Win Long Beard vs HTL....are we getting carried away?

[allaboutshooting]

Well We have had the stuff for sometime testing it.  Now I will say it has made go wow.  Now I have said from the first shot we was in trouble.  I think it is a dead bird all day long at 40 yards. It is a missed bird at 25 and in if you don't know your gun.   I think that it has a safety net built in that if you miss read the bird that will give you kills past that mark.  NOW THE THING WITH THAT IS IF MISS READ KILL HIM SAY 43.  NEXT TIME IT WILL BE 45 THEN 48 AND SO ON.  Folks have got into killing paper not birds.  This stuff is like HTL it will kill PAPER birds a long ways.  This shell is like HTL loads you have got to know your gun and your set up in the woods.  Folks need to spend more time with this shell at 20 yards then at 40 yards.  I have tested this stuff and have came to the conclusion that it is almost a between 30 an 40 yard shell for the average hunter.  It is a out to 40 yards shell for the guys that spend the time to learn gun.

Well said.

Thanks,
Clark

[Tom Foolery]

We are not the issue, we are the minority.  We pattern our guns, we know for the most part what shot size will do what where and more importantly we know what is BS.  It's the new guys/people coming into the sport that don't have someone to really help them that get caught up in this stuff.  We all want them gobbling down the barrel at us, they just want to kill something for the most part, we all do but you know how it is being new.  They see this 75yd range and that's the extra edge, they don't have to be as good as a seasoned guy to get one close, they just need to be able to see one.  They shoot, they miss or worse injure one and they are out of the game.  We look at LBXR as a shell that fills in holes @ 40yds and in, they see it as a way to be more successful by stretching their range.  Same reason lots of new guys buy a magnum rifle, they think it gives them more range/more advantages.


We were talking about this I need it now mentality in the gym the other day, people want the most for the least.  They want to have 5% bodyfat, bench 500lbs, run like a deer, and train for 30 mins a day.  It's no different than most of the new stuff created for hunting.

[SumToy]

Sad thing is it is on the box of shells in t places talking the long 60 yard stuff.  Now that is the only problem I see with it.  It is marketing and new guys fall for the marketing BS.   It looks good, someone said it will on TV, and the guys that built it said it will so it has to. 

I am ready to get the phone calls this year.  All the guys have got tied up in the 40 yard number games. (Part my fault because I post it but that what it takes to sale).  Think we will see a lot of missed birds or Bloody cant post on web pics.

[gophert]

Great Discussion everyone!!!!!!!!!

I think Tom Foolery is right and so are you SumToy.  I even think we as experienced shooters sometimes contribute to the madness by posting up these patterns for everyone to see.  However, I think by doing that, we do clarify what it takes to get those patterns and maybe that is a win.  Hopefully the newcomer will see that some Winchester Long Beard in papaw's old 12 ga with a fixed modified choke is not the key to killing a turkey a super long distances.

As most of you know, I handload TSS in all my turkey shells.  It's not that I want to sniper a bird at 70+ yards like HeviShot says is capable, but because I enjoy all aspects of the sport.  To me, you have to be a turkey crazed nut (guilty) to load shells that cost in the range of $10 per shell, but it's more of a hobby and adds to my enjoyment of the sport.  I can only think of one time when I have shot a bird over the 40 yard mark. I too like them up close and rattling the ground with a gobble because that's what makes my heart beat like guy who drinks 10 5 hour energy shots.  However, I know when I hit the woods, pretty much down to the pellet count how my gun will perform at all distances.  Why? Not because I saw it on a box or on a forum, but because I have shot it already.  Carry on!

[TrackeySauresRex]

Great Discussion everyone!!!!!!!!!
   However, I know when I hit the woods, pretty much down to the pellet count how my gun will perform at all distances.  Why? Not because I saw it on a box or on a forum, but because I have shot it already.   

Well Stated!  X-2

[R AJ]

Yeah, and after 50 + years I had finally trained my birds to hang up at 45-50 yds. Now I've got to retrain them again and my spring time events are becoming somewhat numbered. Oh well.

[3" 870 Shell Shucker]

No, we aren't getting carried away at all.  If we truly mean all that 40 Yard Limit stuff we talk about, and there are Lead loads on the shelf that will shoot 110+ at 40 with #4's, 130+ at 40 with #5's, or 150+ at 40 with #6's..............why do we need to keep using HTL for 40 Yard shots?

I've gotten above 130 with #5 Win Sup HV in my BPS, and above 130 with #5 Win SuperX in my 870.  I've also gotten 140 with the #6 Thugs in my 870.  All 3" Shells.  I haven't even tried the Long Beard shells yet.  I'm through buying expensive HTL.....................as long as Lead is legal.

