YouTube and public land

[Kyle_Ott]

Everybody found out that THP was on Bienville last year and it's now the number one draw application WMA in the state of Mississippi.  Everybody knows that Dave hunts Homochitto; ask a local how enjoyable things are down there from a pressure perspective.

You can't blame Dave or THP because they didn't reveal their locations. The blame lies at the feet of those that publish that info on forums and Facebook. Your post is a prime example of this. If anyone reading this thread didn't know where they were hunting in Mississippi, they certainly do now.

The irony of you attempting to make the case against me for putting that out there is nothing less than hilarious, Shane.

It's already common knowledge. Do you know why?  Because they publicly disclosed they were in Mississippi and there are many unique attributes about that particular WMA that allowed people to figure it out.  Without disclosing the state, it would've been difficult to narrow down.  And it sure as hell wouldn't be the number one draw choice right now. 

What about when THP went to the public land around Nashville and bowhunted it via boat with Seekone?  They literally said they were in Tennessee.

Get out of here with your flawed attempts to defend what is purely feigned discretion. 

[arkrem870]

Living in arkansas and seeing what social media/YouTube has done to our public duck hunting is sickening.  Now we are doing it to turkeys hunting as well.....

[deerhunt1988]

THP showed a fan coming up to them at a gas station one morning.  Just to prove a point, I told a buddy, give me 30 minutes and I'll tell you where they are.  Using google street view, Took about 10 before I figured it out. Guess what, they were right next to a piece of public, where they were showing gobbling birds.   
Same can be said for guys talking about a distance from an airport, city, etc. all it takes is showing an exit sign and people can hone in. 

If you guys think these YouTube hunters aren't putting a lot more people in these areas they publicize, you are dead wrong. 
Once you see an area(s) bombarded with people after someone puts a video out there, your attitude tends to change...
buddy of mine sent a podcast about Dave Owens talking about how bad the pressure on south FL public has became.  Why do you think that is

Dave has single handedly changed the dynamics of hunting on Big Cypress and he will continue to kill turkeys there despite the pressure because he is tenacious and talented.  A close industry friend of mine who hunted down there last year was told by the ranger there was a 400% increase in the number of people who hunted a particular area on opening weekend compared to opening weekends in the past. 

Everybody found out that THP was on Bienville last year and it's now the number one draw application WMA in the state of Mississippi.  Everybody knows that Dave hunts Homochitto; ask a local how enjoyable things are down there from a pressure perspective. 

There are countless locals who have had Youtubers visit their local public hunting spots only to deal with the masses who descend afterwards.  The reality is, the average turkey hunter doesn't have the disposable income or the vacation time to travel all over the country and they have to deal with the consequences of exposure once it happens. 

The majority of the United States now has a decreasing turkey population despite the fact that turkey hunter numbers are increasing.  There are still plenty of places a guy can go and hear turkeys gobble, BUT the reality is most of those places were considerably better 5,10 and 15 years ago. 

Most people have not travelled extensively enough or long enough to have any perspective on this.  I started hunting out of stated in 2003.  There is something impactfully saddening about visiting a piece of public land where gobbling turkeys were abundant 15 years ago to see it over run with trucks.  If you've never experienced it, I'm happy for you.  But no one can tell me it's better for the turkeys.  As far as I'm concerned, until we start shortening season lengths and reducing bag limits, the turkeys don't need additional hunter recruitment and they sure don't need Youtubers broadcasting where you can get unlimited OTC tags to kill turkeys until your trigger finger is broken or your conscience finally catches up to you. 

To be clear, I don't have any fundamental problems with videoed turkey hunting.  I've consumed thousands of hours of it from the earliest Truth series videos, to Cutt'n and Strutt'n to Youtube.  But for the life of me, I do not understand why the YouTube crowd feels compelled to disclose what state and/or region they are hunting when it comes to public land.  It's unnecessary and it's the the root of the problem but they continue to do it.   

My opinions are not popular among the fanboys and everyone promoting inclusion these days but they are formulated based on a lot of personal experience and quantifiable data (harvest numbers, population data, etc).  Turkey hunting is more fun with more gobbling turkeys in the woods.  Despite the fact that it's rewarding, it's considerably less fun when you have to walk 15 miles in a day to find one.  My kid can participate in plenty of activities that provide more immediate rewards and satisfaction than turkey hunting on public land offers a kid these days.  The better hunting is on private land and you're going to continue to see lease prices escalate as those with $$$ become more willing to pay absurd prices to avoid the public land rat race. 

