Win Long Beard vs HTL....are we getting carried away?

[gophert]

I was discussing with another member about the possibility of more wounded birds due to the increased pattern density of the new lead shells such as Win. Long Beard and Federal Turkey thugs.  I admit, I am seeing some fantastic patterns at 40 yards.  Some perhaps even better than some heavier than lead (HTL) patterns. Although I am excited to see these shell manufacturer start to get into the game of good patterns, at the end of the day, the downrange penetration of lead vs HTL is really not even comparable.  I have always thought that lead was good out to about 35 yards, but if you really wanted to stretch your killing range, HTL was the only lethal choice day in and day out.  Yes ,there is always going to be that hunter that killed a bird with lead at 70 yards, but on average I have always felt lead was a 35 yard and in shell.  Here are a few pictures showing some penetration test a friend of my did.  Both are at 40 yards.  I know it's not exact science, but it does make me wonder if we should lower our expectations of these new lead loads to what they should be, a very dense pattern under 40 yrds. 

What are your thoughts?

[knightrider]

lol !!! out to 40 lead will kill every bird walking!!! come on hevi is not a have to have shell!! a turkeys neck is not near as hard to break as a piece of metal is to penetrate not a fair comparison.

[gophert]

lol !!! out to 40 lead will kill every bird walking!!! come on hevi is not a have to have shell!! a turkeys neck is not near as hard to break as a piece of metal is to penetrate not a fair comparison.

Not the point I was trying to ask.  I'm not asking if you think I am right or wrong. I realize lead will kill at 40.  I am asking do you think these new lead loads will cause hunters to have a false sense of security on long range shots?

[knightrider]

no more than any other shell that is out there, people are always going to push the limits!! we both know if they keep at 40 and in no problem its those who want to stroke their ego and kill something instead of letting it walk at 60 yards that wound birds with all shells made!!

[davisd9]

Yes they will, especially if they are using lead 6s.  #5s I have always felt comfortable at 40 but 6s should be 35 or under, possibly even 30 or under.  Plenty here will say I killed this at this range and that and that range with this shell, but I have had to run down turkeys before at overestimated ranges with 6s that friends shot and I do not like to run.  If one uses lead then great, but be ethical and logical with it and the same with anyone that shoots a heavier than lead shell. 

[chatterbox]

no more than any other shell that is out there, people are always going to push the limits!! we both know if they keep at 40 and in no problem its those who want to stroke their ego and kill something instead of letting it walk at 60 yards that wound birds with all shells made!!

The problem lies in the marketing. Everyone wants HTL results without HTL price.
Sooooooooo, Winchester comes out with a fantastic marketing ploy that is telling the avg. Joe turkey hunter it doesn't matter if it is lead, I can whack ol' Tom at 60 yards 'cause I'm shooting Winchester Longbeards!
Now, I shoot HTL. I will not, I repeat will not knowingly shoot at a turkey beyond 40 yards. Heck, I like them at 25-30, which is a perfectly fine range for any shell, but I love the density of HTL.
I also know if I did make a mistake, and it was a little beyond 40, my shell will anchor him.
This shell is gonna cause problems. Mark my words.

[Xcal1ber]

Yes lead will kill turkey's out to 40 yards all day. I was crow hunting today and killing stupid crows at 50 yards with 7.5 shot through a modified choke. I know they are not as tough as turkeys, but it is proportional when you factor in turkey chokes and big shotshells. I do think that the Long beards will give people a false sense of security simply because the box says you can kill them at 70 yards away!

[Deputy 14]

 

[trkehunr93]

I believe the real point is anyone that markets a lethal killing range beyond 40 yards encourages a false sense of security and Hevi-Shot has and now Winchester is guilty of it.  We are humans and it is natural for us to want more so we push our limits.  Mark Banser helped open the door of maximizing your killing range with his shotgun work he did in the 80's, custom choke maufacturers followed suit and ammo companies next.  Then with the introduction of HTL in the early 2000's we took it even further.  Know your gun and know your limits and if you want to push those limits then be able to face the consequences, i.e. an unethical shot at a ridiculous range.  It all comes down to choice.  My 2 cents!

[davisd9]

I believe the real point is anyone that markets a lethal killing range beyond 40 yards encourages a false sense of security and Hevi-Shot has and now Winchester is guilty of it.  We are humans and it is natural for us to want more so we push our limits.  Mark Banser helped open the door of maximizing your killing range with his shotgun work he did in the 80's, custom choke maufacturers followed suit and ammo companies next.  Then with the introduction of HTL in the early 2000's we took it even further.  Know your gun and know your limits and if you want to push those limits then be able to face the consequences, i.e. an unethical shot at a ridiculous range.  It all comes down to choice.  My 2 cents!

Good post!

[stinkpickle]

I'd guess that most of the dudes that will attempt to make the crazy long shots have probably done it before anyway.

[SumToy]

Well We have had the stuff for sometime testing it.  Now I will say it has made go wow.  Now I have said from the first shot we was in trouble.  I think it is a dead bird all day long at 40 yards. It is a missed bird at 25 and in if you don't know your gun.   I think that it has a safety net built in that if you miss read the bird that will give you kills past that mark.  NOW THE THING WITH THAT IS IF MISS READ KILL HIM SAY 43.  NEXT TIME IT WILL BE 45 THEN 48 AND SO ON.  Folks have got into killing paper not birds.  This stuff is like HTL it will kill PAPER birds a long ways.  This shell is like HTL loads you have got to know your gun and your set up in the woods.  Folks need to spend more time with this shell at 20 yards then at 40 yards.  I have tested this stuff and have came to the conclusion that it is almost a between 30 an 40 yard shell for the average hunter.  It is a out to 40 yards shell for the guys that spend the time to learn gun. 

[jblackburn]

Just saw a Mag Blend Commercial that showed lethal range to 75 yards.  It's advertisement, they bank on the "drool factor" when putting these ads together.  I've killed a truckload of turkeys with #6 Winchester leads, most of them 3 inch. Two years ago I started using hevi 6s in my new 870, I've never shot a bird past 35 yards with hevi shot.  I know every bird would have been dead with lead, but I am totally impressed with the devastation from hevi!  They have yet to flop when I hit them with hevi!

Personally, I really try to limit my shots to 40 and under, lead or hevi. Isn't it more fun to have them at 25 yards than at 60?

[surehuntsalot]

Just saw a Mag Blend Commercial that showed lethal range to 75 yards.  It's advertisement, they bank on the "drool factor" when putting these ads together.  I've killed a truckload of turkeys with #6 Winchester leads, most of them 3 inch. Two years ago I started using hevi 6s in my new 870, I've never shot a bird past 35 yards with hevi shot.  I know every bird would have been dead with lead, but I am totally impressed with the devastation from hevi!  They have yet to flop when I hit them with hevi!

Personally, I really try to limit my shots to 40 and under, lead or hevi. Isn't it more fun to have them at 25 yards than at 60?

always has been alot more fun at 25yds than 60

[owlhoot]

25 yards spittin and a drumming, just got done hammering 3 times at your last call. You swear you felt the ground shake! Now thats a picture for a turkey hunting advertisement.

Does not matter if longbeard , Hevi 13 or Fed. HW is your paint brush of choice.

Nah , not just a picture that is a freakin Rembrandt !