Who uses a scope?

[the Ward]

I never had problems on the older 870's with the metal trigger groups, but the newer ones they
made with the plastic ones I have had issues with. If you tightened them down enough that the saddle
wouldn't move, it squeezed the receiver sides together and made the feeding malfunction. I
didn't have that issue with the older 870's. I never tried one on any of the Mossbergs, so I don't
know if they are prone to the same thing, being they have plastic trigger groups also, but I know guys that
have them on and they haven't had that issue at all.

[deathfoot]

Sir-diealot

I will definitely keep you posted. I'm hoping to get it dialed in the next month or so.

[jlw]

I've been using a Bushnell Trophy XLT scope in APG camo on my turkey gun for over three years now. The scope is 1.75-4 power scope, though I only use the lower power setting when hunting. Prior to mounting this scope on my shotgun I used a red dot scope for about seven years. I'll say this, since I started using scopes on my turkey guns I haven't missed a single bird that I've shot at. Can't say that about when I just used the open sights on the gun.

[Bowguy]

Imo with modern loads and chokes sights are typically needed. Scopes and red dot can be bumped off but with scopes you have no battery. Scopes are a better option imo and I have guns most ways. Guys state they have probs with moving birds. Sounds perhaps they aren't set properly. A good cheek weld with a properly adjusted comb and you're looking exactly through the scope. I see that as a non issue.

[Sir-diealot]

Imo with modern loads and chokes sights are typically needed. Scopes and red dot can be bumped off but with scopes you have no battery. Scopes are a better option imo and I have guns most ways. Guys state they have probs with moving birds. Sounds perhaps they aren't set properly. A good cheek weld with a properly adjusted comb and you're looking exactly through the scope. I see that as a non issue.

Or they have the scope turned up to high.

[BDeal]

Imo with modern loads and chokes sights are typically needed. Scopes and red dot can be bumped off but with scopes you have no battery. Scopes are a better option imo and I have guns most ways. Guys state they have probs with moving birds. Sounds perhaps they aren't set properly. A good cheek weld with a properly adjusted comb and you're looking exactly through the scope. I see that as a non issue.

I would agree. I shoot better with a scope regardless if the bird is moving or not and it has never cost me a turkey.

[Bowguy]

Imo with modern loads and chokes sights are typically needed. Scopes and red dot can be bumped off but with scopes you have no battery. Scopes are a better option imo and I have guns most ways. Guys state they have probs with moving birds. Sounds perhaps they aren't set properly. A good cheek weld with a properly adjusted comb and you're looking exactly through the scope. I see that as a non issue.

Or they have the scope turned up to high.

I'd not see a reason to use anything but a very low power fixed scope. It's cheaper and the magnification isnt necessary but you're bringing up a point I hadn't thought of

[joey46]

Just me - over the years (since late 1970s) have used several combos.  Scope was used on a 12 GA 870.  My biggest flaw here was range estimation and tracking a moving bird.  With a scope birds will look much closer than they actually are.  I sometimes use a .410 with a Sig red dot.  Fun and so far flawless.  I will always consider this a 30 yard gun for me.  When pushed came to shove in 2022 I took the 870 with the original double beaded Remington Turkey Express barrel on two long anticipated hunts.  One hunt required airline travel and I didn't want any chance of scope or red dot misalignment from rough baggage handling.  For me simpler is usually the best choice.  Scopes and red dots will add an additional chance of a glitch.

[Sir-diealot]

Imo with modern loads and chokes sights are typically needed. Scopes and red dot can be bumped off but with scopes you have no battery. Scopes are a better option imo and I have guns most ways. Guys state they have probs with moving birds. Sounds perhaps they aren't set properly. A good cheek weld with a properly adjusted comb and you're looking exactly through the scope. I see that as a non issue.

Or they have the scope turned up to high.

I'd not see a reason to use anything but a very low power fixed scope. It's cheaper and the magnification isnt necessary but you're bringing up a point I hadn't thought of

Mine is 1-4 but I just keep it at 1 I have not problems tracking then. I figure if I have it turned up to 4 I am more than likely shooting way to far anyway.