Goodluck this spring.

This guy gets it. 

[deerhunt1988]

Everybody found out that THP was on Bienville last year and it's now the number one draw application WMA in the state of Mississippi.  Everybody knows that Dave hunts Homochitto; ask a local how enjoyable things are down there from a pressure perspective.

You can't blame Dave or THP because they didn't reveal their locations. The blame lies at the feet of those that publish that info on forums and Facebook. Your post is a prime example of this. If anyone reading this thread didn't know where they were hunting in Mississippi, they certainly do now.

Dave and THP have a much greater outreach than this forum now.

And they both said they were hunting Mississippi.

[deerhunt1988]

I'd be plenty happy if they stuck their video cameras where the sun doesn't shine and let people figure things out on their own.

The wild turkey was doing a hell of a lot better than it is right now before all the youtubers and media brands began highlighting public lands and areas of the country with robust turkey populations.  Now we have a rapidly declining turkey population while turkey hunter numbers are surging and harvest rates are high.

If you believe the wild turkey is better off with the amount of exposure it has been and continues to receive, I've got some ocean front property in Colorado for you.

Come on man! You could wipe out the entire population of turkeys on all public lands east of the Mississippi and it wouldn't make a significant difference in the overall population of wild turkeys in that area of the country. To blame YouTubers for the decline in turkey populations is just silly.

But what if the public lands are the only place a fellow has to hunt?

[simpzenith]

Living in arkansas and seeing what social media/YouTube has done to our public duck hunting is sickening.  Now we are doing it to turkeys hunting as well.....

Based on the number of Arkansas hunters I run into while hunting other states, I'd say that they are single handedly responsible for the turkey decline. 

[deerhunt1988]

What about when THP went to the public land around Nashville and bowhunted it via boat with Seekone?  They literally said they were in Tennessee.

Definitely sucks for the locals who've been hunting that way in the area. GUARANTEE hunting pressure via boat will increase on those public lands this spring.

I actually had a local reach out to me after a FB post I made. He said after the TN boat deer videos, boat ramp traffic from hunters increased drastically. Ramps he rarely saw a hunter at had multiple trucks after those videos.

[Jbird22]

A few things I find ironic about this thread...

#1 - Some of the ones complaining about Youtubers sharing too much info are the same ones who have used forums and social media to e-scout and gather info for years now. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

#2 - People gripe and complain about how social media is ruining everything (and it is) yet they still have accounts on every major platform. If you hate it so badly, then why do you still participate?

[catman529]

Dave and THP have a much greater outreach than this forum now.

And they both said they were hunting Mississippi.

All these posts here show up on Google searches. It doesn't take but a minute to find out where everyone's talking about in this thread. Doesn't make much sense complaining about someone who makes videos while posting all the intel on a public forum that is crawled by search engines... one of the first things I do when I want to turkey hunt another state is pop a few google searches, and topics like this come up. That would tell me all I needed to know about the local turkey population. I wouldn't even have to watch a video to find out, Google is faster.


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[eggshell]

Gobblenut, we really need to meet sometime before two old men run out of turkey time! I think we are a lot in the same mind set.

There are a lot of opinions shared and a lot of passion involved in this thread. I like everyone else have mine and some are most likely wrong. I have had the privilege of having access to inside management information and I have been at this since turkey hunting's infancy in my area. I worked 31 years for our Division of Wildlife. I have seen the good the bad and the ugly. I also have a degree in wildlife management, to boot. I do have some scientific basis to my opinions. That does not mean I am infallible.

There is not much science on youtube hunting videos impact on turkey populations from increased hunting, most opinions are based on speculation and personal experience or passion. However; there is research on hunting pressure's impact  on gobbler densities and recruitment (no I didn't look up the citations, but it's out there). The research I am familiar with found we are very impactful on gobbler populations on public ground. We are actually very good at killing gobblers as a community. Some of this research also says that birds move away from pressure. So when Shane says "The density of turkeys on private is also much higher.", he is correct. However, this is also a conviction of pressure on public land. Those densities are a result, to some degree of public pressure.

I don't think many of us dispute that overall turkey populations are declining. The state and federal wildlife agencies are working on it, whether everyone believes it or not. My best guess is that multiple factors are involved. I think Habitat, disease, genetics, hunting pressure and weather all have a part. sorting out the primary reason will take time and research. I do not believe hunting is a primary broad scope problem.

