Covid and wild turkeys

[El Pavo Grande]

I really believe the area I predominately hunted in Arkansas this spring had a lower harvest, mainly because of the increased hunting pressure and activity .  There seemed to be more inexperienced hunters with work and schools shut down.  Non stop hooting, calling, driving down old log roads, etc. 

[Marc]

Regardless of the causes of wild turkey population declines, wherever they are occurring, the question really comes down to what can, and are, we going to do about it? 

Eggshell brings up a fundamental theory in wildlife management,...that new populations of species introduced into suitable habitat, all other factors being favorable, will increase towards carrying capacity and then decline to a more sustainable level.  The question is, can that be replicated?

I believe it is safe to say that, in some areas, turkey numbers may have fallen below sustainable levels.  That is due to something,...and that "something" needs to be addressed.  Unfortunately, there are factors causing these declines that cannot be realistically addressed.  For instance, anybody that thinks we are going to effectively manage predator populations on a significant scale under the constraints that exist in today's society is fooling themselves.   

Therefore, we have to look at addressing the factors that we can realistically address.  To me, the most obvious and fast solution to solving this problem is to re-adopt the same strategy that was used to establish wild turkey populations across this country to start with.  That is, re-stock areas that need supplementation (east Texas is doing this right now with their Eastern WT population).

Folks, there are plenty of places where wild turkeys are a nuisance, are not being hunted, and need to be removed.  The solution is simple. Re-start a nationwide program of taking turkeys where they are abundant and putting them in places where they are not. 

Yes, I know that this is an "artificial" solution,...but it may very likely be the only solution if we turkey hunters want more turkeys.  That is, short of drastically reducing human-caused mortality in the form of reducing hunting opportunity.  I think it is safe to say that most of us here do not want to see that happen, if possible.

YES...  And habitat management...  Will not do much good to dump off a bunch of turkeys in unsustainable habitat situations.

Over the past 10 years, I have seen populations of birds significantly decrease, and then increase...  Springs with decent rain and lots of nesting habitat dramatically increase bird populations...

We are starting to see turkeys enter into agricultural areas in some parts of California, but in the central valley I am still not seeing that happen.  For areas with birds in rural and agricultural areas, CRP type programs would go a long ways towards increasing turkey as well as other desired upland habitat...

Farming has changed a lot, and most farmers are able to utilize every square inch of land...  And when water becomes scarce, clear-cutting ditches becomes more common (eliminating the little habitat there is available to upland species for nesting, including turkeys).

Unfortunately with the stimulus monies being paid out, and ZERO money to spend...  It will be up to hunters, and hunting organizations.

I would think that there would be some benefit in multiple groups (such as Pheasants Forever, Quail Unlimited, and NWTF collaborating to improve habitat.

Hunters in the past have always been the best conservationists, and have always produced the most funding for conservation of wildlife...  Seems maybe that is dropping off in recent years, and if hunting is to continue, it will be up to hunters to move things along...  And pony up.

[GobbleNut]

Regardless of the causes of wild turkey population declines, wherever they are occurring, the question really comes down to what can, and are, we going to do about it? 

Eggshell brings up a fundamental theory in wildlife management,...that new populations of species introduced into suitable habitat, all other factors being favorable, will increase towards carrying capacity and then decline to a more sustainable level.  The question is, can that be replicated?

I believe it is safe to say that, in some areas, turkey numbers may have fallen below sustainable levels.  That is due to something,...and that "something" needs to be addressed.  Unfortunately, there are factors causing these declines that cannot be realistically addressed.  For instance, anybody that thinks we are going to effectively manage predator populations on a significant scale under the constraints that exist in today's society is fooling themselves.   

Therefore, we have to look at addressing the factors that we can realistically address.  To me, the most obvious and fast solution to solving this problem is to re-adopt the same strategy that was used to establish wild turkey populations across this country to start with.  That is, re-stock areas that need supplementation (east Texas is doing this right now with their Eastern WT population).

Folks, there are plenty of places where wild turkeys are a nuisance, are not being hunted, and need to be removed.  The solution is simple. Re-start a nationwide program of taking turkeys where they are abundant and putting them in places where they are not. 

Yes, I know that this is an "artificial" solution,...but it may very likely be the only solution if we turkey hunters want more turkeys.  That is, short of drastically reducing human-caused mortality in the form of reducing hunting opportunity.  I think it is safe to say that most of us here do not want to see that happen, if possible.

YES...  And habitat management...  Will not do much good to dump off a bunch of turkeys in unsustainable habitat situations.

Agreed.  Putting turkeys in habitat that they cannot survive in obviously is not what we want.  However, many of the places that are suffering significant declines are places where the habitat is there, but there are recent changes that have resulted in those populations declines outside of habitat issues.  Simply put, it is an issue of nesting success and poult survival.  The transplant programs from the last half of the twentieth century clearly demonstrated that turkeys can survive in a wide spectrum of habitat types.

What are those issues impacting turkey populations?  Many of us believe they are related to predation (especially nest predators), climate change, and changing ag practices (introduction of diseases and toxins).  Conversely, I doubt many of us believe it is due primarily to habitat loss (although monocultural timber practices are certainly suspect in some areas). 

The concept of adding more adult birds to a population through transplants/translocation is based on the simple principle that the more adult, breeding-capable turkeys you have in a population, the quicker that population can recover from down-cycles when they finally have conditions favorable to nesting success.

In addition, there is also the concept of "hybrid vigor" that comes into play.  Simply adding new genetics into a population can increase survivability of the birds in that population, even without other significant changes in other factors affecting those populations. 

All in all, it seems to me that the concept of trapping and transplanting turkeys,...the very basis for the enormous increases in turkey numbers in this country in the past few decades,....for whatever reason has fallen by the wayside.  I personally believe it is time to revitalize that program specifically in those areas that turkey numbers have plummeted.     

