Longbeard Question for Clark Bush

[klemsontigers7]

I keep hearing rumors that you measured Longbeard #6's and people keep saying "a lot of the pellets were #7"

I too measured a #6 and the AVERAGE size came out to be .11135", which is LARGER than #6.  Yes, some of the pellets were #7 size, but some were #4, #5, and #6 as well.

I'm trying to bust these myths as I had 369 pellets that weighed 1.76 oz.  Once again, averaging out to weighing MORE than a #6.

[allaboutshooting]

I cut open one 3" Winchester Longbeard shell with a stated 1.75 oz. of shot from Lot # LT1GH29. The "slug" was clear, intact and secure with only one noticeable void.

I removed the slug of resin and shot and weighed it. It weighed 1.80 oz. Then I fractured the slug and weighed the shot, after cleaning all of the resin off each individual pellet. The shot charge weighed exactly 1.75 oz. as stated.

Then I performed an actual count of all of the pellets. The actual count was 432. Using an accepted #6 lead pellet count per oz. of 218, a 1.75 oz. load would have 381 #6 pellets. So, in this particular shell there were an extra 51 pellets.

Here's a link to a site which displays widely accepted pellet counts and measurements and the one that I used for my examination http://www.hallowellco.com/shot_size_chart.htm

There are other charts that can be used and the pellet counts may vary from chart to chart. Since manufacturers are not required to disclose the exact composition of lead pellets, which may influence weight and hardness,  and there are no real SAAMI standards, those count numbers can differ.

Individual pellet weight will depend upon what and how much of each alloy (antimony, arsenic, etc.)  is added to the lead used in the pellets but the copper wash, commonly referred to as copper plate, adds very little.

You can see from the chart that #6 shot should be 2.79mm and #7 shot should be 2.59mm

Due to grading standards used by most manufacturers, the size of most common lead shot is pretty uniform. For example, lead shot must conform to the minimum size limits to be considered in the Still Target Shooting Championship.  Officials have cut open shells to verify sizes of pellets.

I prefer to us mm rather than inches when measuring such small things as shot because it gives me a more precise measurement.

Again, I cleaned off all of the resin that was clinging to the shot, that took a good bit of time since it clings very tightly to each pellet and binds some together but measuring the shot with that resin on it could badly skew the results.

To be very clear and fair and also so that I did not have to count all 432 pellets, I simply scooped up a random sample of pellets and measured them in mms.

Here are the exact measurements of the 23 pellets in the load that I measured:

2.67
2.55
2.52
2.57
2.75
2.59
2.59
2.73
2.54
2.74
2.67
2.65
2.79
2.64
2.59
2.61
2.60
2.59
2.61
2.62
2.75
2.72
2.65

That represents a random count of about 5% of the total pellet charge in that particular shell. Weighing the shot charge, separate from the encapsulating resin and performing a random count of a percentage of the cleaned pellets seems to be a fair method of evaluating the size of the pellets in that particular shell.

If I were to perform those same tests in 5 or 10 different shells, I might find results that were the same, similar or different results of course.

I have also cut open one 3" Longbeard shell with #4 shot and one 3.5" shell with #4 shot. I found weights of the cleaned shot charges to be exact on those shells as well. There were some differences in the encapsulating resin in both clarity and integrity. I suspect that has to do with the size of the shot but have not cut open any  additional #4 shot shells to verify or support that supposition.

I have not cut open any of the #5 shot shells.

I have not cut open the corresponding #5 shot shells.

I hope that helps some.

Thanks,
Clark

[klemsontigers7]

Thanks for that.  The #6 3" that I cut open had 369, counted by 2 different people.  I guess there is some slight variation there.  My shell averaged .11135" which, as you know, is SLIGHTLY larger than #6.

[SKFOOTER]

Thanks for that.  The #6 3" that I cut open had 369, counted by 2 different people.  I guess there is some slight variation there.  My shell averaged .11135" which, as you know, is SLIGHTLY larger than #6.

Was your Lot # the same as Clark's???

[allaboutshooting]

Thanks for that.  The #6 3" that I cut open had 369, counted by 2 different people.  I guess there is some slight variation there.  My shell averaged .11135" which, as you know, is SLIGHTLY larger than #6.

You're welcome. Shotshells are shotshells and we see differences at the patterning board or in targets in competition very often. It's a time consuming process, as you know, to really examine in detail the contents of a shell. Physically removing the resin from that shot took more time than anything else of course as you know. It's tenacious stuff!

Thanks,
Clark

[klemsontigers7]

Thanks for that.  The #6 3" that I cut open had 369, counted by 2 different people.  I guess there is some slight variation there.  My shell averaged .11135" which, as you know, is SLIGHTLY larger than #6.

You're welcome. Shotshells are shotshells and we see differences at the patterning board or in targets in competition very often. It's a time consuming process, as you know, to really examine in detail the contents of a shell. Physically removing the resin from that shot took longer more time than anything else of course as you know. It's tenacious stuff!

Thanks,
Clark

Yep, I took a copper tube and put end caps on it.  Put the shot in there with a couple of copper threaded fittings floating around in there with sharp edges to knock the resin off.  I only did that AFTER measuring 10 pellets.  The 10 that I actually measured had all of their resin removed individually.  For the total weight (minus resin) I used the copper tube shake method, it was very fast but I did lose a small amount of copper plating.

[SKFOOTER]

I'm gonna ask you again, klemson.  Was your Lot # the same as Clark's?

[klemsontigers7]

I'm gonna ask you again, klemson.  Was your Lot # the same as Clark's?

I was at work earlier. My lot number was LT1GH15

[highwaygun]

So only one pellet of the 23 was a true #6 and 16 of the 23 were actually #7 interesting

[owlhoot]

   That would explain the up to 70 more pellets in the paper for a 6 shot lead load.
Lead 7's at 40?
Hey some like them from the Fed 7 lead posts.
What do think?

[lakeplainshunter]

So are the 5s more like 6s then?  I can only find 5s around here.

[owlhoot]

Sorry, have not found any info on the 5 shot yet or seen pattern count on the whole big papers.
Would think with all the patterns though someone would have did it.

They 4's seem to be normal counts so far. Patterns good, nothing crazy in the 10 but darn good that will wreck  any turkeys day!

[klemsontigers7]

So only one pellet of the 23 was a true #6 and 16 of the 23 were actually #7 interesting

The #6 I cut open had 4,5,6 and 7s in it. With an average between 5&6 but a lot closer to 6.

[outdoors]

SO THIS IS A > MAG BLEND <   

[klemsontigers7]

Clark would you like to trade boxes with me?  I have 18 shells from this lot, I would prefer 7 size.