The numbers don’t lie

[catman529]

I don't have anything against YouTubers such as Catman and Shane,
but we have to acknowledge the fact that these videos are only one
of a myriad of things going against turkeys.

I'm assuming that the member here (cwedding), is Cameron Weddington,
one of the hosts of the podcast.

I would encourage Catman and Shane to take him up on his offer to
be on the podcast to give your viewpoints and perspective on things.
People on this site tend to have strong opinions on the effects of
social media, videos, etc., and it would be good to hear what you guys
think about these things from your side of the fence.

Maybe you guys could do the podcast together with Cameron and Andy.
It could be a 2 hour podcast. Anyway, I hope y'all take him up on his
offer.
                                         Jim

I wouldn't mind doing a podcast some time. A civil discussion in person (or on the phone) will go a lot further than some of the crazy stuff being said on the forums. Just reading through the last few posts in this thread, I see a whole lot of assumptions and some things that are downright untrue. Like Shane, I didn't see too many other hunters this year, just a few here and there. Definitely not as bad as it was last year with all the people out of work due to Covid. I hunted only three states this year, starting with the Alabama early opener seeing the most hunters, but I still had plenty of woods to myself even with that many people out, and as always tried to stay away from other hunters. The hunting ain't bad at all if you put in a lil effort.


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[Jimspur]

I don't have anything against YouTubers such as Catman and Shane,
but we have to acknowledge the fact that these videos are only one
of a myriad of things going against turkeys.

I'm assuming that the member here (cwedding), is Cameron Weddington,
one of the hosts of the podcast.

I would encourage Catman and Shane to take him up on his offer to
be on the podcast to give your viewpoints and perspective on things.
People on this site tend to have strong opinions on the effects of
social media, videos, etc., and it would be good to hear what you guys
think about these things from your side of the fence.

Maybe you guys could do the podcast together with Cameron and Andy.
It could be a 2 hour podcast. Anyway, I hope y'all take him up on his
offer.
                                         Jim

I wouldn't mind doing a podcast some time. A civil discussion in person (or on the phone) will go a lot further than some of the crazy stuff being said on the forums. Just reading through the last few posts in this thread, I see a whole lot of assumptions and some things that are downright untrue. Like Shane, I didn't see too many other hunters this year, just a few here and there. Definitely not as bad as it was last year with all the people out of work due to Covid. I hunted only three states this year, starting with the Alabama early opener seeing the most hunters, but I still had plenty of woods to myself even with that many people out, and as always tried to stay away from other hunters. The hunting ain't bad at all if you put in a lil effort.


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Most of the people on this forum aren't YouTubers, that's why it would be good to hear from you guys. There's always benefit in seeing the other
side. I also think sometimes it's harder to get your point across when
you're typing it out and posting it. Sometimes things get lost in the
translation.

On a funny side note - I was in Alabama in 2020 and saw your old truck
twice, I also saw Zach at his vehicle one day. Small world.

Anyway, hope y'all can do the podcast because you're sure to get a
civil discussion from Cameron and Andy.

[WV Flopper]

I am going to stick with what I have said previous, " I have no problem with the you tubers as long as they stay respectful of others". They don't need to name specific names of places they hunt. In my book, a state is ok.

So what if a state pays them? I think the problem with this is plain and simple jealousy. They are going to hunt somewhere. Where do you think they would hunt if someone paid them incentives to hunt? I will do the same, if enticed. Even Arkansas, after all the Arkansas bashing done here, If their paying, I am there.

This tactic by states has been going on forever, it's not even close to new. I am willing to bet it's been going on as long as I am old, and I am not wet behind the ears as so many of our new hunters in force.

I would spend time and money barking up a different tree than this one. This tree is slick as far as I am concerned! This tree isn't going to gain anything but more regulations that people are going to cry about later.

When you succeed with your stopping of videos on public, do you think regulations will stop there? Arizona! And don't think those regs can't be pushed into private ground as well. The state owns the ground, you are only a care taker of it. If you doubt this, stop paying your taxes.

Donate your time and effort towards a solution and this isn't it.

