Jakes not breeding ?

[Kansan]

My chickens, guinea fowl, and heritage breed turkeys reproduce just fine in their first year. I would think that wild turkeys do as well.

[Meleagris gallopavo]

Wild turkeys reach sexual maturity in a year.  I've read that a very low percentage of Jakes may actually breed by the end of the breeding season.  I used to raise all the yard birds many years ago in the early 1990s and obtained some eastern wild turkey chicks/poults at a very young age that were hatched in the spring.  They ended up being all hens.  In the spring of the following year they certainly acted like they wanted to breed as they would lay down in front of the domestic jakes they were raised with but the jakes wouldn't breed them.  We had wild turkeys in the woods around the house and I heard a gobbler a few times near the house.  All 3 hens left soon after.  A month or two later a hen would hang around the house with several poults and she wouldn't run when approached so we figured it was one I raised.  I take this as an anecdotal, isolated case in unusual circumstances.  So I'd say the hens "can" breed and have poults the first year, but I'd say this is the exception rather than the rule.  According to the articles I've read the hens (most I believe) can and do breed once early and throughout breeding season and can lay a full clutch of fertile eggs from that first breeding.  The sperm can stay viable to fertilize eggs for 8 weeks.  They can be bred by other mature toms after they're first bred but it's probably unnecessary.  Spring gobbler seasons start in each state after the breeding season has begun.  This information I obtained from several Land Grant university Extension service websites. 


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[owlhoot]

The short answer is jakes contribute very little to reproduction. It's obvious that jakes are not developed and are not fully capable of producing the level of sperm needed to fertilize clutches, but i will agree they do try to breed with hens. Research has shown that very small percentage of jakes are just capable of sufficient breeding during their first breeding season. You have to realize as the spring season is going on gobblers testosterone levels continues to grow and it makes sense that a jakes level of testosterone will decrease in that first years as the breeding season whines down. Same with gobblers, coming back together into a flock, it's all a breeding cycle.. IMO....

Which research ? If you remember  Greg.

[owlhoot]

Wild turkeys reach sexual maturity in a year.  I've read that a very low percentage of Jakes may actually breed by the end of the breeding season.  I used to raise all the yard birds many years ago in the early 1990s and obtained some eastern wild turkey chicks/poults at a very young age that were hatched in the spring.  They ended up being all hens.  In the spring of the following year they certainly acted like they wanted to breed as they would lay down in front of the domestic jakes they were raised with but the jakes wouldn't breed them.  We had wild turkeys in the woods around the house and I heard a gobbler a few times near the house.  All 3 hens left soon after.  A month or two later a hen would hang around the house with several poults and she wouldn't run when approached so we figured it was one I raised.  I take this as an anecdotal, isolated case in unusual circumstances.  So I'd say the hens "can" breed and have poults the first year, but I'd say this is the exception rather than the rule.  According to the articles I've read the hens (most I believe) can and do breed once early and throughout breeding season and can lay a full clutch of fertile eggs from that first breeding.  The sperm can stay viable to fertilize eggs for 8 weeks.  They can be bred by other mature toms after they're first bred but it's probably unnecessary.  Spring gobbler seasons start in each state after the breeding season has begun.  This information I obtained from several Land Grant university Extension service websites. 


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Will have to check out the land grant university research. Thanks.

[guesswho]

Just a question because I have no idea.   But if a Jake is not capable of breeding, then what about a Jenny?   Is she able to breed successfully?

The answer is yes ! Jenny and I have two children...

Does Forrest know about this?

[Meleagris gallopavo]

An oldie but goody.

Lewis, John B., and Robert P. Breitenbach. "Breeding Potential of Subadult Wild Turkey Gobblers." The Journal of Wildlife Management, vol. 30, no. 3, 1966, pp.

The take home message from the Missouri study indicated verbatim from the abstract "The sample taken from the testes of subadult gobblers shot during the 1964 and 1965 turkey seasons showed 28 percent (14 of 50) which possessed mature sperm. These data imply that these subadults could be capable of breeding." 

So just over 25% of jakes "could" breed, which doesn't necessarily mean they do.  They just have to find the right hen I suppose.


