TSS VS LEAD

[Spitten and drummen]

With a 12ga. I personally would stick with lead. I started handloading Tss 6 or 7 years ago for a 20ga to test it out. I have not toted a 12 since. The stuff is devestating. Some people scoff at it because of the price. Thing is , you are not dove hunting with the stuff. No doubt that shooting it through a 12ga would be extremely potent. I would put my 20 loaded with it up against any 12ga. The 20 with Tss exceeds the capability of a 12 ga with lead. It retains a pile more energy , does not deform and patterns are unbelievable. A tss #9 is on par with a lead #4 . You also can get alot more number 9s in a hull than number 4s. Lead has accounted for truckloads of birds and are very effective. #9 Tss just does it better.

[jryser]

I love lead. Killed a pile of turkeys with #5 Winchester Supremes in my SBE II. I love TSS. The ONLY reason I prefer TSS is I really enjoy loading my own and learning to make em better every time.  There is something about killing a turkey with a shell I made (or watching someone else kill one with a shell I made!) that just adds to the excitement of the entire ball of wax right down to eating em!!!


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[Greg Massey]

Nothing wrong with loading TSS at all... but I have enough Apex to last me lifetime ....lol..... don't have to worry about having the equipment or Tss shot laying around ... one type or load is all i need and i don't have to waste a lot sighting my gun over changing loads ... but for you who reload TSS ... that pretty neat also, it's all about enjoying turkey hunting ...

[Bowguy]

I love lead. Killed a pile of turkeys with #5 Winchester Supremes in my SBE II. I love TSS. The ONLY reason I prefer TSS is I really enjoy loading my own and learning to make em better every time.  There is something about killing a turkey with a shell I made (or watching someone else kill one with a shell I made!) that just adds to the excitement of the entire ball of wax right down to eating em!!!


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I fully understand loading and the idea of shooting shells you've made. Kinda adds more of you into it. The TSS aren't necessary for that. You could load any type shells if the only reason you use TSS is cause of loading

[Big Jeremy]

I got similar results out of each of them. As Gooserbat said, Federal liked to be choked tighter than Apex in my gun. I handload 2oz. 3" also, and use probably about the same exact setup that he does (Hal's recipe) with basically the same wad as Apex. My handloads did just a hair better than Apex out of my gun, but have a friend that tried both of them, and the Apex had about 20 more hits in the 10" for him. Close enough.

Anyway, I'd probably recommend getting the Federal, and using a tight choke. They are a couple of bucks cheaper per shell, and you can get them lots of places.

[jryser]

I love lead. Killed a pile of turkeys with #5 Winchester Supremes in my SBE II. I love TSS. The ONLY reason I prefer TSS is I really enjoy loading my own and learning to make em better every time.  There is something about killing a turkey with a shell I made (or watching someone else kill one with a shell I made!) that just adds to the excitement of the entire ball of wax right down to eating em!!!


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I fully understand loading and the idea of shooting shells you've made. Kinda adds more of you into it. The TSS aren't necessary for that. You could load any type shells if the only reason you use TSS is cause of loading

True. I do like the extra clean kill chances too.


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[owlhoot]

I love lead. Killed a pile of turkeys with #5 Winchester Supremes in my SBE II. I love TSS. The ONLY reason I prefer TSS is I really enjoy loading my own and learning to make em better every time.  There is something about killing a turkey with a shell I made (or watching someone else kill one with a shell I made!) that just adds to the excitement of the entire ball of wax right down to eating em!!!


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I fully understand loading and the idea of shooting shells you've made. Kinda adds more of you into it. The TSS aren't necessary for that. You could load any type shells if the only reason you use TSS is cause of loading

Was wondering about the loading and why no one seems to hand load HW7 or Hevi7 ?
Or even the lead 7 1/2 loads to replace the old federal some of you swear by with the high pellets counts it used to have?

[owlhoot]

With a 12ga. I personally would stick with lead. I started handloading Tss 6 or 7 years ago for a 20ga to test it out. I have not toted a 12 since. The stuff is devestating. Some people scoff at it because of the price. Thing is , you are not dove hunting with the stuff. No doubt that shooting it through a 12ga would be extremely potent. I would put my 20 loaded with it up against any 12ga. The 20 with Tss exceeds the capability of a 12 ga with lead. It retains a pile more energy , does not deform and patterns are unbelievable. A tss #9 is on par with a lead #4 . You also can get alot more number 9s in a hull than number 4s. Lead has accounted for truckloads of birds and are very effective. #9 Tss just does it better.

Please explain how a tss 9 is on par with a lead 4? 

[jryser]

I love lead. Killed a pile of turkeys with #5 Winchester Supremes in my SBE II. I love TSS. The ONLY reason I prefer TSS is I really enjoy loading my own and learning to make em better every time.  There is something about killing a turkey with a shell I made (or watching someone else kill one with a shell I made!) that just adds to the excitement of the entire ball of wax right down to eating em!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I fully understand loading and the idea of shooting shells you've made. Kinda adds more of you into it. The TSS aren't necessary for that. You could load any type shells if the only reason you use TSS is cause of loading

Was wondering about the loading and why no one seems to hand load HW7 or Hevi7 ?
Or even the lead 7 1/2 loads to replace the old federal some of you swear by with the high pellets counts it used to have?