The population on Earth grows daily, daily we try to Recruit more hunters. It's not rocket science. More hunter in the woods, lots of them just spooking turkeys, not killing them. Turkeys are being killed, just as they always have. By the same people that have always killed them. The turkey population is going down in places, just like upland birds do. When we figure this out, we will be overrun with turkeys and upland birds. If the economy will allow it.

Not trying to offend, and I am sorry if I offend you. But, I believe the you tubers are not the solution, or the problem. We are as a society evolving, this is the aftermath. Check yourself. How many here on this thread still hunt the same and use the same equipment and accessories as the hunters of 50 years ago? We are evolving. There will be bumps in the road.

[Crghss]

So who and how much money is being made from the link in the first post?

[arkrem870]

Spin it anyway you'd like......but the numbers don't lie. You can argue with them all day but you'll be wrong. YouTube pimping of public land has had DIRECT negatives on wild turkeys and wild turkey hunters as regulations/restrictions are made to combat the influx of new/traveling turkey hunters.   This is factual information and is undeniable. 

[Crghss]

Spin it anyway you'd like......but the numbers don't lie. You can argue with them all day but you'll be wrong. YouTube pimping of public land has had DIRECT negatives on wild turkeys and wild turkey hunters as regulations/restrictions are made to combat the influx of new/traveling turkey hunters.   This is factual information and is undeniable.

So who and how much money is being made from the link in your first post?

[cwedding]

Spin it anyway you'd like......but the numbers don't lie. You can argue with them all day but you'll be wrong. YouTube pimping of public land has had DIRECT negatives on wild turkeys and wild turkey hunters as regulations/restrictions are made to combat the influx of new/traveling turkey hunters.   This is factual information and is undeniable.

So who and how much money is being made from the link in your first post?

We did not reveal any identification on the show as to the influencers being paid. I have personally confirmed payment was made in the state of TN and I know to whom. You are welcome to research this topic further, but the goal of the show is not to slander or put down anyone. It is to bring awareness to a situation in which states are taking away opportunities while paying to promote the very thing they are taking away. Hopefully the influencers will stop naming states and taking payment from states and hopefully the states will quit offering payment. It is a very bad thing for already declining turkey populations to experience this mass increase in pressure and harvest.

To confirm here is a couple quotes from the email I received from TWRA when I asked them about a specific influencer:

"Those influencer partnerships are something that we do to drive R3!"

"The money to fund those influencers comes from the selling of the hard cards"

"I work with them to pursue the right influencers and get content created and posted."

This comes straight from TWRA.

[arkrem870]

Spin it anyway you'd like......but the numbers don't lie. You can argue with them all day but you'll be wrong. YouTube pimping of public land has had DIRECT negatives on wild turkeys and wild turkey hunters as regulations/restrictions are made to combat the influx of new/traveling turkey hunters.   This is factual information and is undeniable.

So who and how much money is being made from the link in your first post?

It was posted to further support what many of us have been concerned about for several years. As a avid turkey hunter that has traveled across the US extensively for 20 years and hunted turkeys for 30+ We started to see issues arise connected to these YouTube programs. What we suspected has come to fruition and is further threatening the resource/hunter opportunity through regulation ......among other things. Many of us have wildlife / state dnr/ etc backgrounds myself included.  We can stick our head in the sand and pretend the statistics provided do not prove anything but your lying to yourself.   I'm in no way shape form connected to anyone on this podcast ; any podcast, YouTube, social media bull s. I'm simply a avid turkey hunters that is very much concerned

[Jrkimbrough]

I think most of the Youtube guys are nice guys but come on!  Why are y'all the only ones denying the data?

Sure there are pockets of pristine wildness but a good majority of the bandwagon hunters are obviously gonna go to the easiest spots. There is no way you can honestly say Pinhoti, THP, etc have not increased the hunting pressure on public lands over the past few years.

I would love to hear Shane, Catman or Dave Owens do an interview with Andy and Cameron on this topic!

It was very interesting to hear Chubbs take on social media and hunting in the previous podcast. We all gotta take a step back every now and then and analyze our own actions and how it may negatively affect the wild turkey.


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[eggshell]

How many here on this thread still hunt the same and use the same equipment and accessories as the hunters of 50 years ago? We are evolving.