[Spurs Up]

To hear some on here tell it, there are statewide declines and shortages of turkeys. Where would the transplanted turkeys come from in those states?  I wonder how many you would need?  Sounds like it could be expensive if done on any kind of scale. What are the costs and where would the money come from?

[Marc]

To hear some on here tell it, there are statewide declines and shortages of turkeys. Where would the transplanted turkeys come from in those states?  I wonder how many you would need?  Sounds like it could be expensive if done on any kind of scale. What are the costs and where would the money come from?

I agree that the government (especially currently) does not have the funding, nor is this situation a priority (nor should it be currently).

Much of it could come from turkey hunters and private conservation organizations (such as NTWF)...  As could volunteers.  As well as volunteers from organizations such as the Boy Scouts, and other high school community service groups (certainly could be an educational experience for such groups).

While things have changed, it was not in the too distant past that groups such as Ducks Unlimited turned around waterfowl populations.

As far as available populations?  Many rural housing areas have high populations, some of which have become nuisance populations.  State and national parks with high density populations could certainly be spread out to other areas (likely benefiting both the low density population groups, as well as reducing over-populated ares).

[eggshell]

To hear some on here tell it, there are statewide declines and shortages of turkeys. Where would the transplanted turkeys come from in those states?  I wonder how many you would need?  Sounds like it could be expensive if done on any kind of scale. What are the costs and where would the money come from?

Well, to start with this would be a great time and place for the NWTF to get their act back on course and mission. As far as cost, it all comes down to priority. Trapping and transplanting of turkeys is mostly a matter of man power. Most states already have the equipment. Bait is not a great cost nor is fuel. Easily material cost could be covered by NWTF or local Sportsmen. Most state agency have a base of staff, they work year round and it wouldn't take any new hiring. It's a matter of committing the time to do it. Of course that would mean scaling back or not doing some other projects. If they use their personnel wisely they can reassign staff during down times and not miss much at all. I worked my whole career in a fish hatchery and winter was a slow time for us, so we helped game management and law enforcement whenever they needed help in the winter. My crew actually kept turkey trap sites baited for the game guys. It cost the Wildlife division nothing in additional cost. Sure it took my guys out of the shop some from doing tank maintenance, but we managed. Someone just has to decide it's a priority. As for available birds, yes there are areas with surplus. I done a lot of trading with other states. We traded fish for all kinds of things. We had an abundance of Walleye and many states wanted them, so we traded for something we wanted. We traded catfish for Steelhead eggs. If you need turkeys find someone who will trade for them.  Even within these states your right there are closed ares that have turkeys in surplus. Believe me it's doable, someone in administration just needs to decide they want to.

Gobblenut, you do know your not suppose to come on the web and actually post useful opinions or make sense, don't ya..... what nerve. The internet is for wacko theories, personal attacks, radicalization and porn geesh! (SARCASM FONT

[silvestris]

Good luck with anything from the NWTF.  Anything.

[GobbleNut]

Well, to start with this would be a great time and place for the NWTF to get their act back on course and mission.

Good luck with anything from the NWTF.  Anything.

We have wandered off course a bit with this thread,...but since we have come around to bringing up the NWTF again regarding where that organization stands with a bunch of us...here's some more thoughts:

The NWTF gets a lot of bashing from some of us folks that were probably at one time pretty strong supporters of the organization.  I know I am one of them,...and for good reasons.

Having said that, we are part of the problem with where the NWTF has gone.  Long ago, when we started to see the NWTF veer off course from helping wild turkeys to the current state of "what can we do to raise more money to feed our corporate machine?", we should collectively have spoken up and told the leadership that we did not like the direction NWTF was headed. 

Too many folks now just look at the NWTF as "party central" for turkey hunters.  Gone is the fundamental mission of making sure wild turkey populations are thriving across the country.  At this point, the only way that will change is if turkey hunters band together and tell them to either get back to that mission or "we (and our dollars) are outta here". 

Honestly, probably the best thing that could happen is if a large group of organized turkey hunters banded together to form a new organization that got back to that original mission.  Raise money for, and spend it on wild turkeys without building that money-swallowing corporate infrastructure.  That is what happened with the NWTF,...and now they have no choice but to feed it to keep the status quo. 

Really, things need to start over from "square one",...or at least that's the view from here...

[eggshell]

I agree Gobblenut, at least to an extent. I think many have pulled their support, I have. I also was very active in the 70s up to 90s and then it went south. I have watched many organizations over the decades and all of them started with the same core principles of protecting and enhancing wildlife and fish populations. The founders had the heart and drive, but in time they get so big they have to commit to being a full time job. So they set up the structure and build on it and that's all good. Then the people with the core principles start to age out. If they have not maintained a structured system that prioritizes qualifications of personnel following them they get career people, not resource dedicated people. They also have to maintain a mission. It's tough to do. I have assisted some sportsmen's associations in organizing before and It's a tough go. You need people that will go all in and drive the ship. It eventually gets overwhelming and this is where the rub comes. I actually chair a nonprofit right now and have for years. When I am gone I fear where the next person will take it, so I keep an eye out for someone with the same passion as me. If you get exhausted and just hire someone to run the show they look at it as a salary and not a mission. To them the bigger financial profile you build the more they make. This is what happened to the NWTF in my opinion. I once helped a Muskie fishing club get started and it turned into a big state wide club with hundreds of members. One thing that made it work so well, every single dime was returned to the resource or the club members. I actually reared Muskies in the State Hatchery I ran and these people funded a lot of my work. Eventually it overwhelmed the officers and they wanted out, no one with passion stepped up and it fell apart. One way to help is to infiltrate management with the type people you want. As with most things, there are no easy answers