Halloran Calls - what's the difference?

[HookedonHooks]

Being a CAD guy who occasionally dabbles with CAM, I laugh at some of the remarks made regarding calls made by CNC vs hand made. The same people who talk down on CNC-made turkey calls will likely brag about the fit and finish on their $1200 CNC-made shotguns. I get that you like what you like but seems awful ironic at the same time...

Wouldn't it be safe to assume the aluminums and steels used in the CNCs have much less natural variation in the raw materials of the shotgun than say the wood used for a pot call? Bottom line, that's the reason CNC pots aren't as good as full custom pots, natural variation of wood. Pretty horrible comparison, in fact a comical one at best.

Since we're going there though, the old "mythical" Bottomland, Greenleaf, and Treebark 870's and 1187's are not even close in the quality of newer 870's and 1187's that have since been made with the aid of CNC. In fact those newer guns in which CNC were used are far WORSE than their predecessors. Similar to the gripe of many on Halloran's calls. Not saying the CNC is the issue in both cases but an interesting correlation, correct?

Seems to me the irony is someone who thinks people griping about CNC calls are off base, when they are the one off base. Again Halloran's calls aren't bad, just gonna put that out there one more time.

[Jbird22]

Being a CAD guy who occasionally dabbles with CAM, I laugh at some of the remarks made regarding calls made by CNC vs hand made. The same people who talk down on CNC-made turkey calls will likely brag about the fit and finish on their $1200 CNC-made shotguns. I get that you like what you like but seems awful ironic at the same time...

Wouldn't it be safe to assume the aluminums and steels used in the CNCs have much less natural variation in the raw materials of the shotgun than say the wood used for a pot call? Bottom line, that's the reason CNC pots aren't as good as full custom pots, natural variation of wood. Pretty horrible comparison, in fact a comical one at best.

Since we're going there though, the old "mythical" Bottomland, Greenleaf, and Treebark 870's and 1187's are not even close in the quality of newer 870's and 1187's that have since been made with the aid of CNC. In fact those newer guns in which CNC were used are far WORSE than their predecessors. Similar to the gripe of many on Halloran's calls. Not saying the CNC is the issue in both cases but an interesting correlation, correct?

Seems to me the irony is someone who thinks people griping about CNC calls are off base, when they are the one off base. Again Halloran's calls aren't bad, just gonna put that out there one more time.

Natural variation in wood will exist regardless of the tools used to manufacture the call, correct? The tool's job, whether CNC or manual, is to remove material, not to recognize variations in wood. If you're saying he's just making pots on the CNC machines without checking each one for quality then that's a quality control issue, not a CNC issue. 

Not sure where the 870 argument came from as I said $1200 shotgun. That's geared more toward the higher end guns like Benelli/Retay/etc... Don't forget the red dots and rails/mounts. Nobody ever seems to have a problem with them being made on CNC machines. (BTW, we both know the "mythical" 870's you mentioned are only "mythical" due to their camo patterns. I have a black syn SP Turkey 870 that was made the yr prior to the Greenleaf 870 SP Turkey being made. It's the same exact gun, minus the camo, and it wouldn't fetch remotely as much its Greenleaf brother. I own 3 newer 870's than the SP and they all function exactly the same. The aesthetics aren't as pleasing but the cost went down so something had to be sacrificed.)

I guess you'd have to do what I do for a living to understand my point of view. Either way, it's your money. Buy what you want and hunt with what you want.

[HookedonHooks]

Natural variation in wood will exist regardless of the tools used to manufacture the call, correct? The tool's job, whether CNC or manual, is to remove material, not to recognize variations in wood. If you're saying he's just making pots on the CNC machines without checking each one for quality then that's a quality control issue, not a CNC issue. 

You answered your own question. The CNC can not recognize natural variation, and therefore does only what it was told to do. A human working a lathe can see variation in each piece of wood he is working his tool to as he slows his process down and takes time with each one. They have specs/measurements they're trying to get to for their call but will make minor adjustments between pieces that the the CNC would just plug for the whole run.

It's only a quality control issue because the CNC was used in the first place, and the less hand work put into each call the bar was diminished to a "good enough" level to where the CNC can hit that most times. The quality control at David's level or say Woodhaven is very cut and dry. A call is totally dead and gets pitched or it's "good enough" and gets packed up. Anyone would be crazy to think calls entered into comps or given to friends from these guys weren't given extra attention.

[rodney gillikin]

I use a lathe to make my call and the other day i didn't do a good job the the wood variation because that sucker came apart, after a couple hours of rest on the floor [knockout]  I didn't need any Band-Aids blood was all dried up cross my forehead ,neck, shoulder and chest. That sucker is quick, lol. 

[ChesterCopperpot]

I use a lathe to make my call and the other day i didn't do a good job the the wood variation because that sucker came apart, after a couple hours of rest on the floor [knockout]  I didn't need any Band-Aids blood was all dried up cross my forehead ,neck, shoulder and chest. That sucker is quick, lol. 

Dang, buddy, I'm glad you're okay! Had a friend turning a large piece of wood for some furniture and the whole piece came flying out and busted the wall. If it'd hit him it likely would've killed him. Definitely nothing to play around with.