[gotitbad]

I put a Leupold Vx Freedom 1.5-4X20 Pig Plex on my Mossberg 935 ..Love it
You want something with good eye relief and have a solid hold / position on the gun. Don't want to get scope eye..

[Old Dominion Tom]

I guess it kind of depends on a lot of things...  These are just my opinions and may not be true for everyone and every situation.

Generally Speaking:
In general, if you plan to set your gun up to maximize core pattern density with the most advanced shells and custom choke tubes available today (TSS or Longbeards if using lead – both incredible product advancements), I believe you will benefit from some sort of aiming device (whether it be scope or red dot type sight).  Also, if you have a shotgun whose POI varies significantly relative to POA, then you will greatly benefit with the addition of an adjustable aiming device.

If you plan to hunt with old school style "standard" lead turkey loads (Winchester Super X, Remington Nitro or Premier, etc.) and use a moderately choked turkey tube, you might expect to see a pretty forgiving pattern that is still able to scrape together enough density to get the job done at 35 to 40 yards.  Under this scenario, as long as you have a gun that shoots a pretty close POI to POA, you likely can get by just fine with a factory bead if you keep your shots under 40 yards (in some specific cases you might even do much better than "just fine" and it might really shine relative to other setups).

Scope Positives ( I had Nikon 1.5 – 4X on a saddle mount on an 870 Super Mag years ago):
Precisely dial POI to POA, weight (both plus and minus) – the weight will soak up a bit of recoil energy, unless you use a comb raising device the added height of the scope gets your cheek bone up off the stock taking some of the recoil bite away, confidence in that if the cross hairs are on target when the trigger is pulled the densest part of the pattern will be centered on the bird's head.

Scope Negatives:
Weight (a little heavier rig to tote around), scope and mount makes the gun a bit top heavier when resting it on your knee (it tends to want to flop over more easily), your eye must be very well aligned to the scope to get a good sight picture (somewhat limiting you if you have to be severely contorted to get off a shot), even with a low power large FOV model, you lose view of the "big picture" if one has managed to work in close.

Related Story:
I had one that was closing very quickly, but was on the opposite side of a steep ravine from me.  I didn't think I would have time to cross the ravine and find a setup without risking busting the bird.  When I set up at the location I was aware of the ravine and I had every intention of making the shot across the very steep sided ravine.  The opposite edge was about 30 yards away and I figured he very well might hang up on the other side or at least present a shot opportunity.  I sat close to the edge of my side of the ravine to keep the far side edge easily in range.  Things did not pan out for me to get a good shot on the opposing ledge before he dropped into the steep cut.  Due to the relatively flat ground on either side of the ravine and me slouched very low at the base of my tree, I quickly lost sight of him as he crossed the ravine.  I could hear him closing the distance working through the ravine bottom and up my side.  As he climbed my side of the ravine I tried to line up for the shot on where I thought he would pop up based on the sound of his footsteps.  He would only be five yards away when he came out of the ravine.  I could not look through my scope in order that I might be able to spot him immediately when his head started to emerge.  He popped up a few feet off from where he sounded like he would show.  So now he is nearly in my lap, head periscoped up, and I don't have my eye properly aligned to the scope.  Now I have to manage to get my eye lined up with the scope, find him in the scope, and pull the shot off before he gets out of dodge (not easily done when one is on top of you).  I managed to get on him and kill him before he bolted, but nearly missed him – barely caught him enough with the fringe of my pattern.  If I were centered properly on him I would have decapitated him at that range.  That was when I decided to go away from the scope.  This was a somewhat unusual scenario, I was setup in a non-ideal situation, and I did wind up getting the bird,... however, at the moment he dropped into that ravine and out of sight I sure was wishing I had just a plain old bead when he popped up.  So 95% of the time the scope would probably be absolutely wonderful – and I did comfortably kill a few birds with that scope setup prior to this event.

