The Myth of Hunting Pressure

[turkey_slayer]

Time for a "reality check".

There are lots of ways to "get it done".  Some like to imply that they kill turkeys because they are somehow superior callers than most of us.  Although that is true in some cases, the fact is that the newer generation of turkey calls available make it so that anybody that has the least bit of inclination to do so, can become great turkey callers. 

So where that leaves us is that the guys that "get it done" on highly pressured lands are most likely just better with their "woods skills" other than turkey calling.  What that ultimately means is that those that get it done do so by learning to call very little,...and set up in places where gobblers are likely going to show up. 

That has very little to do with calling skill and often, even woodsmanship.  What is does say about those hunters is that they have a lot of patience, know the country they are hunting very well, and are willing to just wait until a gobbler shows up.

They are not necessarily superior callers,...they just know when not to call more than anything else.  Almost without exception, the guys that kill birds on really heavily-pressured areas,...not the guys that just think, in their minds, that the areas they hunt are heavily pressured,...suggest that they kill those birds by calling very little and calling very softly.

That is all well and good, but what that tells me is that they are basically killing birds by setting up in places they know turkeys are going to eventually come to,...and then ambushing them. 

I get a kick out of the guys that say,..."Yeah, you can't call normally to these birds.  You got to use soft, subtle calling.  I kilt this here gobbler cuz I clucked and purred once every half hour and he came sneakin' in to my calls. ...Just the way you got to hunt 'em here".

The reality check is this:  That guy killed that gobbler because he set up in a spot he knew turkeys would eventually show up.  It had nothing to do with calling other than he knew that he could not call often or loud enough for any turkey in the area to hear him.  It was an ambushed bird pure and simple.  He killed a bird that he (or anybody else) would have killed without every making a peep on a call. 

Anybody that wants to prove to me that they are a great turkey hunter,...and not just a good turkey ambusher,....is going to have to go to a place that really gets heavily hunted.  That is a place where lots of hunters do lots of calling of all kinds to the gobblers there day in and day out during the season.  Go to a place like that, carry on a real, live conversation with a gobbler that comes to your call because he hears you calling to him and thinks you are the real deal.  If a guy can do that, and do it on a regular basis, then he will get my respect as a great turkey hunter.

I didn't post that to offend anyone. It's just a truth. I do agree people define heavily pressured different. The place I hunt in Ohio is considered to have a ton of hunters. I would consider it having your own mountain here. My areas in Tennessee and Virginia gets hunted way more. Doesn't matter if it's the 3rd week of the season on a Wednesday. There's people hunting every day. Sometimes I wonder if anyone works lol. I hear more "owls" in a day than real ones all year.

I'm not referring to ambushing either. Hunting in a rifle state is a good way to get a bullet sent your way. Patterning? What's that lol. I have rarely seen a bird do the same thing 2 days in a row. They rarely roost on the same ridge but are usually in hearing distance. This is all mountain and no fields so your mileage may vary.

I place calling on the bottom of the list. Sounding realistic can't hurt but click on the turkey hunting videos on YouTube and I'm in disbelief a turkey would come to that noise. Not all of em but several for sure. A guy on here, can't think of his name, has some good videos.

You also have to look at the population density. A novice will look good in a turkey rich environment. It's just the odds are more in your favor the more birds you hear no matter the pressure.

The point I was trying to make in my original post was I never hear any of the good turkey hunters I know complain or make an excuse. They will find a way to get it done and I deff wouldn't bet against them just the way I wouldn't bet against some guys on this forum. Is the season open yet

[Marc]

So I have a question.
If you are calling to a bird, and he doesn't come to your calls and is going away from you, the next move in the chess match is to use terrain and get to a spot that he wants to be, and kill him there.
Is that considered ambush, or tactical adjustment? You can easily say the bird is not killable, yet if you by happenstance on the following day set up in the spot where he was going to and kill him, with the same call, what does that mean? Were you lucky, or did you use the lesson you learned the day before to help you have success.
We all know of birds that will not come to calls, but will have a favorite spot be it a strut zone or dusting bowl, etc.
I am truly not being sarcastic, just confused about what the definition of ambush means in relation to hunting turkeys.

