Shooting Hens???

[bigriverbum]

sometimes i get kind of bored with this site and wonder why i keep checking in

then i read posts like quavers59 and eggshell just posted and i remember that this is a really great place

[Sir-diealot]

I agree scattergun, but maybe not as harshly. I hope I never get caught up so emotionally that I would shame someone for a legal harvest. It's wrong and inconsiderate. He has every right to be proud of his hen, he worked hard for it and obeyed the laws. Ethics are not regulated by governments, they are acted on by individuals and are developed by each person's own perspective and thus tenuous. I have watched ethical discussions derail so often it is actually annoying. We will always make our own choices. The best standard we can apply to others is not to judge them on our own feelings, but by what is actually legal, beyond that is an individual choice.

If you read through this thread you know I support fall hunting and yes hen harvest in a healthy flock and as is legal. I use science and biology to determine my position and so does the agencies that regulate harvest. Most of the opposition I see is heavily weighted by feelings and very little science, including the judgmental statements.

I do not feel it is wise it shame anyone, I have never liked that, I do feel if I believe I see a problem in the area I am in that I should say something and in my area killing a hen is destroying the future, we just don't have many strong flocks left in my area anymore.

That said I have seen people shame people for taking deer that did not meet their feelings of how big it should be (Buck obviously) I am a believe it taking meat, I could care less how big an antler is. Would I take a giant if it came out in front of me? Most likely so yes, but if the area were in trouble I may very well pass it, something I have chose to do in the past, not only for the reason stated but because sometimes I have gone out hunting feeling fine and by the end of the day I am just hurting way to much to take a deer, clean it, drag it (When I still could) and so on. At that point I am staying to help others by not disturbing the deer they are hunting and I am pulling my camera out and trying to shoot them that way.

Yes if it is legal you are fine to take it, but is it wise to, that is what is important in my mind. I want my nephews and my friends kids to have the same opportunities I did, so I do what I believe will help them to have critters of whatever species left in the future. We coyote and fox hunt as well as trap,  we do not believe in wiping out every single one of them, we want to hunt them again next year and for future generations to have that chance as well. We do our best to manage them.

I love my science, I make my judgments based on science and how I understand it, if I am shown that I am wrong then I adapt, I think any hunter or outdoors person worth a hill of beans does the same, not only in hunting but in life. We can't be selfish, we owe it to our future generations to leave them something behind.

@GobbleNut We have to report both Spring and Fall, In the Spring we just have to fill out a report and send it in or do it by phone. For fall it reads this way.
                    "Fall Turkey
                Please save a leg from your turkey. You may be asked to submit a turkey leg for DEC to age and sex the turkey. Instructions will be provided."

[Dtrkyman]

I turkey hunt in the spring to interact with gobbling toms.  I have had some cool encounters with busted up hen flocks in the fall with tons of calling.

To me a hen or even a jake is just not the same as a Tom.

So few hens are taken in the fall most places I doubt it is an issue!

[eggshell]

I turkey hunt in the spring to interact with gobbling toms.  I have had some cool encounters with busted up hen flocks in the fall with tons of calling.

To me a hen or even a jake is just not the same as a Tom.

So few hens are taken in the fall most places I doubt it is an issue!

Fall gobblers (long beards ) will make you curse and drive you insane. I have had some pretty good encounters with them, gobbling  strutting and all, but most are a lot of leg work and woodsmanship. However, I will admit there is something magic about the spring and that thunderous gobble. Then seeing that big ole fan coming towards you. Now just imagine how would you hunt that old longbeard if you couldn't hear him gobble from a 1/2 mile away ......hmmmm, yeah that's fall gobbler hunting. It has it's magic too. I like the challenge of both.

[Dtrkyman]

Eggshell, I have killed a few in the fall while bow hunting deer, some gobbling occasionally and plenty of fights, I still prefer the spring and have lot's of things to chase in the fall.

There are enough days in the spring when they don't gobble!!!

[eggshell]

Eggshell, I have killed a few in the fall while bow hunting deer, some gobbling occasionally and plenty of fights, I still prefer the spring and have lot's of things to chase in the fall.

There are enough days in the spring when they don't gobble!!!

Yeah, there's a lot of hunters just like you and not a think wrong with that approach. I do not deer hunt or trap anymore. so a few doves, maybe a pheasant hunt are the only other things I hunt beside turkeys, and those are only 2-3 trips a fall. I am pretty much solely a turkey hunter. So I play that game to it's fullest.