Red dot heads up type sight positives: (I currently have a FF3 on a 20 ga 870)
Lightweight, able to dial POI to POA, confidence in that if dot is on target at the shot, pattern center is heading on target, able to accurately shoot even when head is not perfectly aligned, able to see the entire "big picture" at all times (you lose this when you tunnel view into a scope), small units do not make gun top heavy when resting on your knee.

Red dot heads up type sight negatives:
Requires batteries that could fail at inopportune times, although I haven't knocked mine out of alignment, they appear to be more fragile than a scope and certainly less robust than a bead sight.

I have a couple of guns setup "old school" (bead, old style lead turkey loads, moderately choked) and the 20 ga 870 setup with a FF3 and configurations to shoot tight cores with several choke/load combos (HS13, HW15, TSS, and Longbeard).  Although I don't currently use the scope mentioned in the story above, I still have it and the saddle mount.  Who knows, may pull it out again one day to have something to piddle with.  But if I could only go one way it would likely be forgiving setup with factory bead, or a heads up style red dot (like FF3) – especially if shooting a very tight patterning setup.

[deathfoot]

I put a Leupold Vx Freedom 1.5-4X20 Pig Plex on my Mossberg 935 ..Love it
You want something with good eye relief and have a solid hold / position on the gun. Don't want to get scope eye..

I have this exact scope, which I had hydro dipped. I haven't mounted it yet. But I'm excited about it.

[GobbleNut]

Old Dominion Tom:  Great, well-organized, and well-thought-out post.  Thanks for taking the time!   

[Tom007]

I guess it kind of depends on a lot of things...  These are just my opinions and may not be true for everyone and every situation.

Generally Speaking:
In general, if you plan to set your gun up to maximize core pattern density with the most advanced shells and custom choke tubes available today (TSS or Longbeards if using lead – both incredible product advancements), I believe you will benefit from some sort of aiming device (whether it be scope or red dot type sight).  Also, if you have a shotgun whose POI varies significantly relative to POA, then you will greatly benefit with the addition of an adjustable aiming device.

If you plan to hunt with old school style "standard" lead turkey loads (Winchester Super X, Remington Nitro or Premier, etc.) and use a moderately choked turkey tube, you might expect to see a pretty forgiving pattern that is still able to scrape together enough density to get the job done at 35 to 40 yards.  Under this scenario, as long as you have a gun that shoots a pretty close POI to POA, you likely can get by just fine with a factory bead if you keep your shots under 40 yards (in some specific cases you might even do much better than "just fine" and it might really shine relative to other setups).

Scope Positives ( I had Nikon 1.5 – 4X on a saddle mount on an 870 Super Mag years ago):
Precisely dial POI to POA, weight (both plus and minus) – the weight will soak up a bit of recoil energy, unless you use a comb raising device the added height of the scope gets your cheek bone up off the stock taking some of the recoil bite away, confidence in that if the cross hairs are on target when the trigger is pulled the densest part of the pattern will be centered on the bird's head.

Scope Negatives:
Weight (a little heavier rig to tote around), scope and mount makes the gun a bit top heavier when resting it on your knee (it tends to want to flop over more easily), your eye must be very well aligned to the scope to get a good sight picture (somewhat limiting you if you have to be severely contorted to get off a shot), even with a low power large FOV model, you lose view of the "big picture" if one has managed to work in close.