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[Meleagris gallopavo]

If you really want to dry your eyeballs out reading the actual articles that the Land Grant Extension Service boils down for the lay reader, go to Google and type in Google Scholar.  Google Scholar is the nerdy scientific version of Google that searches for research papers on any and all things.  Once in Google Scholar type in
"eastern wild turkey breeding season".  You will be able to access the abstracts (cliff notes version of the actual article) for your reading pleasure.  Most of the actual articles are only available through paid subscriptions.  But trust me, the abstracts are good enough.


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[owlhoot]

An oldie but goody.

Lewis, John B., and Robert P. Breitenbach. "Breeding Potential of Subadult Wild Turkey Gobblers." The Journal of Wildlife Management, vol. 30, no. 3, 1966, pp.

The take home message from the Missouri study indicated verbatim from the abstract "The sample taken from the testes of subadult gobblers shot during the 1964 and 1965 turkey seasons showed 28 percent (14 of 50) which possessed mature sperm. These data imply that these subadults could be capable of breeding." 

So just over 25% of jakes "could" breed, which doesn't necessarily mean they do.  They just have to find the right hen I suppose.


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thanks, good info.

[Howie g]

Just a question because I have no idea.   But if a Jake is not capable of breeding, then what about a Jenny?   Is she able to breed successfully?

The answer is yes ! Jenny and I have two children...

Does Forrest know about this?
     No , he doesn't know . Please don't tell him ,,, lord knows I can't out run him 

[dah]

 Thanks gallopavo ,
There are probably multiple factors involved in viable sperm , early or late hatch , health , T levels . etc. Maybe we are seeing the more mature Jakes with a hen and breeding and the less mature running in gangs or pairs . Not every year , but I do see a breeding jake , usually with a single hen or in a breeding group , but he is usually positioned on the edge of a breeding group . Rare , but I have seen breeding group just jakes , which concerned me as I  thought maybe a case of over harvest in that area .

[Turkeyman]

Just a question because I have no idea.   But if a Jake is not capable of breeding, then what about a Jenny?   Is she able to breed successfully?

In Lovett Williams' book he says the largest nest he ever found was that of a jenny...17 eggs.

[dzsmith]

I have two chicks in a box in my garage that were fathered by a Jake.  That's for certain.

its not 100% of jakes. Its just most of them. Im sure a super early hatch super jake, is probably far enough along as some point late enough in a season to be fertile. But what percent of jakes are at that point. Probably not most of them, you also have to factor in some years you hardly see jakes if theres enough gobbling adult toms around to keep them quiet. Add the pecking order into that, and the odds of a jake being the breeder if he was capable are slim. Except this year of course, where there was lots of jakes and few adults. I imagine if there was a year where a few older jakes did some breeding it was definetly this year

[dublelung]

I have two chicks in a box in my garage that were fathered by a Jake.  That's for certain.

I've told them the same thing on here before but they don't want to hear it. My son's turkeys were all in a pen and there's no way anything other than the jake bred his hens. They both hatched and raised poults.

[Meleagris gallopavo]

I have two chicks in a box in my garage that were fathered by a Jake.  That's for certain.

I've told them the same thing on here before but they don't want to hear it. My son's turkeys were all in a pen and there's no way anything other than the jake bred his hens. They both hatched and raised poults.

I believe it, but it's not a natural occurrence.  The hens couldn't be bred by a more mature Tom in a pen-raised situation because only the Jake was available.  So once the hens and the Jake reached sexual maturity in the pen, they bred successfully and the hen laid eggs and had poults.  In the wild the mature Toms are available to breed earlier as many jakes don't reach sexual maturity until later in the season.  The mature Toms breed the mature hens and, since they are more dominant than jakes, probably breed young hens as they mature.  So the mature Toms breed the vast majority of the hens, leaving a few to be potentially bred by jakes that reach maturity before the breeding season ends.  That's why the numbers show that jakes don't contribute to bred hens as much.  It's not that a Jake can't successfully breed a hen and produce poults, it's just that the numbers are against them doing that to a high level.  I would ad here that gobbling jakes occur more towards the end of the season because that's when they begin to reach sexual maturity.  So they're really gobblers with jake beards and spurs.


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[Howie g]

Two scenarios = early hatch jakes will breed when the hens are willing .
2 = when there are no mature gobblers in a given area .