The Solution

[dzsmith]

While I agree that human factors are a major culprit in wild turkey population declines, hunting is not one of the significant human factors in most cases.  Unfortunately, there are a bunch of factors associated with our burgeoning human population that most definitely are impacting turkeys. 

Reducing bag limits and season lengths is only a temporary fix.  Without altering those other, more significant factors, populations will surely continue to decline.  That decline will be lessened over the short term by reducing the number of gobblers killed each spring, but without solutions to the real causes, turkey numbers will continue their downward trends in those places where humans have more drastically altered those factors that influence turkey population health and recruitment. 

Having said that, there are places where turkeys are doing well, and bag limits and season lengths (if timed properly) are not presently an issue.  Turkey hunting pressure will eventually gravitate towards those areas.  It is imperative that the resource be adequately protected in all cases with wise management decisions related to hunting. 

The era of treating turkeys like they are an unlimited resource with too-liberal bag limits and season structures will inevitably have to change under the conditions that exist now.

Couldn't have put it in better words myself.

This current trend of substantially reducing opportunity through season and bag limit changes is simply a band-aid on something that requires major surgery.

it's easy to give into the shorten the bag limit idea when someone like myself quite often limits out in my home state . But the reality is most don't, the vast majority don't. It just wouldn't save that many birds in the end . And the birds I would have killed , will just be killed by someone else opportunity that's I simply took away from them by killing it first. So it wouldn't make that much of diff. However .... given the current state of affairs with the popularity of the sport, I would not oppose reducing the bag limit as the limit is the same as it was when the population was in a lot better shape than it is today. The only people it would hurt the feelings of is people like me .... and that's fine , because it wouldn't hurt my feelings . But would it solve the problem .... no it would not. I hunted on some federal land in another state this year , that only allowed 1 turkey to be harvested there on your license . So regardless of what the state limit was , you could only kill one on that property , which was very large .... like real big. I liked that . I met the biologist there and he was pleasure to talk to , they seemed to really have it going on there .

[budtripp]

Missouri already has a short (3 week) season that tends to start later, and most hunters might take one bird if they are lucky, and alot of them don't even take 1. I don't think it would do much for us. Other factors at play in our declines.

[quavers59]

   New Jersey needs Major Changes! Turkeys are very Few in Northren New Jersey.
  Bag Limit needs to be Reduced as well. There should be a 2 Gobbler Limit in New Jersey. 3 Max...
   As it stands now it you take a Tom in your Zone- you can go right back and Buy another Turkey Permit  if any remain for that Zone over the Counter.
   Take a 2and Tom and look to repeat the Process for a 3ed day and perhaps a 3rd Gobbler.
   If Permits are available  over the counter in that particular  Zone- you can just keep buying more Turkey Permits.
   Up to 29 Turkey Permits can be bought in certain Zones!
   That has to change Pronto!!  2 Gobblers Statewide and perhaps 3 Gobblers Max .
   We must protect the Resourse-- The Wild Turkey.

[HookedonHooks]

   New Jersey needs Major Changes! Turkeys are very Few in Northren New Jersey.
  Bag Limit needs to be Reduced as well. There should be a 2 Gobbler Limit in New Jersey. 3 Max...
   As it stands now it you take a Tom in your Zone- you can go right back and Buy another Turkey Permit  if any remain for that Zone over the Counter.
   Take a 2and Tom and look to repeat the Process for a 3ed day and perhaps a 3rd Gobbler.
   If Permits are available  over the counter in that particular  Zone- you can just keep buying more Turkey Permits.
   Up to 29 Turkey Permits can be bought in certain Zones!
   That has to change Pronto!!  2 Gobblers Statewide and perhaps 3 Gobblers Max .
   We must protect the Resourse-- The Wild Turkey.

Wisconsin is run the same way. Ran into a fellar up there that was working on his 20th turkey tag and I was traveling out of state just looking for one. Late May, Wisconsin the last two seasons the public has appeared to have been beat to hell. That don't mean it can't be done, just doesn't make sense a local can kill 20 in a year to me, if they like killing turkeys that bad they should travel. Only thing is tags aren't cheaper anywhere for residents or nonresidents than in Wisconsin.

[eggshell]

It is going to take a major die off ...................of turkey"hunters".  "We have met the enemy, and it is us,"

Hmmm, maybe time for Thanos

[Meleagris gallopavo]

I hadn't heard of the buying multiple permits before.  That's very different.  Hard to imagine a turkey population doing well with individual hunters killing upwards of 20 gobblers each. 

For me to say we have a lot of predators in my area really doesn't mean much since I don't know how many predators is "a lot" and I have no idea what the numbers are.  I grew up where I turkey hunt so I can say with some confidence what we had and currently have so far as what we see and can hunt.  Bears began making a comeback in the 80s when I was a teenager.  I never saw a coyote in our area until I was about 20 and didn't see a wild turkey until I was almost 30.  Our turkey population exploded at the same time our coyote and bear populations exploded.  Not sure how much bears account for predation but I imagine a hungry bear that happens across a nest full of eggs will eat the eggs.  We've always had bobcats and I already told the story about a fellow hunter that hunts the same property that I do having a bobcat attack his decoy this year. 

