YouTube and public land

[sasquatch1]

I started out hunting on public land in 1980 and started to travel out of state hunting on public land around 1990. When I started traveling to hunt you had to get the road maps to get you where you wanted to go, you had to obtain the topo maps of your hunting area, and you had to know how to use a map and compass. We now have mapping apps that will take you to your destination and topo maps with GPS on our phones. I think this has emboldened more people to travel out of state and to walk further from their truck than they ever would have before. Most people used to stay closer to the roads they walked in on for fear of getting lost. Now they just drop a pin at their truck and their fear is gone. I think the YouTubers might have gotten them interested in the first place, but it takes a lot less effort to plan trips nowadays than ever before. You used to have to write or call to speak to the state turkey biologist to get recommendations on where to go. Research and obtaining maps used to take 3 months, now you just "Google" it, and see where your favorite internet hero is hunting.
You can figure out where to go now in 3 days, or have your friend "give you a pin". What used to be a small fraternity of die-hards who couldn't care less about what people thought of them has now been replaced by hunters wanting to post pictures, and seeking likes and thumbs up.
Hard core has been replaced by look at me.

This hits the nail on the head.

I'd bet there's ALOT that hunt today that would quit if social media went away. Once they can't get Internet likes they'd lose interest in the sport.

Soooo many people today are out there to get validation from people they don't even know. It's truly sad.

Have we let society take our feeling of self worth away with handouts to where this is the reaction to the action?


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[Extendo Clip]

Lots of good points here.  What about having to buy extra tags for non-residents?   If you want to shoot more than one, pay for another tag. 

As a relatively new turkey hunter now hunting in Georgia, it surprises me to see the amount of backlash against the potential changes to the season here from hunters who have supposedly been hunting them for a long time.  The story of the wild turkey restoration is often cited to new hunters and non-hunters as the paramount of the hunter-backed conservation success.  Surely some of those so against a season change remember when the number of turkeys in the state numbered about equal to last year's harvest?  Anyways, that's a bit off topic, but eggshell's post made me think of it.

For the youtube channels, I have no doubt it increases pressure on areas.  Do some turkey's get killed as a result of the pressure?  Sure.  But probably not as many as the amount of pressure would indicate.  Georgia publishes harvest by WMA, and I went to one highly pressured WMA throughout the season that gets mentioned in the occasional article or forum post and has decent harvest numbers every year.  There were always a bunch of other vehicles there, but there were also still birds gobbling on the last day.  All that is to say that there are other factors that increase pressure too. 

On the other hand, I would be upset if one of my spots saw an increase in pressure because of a youtube video.  Most of us hunt for more than the kill, and more pressure lessens the overall experience we are after.  So, I would recommend to those channels to stop showing us the highway exit montage, stop showing us the pulling up to the forest service gate clip, stop telling us, "we are here in northwest ____." I think the channels generally do a good job, but every now and then things slip.  A little more time spent thinking about it could go a long way.

To me, if the channel shows ethical and responsible hunting on public land and takes care not to name drop, that's a good thing.  There are too many channels that are all about "well me an' bo got out here today real tough hunt but we got it done that tss really hammers em laid that ol boy out good we got it done."   At least the channels mentioned in the thread so far take care to show them turning around when another truck is at the gate, or explaining why they couldn't take a shot across the public/private boundary (I have no idea if they actually do the right thing off camera, but at least they are showing it on camera).  I taught myself to hunt, and if I hadn't seen these videos I would not have had someone to tell me, "hey, there's a truck here already lets go on to plan b."  If all I had seen were the kill-shot videos, I would probably still be bumbling through the woods behind other hunters spooking turkeys and ruining others' hunts. All I can hope is that other hunters are taking the good things away from watching these videos and not just watching for a sliver of info as to where a turkey might have been killed 3 states away.



Some thoughts from a youtube-generation hunter.   

[quavers59]

   Very good post above- Extendo Clip!

[runngun]

And just to think, I remember when Catman first came to this very forum and posted a video he recorded himself.  Also remember everyone was impressed with his desire and passion. It was awesome, to me then and still is today.

Have a good one
Ray

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[eggshell]

extended clip, Here in Ohio we all buy our tags separately, if you want to kill two gobblers you pay for two tags, but you can buy them separately day to day. That is resident and non-resident alike, but the non-resident pays more for a hunting license. I have seen guys kill one and stop because they don't want to spend more money.If they have hunted a couple days and about ready to go home they opt out, but if they kill one in the 1st hr of the 1st day they usually buy another tag. I kind of like this system as you don't throw money away on a tag you may never get to use. Buy one and see how your hunt goes, then buy another if you tag one.

