Turkey Decline,...What would you do?

[GobbleNut]

Since we are "whiling away" the dog days of summer....
We have been hammering on turkey numbers going down, hunter numbers going up, the impacts of modern hunting methods, and social media.  So, if you were in charge in your state, what would you do relating to hunting regulations?  (Keep in mind that we are not talking about factors outside of hunting that are the REAL culprits,...i.e...reproductive failure due to the myriad factors we have discussed previously)

I'll start.  (focusing on spring gobbler season here)

Although I do not believe there is an immediate concern for changing our spring hunt regulations here, I am somewhat concerned with hunter-number increases and corresponding harvest increases.  If these trends continue and we begin to see significant declines in gobbler numbers, these would be the changes I would like to see implemented here:

Currently, our season dates are April 15th to May 10th every year.  I would not change these dates.  Breeding has been under way for at least a couple of weeks before the season starts and the season length is more than adequate.  Shotguns and bows only,...no rifles.

Currently, the bag limit is two-gobblers, both of which can be shot on the same day.  I would immediately implement a one-gobbler-a-day regulation (have recommended this since day one) and two per season.  If trends were to continue downward, I would go to a one-bird season limit in a heartbeat, although I would be inclined to try a split-season bag limit first (i.e...one gobbler in the first two weeks and one more in the last two weeks,...or something similar).  Another option would be to go to "zone management" with one-bird limits in each.

Currently, roost shooting is not illegal (it used to be but our Game Department inexplicably removed that regulation a couple of years ago).  I would immediately reinstate the regulation against roost shooting. 

IF gobbler numbers continued downward, my final solution would be to go to limited-permit hunting with all permits allotted through a draw, and with the state broken down into zones based on regional turkey population estimates.  Nonresidents would be restricted to a small percentage (10%+/-) of the permits in the initial draw with additional opportunity if there were permits left over.   

Regarding our fall season, as of now, I don't believe we have enough fall hunters or harvest to warrant any changes,...but again, I am keeping my eye on our turkey population trends and would reduce fall hunting/harvest in a heartbeat if needed.   

[PalmettoRon]

AZ is 1 bird and requires being drawn with 10% of the tags allocated to NR. NM as you know is 2 tags over the counter. If I lived in either state, I would prefer the NM model of 2 tags OTC, but dating back to 1991, I've hunted both states often on the same trip and I will say IMO, that AZ is a much better calibre hunt. All my hunting has been DIY on NF land.

[hotspur]

One of my best areas was levels by a hurricane . This area had a rising population, I have killed se real gobblers in this area. This year I called a gobbler in and let him walk . I harvested 1 gobbler this year.  I did not go out of state. The one gobbler I killed was on ground with a rebounding population. Turkey numbers are rising in this limited access area.

[Greg Massey]

We just decreased our spring bag limited, so i will wait and see how this all pan's out... WE didn't have as many people turkey hunting this pass spring as we did the Covid spring..

[Happy]

Most likely I would go with one bird a day, two bird per season limit. In areas that are struggling I would allow blinds and decoys only by special permit for the physically handicapped. No rifles or roost shooting as well as a ban on fanning. Hunting hours from daylight to 1pm.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Tail Feathers]

If I recall correctly, AL banned decoys for the first week or two of season.  Banning dekes or male turkey decoys as some have suggested may lower the success rate.  The one thing in harvests I've noticed is an increase in success rate since gobbler/jake decoys have seen a big rise in popularity.
I like that AL implemented it for a limited part of the season so they can study the effects.
Whether it's better calls, better shells, the sheer number of hunters, or even better hunters who travel a lot, I think the harvest rate plays into the shortage of birds we are experiencing. 
I agree with Gobblenut on most every point except maybe his season could be set back a week.  Limiting birds by day or week of season will lower harvests or as OK partially did, lower the limit by county, WMA or even regions.
You could go the Texas route, most land is private and they charge the snot outta folks to hunt it and limit them to two birds at that.  I live in the part of Texas with Easterns, our limit has never been more than one.

[RutnNStrutn]

The most sensible solution is banning stupid harvest methods. No rifle or pistol hunting of turkeys. Definitely no roost shooting. Who does this anyway, and why would states allow this?
If that doesn't help the problem, go after issues that obviously impact turkey populations. No hen harvests, in fall or spring. No Jake harvests either. This will immediately be beneficial to turkey populations. More hens mean more breeding, and more jakes lead to more gobblers the following season, which also means more breeding.
If that still doesn't achieve the desired results, then a reduction in the bag limits is a must!! Cut the bag limit to 2, or 1.
Another idea that has merit is limiting the harvest in the early season when a lot of the breeding is being done. SC currently limits a hunter to one gobbler in the 1st ten days. Personally I would increase that to 2 weeks. This also limits non-resident harvests, since most guys only travel to a state on one trip.
I don't think banning select hunting techniques would have much effect. I don't think fanning, for example, is done that much, or results in a large number of harvests.
If none of the techniques I mentioned above achieved the desired results of a turkey population rebound, then I would take drastic measures.
First I would encourage predator hunting. I would make it legal year round by any technique for all turkey or turkey nest predators, other than poison. In SC the DNR releases 1 tagged coyote a year in each of the state's 4 game zones. Any hunter who bags a tagged coyote gets a free lifetime hunting license. This encourages hunters to shoot every coyote they see.
Next, if none of that achieved the desired results, I would use the method that would be highly unpopular, but surely effective. I would put a one year moratorium on hunting turkeys. That would surely make the population rebound. It might even take 2 years.
On a side note, eliminating rifle and pistol hunting, roost shooting, jake and hen harvests, and moratoriums on turkey hunting would surely reduce the number of turkey "hunters" in the woods, which would reduce the harvests and help the populations.
What do y'all think of those ideas?  

Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.

[hotspur]

The most sensible solution is banning stupid harvest methods. No rifle or pistol hunting of turkeys. Definitely no roost shooting. Who does this anyway, and why would states allow this?
If that doesn't help the problem, go after issues that obviously impact turkey populations. No hen harvests, in fall or spring. No Jake harvests either. This will immediately be beneficial to turkey populations. More hens mean more breeding, and more jakes lead to more gobblers the following season, which also means more breeding.
If that still doesn't achieve the desired results, then a reduction in the bag limits is a must!! Cut the bag limit to 2, or 1.
Another idea that has merit is limiting the harvest in the early season when a lot of the breeding is being done. SC currently limits a hunter to one gobbler in the 1st ten days. Personally I would increase that to 2 weeks. This also limits non-resident harvests, since most guys only travel to a state on one trip.
I don't think banning select hunting techniques would have much effect. I don't think fanning, for example, is done that much, or results in a large number of harvests.
If none of the techniques I mentioned above achieved the desired results of a turkey population rebound, then I would take drastic measures.
First I would encourage predator hunting. I would make it legal year round by any technique for all turkey or turkey nest predators, other than poison. In SC the DNR releases 1 tagged coyote a year in each of the state's 4 game zones. Any hunter who bags a tagged coyote gets a free lifetime hunting license. This encourages hunters to shoot every coyote they see.
Next, if none of that achieved the desired results, I would use the method that would be highly unpopular, but surely effective. I would put a one year moratorium on hunting turkeys. That would surely make the population rebound. It might even take 2 years.
On a side note, eliminating rifle and pistol hunting, roost shooting, jake and hen harvests, and moratoriums on turkey hunting would surely reduce the number of turkey "hunters" in the woods, which would reduce the harvests and help the populations.
What do y'all think of those ideas?

Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.

I totally agree on predator hunting , I think the lack of trapping and more corn feeders on the landscape = more raccoons than in the 80 s

[quavers59]

   I think New Jersey should have a Spring Gobbler Bag Limit of 3 Gobblers Max.
   

[Jim K]

I'm in PA. I would eliminate the second tag first. Then close the fall season next. Jakes for kids only.

Personally, I've done those things myself already.

[falltoms]

I'd be focused on promoting trapping furbearers, cause the fur market sucks right now. And it's showing the effects it has on our turkey population.

[guesswho]

I can't tell you on a internet forum what I do, I mean would do.

[WV Flopper]

1st off, Thank you GobbleNut for appointing me, Director of the WVDNR. Thank you!

Season would start at the traditional time of 3rd Monday in April, and run 4 full weeks. Good bye early week!

Rewards for prosecuted poachers would be raised, alot, and vary with the severity of the offenses. Fines for poached turkeys would be substantial, per offense, and mandatory. Loss of hunting privilege for poaching of turkey.

I would hand pick three Analyst to review the last 21 years of harvest data for wild turkey. I want year, month, day, county, and region of all turkeys that were killed. Including fall harvests. I also want to know of the turkeys harvested how many hunters harvested 2 turkeys in WV in one season, Tagged out.

This information will give the obvious, plus confirm or deny a growing hunter population. My state did not in the past, have a turkey permit, now we do "Thank you new Director" . Minimal amount, 10$ per tag. Purchased one at a time, second tag only after first turkey checked in. This does not promote a hunter to fill a tag on a jake last day of season.

If it were documented that hunter numbers were increasing, a serious look at bag limits would have to be looked at. Currently, we have a two male turkey limit in the spring. I am not sure what it is in the fall. It varies per region I think, currently.

If data shows a decline in harvest in a region (Multiple counties per Region) for three consecutive years fall turkey hunting would be by lottery permit. I would have to appoint some one to come up with an appropriate number of permits per Region. I would like to reduce my hen harvest by 75% after the 3 year consecutive decline.

If after 3 years of my Lottery has not changed the population to the better, a reduction in the Region of the spring bag limits would be needed, reduced to 1.

If this hasn't helped, reduction of season length may need to be looked at. Hard to do this per Region as I feal it will displace hunters to an adjacent Region and impact the harvest of that Region negatively.

