The Myth of Hunting Pressure

[TauntoHawk]

Pressure is real, it is just given more credit than it deserves.

the only a few days that any one bird can be called couldn't be more off in my mind. Birds that are easy to call in or are more gobble prone die early, then they are gone. if those birds were allowed to walk they would come back in the next day and the day after that.

All in all, birds aren't overly hard to kill as long as they are there and you spend some time in the woods.

[g8rvet]

Hunting Pressure = more people in turkey woods "impersonating turkeys" = more encounters by turkeys with people "impersonating" them = more negative reinforcement to turkeys that they should avoid said impersonators = turkeys associating danger with getting too close to impersonators = turkeys deciding that unless they want to be converted to turkey nuggets that perhaps they should avoid all impersonations of turkeys = gobblers never approaching any turkey impersonation, accompanied by an attitude of,..."if you want some of this, you are going to have to come over here to me so I can see that you are a real turkey".

I agree with everything except the Bold Underlined.  I think you were being tongue in cheek though.  Turkeys don't "decide" anything.  There is no complex thought, just positive punishment - (not negative reinforcement)- they have a behavior and there is a negative outcome. It is a common misuse of the term though.  You described positive punishment- a behavior is met with a punishment (interaction with human) and then is avoided.  Negative reinforcement would be the turkey avoids the call and thus avoids the interaction.  They would not have the logical ability to avoid the call without the positive punishment. 

If you touch a hot stove, you will get burned (positive punishment).  You make a logical decision before you ever touch the stove to avoid it (negative reinforcement)-they have to touch the stove to know it burns them. I don't think that can happen with a turkey without the positive punishment.  My wife and daughter are education majors and have taught me this.  This also explains easy to kill young birds or easy to kill birds that have not been exposed to hunting much (no positive punishment). 

Fun topic.

[Ihuntoldschool]

Combination of things. Less gobblers left after opening weekend, Absolutely.
Less hunters after opening weekend, Absolutely, hence lower kill totals.
Less hunters after say the 1st week of season, Absolutely, again contributing to the lower kill totals.
Hunting pressure being wrongly blamed for why someone didn't get the bird, Sure that happens alot.
Hunting pressure a myth, NO It is real.
Difference between pressured turkeys vs. turkeys that have never heard a call/seen a hunter YOU BET.

[silvestris]

Who can say for certainty what thought processes Wild Turkeys are capable of.  Perhaps the only thing holding them back is the absence of an opposable thumb

[Paladin85]

Read "Illumination in the Flatwoods" by Joe Hutto if you want to be impressed by the complexity of the wild turkey

[falltoms]

I can assure you here in Pennsylvania pressure affects turkeys. I have seen over the years in the fall seasons. When flocks of young of the year were busted up for the first time and called very little if at all. Why, probably because of the brood hens in the flock. Hence it is breed into generations. In the last 10 years, I can't tell you how many coyotes my friends and I have called in during the fall, calling turkeys. The birds feel and react to the pressure from the coyotes.I hunt a lot of public ground. There is nothing that compares to harvesting a hard hunted, pressured gobbler on public ground. They are a different breed for sure. I know I will probably get hammered for this, but if you don't believe pressure affects turkeys than you haven't hunted turkeys that have been pressured enough.

[turkey_slayer]

One thing is for sure. Guys I know who kill pressured turkeys year in year out never say the turkeys are over hunted, call shy, henned up, bad weather or whatever excuse people who pursue turkeys come up with. They just get it done.

[GobbleNut]

Time for a "reality check".

There are lots of ways to "get it done".  Some like to imply that they kill turkeys because they are somehow superior callers than most of us.  Although that is true in some cases, the fact is that the newer generation of turkey calls available make it so that anybody that has the least bit of inclination to do so, can become great turkey callers. 

So where that leaves us is that the guys that "get it done" on highly pressured lands are most likely just better with their "woods skills" other than turkey calling.  What that ultimately means is that those that get it done do so by learning to call very little,...and set up in places where gobblers are likely going to show up. 

That has very little to do with calling skill and often, even woodsmanship.  What is does say about those hunters is that they have a lot of patience, know the country they are hunting very well, and are willing to just wait until a gobbler shows up.

