The Myth of Hunting Pressure

[Garrett Trentham]

So, is it safe to say that hens do not call to gobblers as much as we humans think that they do?

I would tend to agree with that. As a general rule in nature, gobblers call in the hens. Not the other way around. Now, hens do get excited and call up gobblers, especially if they're lost or can't get to the gobbler for some reason.

I encourage you to test this. Go out one morning in early spring and gobble up some hens. It's quite easy and is a great way to observe hen behavior. Now, back to the subject, by doing this you risk spooking and educating birds, but if it's on your own private land, you'll gain more from the experience than you'll loose.

[Ihuntoldschool]

Okay, as a general rule we are going against nature.

But Hens absolutely call up gobblers all the time. Hens do call loud and alot and are very vocal at certain times during the breeding season. 

How many times have been calling a gobbler who was working your way until he heard "his hen" and went to her?  Happens all the time.

[falltoms]

Anyone who thinks hunting pressure doesn't affect turkeys. Apperantly has no idea how a pressured turkey acts. I just can't believe anyone could make such a statement. I respect your option, but your sadly mistaken. I live in PA. I hunt a lot of public ground. I know its been mentioned before, a 3 or 4 year old gobbler acts a certain way for a reason.

[WildTigerTrout]

Anyone who thinks hunting pressure doesn't affect turkeys. Apperantly has no idea how a pressured turkey acts. I just can't believe anyone could make such a statement. I respect your option, but your sadly mistaken. I live in PA. I hunt a lot of public ground. I know its been mentioned before, a 3 or 4 year old gobbler acts a certain way for a reason.

[hoyt]

A 3 year old or older gobbler is what he is a 3 year old or older regardless of where he calls home, public or private.  Turkeys get tougher to hunt the older they get from their years of experience they have learned many lessons on survival in the wild. They are hunted everyday by predators.

Jakes on public land get plenty of pressure from hunters. But there is a huge difference between a jake and a 3 or 4 year old gobbler regardless of where they live.

If you take a jake from heavy pressured public or private land and put it on a piece of property that hasn't been hunted or has little to no pressure, I would be willing to bet good money a three yr old gobbler would be easier to kill than that jake.

Being hunted by a human predator is a lot different than wild predators..for one thing wild predators don't make sounds like a love sick hen.

[Ihuntoldschool]

Jakes are not necessarily easy to kill when it comes to calling them in. They are very unpredictable and may be very timid and somewhat afraid in approaching hen calls at times.

3 or 4 year old gobblers are WAY more patient and more apt to wait for the hen to come to them, compared to younger birds regardless of where they live.

2 year olds are usually the most eager to approach a hen they have not seen in my experience.

Pressure is a factor but it ain't the only factor.   Turkeys are just being turkeys many times when pressure is blamed or used as an excuse.

I honestly thought this thread was started as a joke when I just read the 1st couple lines.

[deerbasshunter3]

First off, let me throw out two basic statements:
1)  There is no such thing as hunting pressure when it comes to turkeys.
2)  There are only a few days every season where gobblers are huntable by conventional methods.

1) Although I do not agree that pressure is what everybody thinks it is, I still feel that it can be a factor. If I shoot at a turkey and miss him, I am, most likely, not going to get another shot at him that day. Of course, there is the possibility that he will forget about it hours later and I can ambush him, but I doubt very seriously that he will be coming to any calls for the rest of that day.

2) I do not know what the OP means by "conventional methods", but I do not agree with this statement. I know for a fact that at least three gobblers were killed off of our property last year before I had a chance to experience my first turkey hunt. There were probably more that I did not know about since other people that i do not ever talk to hunt there as well. That being said, I had a shot at a gobbler on April 27th. I missed, but he was called in from a ways away in the swamp. He even flew over a creek to come to our calling. I would assume that if there were only a few days that gobblers were huntable by conventional methods, they would be consecutive days, not spread out throughout the month. Fact of the matter is, gobblers were clearly huntable throughout the season last year.

[owlhoot]

A 3 year old or older gobbler is what he is a 3 year old or older regardless of where he calls home, public or private.  Turkeys get tougher to hunt the older they get from their years of experience they have learned many lessons on survival in the wild. They are hunted everyday by predators.

Jakes on public land get plenty of pressure from hunters. But there is a huge difference between a jake and a 3 or 4 year old gobbler regardless of where they live.

If you take a jake from heavy pressured public or private land and put it on a piece of property that hasn't been hunted or has little to no pressure, I would be willing to bet good money a three yr old gobbler would be easier to kill than that jake.

Being hunted by a human predator is a lot different than wild predators..for one thing wild predators don't make sounds like a love sick hen.

