Call Shy?

[guesswho]

I have always heard of guys saying they love a 2 year old bird. Is that because they are easier to call in, than a 3 year old bird?
Does this mean the older a bird gets, the smarter it is, call smart?

People kill more two year olds than three or four year olds because there are more of them at the start of a season, thus the train of thought two year olds are easier.  I bet most of those three and four year olds they don't kill, are actually two year olds.

[guesswho]

Gobblenut, you got to quit staying at that Holiday Inn.

I think turkeys are NTWF shy.  I ain't never seen one around property that has a NWTF sign.

 
I knew it was just a matter of time, Ronnie!   

If I was a turkey I'd be pretty easy to kill

[gordongekko]

"to say that (a) tom will knowingly ignore turkey sounds is kind of silly"---quote

You're right, turkeys don't "ignore" anything.  What they do is respond to stimuli based on their learned experiences with those, or similar, stimuli.  If a gobbler approaches sounds that he expects are from another turkey, and he has a negative experience with it....i.e. he gets shot at, or otherwise gets the bejesus scared out of him,....he learns from that experience that perhaps he should be careful about approaching turkey sounds.  If he does it again, and survives, he learns a little more,...until he reaches a point where he will not approach turkey sounds. 

Yes, all turkeys hear turkey sounds every day of their lives.  They do not ignore them, but they will adapt behavior, based on their experiences with those sounds to try to insure their own survival.  To take it one step further, turkeys can learn to avoid turkey sounds and learn to avoid approaching other turkeys that they see (i.e.--turkey decoys) through the same learning process. 

In the end, some gobblers, if they want to have turkey companionship, will stand where they feel safe and wait for live turkey hens to come to them.  They will gobble and strut to turkey sounds in the distance, thinking perhaps those sounds are coming from a real, live turkey hen, but they will not closely approach those sounds.  If the turkey sounds approach them, and they do not see what they identify as a real, live turkey, they will eventually move away, possibly to another spot a safe distance away, and start the process over again.

Anybody here that has hunted lots of years on hard-hunted public (or private) lands has seen this behavior.  It is just a reality of animal behavior, nothing more...and nothing less.

Jim

Gobblenut, I have always thought it was a Gobbler's nature to let the hens come to him if he could?  Never thought of that as being call shy...just the ways older mature birds get after getting whipped a few times when they tried to sneak in on a hen that was with a dominant bird.....  I always thought turkey hunting was tough cause a lot of the time you're trying to get a Gobbler to go against his nature, meaning get him to come to a call rather than wait on a hen to come to him.  

Like I said earlier I always associate the term "call shy" as meaning they avoid, or retreat from calling...at least some some sort of avoidance.  But, I think your learning model means that a turkey has to associate the sound of a turkey call with the "BOOM" of a shotgun to make them retreat?  I mean, isn't there a slew of other things they could associate with the "BOOM" of a shotgun?  Of course the association is easy if every time they run to something that sounds like a hen they get shot at, how many birds really get shot at multiple times and live to tell the tale?  Still,  assuming they do learn to avoid the sounds, the critical question is how long to they retain what they learn?  I am just wondering really.

I am not saying you aren't right, I am just saying that I wonder if sometimes we, as hunters, don't give these birds a little too much credit for intelligence, and not enough for simply being suspicious of everything.

Another interesting point...ever notice that if you shoot and kill a bird in flock, sometimes the other toms, instead of running, will jump on him?

[guesswho]

just saying that I wonder if sometimes we, as hunters, don't give these birds a little too much credit for intelligence, and not enough for simply being suspicious of everything.

[shootumindaface]

 But, I think your learning model means that a turkey has to associate the sound of a turkey call with the "BOOM" of a shotgun to make them retreat?  I mean, isn't there a slew of other things they could associate with the "BOOM" of a shotgun?  Of course the association is easy if every time they run to something that sounds like a hen they get shot at, how many birds really get shot at multiple times and live to tell the tale?  Still,  assuming they do learn to avoid the sounds, the critical question is how long to they retain what they learn?  I am just wondering really.

Must not be real long.. Cant count the number of times I have called up a bachelor group whacked one while his buddy is standing close enough to feel the percussion and see the shot smacking his buddy in the face. Only to go to the same spot the next day and call up his buddie-s and whack them with the same call..

[GobbleNut]

just saying that I wonder if sometimes we, as hunters, don't give these birds a little too much credit for intelligence, and not enough for simply being suspicious of everything.

Then again, perhaps they are smarter than we think and can learn to associate danger with things that happen around them.  Could it be that we do not give them enough credit for having survival traits that could be referred to as "intelligence"?  Once again, scientific studies have shown conclusively that all sorts of animals can, indeed, adapt behavior than can be described as learned. 

Do I think that a gobbler hears a turkey call and consciously says to himself, "hmmm, that might be a hunter so I'm not going to go over there?" No.  I agree, that would be silly to think that.  What I do think is that any gobbler who experiences enough negative consequences from its actions will have an internal survival mechanism develop that keeps it from approaching whatever has caused that avoidance reaction.  It could be a turkey call, a coyote howl, the sound of a vehicle, or any sound that its instincts tell it that approaching those sounds might be harmful to it.

[guesswho]

just saying that I wonder if sometimes we, as hunters, don't give these birds a little too much credit for intelligence, and not enough for simply being suspicious of everything.

Could it be that we do not give them enough credit for having survival traits that could be referred to as "intelligence"?

Nah!  I'm sticking with the their ignorant theory.

[Gobblerstopper]

Just an excuse.

[ground control]

i think we're overthinking turkeys here. they do what they do to survive, nothing more, nothing less. they're just being a turkey. also, just a thought, have you ever noticed how jaybirds and crows and other critters throw a fit when they know you're there? they're like natures security system. other animals take note of that. like when an eagle flys over a lake with loons on it, the loons go crazy makin noise and incidentally other birds like ducks and geese pay attention. combine that with the natural stress of breeding, fighting, and evading and eventually they learn a thing or two. like deer in the rut when they tend to run at night. does that make them "sun shy"? not hardly, they're just adapting and doing what they have to do to survive. animals that do not adapt, change, or whatever you wanna call it end up in our gas tanks(ie: dinosaurs). kind of rambling here in no certain direction. but, insomnia has thwarted my efforts to sleep and here i am putting my $.02 in the bank.

[chatterbox]

just saying that I wonder if sometimes we, as hunters, don't give these birds a little too much credit for intelligence, and not enough for simply being suspicious of everything.

[slave601]

i wouldn say call shy or call smart... jus call harrased. especially on public land in south miss

[Turkey1986]

Call shy is just an excuse.. The same as "henned" up!! They're just educated to the average callers bag of tricks

[OLE RASPY]

Can we agree to disagree we can all think what we want to it dont hurt nobody(only the turkeys know)We just think we know.RIGHT.I dont care what it is as long as i kill him.

[shootumindaface]

Can we agree to disagree we can all think what we want to it dont hurt nobody(only the turkeys know)We just think we know.RIGHT.I dont care what it is as long as i kill him.

I actually like these topics, I think these topics are what a turkey forum is about.. It hasnt gotten heated by any means..

[hobbes]

Gobblenut,
I approached one of these threads last year (maybe the year before) with your same argument.  Not sure what I believe sometimes.  Ive blamed not killing a bird on everything I could think of.......except myself.  I guess it doesnt matter because I call a lot anyway.

I also think I was beat into submission and just agreed that turkeys are stupid..........which didint make me feel any smarter.  I feel much better about being beaten by an intelligent animal than a dumb one that just chases hens w/o rhyme nor reason.