No More Lead

[Spurs]

Non-toxic shot began in waterfowl due to high concentrations of hunting in some areas creating a situation where birds were eating lead and dying of lead poisoning in large numbers...

Honestly, there was good reason to stop the use of lead "in some areas."

But lead does not leach into soil or water, and has to be ingested...

Anti-hunters have successfully created marketing advocating against the use of lead as a poison to create new restrictions which have made it far more difficult and expensive to hunters...  Claims that animals (such as condors) will eat lead contaminated gut piles of deer and die from lead poisoning...

Been completely non-tox in California for a while...  Not allowed to purchase ammo online, and need a background check to purchase ammo here.

I have gotten used to hunting waterfowl with steel, but despise doing so for dove, quail, pheasants, etc...  Premium shot is vastly too expensive to use on high volume shooting such as dove or quail...   Copper bullets are quite expensive (especially for small game and high volume).

Premium shot for turkeys is a no-brainer though...  Even at $10 per shot, it is well worth it to shoot something vastly more effective than steel, and even lead for 2-4 shells fired per season.

I have also found it more difficult to get my kids into the hunting game with non-toxic.  More difficult to hit and kill dove/quail, with ammunition that does not work as well, is more expensive, and recoils considerably more than cheap lead target loads.

One interesting theory behind the elevated lead levels in ducks back then was the piping that was generally used back then was metal.  Most irrigation pipe has been changed now.  I have always been curious of the validity of the original studies as they do not mention testing the fields/timber that was flooded or where the water came from.

[Old Timer]

Guess all the tss haters are going to have to quit turkey hunting and thus reduce the pressure so there's room for the tss loving nonresidents.

is that suppose to be funny? It`s not. That said I used none lead during big game season last fall and took 3 nice deer. Using tss in my 20 this year and lead in my 12. I have tried to be pro active realizing these moronic laws are on their way. Good day.

[joey46]

 Without reading most of these comments I'll spin this story.  In the 1990s long before I retired and moved to western Kentucky it was heavily rumored that lead was to banned on any federally controlled land.  At that time I was using only #5 HV lead.  I switched to either bismuth or hevi and haven't looked back.  Plenty of no tox loadings available for muzzleloaders. Not a concern. Changing times.

[sasquatch1]

Non-toxic shot began in waterfowl due to high concentrations of hunting in some areas creating a situation where birds were eating lead and dying of lead poisoning in large numbers...

Honestly, there was good reason to stop the use of lead "in some areas."

But lead does not leach into soil or water, and has to be ingested...

Anti-hunters have successfully created marketing advocating against the use of lead as a poison to create new restrictions which have made it far more difficult and expensive to hunters...  Claims that animals (such as condors) will eat lead contaminated gut piles of deer and die from lead poisoning...

Been completely non-tox in California for a while...  Not allowed to purchase ammo online, and need a background check to purchase ammo here.

I have gotten used to hunting waterfowl with steel, but despise doing so for dove, quail, pheasants, etc...  Premium shot is vastly too expensive to use on high volume shooting such as dove or quail...   Copper bullets are quite expensive (especially for small game and high volume).

Premium shot for turkeys is a no-brainer though...  Even at $10 per shot, it is well worth it to shoot something vastly more effective than steel, and even lead for 2-4 shells fired per season.

I have also found it more difficult to get my kids into the hunting game with non-toxic.  More difficult to hit and kill dove/quail, with ammunition that does not work as well, is more expensive, and recoils considerably more than cheap lead target loads.

One interesting theory behind the elevated lead levels in ducks back then was the piping that was generally used back then was metal.  Most irrigation pipe has been changed now.  I have always been curious of the validity of the original studies as they do not mention testing the fields/timber that was flooded or where the water came from.

I highly doubt lead shot was actually making a measurable distance.

One can always find ways to convince himself of a theory he wants to believe.

With the lifespan of the average duck on top of that? I just doubt it but I don't know.


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[mikejd]

The same water shed that they are protecting gets delivered through 100's of miles of lead piping in the city.
These people are morons they have no clue. Its all bullshit.

[mikejd]

The same water shed that they are protecting gets delivered through 100's of miles of lead piping in the city.
These people are morons they have no clue. Its all bullshit.

Plus its still ok to use on private land.

[Spurs]

Non-toxic shot began in waterfowl due to high concentrations of hunting in some areas creating a situation where birds were eating lead and dying of lead poisoning in large numbers...

Honestly, there was good reason to stop the use of lead "in some areas."