Young birds are taught by the old mama hens(you know them that keep the other young turkeys away from you during the fall and lead the gobblers away from you in the spring)? These know the dangers in the lands they live on.  Go to an area that cant be hunted at all, State or county park for instance. You can walk up on them , old toms and hens alike , they are not afraid of the human. I've done it many times.  Called the toms right up many times while standing in the trail with shorts and a white t-shirt.  Deer do the same thing, Monster bucks stand there and look at you. Squirrels run the trails all around you. County park last spring i called 3 of the mighty 3 -4 year old toms gobblin their fool heads off to my truck bumper while i sat in the back drinking coffee.  Go to a conservation hunting area and try that. Even the young toms and hens get a glimpse of you they are gone. Squirrels hide or run into holes. All you see is whitetails heading out even after season has been over for months.
But the predator thing is another story , take your dog to the park and the critters will go bye now.

[guesswho]

I should have known with your avatar you have a good sense of humor.  Monkey butt.  lol

It was either that or a picture of my Wife, so I opted for the Rump Monkey!

[GobbleNut]

Young birds are taught by the old mama hens(you know them that keep the other young turkeys away from you during the fall and lead the gobblers away from you in the spring)?

This statement brings up another point that really hasn't been discussed much.  I think one big factor in calling in gobblers is the number of hens that might be with them,...and how many times the hens have been through the wringer with hunters. 

How many times does it take for a hen turkey to come to a caller and watch the gobbler that is with her get blown away before she realizes distant turkey calling is a danger,...and begins to shy away from it and take a perfectly willing gobbler with her. 

This may be the biggest factor of all in a lot of places that get hunted much.

[Ihuntoldschool]

Excellent point!  How many times?  Once.  But the other gobblers learn from this as well not just the hens.

[shaman]

1) Although I do not agree that pressure is what everybody thinks it is, I still feel that it can be a factor. If I shoot at a turkey and miss him, I am, most likely, not going to get another shot at him that day. Of course, there is the possibility that he will forget about it hours later and I can ambush him, but I doubt very seriously that he will be coming to any calls for the rest of that day.

2) I do not know what the OP means by "conventional methods", but I do not agree with this statement. I know for a fact that at least three gobblers were killed off of our property last year before I had a chance to experience my first turkey hunt. There were probably more that I did not know about since other people that i do not ever talk to hunt there as well. That being said, I had a shot at a gobbler on April 27th. I missed, but he was called in from a ways away in the swamp. He even flew over a creek to come to our calling. I would assume that if there were only a few days that gobblers were huntable by conventional methods, they would be consecutive days, not spread out throughout the month. Fact of the matter is, gobblers were clearly huntable throughout the season last year.

I will address what you said, and it might make it a little clearer to everyone -- second point first. My  experience is those "ON" days are generally not consecutive.  There may be a day or so where the gobs are partially "ON" leading up to an "ON" day, but my experience with my turkeys has been seasons that are mostly "OFF" with a few "ON" days sprinkled in.

Given that, what you give as an example goes to prove what I'm saying about hunting pressure.  The gob got shot at, he flew off, and then turned back ON later in the week. 

Let me also try to clarify my "by conventional methods" definition.  To me, "conventional"  means sitting with your butt against a tree, calling a gob off the roost  or more generally  using calls alone to call in a gobbler.  Unconventional?  Ambushing, decoys, long distance shooting, afternoon hunting --basically  all the stuff that gets the old schoolers worked up. 

Now, let me address some of the other criticisms.

1)  I might be crazy, deluded, or just plain wrong.    Well, that might be.  However, I am doing my best to describe to you what I see.
2)  My turkeys might all be pressured.  This is possible too.  Everyone hunts around me.   Half the turkey taken in the season are taken opening weekend. I am assuming the turkeys on my 200 acres are not all that bothered by the hunting.  I could be wrong
3)  Everybody knows turkeys can learn not to come to calls.  Look, I might have retarded turkeys, but the mature gobs I've killed just seemed to be having a brain-dead morning when they walked into the end of my shotgun.  Maybe I'm a better hunter than I think, but these birds fell to my calls every bit as much as the 2 yr olds. 
4)  There are more than 2-3 days a year where turkeys are callable.  Yes, but my season in Kentucky usually starts during the Latent Phase of the turkey breeding cycle.  There are plenty of "ON" days on my place, for weeks before season, but it is all before the hens and gobs actually start hooking up.  I had a gobs this weekend I was observing that I could have easily called to the gun if  I had been allowed to have one.  Between that, screwy weather, and the other stuff that gets in the way, how many really good days of hunting do y'all get after the gobs and hens start to hook up?

Now, let me make my own criticism.  That is, for all the protestations I've seen in this thread and for all the "schooling" I've received from more experienced turkey hunters over the years, no one has ever been able to pinpoint the difference between a "pressured" gobbler and a naturally unwilling one.  Ah Ha! you say. Everybody knows that once a gobbler has been "pressured," he doesn't come to calls   willingly. He needs  to see the hen before he comes. He may not come to calls ever again.  I say that is circular logic.  I say we're pre-supposing that a turkey can be pressured, and then every recalcitrant, ornery gob we run into we call "pressured."    If someone could give a definition of "pressure" that is distinct and different from "cantakerous", "recalcitrant", "ornery" (all the things that make turkeys fun to hunt)  , or give a specific change of tactics that will kill a "pressured" bird that is distinct from tactics to kill a regular "unpressured" cantakerous,recalcitrant, ornery gobbler, and I'll be happy to call myself happily edified and thank you for the advice. 