The regulations are good that are in place and allow for a sustainable harvest. Are there areas in the country that may need some restricted harvest, sure there are. These are mostly localized and specific. I do think that a sudden concentration of hunting pressure can be very impactful on a small area or region. Yes, video production can cause this. In those areas it's not only the gobblers killed that impact the population, but the disturbance of nesting behavior from more encounters with man. It is well known hens are prone to abandon nest after one flush from the nest. Shane's rebuttal of my post was that the harvest or hunting on public land does not have a significant impact on local populations and to think so is ridiculous. Well I don't have the science to support either stance, so that is just a difference of opinion. I'm ok with that and I hope he is too.

what we saw happen when turkeys were reintroduced was an explosion of birds to fill a void that was unoccupied. Wildlife tendencies are to over populate and expand. Once saturation occurs then the population reseeds to a carrying capacity that is historically sustainable. This is what we are seeing in many places and does not alarm biologist. It's when we see populations fall below estimated or historic Carrying capacity that alarms go off. This is happening in some area. The blame is yet to be determined.

As to increased hunting pressure and it's impact. I think it comes down to aesthetic values, for the most part. We don't like sharing our personal space. We hunt for the value of the hunt and also for success. Increased pressure devalues both of these. The quality of the personal experience is lessened. What does it actually do to populations? Here is my opinion: Scientifically it probably is a low value impact. the birds can simply move away from pressure for a while. The more significant impact is localized in lost gobblers to hunt and disturbed nesting. I also believe that the attitude of take all I can get because it doesn't matter in the big picture is a poor approach. This is my biggest beef with the video guys. You roll in get your video footage and leave for the next place. I  get the feeling there is not much concern for what is left behind. The people who live and rely on these local spots are often devastated by unconcern to keep locations unknown. Not to the same extent, but it kind of like the Buffalo hunters of the pioneer west....they rolled in and killed off a whole heard and the poor Indian's livelihood was devastated. I remember seeing a picture of an Indian overlooking a killing field and tears running down his cheek.

What I say to the video producers is have some heart for those who's home ground you visit. We enjoy your work and realize it's what you do to put food on the table, but do it with some thought and consideration for those you leave behind. You really don't want to be thought of as the guys who raped my land.

[simpzenith]

Well I don't have the science to support either stance, so that is just a difference of opinion. I'm ok with that and I hope he is too.

I also believe that the attitude of take all I can get because it doesn't matter in the big picture is a poor approach. This is my biggest beef with the video guys. You roll in get your video footage and leave for the next place. I  get the feeling there is not much concern for what is left behind.

Yes, I'm okay with anyone's opinion even if I don't agree with it.

I can't speak for the others but I'm usually a one and done guy when I travel to different states. Even if a state allows for multiple birds to be harvested, once I kill just one, I'm happy and in most cases, I head home with unused tags and days remaining to hunt. I just enjoy traveling and seeing different areas of the country as much as I enjoy turkey hunting.

[deerhunt1988]

Living in arkansas and seeing what social media/YouTube has done to our public duck hunting is sickening.  Now we are doing it to turkeys hunting as well.....

Based on the number of Arkansas hunters I run into while hunting other states, I'd say that they are single handedly responsible for the turkey decline. 

One great thing about all this discussion, is that we can always blame it on Arkansas hunters. 

[quavers59]

   Very good Thread here, I  have been following.

[PaytonWP]

Dave and THP have a much greater outreach than this forum now.

And they both said they were hunting Mississippi.

All these posts here show up on Google searches. It doesn't take but a minute to find out where everyone's talking about in this thread. Doesn't make much sense complaining about someone who makes videos while posting all the intel on a public forum that is crawled by search engines... one of the first things I do when I want to turkey hunt another state is pop a few google searches, and topics like this come up. That would tell me all I needed to know about the local turkey population. I wouldn't even have to watch a video to find out, Google is faster.


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That's very true catman and I wish people wouldn't post any kind of information about specific areas. On the other hand I have witnessed one of your videos directly influence an area where I hunt. It's actually a spot where I killed my first turkey. It used to be an over looked spot, I could go there just about any time and not see a truck there. The year after you made a video there showing a field "in an area where there's not many fields at all"  people started showing up. I'm sure it will be a circus this year after the videos of you and devin. Btw unless y'all asked for landowners permission, y'all were bicycling all through private land. That forest road is not on a motor vehicle use map. Technically that road ends a few hundred yards from the gate because of private property.

[quavers59]

   I hope " The Hunting  Pubic" does not pick my main Public areas this Spring.