I have a lot to learn about turkey hunting, but I do know that I have to make the most of my time in the field...

So my question would be why is he moving away?

If I spooked him, or bumped him off, I would look for another bird to hunt.
If he is with and following a hen, or group of hens, I would either try to get around them, and try again, or if they are somewhere I cannot follow, I would once again look for another bird.
If he is simply being a bit cagey about wanting to come in, I might try and walk away from him and call (if he is within 150 yards), or I might try to get above him and angle slightly up and away from him while calling (if he is further away).
If he is long ways off, I might try to cut the distance, and see if I could arouse his interest...

A lot of what I would do would depend on why he is moving away, and the terrain and property I am hunting (most of my access is fairly steep, but still climbable).

[hoyt]

I have hunted spring gobblers for fifty years, including this one.  Although, compared to some on these forums, I have not hunted as many places as others, I will state that I have hunted all of the five subspecies of wild turkey in North America, and under varying conditions and hunting pressure. 

I have been fortunate enough to hunt turkeys in places where they had never been hunted before,...at least by "modern" spring gobbler hunters using todays tactics.  I have also hunted many public, wide-open grounds where the turkey hunting pressure was "maxed out", so to speak, on the birds there.  And I have hunted many places that were somewhere between the two extremes.

I can state, without hesitation, that there is a direct correlation between how much hunting pressure is put on an area by hunters using conventionally-accepted spring tactics,...calling in particular,...and how difficult they can become to kill.  I have seen it occur time after time after time.  I have discussed this phenomenon with many others,...and almost without exception, they will agree.  Those exceptions also seem to still think the earth is flat.

Sure, any turkey can be killed,...under the right circumstances and conditions,...by anybody at any time.  I could write a book full of accounts of hunters of all skill levels finding themselves in those circumstances and killing gobblers that everybody had decided were unkillable.  With very few exceptions, those success stories were the result of the hunter being in the right place at the right time.  I have stumbled into those myself over the years.

I can also tell you many, many more stories of some pretty darn good turkey hunters,...some of them champion-level callers and hunters,... that have been humiliated by gobblers they were convinced they could kill. 

So what is my point here?  The point is that there are lots of new turkey hunters that frequent this forum and others that do not understand that they can spend an entire season hunting a gobbler and calling to it, thinking it will somehow decide, out of the blue, to come pay them a visit just because it is a new day.  There are plenty of gobblers out in them thar woods that are never going to come to see you when you call to them.  ...And there are almost always more of those kinds of gobblers in places that get hunted hardest than there are in the ones that don't.

Saved me a lot of typing...

I too have hunted spring gobblers for over 50yrs...last 30 or so only on open public land. When I started I knew one other turkey hunter and he lived over 100 miles from me and there were plenty of easy (non-pressured, never hunted) turkeys to be found. My deer hunting buddies didn't know you could hunt turkeys in the spring time. There's a whole lot of difference in hunting educated turkeys..pressured...and seems like to me it takes about three classes..or being seen by them in their woods with vile intent..they seem to know.

[g8rvet]

2 birds a year disagree with "inept" and they taste fine to me.  I just have fun.

I noticed where your a duck hunter too and forgot to ask.  Your 2 birds a year, are they both ducks, turkeys, or one of each?

2 ducks?  I wish.  I usually get flipped 2 birds a year for being an arse.  Sorry for taking offense, all my posts were meant to lighten the mood on every side.  I should have known with your avatar you have a good sense of humor.  Monkey butt.  lol 

[Garrett Trentham]

My $0.02

Your two statements are false.

Looking at it just from your perspective, I see how you could have come to those conclusions. For some reason, either known or unknown, turkeys can be easier to call in by conventional methods on some days than they are on others. Weather, breeding phase and yes, even pressure can have an effect on this as well as countless other unknown causes. Maybe the gobbler got bit by a copperhead the day before and isn't feeling well. Who knows?