That would be me. For the most part I still use the same gear and style of hunting. Still using a regular old shotgun with bead sights and Remington nitro 3" magnums (I know they aren't old lead, but standard loads ). I will confess I only switched to a 12 ga. 47 years ago, I started with a 20 ga. pump. I carry one slate call and 2-3 mouth calls, no blinds or dekes. Yes, i was using mouth calls 49 years ago....I was one of the very early users. Got mine from Lew McClure, anyone know that name?

Ok I do wear real tree camo. I started out with brown pants and a green flannel shirt with an old army surplus field coat, which I still wear the same 50 year old coat on many hunts.

I have seen the evolution and I am not buying it's a higher life form

[Jimspur]

[quote author=WV Flopper link=topic=105262.msg1043193#msg1043193
Not trying to offend, and I am sorry if I offend you. But, I believe the you tubers are not the solution, or the problem. We are as a society evolving, this is the aftermath. Check yourself. How many here on this thread still hunt the same and use the same equipment and accessories as the hunters of 50 years ago? We are evolving. There will be bumps in the road.
[/quote]

I don't know if this was directed at me or not, but since I was the
previous poster, I'll assume it was. I'm not offended in the least, because
I agree with you. I don't know where you got the idea that I thought the
YouTubers were the solution or the problem. Maybe you need to go back
and read what I said in the first sentence of my post on the bottom of
page 6.

I only suggested them to do a podcast because all I ever hear on this
site is one side of the coin. Hope this doesn't offend anyone.

[fallhnt]

I don't believe YT is a problem. The only thing they could be blamed for is fanning popularity. Spring season is popular because you can hear em gobble. Not much to hunt in spring so let's go. For years I looked at state population numbers and thought, I should go here or there. It's not rocket science. Being an archery guy,states that had archery only seasons were high on the list. One state has a survey and always asks if the limit should be raised to four birds. I always answer no. Habit is the key. I see land turned into neighborhoods all the time. My buddy stopped hunting public in the early 90's in MO, he gained some good private and eventually saw a population decline their  too. IL and Iowa have draw hunts. And both states hold there own. Neither is what I would call a turkey state. The public I hunt in IL gets 1/3 of its population taken in spring,year after year. The habit is well managed along with pressure but you know mushroom hunters are constantly blowing hens off nests. Sounds like envy for some of you. Since IL allows crossguns in archery season, I've seen a huge increase of pressure on public ground in fall but only a few birds are killed by archery guys in fall. 5-10 birds on the ground I hunt,year after year and I count for two,year after year. NWTF has had a,Save the habitat save the hunt, campaign for years,maybe the do know something?


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[sasquatch1]

I don't believe YT is a problem. The only thing they could be blamed for is fanning popularity. Spring season is popular because you can hear em gobble. Not much to hunt in spring so let's go. For years I looked at state population numbers and thought, I should go here or there. It's not rocket science. Being an archery guy,states that had archery only seasons were high on the list. One state has a survey and always asks if the limit should be raised to four birds. I always answer no. Habit is the key. I see land turned into neighborhoods all the time. My buddy stopped hunting public in the early 90's in MO, he gained some good private and eventually saw a population decline their  too. IL and Iowa have draw hunts. And both states hold there own. Neither is what I would call a turkey state. The public I hunt in IL gets 1/3 of its population taken in spring,year after year. The habit is well managed along with pressure but you know mushroom hunters are constantly blowing hens off nests. Sounds like envy for some of you. Since IL allows crossguns in archery season, I've seen a huge increase of pressure on public ground in fall but only a few birds are killed by archery guys in fall. 5-10 birds on the ground I hunt,year after year and I count for two,year after year. NWTF has had a,Save the habitat save the hunt, campaign for years,maybe the do know something?


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The info always was out there IF, and a huge IF, you were a hardcore deep rooted hunter.

That's not what these bandwagon guys are!! They ONLY took interest after the easiness was shown to them.

That is the issue here and the difference.

Those type of guys didn't want it bad enough to ever do deep research and strike out on a blind trek. A trek that easily ends in nothing more than learning where not to go!!!

