Oklahoma 2022

[jgard]

They have done so well with quail. Seriously I would stop hunting turkeys for a few seasons if that would help. However it's feels they are recognizing there is a problem but dont know the cause. So they feel the need to do something and this is what we get

[Neill_Prater]

I honestly don't know all the reasons for the decline of turkeys in all areas. I'm not sure anyone does. I suspect the weather is a huge factor in some areas, maybe predation in others.

Do I think reducing the limit of gobblers during the Spring season will solve the problem? No. And, I am not sure anyone else does either, but it may help to have a little more carryover.

I think many areas of the country are experiencing such a decrease in overall population, and perhaps most importantly, in the number of hens, that the solution may be to go back to the same methods that allowed the wild turkey population to expand decades ago, namely trap and transfer, and closed seasons on a local basis for an indeterminate period.





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[PNWturkey]

I live in ks and would be fine with restrictions for nonresidents in any state that is having a decline in turkey populations.

Iowa has done this for years with fall turkey hunting - limited to residents only.

[GobbleNut]

I honestly don't know all the reasons for the decline of turkeys in all areas. I'm not sure anyone does. I suspect the weather is a huge factor in some areas, maybe predation in others.

Do I think reducing the limit of gobblers during the Spring season will solve the problem? No. And, I am not sure anyone else does either, but it may help to have a little more carryover.

I think many areas of the country are experiencing such a decrease in overall population, and perhaps most importantly, in the number of hens, that the solution may be to go back to the same methods that allowed the wild turkey population to expand decades ago, namely trap and transfer, and closed seasons on a local basis for an indeterminate period.

I've made similar statements every time this topic comes up.  The obvious solution is to determine the actual/factual causes of turkey population declines in specific areas and begin to implement management strategies to address them.  That should include,...at this very moment,...a nationwide evaluation of turkey populations that could be tapped for T&T programs and getting all the negotiations and "paperwork" in place to initiate the relocation of turkeys, by subspecies, from areas with surplus numbers to those areas that need them.

Of course, this also requires funding mechanisms for such programs,...and an "entity" that will put pressure on management agencies to direct that funding towards these supplementation programs (hint, hint,...you NWTF members!)

Turkey management philosophy at this moment in time appears to be one of "let's conserve the birds we have left by managing human harvest and hope that conditions improve and we start having reproductive success".  That is all well and good,...except for that it is "reactive " wildlife management instead of "proactive" management.  At some point there has to be the recognition by managers that it is very likely they will have to reinforce turkey numbers artificially by T&T programs.  They should be preparing for that reality right now.

Always keep in mind in these discussions that the more adult turkeys you have "on the landscape" when you finally have a good nesting season or two, the quicker your turkey population can recover.  The management decisions that are being made by a lot of our wildlife agencies at this time are simply based on that premise.  Hence, the reductions in human harvest. 

[Mkeller]

I think it's hard to manage something if you dont really have a good idea how many there are, how many are being harvested, and what is a sustainable population to number of permits issued.

[Hook hanger]

Best thing Oklahoma could do!!!!! Moving the season back and lowering harvest rates.

[eggshell]

I will readily admit I do not have an answer to any states decline, but I do have some suspicions. Here is my list of suspect causes and suggested fixes:

Causes: It's a natural response to habitat carrying capacity
Solution: Habitat improvement/ protection, but this has a ceiling and we may be to a place we just have to accept what we have

Cause: Depredation
Solution: Kill as many of the SOBs as possible....the most fun option

Cause: Genetically stale populations
Solution: Trap and transfer

Cause: Disease 
Solution:Test and diagnose and restrict movement and harvest. This is the worse case scenario and would be a tough pill to swallow. Kind of like covid, it'll run it's course and we won't be able to stop it.

Cause: Spring nest interference, this includes human interaction from hunters and other recreation.
Solution: Reduce access and restrict human entrance to habitat. Actually reduced bag limits will do this some. I think there is far more hens bumped off nest by hunters than we realize and many of those are abandoned.

Cause: Fall season and harvest of hens and poults
Solution: Close fall seasons. I personally don't think this is a problem. For decades states sustained populations with fall hunting. I have a hard time believing it is a root cause, but as much as I love fall hunting I do believe it is a viable solution in stressed populations.

[GobbleNut]

Good list, eggshell.      I will add a couple more that has been brought up a time or two in the past, and which also needs some investigation, I believe:

Cause:  Egg infertility, fragility, and reduced survival rates caused by widespread use of pesticides, herbicides, and other toxins. 
Solution:  More extensive research of these substances to determine impacts on egg viability and poult survival.

Cause:  Mortality rates relating to farming practices and forest management practices
Solution:  Investigate impacts of farming methods such as mowing, tilling, etc. during nesting season.  Investigate impacts of prescribed burning during nesting season.  Adjust both as needed by defining best management practices relating to both.

[PalmettoRon]

Eggshell that was an excellent post. I would add that weather, whether extended drought or a very wet late Spring, has had an impact in certain areas.  I enjoy taking out novices or inexperienced hunters even though I may well have tagged out. This keeps the sport growing but the end result is more turkeys are killed. I have no idea if that is a significant factor, but I suspect there are many of us who assist friends and family who otherwise would not kill a turkey.