Related Story:
I had one that was closing very quickly, but was on the opposite side of a steep ravine from me.  I didn't think I would have time to cross the ravine and find a setup without risking busting the bird.  When I set up at the location I was aware of the ravine and I had every intention of making the shot across the very steep sided ravine.  The opposite edge was about 30 yards away and I figured he very well might hang up on the other side or at least present a shot opportunity.  I sat close to the edge of my side of the ravine to keep the far side edge easily in range.  Things did not pan out for me to get a good shot on the opposing ledge before he dropped into the steep cut.  Due to the relatively flat ground on either side of the ravine and me slouched very low at the base of my tree, I quickly lost sight of him as he crossed the ravine.  I could hear him closing the distance working through the ravine bottom and up my side.  As he climbed my side of the ravine I tried to line up for the shot on where I thought he would pop up based on the sound of his footsteps.  He would only be five yards away when he came out of the ravine.  I could not look through my scope in order that I might be able to spot him immediately when his head started to emerge.  He popped up a few feet off from where he sounded like he would show.  So now he is nearly in my lap, head periscoped up, and I don't have my eye properly aligned to the scope.  Now I have to manage to get my eye lined up with the scope, find him in the scope, and pull the shot off before he gets out of dodge (not easily done when one is on top of you).  I managed to get on him and kill him before he bolted, but nearly missed him – barely caught him enough with the fringe of my pattern.  If I were centered properly on him I would have decapitated him at that range.  That was when I decided to go away from the scope.  This was a somewhat unusual scenario, I was setup in a non-ideal situation, and I did wind up getting the bird,... however, at the moment he dropped into that ravine and out of sight I sure was wishing I had just a plain old bead when he popped up.  So 95% of the time the scope would probably be absolutely wonderful – and I did comfortably kill a few birds with that scope setup prior to this event.

Red dot heads up type sight positives: (I currently have a FF3 on a 20 ga 870)
Lightweight, able to dial POI to POA, confidence in that if dot is on target at the shot, pattern center is heading on target, able to accurately shoot even when head is not perfectly aligned, able to see the entire "big picture" at all times (you lose this when you tunnel view into a scope), small units do not make gun top heavy when resting on your knee.

Red dot heads up type sight negatives:
Requires batteries that could fail at inopportune times, although I haven't knocked mine out of alignment, they appear to be more fragile than a scope and certainly less robust than a bead sight.

I have a couple of guns setup "old school" (bead, old style lead turkey loads, moderately choked) and the 20 ga 870 setup with a FF3 and configurations to shoot tight cores with several choke/load combos (HS13, HW15, TSS, and Longbeard).  Although I don't currently use the scope mentioned in the story above, I still have it and the saddle mount.  Who knows, may pull it out again one day to have something to piddle with.  But if I could only go one way it would likely be forgiving setup with factory bead, or a heads up style red dot (like FF3) – especially if shooting a very tight patterning setup.

Great info, well done. Lots of solid points here. I have a variety of optic set-ups, scopes and red dots. I use different guns for different terrain and styles of hunts from decoy sits (mostly in bad weather) to running & gunning covering lots of ground. There is one optic set-up that I think can eliminate some of the "negatives" outlined above. It involves a Red Dot sight mounted on the ventilated rib using a Meadow Creek Mount. Most of you know this mount, it has a plate that sits under the rib between the posts and will fit the particular Red Dot mounting plate. When you order the mount, you specify which Red Dot your using. Here's the positives on this set-up:

Sits as low as your going to get, pretty much on plane with the rib. This helps to eliminate the need for a comb or cheek-piece on the stock.

The Red Dot is mounted more forward on the gun according to the rib post locations and personal preference. I know a lot of guys think this set-up is "weird", but I actually like it and see its benefits. The fact that it sits further out on the gun gives you that field of view that scopes can hinder you with. The Red Dot is small, you can look right over or around it still keeping your head down on the comb. Sight acquisition on a moving bird is basically the same as using beads. This set up gives you perfect POA, and has the benefit of a good field of view.

Finally, this set up does not add much weight to your gun, unlike Scopes, base and ring mounts. There is no gun smithing required using this mount.

Finally, it all boils down to personal preference when it comes to optics. They all have there place for those who choose them. Be safe, great info.....

[Bowguy]

Fellas, not to intentionally deviate from the subject but something I wanted to add regarding scopes. We don't know who's reading or what info they're trying to gain. A consideration would be an aim point with a scope. If the turkey is very close the shot will hit lower than the scope a couple inches. Some people pick the feather/skin line as a poa. That may put the shot close to the beard depending on head angle of bird. You may need to adjust slightly for super close shots.