[Extendo Clip]

extended clip, Here in Ohio we all buy our tags separately, if you want to kill two gobblers you pay for two tags, but you can buy them separately day to day. That is resident and non-resident alike, but the non-resident pays more for a hunting license. I have seen guys kill one and stop because they don't want to spend more money.If they have hunted a couple days and about ready to go home they opt out, but if they kill one in the 1st hr of the 1st day they usually buy another tag. I kind of like this system as you don't throw money away on a tag you may never get to use. Buy one and see how your hunt goes, then buy another if you tag one.

That's the system I was thinking of. I knew some states did it that way but wasn't sure which ones.

[Jimspur]

I like the way Pennsylvania does it. If you want to buy a second tag you have to buy it before the season starts.

That way the state gets the money whether you kill one or not, and if you decide to go there after the season starts you can only kill one.

[Brian Fahs]

I like the way Pennsylvania does it. If you want to buy a second tag you have to buy it before the season starts.

That way the state gets the money whether you kill one or not, and if you decide to go there after the season starts you can only kill one.

Yeah. I'm a pennsylvania resident and have to buy the bonus tag prior to the season opener.

I have no problem with the rule.

[Bowguy]

I didn't read all the posts and I see it's a year old but it's still a valid point. Guys need to stop advertising exactly where. That's pretty obvious

[Cove]

I haven't visited the forum in a good long while. I intend to make this post and will most likely not return for another good long spell, simply due to it being a couple weeks until "kick-off" and my plate is rather full. That being said I thought a few things were worth mentioning. . .

There are specifics mentioned in this thread that have never publicly been disclosed (until now) and what's even more comical? A few of those specifics are incorrect. I suppose this is a testament to my elusiveness through video.  Also proves something I'll hit on in just a bit about people listening to talk rather than gaining the experience to "ground truth" the claims.

Secondly, I find it interesting that several critics of YouTube hunters received their "schooling" from forums such as this one. One in particular even reached out to me wanting to help/ contribute/ come along before I explained this "thing" I was doing was just a guy with a video camera. There wasn't going to be a "prostaff" or teams for collecting content. Heck, I expected the curtains to pull shut at any minute (and still do). YouTube is the new (and admittedly more efficient) hunting forum. It's almost like you wanted to read the instructions and then burn them for those that followed. Why? Wouldn't it be great if the newest generation of turkey hunters that we were entering the timber alongside us had been exposed to hunting that illustrated sound ethics, respect for their quarry and at least some basic "know how?" Its easy to forget but remember, we all had to start somewhere.

Further, many of the critics listen too much but fail to experience enough. Has the YouTube crowd just become another "out" for those that define success as blood and feathers? The "he's henned up" excuse kind of went out the window with the new tools that have been introduced I suppose. Did someone/ something have to become the newest whippin' post? Example in point, Big Cypress, the place is enormous and has always been a zoo, it will always be a zoo. If you watch a video and drive down there in 3 weeks with your shotgun, chances are you're going to have difficulty even accessing the place. My point being, one must prove diligent in hunting those type areas regardless of what motivated them to do so. If someone watched a video and in fact put forth that effort, traveled to sunny south Florida and killed a gobbler then It would appear the content reached the target audience and performed as intended. I think providing motivation to achieve bucket list items (for many folks) is a wonderful thing and I will not apologize for it.  Several critics take the word of others as gospel rather than having experiences to give their claims any validity. They didn't hunt the areas before YouTube and they haven't hunted the areas since YouTube yet their opinion still hold the same "water" when spewed across platforms such as these for the world to read. That "world" then formulates their own, now skewed, opinions because if it's on the internet it must be true, right?

I could go on about the irony but for times sake I'll end that portion of the show.


Continuing. . .
Are there problems created from this YouTube era? Coming from one of those contributing. . . absolutely.

Creators have a responsibility to protect the areas they choose to visit. I inspect my videos with utmost detail and would like to think only locals would be able to recognize. Locals are already providing pressure, nothing new there. I'm constantly amazed by many of those locals who reply to videos or posts with "oh I know where y'all are, that's over at ____, or my favorite "I saw ___ truck at ___ WMA last week." I am not sure how to combat that.

