The numbers don’t lie

[TurkeyReaper69]

I think there's something we all can agree on: In your chosen hunting area a bird gobbles. 1) You are the only one to hear that bird and position on him to call. 2) Five other guys hear him and do the same. You're some kind of idiot if you choose scenario 2. Increased hunting pressure whether it be due to YouTube, FB, Instagram, word of mouth...and forums such as this...or whatever, taxes the resource...whether private or public ground. The resource can only take so much "taxation". Plus the "art" of turkey hunting has been so publicized and commercialized that any novice with some woodsmanship skills can hit the woods running. Back in the day it took a decent hunter several years to become a good turkey hunter. It ere what it ere...no going back.

This is one of the best if not the best reply of this thread. It's definitely not just the YouTube boys, they just happen to be the whipping boys at the moment. Social media as a whole is responsible for the out of control snowball effect that we are seeing. With no apparent way to stop it. We have all used it for gain and it has backfired on us!
I also think states running full page advertisements in magazines was a poor idea on their part. I feel they do it for monetary gain with little or no regard for the resource. I know for certain Nebraska, Kansas, and Mississippi has advertised their turkey hunting and I'm sure there are others. Mississippi used to run a full page ad in the Louisiana Sportsman magazine every year around February and open their season up 2 weeks before any state with the exception of Florida. Wonder why they do that?

I would like to ask a question. Does anyone think we would still be seeing the population decline we are seeing IF social media lets just say never was invented? Or our we still gonna blame lack of trapping?


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I'm sure there would be highs and lows in the population every few years just like it was since the day time began in all species from dinosaurs to monkeys to turkeys. But, without social media turkey hunting would've never hit the mainstream. Nor would biologists or "popular" hunters have a platform to reach hundreds of thousands of folks to spread fear about population decline. I can't speak for everyone, but I can say in my neck of the woods I haven't seen a population decrease in the past few years. Now I'm sure someone whose been hunting Southern MO or Northern AR since the 90s feels differently. I have seen a hunter increase and the quality of the hunt decrease. Many of the hunters I encounter now are new to the game who were traditional duck hunters who wanted to hunt a few more months a year. So to answer your question, i don't know. But it's obvious it increases the amount of hunters in woods. Especially with this public land craze I've witnessed the last few seasons.

[cwedding]

I just received email confirmation that the state of Georgia is also paying an influencer to promote turkey and deer hunting in that state or to quote the email, "spread awareness of Georgia Hunting." The state is using funds from the sales of Hard Card Licenses in Georgia to pay the influencer, meaning hunters are essentially paying for it.

Keep in mind - public land turkey hunters in Georgia just went from an opening date of March 20 to April 10. This is a loss of 3 weeks of turkey hunting for hunters. The state also reduced the bag limit and added some very popular WMAs to their quota system. The reasoning behind this and I quote:

"southeastern states have seen noticeable declines in turkey populations"

"Because hunting pressure is greater on public lands"

Declining population, increasing pressure, and the state is paying to spread awareness? These do not add up.

[guesswho]

Putting a fire out with gas, great plan!

[GobbleNut]

Putting a fire out with gas, great plan!

It's all about the dollars,...and no cents (sense)...   

[TurkeyReaper69]

I just received email confirmation that the state of Georgia is also paying an influencer to promote turkey and deer hunting in that state or to quote the email, "spread awareness of Georgia Hunting." The state is using funds from the sales of Hard Card Licenses in Georgia to pay the influencer, meaning hunters are essentially paying for it.

Keep in mind - public land turkey hunters in Georgia just went from an opening date of March 20 to April 10. This is a loss of 3 weeks of turkey hunting for hunters. The state also reduced the bag limit and added some very popular WMAs to their quota system. The reasoning behind this and I quote:

"southeastern states have seen noticeable declines in turkey populations"

"Because hunting pressure is greater on public lands"

Declining population, increasing pressure, and the state is paying to spread awareness? These do not add up.

Sickening. Limiting opportunity while paying folks to exploit opportunity! Gosh dang it! How the heck does it make any sense. I don't give a damn if they didn't pay with tax payer dollars. That Money from
The hard cards could've gone to something more useful than Zachs hair pomade or the new interns conversion therapy.

[Jimspur]

It adds up perfectly for me - they pretend to care about the resource,
but are addicted to the NR money.

[El Pavo Grande]

The #1 Problem with this scenario..... The majority of "turkey" hunters have their head in the sand.  Either they don't care and only think of turkey and turkey hunting when it's convenient, refuse to recognize it, or even defend this all in the name of hunter recruitment.   Again, I can't understand something supposedly in the name of hunter recruitment playing a major role in reducing hunter opportunity, which in the long run will reduce hunter recruitment.  Someone please explain if I'm wrong.  I'm still waiting on the answer to my other question but it's been nothing but crickets.  Until enough hunters stand up and voice concerns it will only get worse. 

I've never been one to blame state agencies for the declines.  Sure, they could make better decisions at times, but they can only influence the reproduction of turkeys so much.  Hunters, landowners, timber companies, farmers, USFS, Mother Nature, etc..... many other factors.  But, in cases such as these they need to own the burden of the blame. 