One thing I think helps us is that for every piece of property hunted there are 2 or 3 adjacent properties not hunted that hold turkeys.  These properties are owned by animal lovers, some land owners think the game belongs to them and if you're hunting you're taking they're property (odd), some properties are owned by large investment groups that don't allow hunting to individuals due to risk of litigation if an accident occurs on the property.  Hunting clubs have insurance that protects the property owner but individuals don't carry that.  Some property is owned by absentee landowners that are hard to contact to get permission to hunt.  I ride by a group of turkeys everyday, every year on the way to and from work that are on property that no one hunts.  I imagine some of that population bleeds off onto adjacent properties.


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[Meleagris gallopavo]

I'd like to add that trying to pin turkey population decline on any "one thing" that encompasses all of turkey hunting in the U.S. is faulty.  I read several posts that have valid reasons or answers to declining turkey populations that may or may not be true for every situation.


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[Happy]

I'd like to add that trying to pin turkey population decline on any "one thing" that encompasses all of turkey hunting in the U.S. is faulty.  I read several posts that have valid reasons or answers to declining turkey populations that may or may not be true for every situation.


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I think you are correct on that there sir. I believe there are multiple factors but I do believe I have noticed the decline coinciding with the popularity of turkey hunting and the new methods of killing them. Predators have always existed and nature typically has regulated itself with high cycles and low cycles depending on the carrying capacity for that species. Habitat is another factor and I think we can all agree we haven't done a whole lot to help wildlife in that respect. Hopefully steps are made to correct that but in the meantime the most easily manipulated factor for some relief is on the hunting side of things. I know I try and do things a little differently nowadays and I also try to give something back. I would encourage everyone to do the same.

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[owlhoot]

Missouri already has a short (3 week) season that tends to start later, and most hunters might take one bird if they are lucky, and alot of them don't even take 1. I don't think it would do much for us. Other factors at play in our declines.

Exactly.

[Crghss]

It is obvious the best two things we can do for wildlife is habitat management and predator control/trapping. More restrictions is not the answer.

This is the answer.

[Old Timer]

It is going to take a major die off ...................of turkey"hunters".  "We have met the enemy, and it is us,"

I have to disagree bird population is low in my neck of the woods and a lot of hunter do not hunt them here anymore because you have to work and put your time in to tag. Then again I got to thinking are they really hunters if they cashed in their chips and quit because times are tough? Just a thought.

[saltysenior]

   New Jersey needs Major Changes! Turkeys are very Few in Northren New Jersey.
  Bag Limit needs to be Reduced as well. There should be a 2 Gobbler Limit in New Jersey. 3 Max...
   As it stands now it you take a Tom in your Zone- you can go right back and Buy another Turkey Permit  if any remain for that Zone over the Counter.
   Take a 2and Tom and look to repeat the Process for a 3ed day and perhaps a 3rd Gobbler.
   If Permits are available  over the counter in that particular  Zone- you can just keep buying more Turkey Permits.
   Up to 29 Turkey Permits can be bought in certain Zones!
   That has to change Pronto!!  2 Gobblers Statewide and perhaps 3 Gobblers Max .
   We must protect the Resourse-- The Wild Turkey.

    maybe in some sections of the state ....other places , mainly suburban areas , are over run with turkeys..However even in some of these areas ,where there is no hunting , populations dwindle...I've watched turkey populations rise and fall thru the years in many eastern states...the only answer that could hold water in ALL areas and conditions is disease or a sickness.

[owlhoot]

   New Jersey needs Major Changes! Turkeys are very Few in Northren New Jersey.
  Bag Limit needs to be Reduced as well. There should be a 2 Gobbler Limit in New Jersey. 3 Max...
   As it stands now it you take a Tom in your Zone- you can go right back and Buy another Turkey Permit  if any remain for that Zone over the Counter.
   Take a 2and Tom and look to repeat the Process for a 3ed day and perhaps a 3rd Gobbler.
   If Permits are available  over the counter in that particular  Zone- you can just keep buying more Turkey Permits.
   Up to 29 Turkey Permits can be bought in certain Zones!
   That has to change Pronto!!  2 Gobblers Statewide and perhaps 3 Gobblers Max .
   We must protect the Resourse-- The Wild Turkey.

    maybe in some sections of the state ....other places , mainly suburban areas , are over run with turkeys..However even in some of these areas ,where there is no hunting , populations dwindle...I've watched turkey populations rise and fall thru the years in many eastern states...the only answer that could hold water in ALL areas and conditions is disease or a sickness.

Good point.
question, any nest raider -predators involved here ?

[dzsmith]

It is going to take a major die off ...................of turkey"hunters".  "We have met the enemy, and it is us,"

Hmmm, maybe time for Thanos

that's pretty much always been my argument, and it's a very unpopular one .

[Turkeyman]

It is going to take a major die off ...................of turkey"hunters".  "We have met the enemy, and it is us,"

Hmmm, maybe time for Thanos

that's pretty much always been my argument, and it's a very unpopular one .

I concur. As far as I'm concerned we already have too many turkey hunters out there...particularly with the addition of the Covid hunters last and this year. Am I being selfish...perhaps. All I know is if I'm in a large area alone listening for that first gobble I'm happy...rather than position on him and hear four or five other guys already on him. Another thing which annoys me is all those guys on an ego trip to call in birds for family, friends, pseudo-friends and co-workers. I've taken family members myself...but not year after year. If you have to do that all they are is a turkey shooter and don't really want to be a turkey hunter. I read whereas guys are bragging on calling up quite a few turkeys for those pseudo-friends and co-workers. Deflate your ego. It's liable to benefit the resource. Perhaps JMO.