One of my biggest issues? Social media as a whole has motivated a small number to strive for "kill counts" and become nothing more than murders. That disgusts me. Is this to gain some type of validity? I'm unsure. Would this have happened without THP, Pinhoti, Catman? Most likely, social media wasn't going anywhere. But, I dislike knowing I may be been some type of contributor even in the smallest way. After being asked countless times, I have NEVER mentioned a kill number and never will. It's not important. I have always stressed the significance of the battle and not the death. Respect will always be a main ingredient of my content. Talking about kill numbers flies directly in the face of that (my opinion).

And in conclusion because this has gone on WAY too long and I need to get to bed. I am a firm believer that if brands such as myself are not giving back to the resource more than we are taking from it then we have ultimately failed. In a time of population declines, if we aren't using our platforms to motivate hunters to help the wild turkey with things such as predator management, habitat improvements, involvement in public input, understanding regulation proposals among many other things then we have failed. If creators aren't portraying hunting in a positive light and rather making it distasteful to nonhunters, we have failed. If creators aren't using their platforms to highlight non-profits and the miracles possible through assisting the less fortunate, then we have failed. This is where viewers should be holding brands/ creators accountable. Not crying because someone pulled up to you at "your" gate - BUT WAIT- if they're a loyal follower, they'll most likely turn around to find plan B. 

Best of Luck to you guys this Spring. And for those of you that can stomach the Pinhoti Project content- my sincerest 

[Upfold99]

Pinhoti opened my eyes to  whole different aspect of my favorite thing to do. I always hung up the boots after local season. I watched season 1 on Pinhoti Project the year it was released and have not missed an episode yet. It made me realize that traveling to turkey hunt was something I could do and had never given it much thought.

I have now been to several states that I would have probably not visited and had some of the best trips of my life. I can't thank Dave enough.

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[eggshell]

Cove,

do you care to share a link to your work or a name, is it the Pinhoti Project ? I'd like to view your work  and see for myself the quality. As with most things there are those who do it right and those who don't, we hope that most do, but social media does not have a quality filter and is way too easy to pass off crap. I don't know how to fix it, so I guess I just resort to complaining enough that it gets attention. whether you are pissed at all the comments or not, one thing is true, the thread got at least two video producers to join in and defend their field. I think that is a good thing, because maybe you'll be thinking about some of this discussion as you film this year and if that means you'll put a little more thought into the content you produce then we have succeeded. I worked a lot of years in the public field and I learned very early that I had to have Rhino skin. I have been called everything imaginable and blamed for more than I can imagine, all while trying to do my very best to make the resource better for the very person degrading me. Yes, I got pissed at times, but it always made me look harder at what I was doing. The fact you and Shane cared enough to engage us speaks well of both. Good luck to you as well

[quavers59]

   I have watched some Turkey  Videos of most of these guys- catman,pinhoti project,The Hunting Public, Shane Simpson,O.F. Mossberg + Sons, Dale Outdoors,etc.
   Probably  the worst video,I  have ever seen was - O.F. Mossberg + Sons- Greatest Mistake Of Calling Hens.
    Personally, I  have called in plenty of Tom's with Clucks + Purrs.  I don't  get how Clucks + Purrs are counterproductive.   
    I think that all these Guys should not use the camera while driving and nearing their Turkey hunting area. I keep trying to figure out where they are.
  As far as the Turkey Educational  Videos out there,I  think Dale Outdoors- Matt Dale is Tops.
   What,I  have learned  though that just like the original- Candid Camera Series where at the end they say- We Might Be In Your Town Next..
   Anyway,I  have Hiked extensively probably  30 miles in all directions  around where,I  live. So far,I  have not seen any familiar  Hardwoods,etc- but Spring is coming on the Public Lands soon

[cuttinAR]

Dave- it's real simple.  They hate you, because they ain't you.

Keep up the good work and as you say limit the info on where you are hunting best you can.  I've been hunting for over 20 years and enjoy the heck out of your videos cause of the respect for turkeys and lessons you are teaching.  I've also learned a few things as well.

For those that are complaining about public land- it's always one thing or another to blame for why it's gone downhill or more crowded.  I grew up hunting bayou meto for ducks here in Arkansas.  Probably the most popular public hunting area you will find anywhere.  The bitching has always been there, it just changes over time as to what is being bitched about.  The problem lies in the fact that public land is a limited resource and we have lots of hunters vying for that resource.  There is no good answer to solve that problem.  Be respectful and hunt hard is the best approach.

[The Southpaw]

Great words, Dave.