Hunting pressure has an effect on turkeys no questions asked. Go scout a popular piece of public land a month before the season opens. You'll find tracks, feathers, droppings, and often turkeys on the roads and paths around the property. Go there two weeks after the season has opened. You'd think every gobbler, hen, and jake had been shot and hauled off. Turkeys were using an area that was easily accessible and now they aren't. Hypothesis disproved. 

Now, hunt those same woods every day for the first two weeks of the season. Things get stale. You may hear one or two distant gobbles on the roost then it's dead silent. You wouldn't believe there was a turkey in the area if it weren't for that one feather you found near the back property line. Then your buddy Richard comes with you. Richard's one of those "turkey guys." He shot a deer one time when he was 13, and hasn't been in the woods with a rifle since. He's been pure turkey 365 days a year since 1982. After two hours in the woods with Richard on that same land that was completely void of turkeys, you've got a gobbler that's ready to lift up your hat to see if that's where you hid the hen he's been hearing. Richard can call up "pressured" turkeys better than most anyone else you know. Those of us that have hunted with Richards know it's true, but wouldn't admit it in public and never to his face. Hypothesis disproved.


Turkeys get harder to kill the more they get hunted. That's why hunters that are consistently successful on public land are almost always low impact hunters that know the land on an intimate level and can think like a turkey. Heck, they can even think like a turkey that got shot at last week. It's amazing to watch someone like this operate. It can also be incredibly hard to learn from them because often their tactics and decisions go entirely against everything you think you know. But the truth is now lying right at your feet, still warm. And Richard's sitting back there with one of his famous sh!t eating grins on his face.

[Gooserbat]

I don't think you've hunted much public land.

I have, and trust me a private land three year old turkey is apt to be as dumb as a public land jake.

[owlhoot]

I don't think you've hunted much public land.

I have, and trust me a private land three year old turkey is apt to be as dumb as a public land jake.

Agreed   
And how in the heck do you call soft enough or not enough for a turkey to not hear you. lol

[deerbasshunter3]

I am a beginner at this sport, and I have not read every post in this topic, but I cannot help but feel that turkeys are along the same lines as deer, as far as being pressured.

How many times have you shot a deer, only to have other deer come right back to where you just shot one? During the rut, a buck will forego all of his instincts that keep him alive, just to mate.

I cannot help but feel that a turkey will do the same thing. I think that if you shoot at a turkey and miss completely, he may not even know what has happened. He just knows that something scared him (noise) and he got the heck out of there. I would say that after an hour or so, he is no longer thinking about that noise, instead he is thinking about finding a mate. Now, if a few pellets hit him, that may be a different story all together. But then again, how many people shoot a deer, only to find that he/she still has a bullet, broadhead, or even an arrow still in him/her?

Please take everything that I have said with a grain of salt (Except about deer. I know my deer hunting.). It is just my opinion.

[Ihuntoldschool]

A 3 year old or older gobbler is what he is a 3 year old or older regardless of where he calls home, public or private.  Turkeys get tougher to hunt the older they get from their years of experience they have learned many lessons on survival in the wild. They are hunted everyday by predators.

Jakes on public land get plenty of pressure from hunters. But there is a huge difference between a jake and a 3 or 4 year old gobbler regardless of where they live.

[deerbasshunter3]

A 3 year old or older gobbler is what he is a 3 year old or older regardless of where he calls home, public or private.  Turkeys get tougher to hunt the older they get from their years of experience they have learned many lessons on survival in the wild. They are hunted everyday by predators.

Jakes on public land get plenty of pressure from hunters. But there is a huge difference between a jake and a 3 or 4 year old gobbler regardless of where they live.

This is true, but let me ask you this:

If a gobbler does not see or hear you (Does not know a predator (you) is around), and sees other turkeys (decoys), would he not assume all is well, regardless of how much pressure has been put on him throughout the years, or how old he is?

[Ihuntoldschool]

I don't use decoys so I cannot say on your question.  I can say a turkeys senses get better as he gets older, his eyesight, his hearing, he gets more wary, he matures and is harder to call.   My point was a jake anywhere on any type land is not anywhere near a 3 year old or older on any type land.