It's easy to put it in an example. I took interest in trying to elk hunt 6 years ago. Nobody wanted to go. I went solo and struck out archery hunting. I didn't care, if anything I then wanted it MORE. Went the following year, still no takers. Went solo again and killed a stud bull.

As soon as word around my home town got out I all of a sudden had a lot of friends saying "I'd like to go with you". Where were they on this first two trips??? The ones where I was traveling blind??? NOWHERE.

Those videos are doing that for people ten fold!


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[Jrkimbrough]

I don't believe YT is a problem. The only thing they could be blamed for is fanning popularity. Spring season is popular because you can hear em gobble. Not much to hunt in spring so let's go. For years I looked at state population numbers and thought, I should go here or there. It's not rocket science. Being an archery guy,states that had archery only seasons were high on the list. One state has a survey and always asks if the limit should be raised to four birds. I always answer no. Habit is the key. I see land turned into neighborhoods all the time. My buddy stopped hunting public in the early 90's in MO, he gained some good private and eventually saw a population decline their  too. IL and Iowa have draw hunts. And both states hold there own. Neither is what I would call a turkey state. The public I hunt in IL gets 1/3 of its population taken in spring,year after year. The habit is well managed along with pressure but you know mushroom hunters are constantly blowing hens off nests. Sounds like envy for some of you. Since IL allows crossguns in archery season, I've seen a huge increase of pressure on public ground in fall but only a few birds are killed by archery guys in fall. 5-10 birds on the ground I hunt,year after year and I count for two,year after year. NWTF has had a,Save the habitat save the hunt, campaign for years,maybe the do know something?


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The info always was out there IF, and a huge IF, you were a hardcore deep rooted hunter.

That's not what these bandwagon guys are!! They ONLY took interest after the easiness was shown to them.

That is the issue here and the difference.

Those type of guys didn't want it bad enough to ever do deep research and strike out on a blind trek. A trek that easily ends in nothing more than learning where not to go!!!

It's easy to put it in an example. I took interest in trying to elk hunt 6 years ago. Nobody wanted to go. I went solo and struck out archery hunting. I didn't care, if anything I then wanted it MORE. Went the following year, still no takers. Went solo again and killed a stud bull.

As soon as word around my home town got out I all of a sudden had a lot of friends saying "I'd like to go with you". Where were they on this first two trips??? The ones where I was traveling blind??? NOWHERE.

Those videos are doing that for people ten fold!


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Exactly!


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[Jimspur]

The info always was out there IF, and a huge IF, you were a hardcore deep rooted hunter.

That's not what these bandwagon guys are!! They ONLY took interest after the easiness was shown to them.

That is the issue here and the difference.

Those type of guys didn't want it bad enough to ever do deep research and strike out on a blind trek. A trek that easily ends in nothing more than learning where not to go!!!

It's easy to put it in an example. I took interest in trying to elk hunt 6 years ago. Nobody wanted to go. I went solo and struck out archery hunting. I didn't care, if anything I then wanted it MORE. Went the following year, still no takers. Went solo again and killed a stud bull.

As soon as word around my home town got out I all of a sudden had a lot of friends saying "I'd like to go with you". Where were they on this first two trips??? The ones where I was traveling blind??? NOWHERE.

Those videos are doing that for people ten fold!


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[/quote]


You're spot on with your assessment, but there's one more thing I'd like
to add to your comments. The other thing that made it so much easier
for all these folks to go are these mapping apps.

It used to be people stayed close to roads or certain terrain features for
fear of getting lost. I learned to use topo map and compass 40 years ago.
Most times it was hard to find where you wanted to park, let alone where
you wanted to hunt. Now you just "drop a pin" and you're phone will
guide you to your parking spot, and then guide you to where you want
to be at first light. No need to learn how to use a map and compass.

Everybody's an instant Daniel Boone without the effort of actually
driving to a place that has the topo maps, poring over those maps,
and then figuring out which ones to buy.

I've been using GAIA GPS for 2 years now and it makes
everything so much easier for a traveling turkey hunter.
IMO this has as much to do with increased numbers of traveling hunters
as anything else.

It's the way of the world - technology makes everything easier and
it's not going away.