 30 Utube Turkey Hunting Groups- Known and not so well known.
    Used to be- you parked first and you would have your Honeyhole Field
  Now a Utube group will be at that Field also...
  Imagine how many early morning conflicts happen that never get filmed and lost hunts for the Locals.
  Just Saying...

[Hook hanger]

Interesting numbers in  this pod cast!!!!!

[catman529]

Catman thats what i would say too if someone brought  to light the negatives of "my side hustle". After what u have turned your local wma into from your youtube videos I would sit this one fella.

There are several WMAs within an hours drive of my place that all see the same crazy amount of hunting pressure, and I've hunted all of em at one time or another. They're all near a very large city and have really good habitat so it's kind of a given that they will be slammed with hunters.

Now there is one area in particular that I'm assuming you are referring to where I've hunted the most. I can take some of the blame for it's popularity, even though I never named it in any videos, I wasn't careful enough to hide it from prying eyes. However there are several different reasons why it became so popular, I am one of those reasons no doubt, but there are other factors at play and I bet if I'd never hunted there, that area would still be just as popular in the near future if not already. That's just a guess, but seeing the urban growth over the past 10 years, it was gonna happen at one time or another.

I've been filming my hunts since the start because I enjoyed it, and I still enjoy it just as much now. It was never my intention to give away a good spot, and I had no idea so many people would watch my videos back when I first started. I'm not gonna quit making videos either, sorry if you don't like that, but at least know that I am doing everything I can not to give away someone's local honey hole.


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[PaytonWP]

CATMAN your so full of crap. You make videos and put them on the internet because it makes you feel good to get acknowledged. The acknowledgment is what you enjoy. Same with Shane, pretty boy Dave, and THP. You ruined a spot of mine by posting actual topo maps from ONX exactly where you were. I'm sure onX money didn't influence that decision though. I'm about like the ole hand at the beginning of this thread that said we'll just start policing this stuff ourselves. I'd hate to know I was ruining public land turkey hunting for a little bit of money and a bunch of strange men's likes. If you like videoing so much then video it and keep it on your own computer.

[Howie g]

I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

Or just maybe , the un named guy on the podcast didn't do the podcast just for notoriety, and opposite of most podcasters / you tubers / face space cowboys etc, he just shared his info to the public to actually  help ? Just a thought ...

[guesswho]

I have no idea because I don't watch any of them.   But do the "influencers" number of subscribers seem to be trending upwards or downwards?   

[catman529]

CATMAN your so full of crap. You make videos and put them on the internet because it makes you feel good to get acknowledged. The acknowledgment is what you enjoy. Same with Shane, pretty boy Dave, and THP. You ruined a spot of mine by posting actual topo maps from ONX exactly where you were. I'm sure onX money didn't influence that decision though. I'm about like the ole hand at the beginning of this thread that said we'll just start policing this stuff ourselves. I'd hate to know I was ruining public land turkey hunting for a little bit of money and a bunch of strange men's likes. If you like videoing so much then video it and keep it on your own computer.

Nice try buddy, I haven't posted a topo of an exact spot in over 2 years, and the only spot I can can think of that I did is definitely not ruined... but whatever you say


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[arkrem870]

Actually he hit the nail square on the head catman...... most of us are just too nice to say it. 

[GobblinNC]

I'll take your word for it seeing what I've seen here. I thought I was selfish till I saw some of the stuff posted on forums....I understand it sucks seeing more people in your woods every year, but it's not just the woods, it's the whole country and the whole world. Human population keeps going up, hunter population needs to keep going up if we want any say in the future of hunting. Yea it sucks bag limits will go down and seasons will shorten, but it is what it is. Let's just enjoy what we got, life is still good. I've heard more good than bad about the turkey hatch this year, so there's something to be positive about.


Tragedy of the commons. This is a perfect example.. The public land certainly does not need any further exploitation. What we need hunter numbers for is to conserve more private land.

