Longbeard Question for Clark Bush

[highwaygun]

Clark would you like to trade boxes with me?  I have 18 shells from this lot, I would prefer 7 size.

that is a pretty funny statement after the conversation me and you had yesterday about penetration the other thread.

[klemsontigers7]

Clark would you like to trade boxes with me?  I have 18 shells from this lot, I would prefer 7 size.

that is a pretty funny statement after the conversation me and you had yesterday about penetration the other thread.

I think maybe there was some misunderstanding.  When did I say Lead 7 was insufficient?

[klemsontigers7]

I should make a statement since what I said was obviously misconstrued. I would love to shoot TSS #8 or 9. I think they, along with lead 7.5 would kill any turkey walking. I was just arguing the statement about TSS 9 hitting like lead 4.

At 40 yds, the lighter but more dense pellet will have less drag (because of size) but it's part of the velocity equation determined by it's weight will be higher. These factors practically even out at 40 yds and both will be traveling very close to the same speed.  The lead pellet will have 3 times the mass at the same speed meaning more hitting power. TSS may penetrate similarly into gelatin due to the size being much smaller. By carrying more energy, the lead 4 will perform better on a bird that isn't made of ballistics gel. His same effect is seen when shooting a 3/4" broadhead vs a 2" broadhead.  Penetration into gel doesn't tell the whole story.

Now, I'm not an idiot, I know TSS performance will be better due to hardness and density, but the availability of good lead shells today makes it a no brainer to me to shoot Longbeards. I don't think the difference is as large as most think.

[highwaygun]

Clark would you like to trade boxes with me?  I have 18 shells from this lot, I would prefer 7 size.

that is a pretty funny statement after the conversation me and you had yesterday about penetration the other thread.

I think maybe there was some misunderstanding.  When did I say Lead 7 was insufficient?

You didn't and neither did I. I just think it's funny that a much as you have pushed these shells and there quality you now wanna trade for these shells that are cleary not what they are stated to be by the manufacturer. I know you also cut some open that were correct shot size and i 100% believe yoj but don't you think just maybe that all these great pattern lately with the longbeards #6's could have a little to do with Mr bush's findings.

[highwaygun]

I should make a statement since what I said was obviously misconstrued. I would love to shoot TSS #8 or 9. I think they, along with lead 7.5 would kill any turkey walking. I was just arguing the statement about TSS 9 hitting like lead 4.

At 40 yds, the lighter but more dense pellet will have less drag (because of size) but it's part of the velocity equation determined by it's weight will be higher. These factors practically even out at 40 yds and both will be traveling very close to the same speed.  The lead pellet will have 3 times the mass at the same speed meaning more hitting power. TSS may penetrate similarly into gelatin due to the size being much smaller. By carrying more energy, the lead 4 will perform better on a bird that isn't made of ballistics gel. His same effect is seen when shooting a 3/4" broadhead vs a 2" broadhead.  Penetration into gel doesn't tell the whole story.

Now, I'm not an idiot, I know TSS performance will be better due to hardness and density, but the availability of good lead shells today makes it a no brainer to me to shoot Longbeards. I don't think the difference is as large as most think.

not calling you an idiot by no means we are just having a friendly conversation

[highwaygun]

And to your broadhead statement which one of those broadhead would get better penetration on a trophy buck shoulder?

[klemsontigers7]

And to your broadhead statement which one of those broadhead would get better penetration on a trophy buck shoulder?

Considering the weight difference of TSS 9 and lead 4 is threefold and their down range velocities are all but equal (within 8 fps), you would have to compare a 900 grain arrow with a 2" cut to a 300 grain arrow with a 3/4" cut (and assume velocities are the same)   Obviously I would take the 900 grain 2" cut.

[BowBendr]

I should make a statement since what I said was obviously misconstrued. I would love to shoot TSS #8 or 9. I think they, along with lead 7.5 would kill any turkey walking. I was just arguing the statement about TSS 9 hitting like lead 4.

At 40 yds, the lighter but more dense pellet will have less drag (because of size) but it's part of the velocity equation determined by it's weight will be higher. These factors practically even out at 40 yds and both will be traveling very close to the same speed.  The lead pellet will have 3 times the mass at the same speed meaning more hitting power. TSS may penetrate similarly into gelatin due to the size being much smaller. By carrying more energy, the lead 4 will perform better on a bird that isn't made of ballistics gel. His same effect is seen when shooting a 3/4" broadhead vs a 2" broadhead.  Penetration into gel doesn't tell the whole story.

Now, I'm not an idiot, I know TSS performance will be better due to hardness and density, but the availability of good lead shells today makes it a no brainer to me to shoot Longbeards. I don't think the difference is as large as most think.