They are not necessarily superior callers,...they just know when not to call more than anything else.  Almost without exception, the guys that kill birds on really heavily-pressured areas,...not the guys that just think, in their minds, that the areas they hunt are heavily pressured,...suggest that they kill those birds by calling very little and calling very softly.

That is all well and good, but what that tells me is that they are basically killing birds by setting up in places they know turkeys are going to eventually come to,...and then ambushing them. 

I get a kick out of the guys that say,..."Yeah, you can't call normally to these birds.  You got to use soft, subtle calling.  I kilt this here gobbler cuz I clucked and purred once every half hour and he came sneakin' in to my calls. ...Just the way you got to hunt 'em here".

The reality check is this:  That guy killed that gobbler because he set up in a spot he knew turkeys would eventually show up.  It had nothing to do with calling other than he knew that he could not call often or loud enough for any turkey in the area to hear him.  It was an ambushed bird pure and simple.  He killed a bird that he (or anybody else) would have killed without every making a peep on a call. 

Anybody that wants to prove to me that they are a great turkey hunter,...and not just a good turkey ambusher,....is going to have to go to a place that really gets heavily hunted.  That is a place where lots of hunters do lots of calling of all kinds to the gobblers there day in and day out during the season.  Go to a place like that, carry on a real, live conversation with a gobbler that comes to your call because he hears you calling to him and thinks you are the real deal.  If a guy can do that, and do it on a regular basis, then he will get my respect as a great turkey hunter.   

[g8rvet]

So, now knowing the woods and taking the time to learn where the birds want to be is ambushing?  Let me get "the rules" right here.

No 41 yard shots.
No blinds.
No decoys.
No sitting and blind calling (ambushing).


Have I missed anything? 

(not picking on you alone Gobble, just a lot of rules to keep up with)
I have broken 3 out of those 4 - never used a pop up, unless a ground blind counts, then I have broken all 4. 

[guesswho]

What's the word I'm looking for?   Oh yeah, inept!

[g8rvet]

Some of you "experts" take yourselves too seriously.  That's cool.  I am a duck hunter, goose hunter, turkey hunter, redfish catcher and a couple of other hobbies.  2 birds a year disagree with "inept" and they taste fine to me.  I just have fun. 

[guesswho]

Some of you "experts" take yourselves too seriously.  That's cool.  I am a duck hunter, goose hunter, turkey hunter, redfish catcher and a couple of other hobbies.  2 birds a year disagree with "inept" and they taste fine to me.  I just have fun.

The inept comment was a private poke at Gobblenut.   Most on here who know me will tell you taking myself too serious is something I've never been accused of.   And rarely accused of expert.  Sorry if you took the inept comment personal, it wasn't meant to be.     

[Ihuntoldschool]

Fall toms is right on the money about the reality of pressure. Now the more experience you have, the more you realize this in my opinion.

Turkey slayer is right on the money about guys just getting it done despite pressure, overhunted birds.

Gobblenut, to some extent I agree with you about ambushing. But in this case in my opinion turkey slayer is a great hunter and deserves that respect you talked about. He is not one to cheapen the turkey hunting experience, but rather respects the bird and adheres to the highest standards as far as fair chase/fair play and ethics. I also share this, as do many others on this forum.  Being from the same state, I know a bit about the terrain/pressure in this part of the country. I honestly do not believe the guys he talked about are "ambushers", but rather truly great hunters. One point on calling, knowing when not to call is a part of being a good/great caller.

[guesswho]

2 birds a year disagree with "inept" and they taste fine to me.  I just have fun.

I noticed where your a duck hunter too and forgot to ask.  Your 2 birds a year, are they both ducks, turkeys, or one of each?

[chatterbox]

So I have a question.
If you are calling to a bird, and he doesn't come to your calls and is going away from you, the next move in the chess match is to use terrain and get to a spot that he wants to be, and kill him there.
Is that considered ambush, or tactical adjustment? You can easily say the bird is not killable, yet if you by happenstance on the following day set up in the spot where he was going to and kill him, with the same call, what does that mean? Were you lucky, or did you use the lesson you learned the day before to help you have success.
We all know of birds that will not come to calls, but will have a favorite spot be it a strut zone or dusting bowl, etc.
I am truly not being sarcastic, just confused about what the definition of ambush means in relation to hunting turkeys.