[eggshell]

I don't watch youtube videos as a rule, but I have clicked a link or two and I usually don't like what I see. I find they just don't convey the hunt well. I have never used one to find a spot, but I have lost spots to them.

I been at this for 50 years and intrusion has always happened, in the past it just took longer. Someone hanging up pictures in a gun shop or talking at a sports show, or a magazine article. It happened, but didn't show up as fast. Many years ago an old sage gave me some sound advice. "try to find at least one new spot every year, because sooner or later your going to lose everyone you have now". So I learned to always be on the hunt for both turkeys and spots. It has gotten much harder in recent years, mostly due to leasing of land. More and more the only options are public land. States are trying to secure more land but it takes money. So the more the focus is turned to public the more spot burning becomes an issue.

Just this last spring I pulled into an out-of-state area I have hunted for 30 years without conflict and got to hunt my old favorite honey hole one morning and found out I had to move on. Not one but two camps full of hunters had moved in and taken over. One group actually camped in the woods right where the turkeys roosted in the past. They would set in there camp and wait for a bird to gobble and then take off like the light brigade in full charge to the bird. There were 4-6 young guys (18-25 yrs old) in each camp. After talking to them I found out that the average hunting experience was 2-3 yrs and some did not understand anything about hunting courtesy or ethics. They actually laughed about screwing some "old dude" out of a bird. One guy was doing nothing but running a video camera. Further conversation revealed they all were youtube fans of certain young youtube hunters. I was disappointed, but gracious and wished them good luck and moved on, abandoning my favorite spot for the last 30+ years. Thankfully I had picked up a new farm this year and had a backup plan. So whining won't help, but do your homework and find some backup spots, because sooner or later someone else will show up.  It's always happened, this is not a new thing.

One thing I would like to see video guys do, and maybe you do, is talk about some hunter ethics and common courtesy in your segments. Maybe show a case where you know a guy has position on a bird and state I'm going to honor this guy's hard work and move on.  I know I will never set up on a bird I know someone else is set up on, but I have had it happen to me countless times. To me it's like taking food off someone's plate. Just my opinion, maybe right maybe wrong.

[TurkeyReaper69]

I listened to it but quickly realized the guest was simply one the YT bashers from this forum hiding behind a pseudonym and repeating the same stuff that they post in this forum. If you keep up with this forum, then you've already seen everything that'll be discussed in the podcast.

I'll take your word for it seeing what I've seen here. I thought I was selfish till I saw some of the stuff posted on forums....I understand it sucks seeing more people in your woods every year, but it's not just the woods, it's the whole country and the whole world. Human population keeps going up, hunter population needs to keep going up if we want any say in the future of hunting. Yea it sucks bag limits will go down and seasons will shorten, but it is what it is. Let's just enjoy what we got, life is still good. I've heard more good than bad about the turkey hatch this year, so there's something to be positive about.


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Catman if your gonna spew this happy go lucky garbage out of your rear end how about you put down the camera and get involved in politics and legislation to help with hunters interests. Lobby for us on our behalf. Shooting gobblers out trees does absolutely nothin to help with the rise in hunters or would population or whatever that half wit response is.

Like I said earlier I don't have an issue if a man truly enjoys filming as his passion which obviously you must if you've been doing it for so long. But stop getting on here with Shane defending yalls selves with these half wit remarks. I can't think of one thing you've ever done to actually help the turkey, and as far as Shane goes his resume stops at teaching folks how to use a call.

[Shiloh]

Eggshell comes through again with a common sense post.  YouTube and social media isn't going anywhere, so you guys might as well make up your minds how it can be used to help the sport and quit with the negative post.  How about a video about moving on and not screwing up a hunt when someone beats you to your spot?  What about some videos showing trapping nest predators on public lands?  What about these guys using their influence to help fund research to show what is really going on?  There are bigger issues than crowded public lands and we don't need to ignore those issues.  Ask the folks in Louisiana and Arkansas.

[Shiloh]

And one more thing.......the guy in the podcast has a perfectly good reason for not mentioning his name.  I get how that could cause folks to wonder, but he has a good reason.