If after 3 more years the population has not increased the Region is CLOSED to ALL turkey harvesting. Again, hard to do this as it would most certainly displace turkey hunters to an adjacent Region and poaching would increase in the Region I am trying to protect.

Concurrently while these items are taking place I am using my 10$ permit fees to promote predator control. Bounties have been done by many states and parties for a long time. They are very corrupt and easily taken advantage of. Mostly, they do not work. But, for resident licensed hunters and trappers we could put a monetary value on predators towards license fees or in the form of gift cards. But, no cash paid. To expand on this, as a hobby trapper I can say there is NO value in fur today with today's market. But, the DNR adding a 3$ value to a coon would raise the value of that coon to somewhere around 7$. That's not a good average, but it's better than 4$ if catching hundreds of coon. We would do this for skunk, possum as well. Exploring if fox, cat, coyote would make a significant difference, they could be added as well.

This as Director is what I can do immediately. I can also hire new Biologists to help in research of mortality and nesting success. The Biologist can also research the weather trends for the past years so we can have a base line so as what to expect out of future harvests.

In my mind there is not a quick fix to this situation. Some states may already be beyond my first few steps. They may need a more hard fast attack at this problem.

This is as we all know, is a multi facet problem. Some of it we can not control, but at a minimum, learn what to expect. Many states have already found the correlation between weather, nesting, and poult survival. They should know what to expect for the year concerning poult survival due to weather.

[bossgobbler]

Open up unlimited trapping of coons and other nest raiders all year long.

Open up bobcat season. They are plentiful. We need a season for them.

I would completely eliminate the ability to shoot any hens at any time of year.  Let the hens go! Allowing hens to be shot has to have a negative impact on turkey populations.

I would make the limit one adult gobbler for anyone over 16. One male turkey, jake or tom, for kids under 16.

[Jimspur]

1st off, Thank you GobbleNut for appointing me, Director of the WVDNR. Thank you!

Season would start at the traditional time of 3rd Monday in April, and run 4 full weeks. Good bye early week!

Rewards for prosecuted poachers would be raised, alot, and vary with the severity of the offenses. Fines for poached turkeys would be substantial, per offense, and mandatory. Loss of hunting privilege for poaching of turkey.

I would hand pick three Analyst to review the last 21 years of harvest data for wild turkey. I want year, month, day, county, and region of all turkeys that were killed. Including fall harvests. I also want to know of the turkeys harvested how many hunters harvested 2 turkeys in WV in one season, Tagged out.

This information will give the obvious, plus confirm or deny a growing hunter population. My state did not in the past, have a turkey permit, now we do "Thank you new Director" . Minimal amount, 10$ per tag. Purchased one at a time, second tag only after first turkey checked in. This does not promote a hunter to fill a tag on a jake last day of season.

If it were documented that hunter numbers were increasing, a serious look at bag limits would have to be looked at. Currently, we have a two male turkey limit in the spring. I am not sure what it is in the fall. It varies per region I think, currently.

If data shows a decline in harvest in a region (Multiple counties per Region) for three consecutive years fall turkey hunting would be by lottery permit. I would have to appoint some one to come up with an appropriate number of permits per Region. I would like to reduce my hen harvest by 75% after the 3 year consecutive decline.

If after 3 years of my Lottery has not changed the population to the better, a reduction in the Region of the spring bag limits would be needed, reduced to 1.

If this hasn't helped, reduction of season length may need to be looked at. Hard to do this per Region as I feal it will displace hunters to an adjacent Region and impact the harvest of that Region negatively.

If after 3 more years the population has not increased the Region is CLOSED to ALL turkey harvesting. Again, hard to do this as it would most certainly displace turkey hunters to an adjacent Region and poaching would increase in the Region I am trying to protect.

Concurrently while these items are taking place I am using my 10$ permit fees to promote predator control. Bounties have been done by many states and parties for a long time. They are very corrupt and easily taken advantage of. Mostly, they do not work. But, for resident licensed hunters and trappers we could put a monetary value on predators towards license fees or in the form of gift cards. But, no cash paid. To expand on this, as a hobby trapper I can say there is NO value in fur today with today's market. But, the DNR adding a 3$ value to a coon would raise the value of that coon to somewhere around 7$. That's not a good average, but it's better than 4$ if catching hundreds of coon. We would do this for skunk, possum as well. Exploring if fox, cat, coyote would make a significant difference, they could be added as well.

This as Director is what I can do immediately. I can also hire new Biologists to help in research of mortality and nesting success. The Biologist can also research the weather trends for the past years so we can have a base line so as what to expect out of future harvests.

In my mind there is not a quick fix to this situation. Some states may already be beyond my first few steps. They may need a more hard fast attack at this problem.

This is as we all know, is a multi facet problem. Some of it we can not control, but at a minimum, learn what to expect. Many states have already found the correlation between weather, nesting, and poult survival. They should know what to expect for the year concerning poult survival due to weather.

WV - I can't believe you didn't drop the rifles being legal.
I've seen more than one bird in WV killed by a .270 Turkey Express!