[WV Flopper]

 When I was young I lived in a different area than now, we had turkeys. The men then that lived there turkey hunted, hard, spring and of course fall. Fall hunting was a big affair. Spring hunting was done solo, or with a very close friend or relative. Fall hunting was a little different, it was done with a group of people sometimes, sometimes just the same as the spring. Really depended on the individuals involved, where and when the hunt took place as well was a factor. They still have plenty of turkeys there, I still do hunt there regularly.

Today where I live there are turkeys, plenty of them. But today, there are very few fall turkey hunters in this area. Only occasionally do I fall hunt. I do squirrel hunt a good bit, waiting on the orange army to leave the woods alone now so I can resume. Where I am at now far more fall turkeys are killed by squirrel hunters, bow hunters, and deer hunters than fall turkey hunters. Way more. Don't fool yourself, this is not fall turkey hunting. Yea, if you call this fall hunting it could be seen as easy. But, this is not fall turkey hunting! This is opportunity killing, not fall turkey hunting.

I do not understand why people feel so against the fall hunt... possible they don't see outside of their immediate area? IDK. There are many places in the US that probably can not support a fall harvest, or a significant harvest. But too shame a hunter that takes a legal turkey by legal methods, that shouldn't happen. In know way. They should be proud of their accomplishment, just as any hunter should be while participating in their chosen sport and has success. 

I think we should let the Biologist set the take regulations. Yes, as stated, their are many out side influences to that as well. We will always have those wrong intentions getting in the way of sound management. But, we hunters must not derail the Biologists ourselves.

I went out on a fall hunt 35 years ago with three other turkey hunters. Today, looking back, I am elated that I was allowed/asked to participate in this hunt at all. Two of these guys were the real deal turkey killers, spring or fall. The other was son to one of the hunters. Before the hunt, I remember all of us calling in one of the guys dinning room before we left to go hunt that morning. The day was foggy, with drizzling rain. We all split up to hunt a place that usually held turkeys, trying to find the flock to bust it up. I jumped a single turkey off the roost at around 10AM. Somehow, I swung on that Jennie and knocked her down. I was proud of that, I still am. That was the only turkey seen that day, weather, I am sure had a lot to do with the hunt. Two of those men are dead today, and have been for some time. Those men were happy that we got a turkey that day, and it wouldn't have mattered if it were a hen, jake, or gobbler.

To me its kind of like Sunday hunting. If you don't like it, don't participate. We are all big boys and girls, and should be able to make the decision for ourselves and not have to push our personal agenda on everyone else.

[crow]

^^^

Good post

[eggshell]

I completely agree WV Flopper. We just paid a big price here in Ohio over, what I think was, misguided emmotions and not science. Ohio just cut our spring tags to one bearded bird. They sighted lower reproduction then turned around and said we had a better than average recruitment year. What I think really happened was they caved to public opinion. They have sent out hunter surveys the last few years and they asked the question, should the bag limit be reduced. I have asked a lot of guys how they responded to that question and a lot answered yes. The state influenced this when they put out public service notices that the kill had dropped the last few years. That drop was partly due to less tags being sold and less hunter hrs. Still the harvest change was statistically insignificant. What was true is there has been a lot of public discussion on social media, forums and such about falling populations in many southern states and a study on the effects of spring hunting dates. Another fact is a very high percentage (60%+) of spring hunters never kill a second bird, many don't even buy a second tag. Yet they vote to take a tag away from those that do thinking it will mean more for them to hunt for their one or they say hey I don't care I usually only kill one anyway.

These same discussion points are what fuel all the anti-fall sentiments. Fall hunting has a much deeper tradition then spring hunting. Yet our flocks done very well and expanded right through fall seasons. I said it before and say it again, "don't shame someone over an emmotionally driven opinion".  If you have good science based data for your area then that is another thing, but even though I know wildlife agencies often cave to public opinion, they generally do an outstanding job protecting and providing for the resource. If they thought stopping fall hunting or hen shooting would recover the flock they'd do it in a heart beat, but the science doesn't indicate that in most areas.

I also agree, on  most fall birds are opportunity kills, not hunted. I really don't have a problem with that. If a guy gets a bonus while sitting in a stand, good for him/her.

[Kylongspur88]

Good thread. I love fall hunting as much as spring hunting and have killed hens in the past which is legal here. I think the biologists do the best they can to set seasons and limits but overall it's up to hunters to be good conservationists and make the determination for themselves if the population they are hunting can or should sustain a hen harvest or Amy harvest for that matter. For instance one property I bow hunt has taken a real hit in the past few years and there's no way I'd consider killing a hen off there. On the other hand a property I hunt an hour away is loaded with birds. I counted 57 in several separate flocks in one day about a week ago. I wouldn't loose sleep about taking a legal hen there. We're all the same team here so if it's legal and you think your population can sustain it I say congrats.