[deerbasshunter3]

I don't use decoys so I cannot say on your question.  I can say a turkeys senses get better as he gets older, his eyesight, his hearing, he gets more wary, he matures and is harder to call.   My point was a jake anywhere on any type land is not anywhere near a 3 year old or older on any type land.

No doubt that turkeys, as well as most living creatures, will wise up the older they get. Unfortunately, not always true for humans...

[Garrett Trentham]

A 3 year old or older gobbler is what he is a 3 year old or older regardless of where he calls home, public or private.  Turkeys get tougher to hunt the older they get from their years of experience they have learned many lessons on survival in the wild. They are hunted everyday by predators.

Jakes on public land get plenty of pressure from hunters. But there is a huge difference between a jake and a 3 or 4 year old gobbler regardless of where they live.

This is true, but let me ask you this:

If a gobbler does not see or hear you (Does not know a predator (you) is around), and sees other turkeys (decoys), would he not assume all is well, regardless of how much pressure has been put on him throughout the years, or how old he is?

No, turkeys are never under the assumption that all is well. Never.

Here's the thing. First of, you can't really compare a whitetail's reaction to being shot at from a box stand 150 yds away to missing a turkey that was called up to 20 yds on the ground. It's almost physically impossible to call a turkey into gun range without them thinking something is off. They're already a little sketched out by the fact that the hen didn't come running to them. Do decoys have a calming affect? Sure they do, but they still realize something is off.

I could kind of see what you're saying if the situation were such that the turkey walked within gun range on their own accord (as is often the case with deer). You were sitting in a likely area and a gobbler came along, you shoot and miss. Now, I postulate that that turkey will be less "educated" by that occurrence than if you had worked him for three hours. Throwing everything but the kitchen sink at a turkey (gobbles, fighting purr, cutting, wing flapping, etc.), getting him within gun range and not finishing the deal (whether you miss, spook him, or he just gives you the slip) will make that turkey harder to call in again.

[deerbasshunter3]

A 3 year old or older gobbler is what he is a 3 year old or older regardless of where he calls home, public or private.  Turkeys get tougher to hunt the older they get from their years of experience they have learned many lessons on survival in the wild. They are hunted everyday by predators.

Jakes on public land get plenty of pressure from hunters. But there is a huge difference between a jake and a 3 or 4 year old gobbler regardless of where they live.

This is true, but let me ask you this:

If a gobbler does not see or hear you (Does not know a predator (you) is around), and sees other turkeys (decoys), would he not assume all is well, regardless of how much pressure has been put on him throughout the years, or how old he is?

No, turkeys are never under the assumption that all is well. Never.

Here's the thing. First of, you can't really compare a whitetail's reaction to being shot at from a box stand 150 yds away to missing a turkey that was called up to 20 yds on the ground. It's almost physically impossible to call a turkey into gun range without them thinking something is off. They're already a little sketched out by the fact that the hen didn't come running to them. Do decoys have a calming affect? Sure they do, but they still realize something is off.

I could kind of see what you're saying if the situation were such that the turkey walked within gun range on their own accord (as is often the case with deer). You were sitting in a likely area and a gobbler came along, you shoot and miss. Now, I postulate that that turkey will be less "educated" by that occurrence than if you had worked him for three hours. Throwing everything but the kitchen sink at a turkey (gobbles, fighting purr, cutting, wing flapping, etc.), getting him within gun range and not finishing the deal (whether you miss, spook him, or he just gives you the slip) will make that turkey harder to call in again.

I was actually referring to deer in the sense of bowhunting (within 30 yards). rarely have any of the deer that I have shot with my rifle even been outside of 50 yards. I guess it just has to do with the spots I choose to hunt deer. I am getting off topic though.

So, is it safe to say that hens do not call to gobblers as much as we humans think that they do?

Not trying to argue with anybody, just trying to learn and put in my two cents.

[Ihuntoldschool]

No, hens call plenty to gobblers.   It is safe to say that turkeys are WAY more suspicious by nature than deer.   It is also safe to say that when a hen calls to a gobbler she does not hide invisibly beside a tree or a stump when the gobbler approaches closely.  Real hens can be seen and heard.