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[Jbird22]

Natural variation in wood will exist regardless of the tools used to manufacture the call, correct? The tool's job, whether CNC or manual, is to remove material, not to recognize variations in wood. If you're saying he's just making pots on the CNC machines without checking each one for quality then that's a quality control issue, not a CNC issue. 

You answered your own question. The CNC can not recognize natural variation, and therefore does only what it was told to do. A human working a lathe can see variation in each piece of wood he is working his tool to as he slows his process down and takes time with each one. They have specs/measurements they're trying to get to for their call but will make minor adjustments between pieces that the the CNC would just plug for the whole run.

It's only a quality control issue because the CNC was used in the first place, and the less hand work put into each call the bar was diminished to a "good enough" level to where the CNC can hit that most times. The quality control at David's level or say Woodhaven is very cut and dry. A call is totally dead and gets pitched or it's "good enough" and gets packed up. Anyone would be crazy to think calls entered into comps or given to friends from these guys weren't given extra attention.

Sorry, but I believe pot call makers try to achieve specific dimensions when making a call and don't stray from them due to perceived wood variations. If they analyze each blank individually and make dimension changes on the fly, then I have an even greater respect for their skills.

All things being completely identical (material and dimensions), you will not convince me that a CNC-made call will be inferior to one that's made by hand (band saw, lathe, drill press, router, etc...).

David had to make a decision that any custom call maker will face if they become that popular. He could either find a way to make more calls to keep up with demand or start a never-ending list and burn out before it's fulfilled. I believe his decision made far less people unhappy than the opposite decision would have.

[callmakerman]

When it's all said and done I'm left wondering why David's name needs to be dragged through the mud. He decided to build his calls a certain way to grow bigger and have his calls in the hands of more hunters because of their popularity.  Hunters buy them, hunt them and kill birds using them. How I or others view how he builds his calls is a moot point because he's been successful and has been accepted as a great call maker. Good for him. He followed a dream and made it happen and for that he gets my respect. Amazing how the same thing is done by a few top box call makers and nothing ever gets said about it. JMO

[letinmfly]

When it's all said and done I'm left wondering why David's name needs to be dragged through the mud. He decided to build his calls a certain way to grow bigger and have his calls in the hands of more hunters because of their popularity.  Hunters buy them, hunt them and kill birds using them. How I or others view how he builds his calls is a moot point because he's been successful and has been accepted as a great call maker. Good for him. He followed a dream and made it happen and for that he gets my respect. Amazing how the same thing is done by a few top box call makers and nothing ever gets said about it. JMO

Well said Bill!!

[mtns2hunt]

does anyone have his phone number, I bought his ceramic call and the playing surface cracked. I messaged them and they told me to send it back, its been 2 months and haven't heard anything and cant get a response to my messages and cant find a phone number

Must've blown up on his lathe 

I too had an issue with lack of response to my e-mails. Finally did get a response and the lady answering the e-mail made a good point. They are super busy this time of year and it was only the two of them. She was very apologetic. I should have realized that. Suggest you either e-mail again or call. I am sure someone on here has their number.

[bbcoach]

I use a lathe to make my call and the other day i didn't do a good job the the wood variation because that sucker came apart, after a couple hours of rest on the floor [knockout]  I didn't need any Band-Aids blood was all dried up cross my forehead ,neck, shoulder and chest. That sucker is quick, lol. 

Dang Rodney!  I told you not to give the wife any lip.  Sounds like your putting too much time in the shop!!!  BE SAFE!!!

[ugaDAWGS09]

I've killed 4 birds in the last 3 years, and all were killed using the CM.  It just has a great sound to it and the birds seem to love it.

[mtns2hunt]

I've killed 4 birds in the last 3 years, and all were killed using the CM.  It just has a great sound to it and the birds seem to love it.

I agree and I think the majority on this post also agree. I do not see this dicussion as dragging Mr Holloran's name through the mud. Good discussion only cements his reputation more as he is producing a top rate product. I currently have a CM and Metal mouth 2. If his box calls are as good I will have one of them also and will not worry about how or when it was made. I only care about its ability to speak turkey.

[Sir-diealot]

Once all this Covid stuff is over I hope to go to his shop, he only an hour and a half from me.

[ChesterCopperpot]

I've killed 4 birds in the last 3 years, and all were killed using the CM.  It just has a great sound to it and the birds seem to love it.

I agree and I think the majority on this post also agree. I do not see this dicussion as dragging Mr Holloran's name through the mud. Good discussion only cements his reputation more as he is producing a top rate product. I currently have a CM and Metal mouth 2. If his box calls are as good I will have one of them also and will not worry about how or when it was made. I only care about its ability to speak turkey.

I rarely hunt a box but when I do it's his ebony/walnut. I've got some other really nice boxes. An Albert Paul I love. A Shoemaker I wouldn't trade for the world. But that Halloran box is meeeeeeean!


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[vt35mag]

May not have to go back as far as stamped vs cnc calls, but could it be the older calls sounded better (or perceived to) have more to do with the quality of the slate used for the soundboard, and less to do with how the pot was cut?
I know people have commented about how the grey/black slate from PA isn't what it used to be, or isn't as consistent.

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