True POA and POI shotguns don't exist???

[Gutsdozer]

Silly I know but man if I am spending the money on a top of the line Benelli, Beretta or Browning I'd like to have one that actually shot a true POA and POI. I was looking at the SBE3 and know a few duck hunters that use them. They are spending $1,700 on a shotgun that doesn't hit where they are aiming ( I don't think they are lousy shots like I tell them). This kinda scares me since I may be in the market for a top of the line sorta do all shotgun in the summer.  I was looking mainly at the above mentioned manufacturers.

I guess my question is are there any guns/manufactures that give you a better chance after spending that kind of money and having the gun hit where you aim without having to red dot it???

[mightyjoeyoung]

The Benelli line of shotguns, believe it or not,  weren't made with the turkey hunter in mind. They're designed to be flushing guns, shooting poi where the bird would be flushing either away or to the shooter.  Most of them shoot between 6 and 10 inches higher than poa and this is normal.   

[Spurs Up]

IMO...single shots and maybe one of the barrels of an over/under are the closest thing to that. And, coupled with a red dot or adjustable rear sights provide the most consistent shot to shot performance. That said, you can expect differences between loads with most all guns.

[Bowguy]

IMO...single shots and maybe one of the barrels of an over/under are the closest thing to that. And, coupled with a red dot or adjustable rear sights provide the most consistent shot to shot performance. That said, you can expect differences between loads with most all guns.

Doubled barreled guns have both barrels off but intercepting at one point. Hopefully they overlap enough and normally do but true poa they're not in either barrel.

To the op now you can shoot 10 dif loads and get 10 dif results. You need most often sights. If it's a turkey gun you're sweating something you need not to.
Best I can describe it is a rifle. Imagine you sight the rifle in. Most folks know it's not there forever, you switch ammo and you need to resight the in cause poi moves. Even changing primers, adjusting seating depth, overall length, dif brass, powder, etc  all could/most likely would change poi. Certainly it would with a change of ammo in general
Look at a shotgun as a "single projectile" type weapon. No gun will shoot every load, especially with every choke, certainly if it's a tight extra full turkey choke the same place with your changes. Hope this made sense.
I spoke with a fellow the other day who is in charge of hunter ed in my state. I told him this may be one area many don't understand. We need to incorporate this discussion in our upcoming classes imo.

[jrmcclure]

From what I've seen over/unders are the worst, one if not both barrels will be off. Doesn't matter much with sporting Clay's chokes as the patterns are more open and cover there faults. Turkey chokes in an over/under will exaggerate the fact it doesn't shoot where your aiming. I rabbit hunt with a Steven's 555 28 gauge with a modified choke and lead 6's its killed a pile. Full choke and tss shows that both barrels are off 6-8" one is low one is left.

My beretta shoots high as others have mentioned I believe the European guns come from the factory setup that way. 70/30 or 80/20 patterns are common.

The two brands that shoot the straightest for me have been cheap pumps. Mossberg and Remington are American made and set from the factory to shoot 50/50 patterns.

[mudhen]

Ithaca Model 37...

Very true bore...

[1iagobblergetter]

I haven't heard much on Remingtons or Mossbergs bad for Poa/Poi.
Benellis on the other hand while your picking up your new gun just go ahead and grab some kind of sight.(scope/red dot) and be done with it. Lol... I wont buy another one for turkeys. Way to finicky for my liking.
You can change Poa/Poi by changing chokes and or shells in them. I've done alot of cussing and spending money on them over the years getting them to shoot where I want or real close without using add on sighting devices.
Someone posted quite sometime ago on a gunsmith that was good on slightly bending the barrel and then they'd shoot poa/poi. He was supposed to give the guys name up,but I don't know whatever became of it.
I basically leave mine in the gun safe and just grab my Encore.

[Bowguy]

From what I've seen over/unders are the worst, one if not both barrels will be off. Doesn't matter much with sporting Clay's chokes as the patterns are more open and cover there faults. Turkey chokes in an over/under will exaggerate the fact it doesn't shoot where your aiming. I rabbit hunt with a Steven's 555 28 gauge with a modified choke and lead 6's its killed a pile. Full choke and tss shows that both barrels are off 6-8" one is low one is left.

My beretta shoots high as others have mentioned I believe the European guns come from the factory setup that way. 70/30 or 80/20 patterns are common.

The two brands that shoot the straightest for me have been cheap pumps. Mossberg and Remington are American made and set from the factory to shoot 50/50 patterns.

Cheap double guns are horrendous. Good ones are worked to be on. That's part of price difference. Top barrel and bottom barrel on ou are made to hit same/similar poi at a certain yardage. It's impossible to get em exact all ranges

[Gutsdozer]

The Benelli line of shotguns, believe it or not,  weren't made with the turkey hunter in mind. They're designed to be flushing guns, shooting poi where the bird would be flushing either away or to the shooter.  Most of them shoot between 6 and 10 inches higher than poa and this is normal.

Has this been "offcially" stated by Benelli about the intended use and POI/POA? I only ask because this seems pretty significant.

[Gutsdozer]

Ithaca Model 37...

Very true bore...

Correct me if I am wrong (which happens a lot) but, aren't Ithaca's receivers and barrels one piece? I have always wanted to get my hands on a turkeyslayer model. No one I know has ever had or even seen one unfortunately.

[badwolf]

Had a Mossberg that shot a foot and a half high, thats when I started using scopes.

[Tom007]

Great conversation. We are all noticing this subject with the development of these new loads. I have 2 Super black eagles. I use one for waterfowl, and have the Steady grip model for Turkey. PS, got them when they first came out, sub 1000 bucks. They have a pretty good POI. My eyes are not what they used to be, so I have optics on my turkey guns. Pretty much guarantees center shot with consistent loads. I know that people that do not want optics can add a mid barrel 2nd bead if the gun only has one. That helps getting the shooting plane more lined with the barrel. Great subject, very informative. Be safe, good luck...

[Turkeytider]

The Benelli line of shotguns, believe it or not,  weren't made with the turkey hunter in mind. They're designed to be flushing guns, shooting poi where the bird would be flushing either away or to the shooter.  Most of them shoot between 6 and 10 inches higher than poa and this is normal.

Has this been "offcially" stated by Benelli about the intended use and POI/POA? I only ask because this seems pretty significant.

This has been a prominent subject on Shotgun World (great web site for all things shotgun). The SBE III is designed to shoot high apparently as opposed to the SBE II.

[Bowguy]

Ithaca Model 37...

Very true bore...

Correct me if I am wrong (which happens a lot) but, aren't Ithaca's receivers and barrels one piece? I have always wanted to get my hands on a turkeyslayer model. No one I know has ever had or even seen one unfortunately.

One piece

[THattaway]

The best POA/POIs I've owned were older remingtons and usually 870s. Have had 2 newer 20ga 1187s that both shot below the bead with rib leveled. Mention this issue with wing and clay shooters and you will get a tirade about gun fitment. Maybe it's just me but a gun should shoot 50/50 or 60/40 with the rib leveled and bead on target. I have an assortment of shotguns and like some of them capable of hunting both turkeys and other stuff without the need to install sights.