But lead does not leach into soil or water, and has to be ingested...

Anti-hunters have successfully created marketing advocating against the use of lead as a poison to create new restrictions which have made it far more difficult and expensive to hunters...  Claims that animals (such as condors) will eat lead contaminated gut piles of deer and die from lead poisoning...

Been completely non-tox in California for a while...  Not allowed to purchase ammo online, and need a background check to purchase ammo here.

I have gotten used to hunting waterfowl with steel, but despise doing so for dove, quail, pheasants, etc...  Premium shot is vastly too expensive to use on high volume shooting such as dove or quail...   Copper bullets are quite expensive (especially for small game and high volume).

Premium shot for turkeys is a no-brainer though...  Even at $10 per shot, it is well worth it to shoot something vastly more effective than steel, and even lead for 2-4 shells fired per season.

I have also found it more difficult to get my kids into the hunting game with non-toxic.  More difficult to hit and kill dove/quail, with ammunition that does not work as well, is more expensive, and recoils considerably more than cheap lead target loads.

One interesting theory behind the elevated lead levels in ducks back then was the piping that was generally used back then was metal.  Most irrigation pipe has been changed now.  I have always been curious of the validity of the original studies as they do not mention testing the fields/timber that was flooded or where the water came from.

I highly doubt lead shot was actually making a measurable distance.

One can always find ways to convince himself of a theory he wants to believe.

With the lifespan of the average duck on top of that? I just doubt it but I don't know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I tend to agree with your assessment too.  There are so many things that would have to happen for a duck to ingest the amount of lead it would take.  Plus, they digest and remove waste much faster than anyone really cares to think about. 

I feel like pressures from the non hunting crowd has a vastly larger role in hunting regulations Than anyone thinks.  Seems like it'd be much easier to slowly make hunting so hard and expensive that our crowd will slowly erode into nothing.

[Sir-diealot]

Non-toxic shot began in waterfowl due to high concentrations of hunting in some areas creating a situation where birds were eating lead and dying of lead poisoning in large numbers...

Honestly, there was good reason to stop the use of lead "in some areas."

But lead does not leach into soil or water, and has to be ingested...

Anti-hunters have successfully created marketing advocating against the use of lead as a poison to create new restrictions which have made it far more difficult and expensive to hunters...  Claims that animals (such as condors) will eat lead contaminated gut piles of deer and die from lead poisoning...

Been completely non-tox in California for a while...  Not allowed to purchase ammo online, and need a background check to purchase ammo here.

I have gotten used to hunting waterfowl with steel, but despise doing so for dove, quail, pheasants, etc...  Premium shot is vastly too expensive to use on high volume shooting such as dove or quail...   Copper bullets are quite expensive (especially for small game and high volume).

Premium shot for turkeys is a no-brainer though...  Even at $10 per shot, it is well worth it to shoot something vastly more effective than steel, and even lead for 2-4 shells fired per season.

I have also found it more difficult to get my kids into the hunting game with non-toxic.  More difficult to hit and kill dove/quail, with ammunition that does not work as well, is more expensive, and recoils considerably more than cheap lead target loads.

One interesting theory behind the elevated lead levels in ducks back then was the piping that was generally used back then was metal.  Most irrigation pipe has been changed now.  I have always been curious of the validity of the original studies as they do not mention testing the fields/timber that was flooded or where the water came from.

I highly doubt lead shot was actually making a measurable distance.

One can always find ways to convince himself of a theory he wants to believe.

With the lifespan of the average duck on top of that? I just doubt it but I don't know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I tend to agree with your assessment too.  There are so many things that would have to happen for a duck to ingest the amount of lead it would take.  Plus, they digest and remove waste much faster than anyone really cares to think about. 

I feel like pressures from the non hunting crowd has a vastly larger role in hunting regulations Than anyone thinks.  Seems like it'd be much easier to slowly make hunting so hard and expensive that our crowd will slowly erode into nothing.

Just like leasing, soon it will be like it was in England where only the kind and the rich folk could hunt.

[Marc]

I highly doubt lead shot was actually making a measurable distance.

One can always find ways to convince himself of a theory he wants to believe.

With the lifespan of the average duck on top of that? I just doubt it but I don't know.

Rember that duck hunting often takes place on marshes or refuges, with thousands of rounds being fired over small areas...  If the soil is shallow enough, ducks will ingest lethal amounts of lead...  And if not lethal, enough to weaken them for migration or breeding.