[eggshell]

I just had a brilliant idea, let's declare turkeys a public menace and kill them all. when we've extirpated them wildlife agencies will no longer have to worry about us troublesome turkey hunters and they can spend the money on office parties. Oh wait, no hunters equals no money, oh well Uncle Joe in the big house will executive order them some. 

Idiocy seems to be the theme of government management anymore. For years we insisted our youth get a college education, but we never bothered to do something about the liberal socialist agenda being pushed in our universities. This is "woke" wildlife management. The pendulum swings right to left and back again, how far it swings is a matter of what is in it's way. If we don't resist we shouldn't complain how far it goes. Our voice is never louder then when we vote. I became disappointed in both the NRA and NWTF, but this may well be the time we need a unified voice. If all who dropped off would rejoin and insist on better management we could be a feared voice again, Or find a new organization. It appears to me they don't listen to their constituents as much anymore in our state and Federal government. They all want to be the next messiah of man-kind. I have bad news for them, there is only one God and it ain't them.   

[Tail Feathers]

Sounds like GA has the game department doing one thing on one hand, and someone in the tourism end doing something else on the other.  They really should communicate more.

[greencop01]

                                                                                                                  

[SD_smith]

I appreciate that. But I think the point of view that YouTube, social media, internet is destroying everything is very short sighted. Does it have an impact? Sure it does, I feel it's very minimal.

Numbers are down for turkeys. I don't feel hunting is causing this.

Loss of habitat or access to hunting grounds has been hugh in the last 30 years. Can't be over stated. Then the internet shows people where they can hunt. This is what people are really angry about. Don't  tell or show people where I hunt. Too late, there aren't any secrets anymore.

Predator is number contributor to low #'s as far as I can see. As stated endlessly on OG no one traps anymore. Coyotes are everywhere. So are raptors.

Raptors is the most overlooked cause of low turkey numbers, IMO. One reason the transplanting or stocking of turkeys was so successful in 90's was the absence of raptors. DDT decimated hawks and eagles. But like turkeys we restored the raptor population in the environment. This one is something we can't ever change.

Also the standard of living has been increasing. People have way more disposal income. In 1981 only people with money got on a plane to fly, for any reason. If some one went out west to hunt, they drove, it was a once in a life time trip. Now people get on a plane with their expensive tricked out gear and fly to hunt every year.

Fishing, hunting, hiking, camping is all getting over run with people. Because the population has been increasing and access is decreasing. We're all going to just have to deal with it.

Must not be paying attention to all the trucks with Pinhoti stickers on the back windows with mountain bikes in the bed down in South Florida. The hunter pressure was high 5 years ago, but now it's ridiculous. Minimal impact though...


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[Chase0311]

^ Agreed. If you've hunted public in south Florida or Tennessee or even Mississippi prior to the YouTube era till now, there's no denying the damage it has caused. YouTubers are laughing all the way to the bank, while telling those naive enough to believe it that they are doing it in the name of 'hunter recruitment' and it's fine.

[Crghss]

Must not be paying attention to all the trucks with Pinhoti stickers on the back windows with mountain bikes in the bed down in South Florida. The hunter pressure was high 5 years ago, but now it's ridiculous. Minimal impact though...

In all my years of hunting south Florida public land I've never seen a Pinhoti sticker on a truck.

Think going from 15 million to 21 million people in the last 10 years might have something to do with it?

In addition to almost no private land available since everyone leases now.

Websites like this one and Florida Sportsman have WAY more impact in increasing hunter numbers then youtubers. Everyone's gotta get there Osceola.

[Spurs Up]

Must not be paying attention to all the trucks with Pinhoti stickers on the back windows with mountain bikes in the bed down in South Florida. The hunter pressure was high 5 years ago, but now it's ridiculous. Minimal impact though...

In all my years of hunting south Florida public land I've never seen a Pinhoti sticker on a truck.

Think going from 15 million to 21 million people in the last 10 years might have something to do with it?

In addition to almost no private land available since everyone leases now.

Websites like this one and Florida Sportsman have WAY more impact in increasing hunter numbers then youtubers. Everyone's gotta get there Osceola.

I read in another thread that the number of turkey hunting licenses sold to people who live in Florida has been declining. At the same time, sales to out of state hunters has increased. Maybe they are losing places to hunt on private land and crowding onto public, but the recent increase there and elsewhere sure coincides with YouTube popularity.

[Crghss]

I read in another thread that the number of turkey hunting licenses sold to people who live in Florida has been declining. At the same time, sales to out of state hunters has increased. Maybe they are losing places to hunt on private land and crowding onto public, but the recent increase there and elsewhere sure coincides with YouTube popularity.

I don't know this to be true. I think we have modest hunting license sale increases every year, but as a percentage of population it is decreasing. We have millions of people move here every year.

And we don't have much open public land to hunt in the southern part. Most is controlled by quotas. So it  is harder to get a permit but there aren't more hunters out there.

I hunt the non-permit WMA's. It's crazy, most don't come back. Took me a few years of trying till I settled in. And now with the explosion of ATV it's really nuts.

IMHO, NR licenses are increasing because everyone wants a slam. "Guides" lease land and sell hunts. But  there aren't huge numbers of NR hunters. The only thing a NR would want to hunt in FL is turkey. Nothing else.