Game cameras, decoys, fanning, better sights, blinds, better camo, better ammo and how to videos have all played a part in more kills.

It's a very complicated issue, but I can vouch that I have been seeing and hearing far fewer birds than in years past.

[GobbleNut]

I would add that weather, whether extended drought or a very wet late Spring, has had an impact in certain areas. .

Yeah, we missed that one in the list!  The impacts of our changing climate cannot be overstated.  That's not just in the obvious stuff like increased and widespread spring flooding during nesting season, but also in terms of the changes in the ability of disease vectors and other adverse biological agents to survive and spread in wildlife populations. 

Unfortunately, the "climate horse" had dun left the barn and it doesn't look like he has any intention of getting back in....

[AndyN]

And just like that KS and NE turkey sales skyrocketed for spring 2022. Seems to be this disease spreading from the south and east. Kill off all of the turkeys and move on to the next state. By 2030 we ought to have every turkey from OK to SD killed. On a serious note I might actually hunt OK next year as I'm sure it will cut down on overall pressure.

[jgard]

Good stuff eggshell

[zeke632]

The USFS has been select cutting large chunks of the Ouachita Mts of SE Oklahoma.  Then basically abandoning it.  It just a few years it's a huge thicket that you can't get through.  They do some burns but it's to little and to late.  They are sort of checker boarded through out the Ouachitas.
I believe here it can be added to the list of problems turkeys are facing.
SE Oklahoma turkey season has been opening later than the rest of the state for about 10 years now, it has not helped.  Not saying I'm against it, just saying it hasn't helped.   
I'm not sure that the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife is willing or capable of being part of a solution. They spend lots of time, money and energy on the well being of black bears, not so much on turkeys.

[WV Flopper]

 I feel for the Residents of Oklahoma, I do! But WE all should remember, question the people making the rules, question their intentions. WE all should remember, without game these people are not needed. Without hunters, they are not needed.  All people make mistakes, but these people are looking out for two things. They are looking out for the turkey, and they are looking out for the budget of the Oklahoma DNR.

Figure out yourself how many licenses are bought by NoN Res for turkey hunting and the price charged for that license. Compare to the Res license costs. You can easy see the issue with cutting out Non Res licenses, or even limiting them. Doing so, limits the budget of the DNR, limits research, limits habit development, limits everything!

I understand your feeling of not wanting additional hunting pressure in your home state, I do. But to suggest to limit or forgo Non Res hunters is not correct. If anyone really feels this way, they too should only be a resident hunter, not crossing state lines. Stay home.

By limiting Non Res hunters you are limiting your own comeback. Charge the NonRes even more, but don't make it to where they can't enjoy. One day you may wish you had their money when looking across nothing. Oklahoma needs money, money for research, money for habitat, money for issues causing deminishing populations.

I hope your population flourishes ASAP, I do.

[GobbleNut]

WE all should remember, question the people making the rules, question their intentions. WE all should remember, without game these people are not needed. Without hunters, they are not needed.  All people make mistakes, but these people are looking out for two things. They are looking out for the turkey, and they are looking out for the budget of the Oklahoma DNR.

Figure out yourself how many licenses are bought by NoN Res for turkey hunting and the price charged for that license. Compare to the Res license costs. You can easy see the issue with cutting out Non Res licenses, or even limiting them. Doing so, limits the budget of the DNR, limits research, limits habit development, limits everything!

I understand your feeling of not wanting additional hunting pressure in your home state, I do. But to suggest to limit or forgo Non Res hunters is not correct. If anyone really feels this way, they too should only be a resident hunter, not crossing state lines. Stay home.

By limiting Non Res hunters you are limiting your own comeback. Charge the NonRes even more, but don't make it to where they can't enjoy. One day you may wish you had their money when looking across nothing. Oklahoma needs money, money for research, money for habitat, money for issues causing deminishing populations.

Your statement about the need to balance the protection of the resource/wildlife, while at the same time providing for adequate funding for that, brings up a really good point.  That point is that funding for wildlife management should not be based on hunting license sales.  That is fundamentally a poor premise to start out with. 

Wildlife management in a number of states is funded, at least in part, through a (very small) percentage of the state's tax base being dedicated to wildlife management.  That eliminates the need to sell hunting licenses as the single, or primary, source to support wildlife management,...too often at the expense of the resource.  Wildlife managers should not be faced with making that kind of a choice.

One other point to be made. The days of unlimited hunting opportunity,...either for residents or nonresidents,...are quickly fading.  It has already happened in many western states with their big game hunting.  The same thing is likely on the horizon for turkey hunting.  We hunters have to at some point, look at ourselves in the mirror and ask ourselves if we want to limit ourselves for the well-being of the resource,...or do we just want to ignore that and go hunting regardless of how it impacts our wildlife populations? 

Admittedly, that is a tough choice to be made,...and it is a hard pill to swallow for those of us that have seen the "good old days".  However, it is the reality of where we are at this moment in time in some places.