Look, I hunt on a property in a county in a state where half of all turkeys that are going to be killed in a given year are killed on the first two days of the season.  By that standard, you can say that every bird in the state is pressured.  What I'm observing is that a lot of what I see in the first half of our season is not "pressure", but the effects of the Latent Phase of the breeding cycle, and funky weather.  I also believe that if turkeys are being "pressured", the effect does not last long.  My gobs can turn "ON" any time during the season, regardless of the shooting.

Lastly:  I keep hearing that turkeys that live in unhuntable areas are meek, amicable, and ready to  co-exist with humans.  OK.  Let's shoot 50% of them over  a 2-day period every year.  How soon will that docile barnyard nature last?  I'm not talking about "pressure" as much as I'm talking selective breeding.  I'm saying the birds we call "pressured" are pre-disposed to being wary, because they are the ones that survive The Opener. 

[Ihuntoldschool]

Breeding starts in February and has been observed as late of 4th of July weekend that I am aware. Gobblers may come to hen calls any day in between. Lots of ebb and flow during the breeding period.

A lot of turkeys you call "ornery" to me are just turkeys being turkeys.
Just because he doesn't run to your calls does not mean he is "ornery" or a "bad turkey"

It is a gobblers nature to hang up, he wants the hen to come to hen. This is the same game he plays with real hens. Some days he is more excited than others.

Most states have higher kill totals the first part of the season. This is normal. Think hunter effort may be a factor here?  Think pressure may be more of a factor the longer the season goes on? Think there may be less birds left?  None of this data you talk about on kill totals means that gobblers cannot be called to the gun on what you call "OFF" days, whatever that means anyway.

[shaman]

Breeding starts in February and has been observed as late of 4th of July weekend that I am aware. Gobblers may come to hen calls any day in between. Lots of ebb and flow during the breeding period.

A lot of turkeys you call "ornery" to me are just turkeys being turkeys.
Just because he doesn't run to your calls does not mean he is "ornery" or a "bad turkey"

It is a gobblers nature to hang up, he wants the hen to come to hen. This is the same game he plays with real hens. Some days he is more excited than others.

Most states have higher kill totals the first part of the season. This is normal. Think hunter effort may be a factor here?  Think pressure may be more of a factor the longer the season goes on? Think there may be less birds left?  None of this data you talk about on kill totals means that gobblers cannot be called to the gun on what you call "OFF" days, whatever that means anyway.

You are exactly right.  Turkeys breed for a good long time, but breeding in January or June doesn't answer how many days during a legal season a gobbler will be ready and willing to put aside his other attentions and run over to the end of a hunter's shotgun.  From Mid-April to Mid-May in the Trans-Bluegrass I've found that there are blessed few of those days. Most of those days you can blame on bad weather.  I just think hunting pressure is not one of the major reasons.

Ornery is exactly what you say-- turkeys being turkeys.  What I'm saying is that they have plenty of orneriness in them naturally. No one needs to theorize human pressure to add to it.  You can if you want, but it does not add anything to the solution.

Off days: My definition is any time you come in from the field scratching your head. Surely you have had at least a few of those, right?   There may have been zero gobbles on the roost, or the turkeys never showed up in their usual feeding spots or it may appear the turkeys jumped down a manhole and pulled the lid over them, or you tried your best to call up a turkey and they either would not honor those calls or tossed you a few obligatory gobbles and then walked the other way.  Can a turkey be called in on an "OFF" day?  Yes, but then it wouldn't be an "OFF" day then would it?

Now, if a turkey hunter cannot fathom the idea of an "OFF" day, then probably they are paying someone to stake a turkey out on a tether.   Otherwise, they are being deliberately ornery and cantakerous.  I , being a gentleman of good will and intention, will assume they are just  having an "OFF" day.

[Ihuntoldschool]

A lot of your points, I certainly agree with.  Some days are better than others, yes.
I think a lot has to do with the timing and ebb and flow of the breeding cycle, availability of the hens and that sort of thing.

I still think hunting pressure plays a role and affects turkeys.  Turkeys learn from watching their buddy get shot in front of their eyes after responding to hen sounds. Turkeys begin to realize that real owls or real hens don't drive vehicles, slam doors and immediately start calling (from the road of course).

On those off days, it can also be just an off hour, things change by the minute with turkeys, not necessarily by the day.     

Sir, I agree with a lot of what you are saying here.  This varies from state to state and depending upon when the hunting seasons are timed to open regarding what stage of the breeding cycle the turkeys are in.   Still a lot of ebb and flow in my opinion, not as hard and fast or clearly defined as we sometimes think.