[ericjames]

No, we aren't getting carried away at all.  If we truly mean all that 40 Yard Limit stuff we talk about, and there are Lead loads on the shelf that will shoot 110+ at 40 with #4's, 130+ at 40 with #5's, or 150+ at 40 with #6's..............why do we need to keep using HTL for 40 Yard shots?

I've gotten above 130 with #5 Win Sup HV in my BPS, and above 130 with #5 Win SuperX in my 870.  I've also gotten 140 with the #6 Thugs in my 870.  All 3" Shells.  I haven't even tried the Long Beard shells yet.  I'm through buying expensive HTL.....................as long as Lead is legal.

That's how I feel also.. Heck I don't care if it's legal or not.  If lead become illegal, I will shoot it until I run out.

[allaboutshooting]

My level of concern is rising since I see more and more articles about shooting at turkeys beyond 40, 50 and even 60 yards. The last 3 or 4 hunting/shooting magazines I have received have either had an article or referenced a video in which those very long shots are discussed as normal with a very short disclaimer about not really advocating "long" shots.

OG set the standard several years ago and asked its members to refrain from discussing shots over 40 yards or posting pictures of patterns shot over 40 yards. That is a responsible position to take and I applaud Shannon for taking a stance, long before these new shells were introduced.

As has been stated, we who pattern our guns and act responsibly are not the problem. New hunters and shooters however may be wooed by the thought of shooting that bird that's just a little too far. Several years about I wrote an article that was published by T&TH about not playing to the crowd.

What I tried to convey in that article was that turkey hunting should be an enjoyable sport that allows us to spend time in the woods and see the wonders of nature. When a hunter feels pressure to kill a bird and show all of his friends, playing to the crowd, it becomes a competition of sorts and loses the real value of the experience.

Each of us must examine his conscience and think about what we say and do, here, on other sites and with our friends and hunting buddies. We need to especially careful about what we say to new hunters who will look to us for guidance and acceptance.

Years ago a skybuster in the goose pits, a hunter who shot over his limit or one who took irresponsible shots was not accepted by most hunters. I'm not advocating shunning hunters but I am advocating trying to educate those with less experience and being a good example to everyone.

Thanks,
Clark

[BowBendr]

Folks need to spend more time with this shell at 20 yards then at 40 yards.

Interesting observation. Well said William. 

[Rem Man]

   I have been reading this thread and look at this way. Ammo manufactures are of course going to say there shell is the best or better than others shells (It's called marketing!) but seasoned hunters know when it is time to pull the trigger and when its not period. If you are a hunter like myself who has tried that 50 or so yard shot to watch that big gobbler roll over and get up and fly away, it makes you sick in the stomach and you say to yourself, (Damn i shouldn't have shot I knew it was to far!!!) well guess what if it happens again and he is to far, sit back and just watch what the Good Lord Gave Us ( The sport of hunting!) and just wait for that perfect shot next time! I guess what im trying to say is a good hunter won't shoot past his or hers limitations no matter what shell they are shooting. I love the sport of turkey hunting!! and try to do the best and make the best decisions everytime im out. I think to adverstise 50, 60, and 70 yards shots are crazy to say the least, get to know your gun and what it will do. I THINK THAT IF PEOPLE WOULD SHOOT A SHELL NO MATTER WHAT IT IS AT 50, 60, and 70 YARDS I THINK YOU WOULD SOON FIND OUT THAT IT IS NOT CAPABLE OF CLEANLY TAKING A TURKEY, and also take into consideration that if you would shoot 60 yards and get say 50-80 pellets in a 10 inch circle thats fine but that is usually in an open gun range with no bushes sticks limbs and other obsticles that you face in a real life hunting situation. GOOD LUCK TO EVERYBODY I HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT SEASON, AND JUST REMEMBER GO AND HAVE FUN AND ENJOY THE DAY!!!!!!

[CASH]

Well said Clark

[SCDieselDawg]

Good discussion guys!!

I know people who have taken and will continue to take excessively long shots at turkeys. Most have no clue how their guns pattern at any distance! They usually don't know much about their setups gun,choke,shells. Most of the time they live by the it only takes a couple pellets in the head to kill a turkey thought. They have some success, and plenty of excuses for missing/wounding turkeys. I have a good friend who is this way and I have quit hunting with him due to this matter.

[Thegobblergetter]

Well said Clark and SumToy!!!  The idea of the game is to bring that ole Tom as close as possible to you without it jumping into your lap!!  Go out and enjoy the woods and all God's creatures.  John

[pdaugherty]

I agree with Chatterbox on this one, I shoot HEVI just incase I miss judge the distance on a bird. Any of us that have turkey hunted for sometime know we've all done this and seen it done. The final result we all look for is a humane kill on a bird we've called in to range. This is where knowing your gun and the pattern it shoots is critical. The comfort of knowing if I misjudge i'll still make a good kill is what the HEVI-shot gives me. Plus they don't flop after the shot!