Call Shy?

[Fox Fire]

To me its a hard call, I know turkeys dont have the capacity for intelectual thought but I've had a lotta birds sneak in on  me while I was call'n, never heard a word from them and when I thought ther aint nutthin gonna show up  I stand up and the gobbler takes off, he snuck in for some reason or another.

It seems even fish will get the sore mouth after a while and you have to give'm a rest, change fish'n plugs and catch a few more, coyotes get wise fast but I think ther smarter than some people I know.

Just a thought.

[gordongekko]

Call shy, turkey or ducks is a myth, in my opinion.  Birds get suspicious and spooky, or lack motivation, sometimes for a variety of reasons (hunting pressure, weather, availability of hens, etc) and you just have to adjust your style a little bit when they get that way.  Sometimes that just means doing something a little different than ever other hunter in the woods.  

To me a bird coming in quiet is not call shy, that is just a gobbler trying to sneak in and get some without risking a fight, in other words turkeys being turkeys.  Call shy to me implies that birds a "spooked" or get nervous at the sound of a call.  Maybe, I'm misinterpreting the term though.

[GobbleNut]

We've been down this road before.  You can call it any darn thing you want, "people shy", "call shy", "turkey sound shy"....you name it,...it is all semantics.  It is a fact of science and biology that organisms...all of them....learn thru a process called positive and negative reinforcement.  Turkeys will learn to avoid turkey-like sounds if they have had enough negative experiences with them to make them realize that they may be in danger by approaching those sounds.  It has nothing to do with anybody's turkey calling ability.  It is an evolutionary survival trait of all organisms.  

Having made that blunt statement, there are, indeed, many turkeys out there that are mistakenly identified as being "call shy et.al" because, for some reason, they did not want to come to a certain call at a certain time at a certain place on a certain day.  There are, however, turkeys in many places that have been hunted enough and experienced enough negative reinforcement that they will absolutely not approach any turkey sound, whether it is man-made or otherwise.  For anybody to say otherwise, there is an organization that was made just for them...it called the "Flat Earth Society"...better join up!

Jim

[ClayW]

We've been down this road before.  You can call it any darn thing you want, "people shy", "call shy", "turkey sound shy"....you name it,...it is all semantics.  It is a fact of science and biology that organisms...all of them....learn thru a process called positive and negative reinforcement.  Turkeys will learn to avoid turkey-like sounds if they have had enough negative experiences with them to make them realize that they may be in danger by approaching those sounds.  It has nothing to do with anybody's turkey calling ability.  It is an evolutionary survival trait of all organisms.  

Having made that blunt statement, there are, indeed, many turkeys out there that are mistakenly identified as being "call shy et.al" because, for some reason, they did not want to come to a certain call at a certain time at a certain place on a certain day.  There are, however, turkeys in many places that have been hunted enough and experienced enough negative reinforcement that they will absolutely not approach any turkey sound, whether it is man-made or otherwise.  For anybody to say otherwise, there is an organization that was made just for them...it called the "Flat Earth Society"...better join up!

Jim

Your evolution and survival of the fittest idea makes sense but I do have one question...how does that tom breed and pass on his "newly found, favorable" traits to the next generation?

Every group of hens I've ever seen is constantly making noise. A non-communicating turkey is a dead turkey IMHO

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[knightrider]

We've been down this road before.  You can call it any darn thing you want, "people shy", "call shy", "turkey sound shy"....you name it,...it is all semantics.  It is a fact of science and biology that organisms...all of them....learn thru a process called positive and negative reinforcement.  Turkeys will learn to avoid turkey-like sounds if they have had enough negative experiences with them to make them realize that they may be in danger by approaching those sounds.  It has nothing to do with anybody's turkey calling ability.  It is an evolutionary survival trait of all organisms.  

Having made that blunt statement, there are, indeed, many turkeys out there that are mistakenly identified as being "call shy et.al" because, for some reason, they did not want to come to a certain call at a certain time at a certain place on a certain day.  There are, however, turkeys in many places that have been hunted enough and experienced enough negative reinforcement that they will absolutely not approach any turkey sound, whether it is man-made or otherwise.  For anybody to say otherwise, there is an organization that was made just for them...it called the "Flat Earth Society"...better join up!

Jim

soooo, your saying as the years go buy that those smart turkeys are passing on genes to where we will no longer be able to turkey hunt because all the dumb ones will have died out and turkeys will have become unkillable

[shootumindaface]

We've been down this road before.  You can call it any darn thing you want, "people shy", "call shy", "turkey sound shy"....you name it,...it is all semantics.  It is a fact of science and biology that organisms...all of them....learn thru a process called positive and negative reinforcement.  Turkeys will learn to avoid turkey-like sounds if they have had enough negative experiences with them to make them realize that they may be in danger by approaching those sounds.  It has nothing to do with anybody's turkey calling ability.  It is an evolutionary survival trait of all organisms.  