Never shot any TSS have you...not trying to bash....just wondering....??

[Old Gobbler]

Lead is good , plenty good to kill any gobbler standing on the earth within 40 paces that's a fact , I have a opinion that the new Winchester longbeard is perhaps the best lead turkey load ever devised , ever -         now best doesn't mean it's what you should use or be it right for your needs  - something else may suit your needs - notice I didn't say it was the best turkey load , I said LEAD

With that being said , all the drama doesn't revolve around the LB's ability to drop a gobbler at 40 yards , it was the over ambitious claims that raised eyebrows - I do think Winchester has a product that sells itself there is no need to spend money on expensive adds , tv time , add space on back pages of mail order catalogs etc.... And no need for tv personalities , nothing personal , I don't take any of those folks seriously , and I'm not in the minority by thinking that way  . the tall claims ....well I'm not the public relations department for Winchester , so if people are unhappy this season because they bought into the hype on the tv , and the side of the box , and they had to sit there and watch a gobbler run off with a broken wing .....cause they did what the side of the box told them to do ....and shoot at a gobbler at 60 yards --- well that's Winchesters problem 

If your satisfied with shooting to 40 yards etc.... The issue is at rest-

[highwaygun]

 

Gonna be a lot of crippled birds when fellas think they can sling 40yd lead #6's at a 60yd birds and the kicker is they are really #7's 

[cluck]

I ain't a rocket man but I think Old Gobler is right! The Truth will be know after the season is over. I been  wondering how that number 7 shot at over 35 yds is gonna kill that turkey at 70. When the boys come home with their head hangin down and saying I just don't understand. Its winchesters reputation that's on the line. Don't misundrestand me I think they make good shells but these ranges are a joke. Its gonna be cry'in time. Is it election time yet, I want to here some real truth?(haha)    cluck

[bawana]

Years ago, about 18 or 19 to be exact, Federal had a 7 1/2 lead load, they patterned great! I shot two gobblers with them, both at about 35 yards, rolled both of them and watched both of them fly away.

[highwaygun]

I ain't a rocket man but I think Old Gobler is right! The Truth will be know after the season is over. I been  wondering how that number 7 shot at over 35 yds is gonna kill that turkey at 70. When the boys come htome with their head hangin down and saying I just don't understand. Its winchesters reputation that's on the line. Don't misundrestand me I think they make good shells but these ranges are a joke. Its gonna be cry'in time. Is it election time yet, I want to here some real truth?(haha)    cluck

i doubt that many people have the beans in there bag to tell us what happens when they take a shot at long range with this bird load.

[davisd9]

Lead is good , plenty good to kill any gobbler standing on the earth within 40 paces that's a fact , I have a opinion that the new Winchester longbeard is perhaps the best lead turkey load ever devised , ever -         now best doesn't mean it's what you should use or be it right for your needs  - something else may suit your needs - notice I didn't say it was the best turkey load , I said LEAD

With that being said , all the drama doesn't revolve around the LB's ability to drop a gobbler at 40 yards , it was the over ambitious claims that raised eyebrows - I do think Winchester has a product that sells itself there is no need to spend money on expensive adds , tv time , add space on back pages of mail order catalogs etc.... And no need for tv personalities , nothing personal , I don't take any of those folks seriously , and I'm not in the minority by thinking that way  . the tall claims ....well I'm not the public relations department for Winchester , so if people are unhappy this season because they bought into the hype on the tv , and the side of the box , and they had to sit there and watch a gobbler run off with a broken wing .....cause they did what the side of the box told them to do ....and shoot at a gobbler at 60 yards --- well that's Winchesters problem 

If your satisfied with shooting to 40 yards etc.... The issue is at rest-

Great post!

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

[TBab]

Ill be using them. Ill be keeping my shots 40 and under and I guarantee that many birds will die to this load be it 4's, 5's, or 6's. Just hopefully by the grace of god people will have enough sense not to try and take these ridiculously long shots at turkeys and seriously think that its #1. Acceptable #2. Ethical. It doesn't matter to me whether the 4's are 5's and the 5's are 6's and the 6's are 7's I dont have a doubt in my mind that at 40 yards a lot of turkeys will die but I also have no doubt in my mind that there will be a lot of wounded turkeys because of these numbskulls out there that believe everything that they hear. I appreciate guys like Clark and klemson taking the time to break these shells and find out this kind of information. But just everyone agree that no matter what if shots are taken at ethical ranges that this shell will lay the turkeys in the dirt. It shows improvements for lead by leaps and bounds.