I took a biologies course in college with a professor who was not pro-hunting, but felt that hunting was a neccessary evil, due to the financial support of hunters...  He strongly felt that there were many areas in which the ground was soft enough that lead would sink into the ground too quickly to be problematic...  But...  There were areas where lead ingestion was a valid concern.

As far as how long ducks live?

Per banded birds: I shot one that was about 8 years old, my father shot a duck that was 9...  Buddy just killed a snow goose that was 22 years old this season.

But there is a huge difference between concentrated shooting over smaller acrerage of land, verses hunting vast expanses with few shots being fired...  The prospect of a quail in California, finding, much less eating enough lead to cause lead poisoning due to hunting is preposterous.

[sasquatch1]

I highly doubt lead shot was actually making a measurable distance.

One can always find ways to convince himself of a theory he wants to believe.

With the lifespan of the average duck on top of that? I just doubt it but I don't know.

Rember that duck hunting often takes place on marshes or refuges, with thousands of rounds being fired over small areas...  If the soil is shallow enough, ducks will ingest lethal amounts of lead...  And if not lethal, enough to weaken them for migration or breeding.

I took a biologies course in college with a professor who was not pro-hunting, but felt that hunting was a neccessary evil, due to the financial support of hunters...  He strongly felt that there were many areas in which the ground was soft enough that lead would sink into the ground too quickly to be problematic...  But...  There were areas where lead ingestion was a valid concern.

As far as how long ducks live?

Per banded birds: I shot one that was about 8 years old, my father shot a duck that was 9...  Buddy just killed a snow goose that was 22 years old this season.

But there is a huge difference between concentrated shooting over smaller acrerage of land, verses hunting vast expanses with few shots being fired...  The prospect of a quail in California, finding, much less eating enough lead to cause lead poisoning due to hunting is preposterous.

Long time duck hunter since a child

I understand all that and live on the edge of the gulf. Still, the areas are more open and spread out than it seems, also outside of field hunting it's usually all tidal which I'd think covers up a huge % of the shot but as I said IDK

Also on the age, sure some get old. But I'm talking average. I'd bet avg life span is 3-4 yrs old for ducks.

Now, I really don't care about using non toxic shot. It's when the rule cascades into rifle shot, I mean cmon. Rifle bullets aren't causing measurable damage to wildlife. There's way more things harming them than that
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[DROCK]

NY sucks!!

[Gooserbat]

Guess all the tss haters are going to have to quit turkey hunting and thus reduce the pressure so there's room for the tss loving nonresidents.

is that suppose to be funny? It`s not. That said I used none lead during big game season last fall and took 3 nice deer. Using tss in my 20 this year and lead in my 12. I have tried to be pro active realizing these moronic laws are on their way. Good day.

Yes and no.  Just wanting to draw attention to the ridiculousness of certain attitudes.

[Sir-diealot]

NY sucks!!

New York is wonderful, it is the politicians in NY that suck and New York City which keeps them there. The rest of the state is one of the most beautiful you will ever see.

[quavers59]

   How can this be enforced if there is no substitute  to buy or find in a large Quantity. 
   Even DEC will be hesitant  to write up a Fine.

[Marc]

   How can this be enforced if there is no substitute  to buy or find in a large Quantity. 
   Even DEC will be hesitant  to write up a Fine.

Not in California...  And likely not in New York.  And likely not in any state "progressive" enough to put such regulation into place.

While I do believe that in some cases of waterfowl that the use of non-toxic shot is likely necessary or beneficial...  The vast majority of hunting this is likely not the case.

In other words, the shift to non-toxic is likely more of a political anti-hunting initiative.   Shooting a turkey in the hills hills with a shotgun, or a deer with a bullet, will likely not have any deleterious effects, and virutally has no benefit towards conservation....

The goal is to make hunting less accessible and more expensive.  If you cannot find the appropriate ammunition to legally hunt game, that is YOUR problem, even if it is completely unavailable or prohibitively expensive.

People are having their hunting equipment (including dogs, guns, and vehicles) confinscated when being caught shooting lead at game (especially from the federal side shooting ducks).

There is also a paradigm shift with the wardens.  Even in California, 10 years ago the majority of wardens enjoyed hunting and/or fishing themselves...  Currently, there are more wardens that are becoming wardens who are opposed to hunting, and have a strong desire to make it as difficult as possible and write up a ticket given any opportunity.

That being said, most of the wardens I run into have been reasonable, and still on the side of the outdoorsman, but it is shifting.