I cannot see this, if the above were true and sound was the instigator of these negative reactions, at the first yelp of the morning from nearby roosted hens a gobbler would pitch in the opposite direction and head for the hills regardless if the hen was visual or not..

Also if the above was true the gobbler and hen interaction for 12 months a year would far out weigh the 30-45 days a year a field by hunters regardless of pressure..

[stinkpickle]

...Your evolution and survival of the fittest idea makes sense but I do have one question...how does that tom breed and pass on his "newly found, favorable" traits to the next generation?...

The hens would go to him.  He could let them stand at the opposite end of the field and yelp all day long if they wanted to.

[VAHUNTER]

...Your evolution and survival of the fittest idea makes sense but I do have one question...how does that tom breed and pass on his "newly found, favorable" traits to the next generation?...

The hens would go to him.  He could let them stand at the opposite end of the field and yelp all day long if they wanted to.

agreed. thats the way it is suppose to work. when a Gobbling Tom comes to a call he is doing something that he is not suppose to do. if you are working a Tom that has a hen nearby that he knows is there and he is satisfied with that . he will not come. if you have a Tom with hens and he wants to collect another or in most cases the hens want to see who the new girl is and he follows . thats when you can pull the group to you.if he is alone and is really wanting company you have a suicide Tom. it all boils down to the indivisual Tom and the attitude that he has at that moment

[ClayW]

...Your evolution and survival of the fittest idea makes sense but I do have one question...how does that tom breed and pass on his "newly found, favorable" traits to the next generation?...

The hens would go to him.  He could let them stand at the opposite end of the field and yelp all day long if they wanted to.

agreed. thats the way it is suppose to work. when a Gobbling Tom comes to a call he is doing something that he is not suppose to do. if you are working a Tom that has a hen nearby that he knows is there and he is satisfied with that . he will not come. if you have a Tom with hens and he wants to collect another or in most cases the hens want to see who the new girl is and he follows . thats when you can pull the group to you.if he is alone and is really wanting company you have a suicide Tom. it all boils down to the indivisual Tom and the attitude that he has at that moment

I agree but to say that same tom will knowingly ignore turkey sound s is kind of silly

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[GobbleNut]

"to say that (a) tom will knowingly ignore turkey sounds is kind of silly"---quote

You're right, turkeys don't "ignore" anything.  What they do is respond to stimuli based on their learned experiences with those, or similar, stimuli.  If a gobbler approaches sounds that he expects are from another turkey, and he has a negative experience with it....i.e. he gets shot at, or otherwise gets the bejesus scared out of him,....he learns from that experience that perhaps he should be careful about approaching turkey sounds.  If he does it again, and survives, he learns a little more,...until he reaches a point where he will not approach turkey sounds. 

Yes, all turkeys hear turkey sounds every day of their lives.  They do not ignore them, but they will adapt behavior, based on their experiences with those sounds to try to insure their own survival.  To take it one step further, turkeys can learn to avoid turkey sounds and learn to avoid approaching other turkeys that they see (i.e.--turkey decoys) through the same learning process. 

In the end, some gobblers, if they want to have turkey companionship, will stand where they feel safe and wait for live turkey hens to come to them.  They will gobble and strut to turkey sounds in the distance, thinking perhaps those sounds are coming from a real, live turkey hen, but they will not closely approach those sounds.  If the turkey sounds approach them, and they do not see what they identify as a real, live turkey, they will eventually move away, possibly to another spot a safe distance away, and start the process over again.

Anybody here that has hunted lots of years on hard-hunted public (or private) lands has seen this behavior.  It is just a reality of animal behavior, nothing more...and nothing less.

Jim

[guesswho]

Gobblenut, you got to quit staying at that Holiday Inn.

I think turkeys are NTWF shy.  I ain't never seen one around property that has a NWTF sign.

[chrisun]

Another excuse.  "Call smart" maybe. Guess that's an excuse to.

More like People shy.

Thats the best way of puttin it!

[GobbleNut]

Gobblenut, you got to quit staying at that Holiday Inn.

I think turkeys are NTWF shy.  I ain't never seen one around property that has a NWTF sign.

 
I knew it was just a matter of time, Ronnie!   

[bornagain64]

I have always heard of guys saying they love a 2 year old bird. Is that because they are easier to call in, than a 3 year old bird?
Does this mean the older a bird gets, the smarter it is, call smart?

[shootumindaface]

I have always heard of guys saying they love a 2 year old bird. Is that because they are easier to call in, than a 3 year old bird?
Does this mean the older a bird gets, the smarter it is, call smart?

I think flock dynamics has more to do with the ease of calling in a said bird.. Killed 4 year olds that acted like 2 year olds and 2 year olds that I swore were four year olds..

Birds dont get smarter they get more stubborn