One word. RECIPES


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[Spitten and drummen]

With a 12ga. I personally would stick with lead. I started handloading Tss 6 or 7 years ago for a 20ga to test it out. I have not toted a 12 since. The stuff is devestating. Some people scoff at it because of the price. Thing is , you are not dove hunting with the stuff. No doubt that shooting it through a 12ga would be extremely potent. I would put my 20 loaded with it up against any 12ga. The 20 with Tss exceeds the capability of a 12 ga with lead. It retains a pile more energy , does not deform and patterns are unbelievable. A tss #9 is on par with a lead #4 . You also can get alot more number 9s in a hull than number 4s. Lead has accounted for truckloads of birds and are very effective. #9 Tss just does it better.

The hardness of the Tss is much greater than lead. It retaines energy much greater than the lead. The hardness and diameter being smaller along with the retained energy equals greater penatration. Im not a load specialist and relied on the info that was passed on to me. I have tested Tss against lead and do have first hand knowlege on the penetration. Basically I was meaning that the energy in a TSS #9 is compatable to a lead #4. We strive for great patterns along with penitration and the TSS gives those. The only reason I would stick with lead is carrying a 12. The Tss shines with smaller gauges and makes the 20 just as effective as the 12 at 12 gauge distances.

Please explain how a tss 9 is on par with a lead 4?

[Bowguy]

I love lead. Killed a pile of turkeys with #5 Winchester Supremes in my SBE II. I love TSS. The ONLY reason I prefer TSS is I really enjoy loading my own and learning to make em better every time.  There is something about killing a turkey with a shell I made (or watching someone else kill one with a shell I made!) that just adds to the excitement of the entire ball of wax right down to eating em!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I fully understand loading and the idea of shooting shells you've made. Kinda adds more of you into it. The TSS aren't necessary for that. You could load any type shells if the only reason you use TSS is cause of loading

Was wondering about the loading and why no one seems to hand load HW7 or Hevi7 ?
Or even the lead 7 1/2 loads to replace the old federal some of you swear by with the high pellets counts it used to have?

One word. RECIPES


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's not true. Most shot/components are available along w the recipes.

[Bowguy]

I love lead. Killed a pile of turkeys with #5 Winchester Supremes in my SBE II. I love TSS. The ONLY reason I prefer TSS is I really enjoy loading my own and learning to make em better every time.  There is something about killing a turkey with a shell I made (or watching someone else kill one with a shell I made!) that just adds to the excitement of the entire ball of wax right down to eating em!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I fully understand loading and the idea of shooting shells you've made. Kinda adds more of you into it. The TSS aren't necessary for that. You could load any type shells if the only reason you use TSS is cause of loading

Was wondering about the loading and why no one seems to hand load HW7 or Hevi7 ?
Or even the lead 7 1/2 loads to replace the old federal some of you swear by with the high pellets counts it used to have?

I can only speak on a personal level. Most my guns have never seen a factory load. Pistols, rifles, shotguns. I'd cast heads for my muzzleloader, make arrows, etc. myself I don't mind the work n actually like it. To me though being so much is already on my plate setting up to load turkey loads is silly. I shoot a few shells a year. Even my gun wearing a red dot. It was 2 shots to check zero and I killed 3 birds this year. Prob most years 5 or less as I work.  Not really worth setting myself up. Just buy a box every couple years.
Also I'll add many turkey specific items are way over priced, buying components is too pricey. TSS imo is not reloading its loading. Yet very differently than regular loads. At 10 bucks a shell it pays to load that.
I'll be honest another thing that's get me is there's like one recipe provided per gauge. You have no choices. It's just not for me. The buying shells with primers seems silly too. It's way cheaper to buy primers and seat em.
Take into account also forums are somewhat follow the leader. If someone says a load is best, call is best, bow is best, gun is best,  etc pretty soon everyone needs to be on the bandwagon. This is not saying the loads don't work so dont mistake what I'm saying. The popularity of doing something somewhere sorta steers the ship.
How many times, does everyone swear a call is the cats meow only for a year to pass and us see them all posted for sale?
If you want to load another type shot just do a search for information or ask the company you buy the shot from for recipes. Also powder companies often have recipes as well as places that sell supplies and books w the recipes are available as well unless you load TSS. To my knowledge and I could be wrong but this seems much more limited

[Spitten and drummen]

Bowguy , you make alot of good points in your post. It cost 200 bucks for components minus the tss to get started loading. Tss is around 50 bucks a pound. When I bought my first Tss several years ago I received  load data for 3 different loads. I now have 7 or 8 different loads to choose from. Granted once you find a load you like then you dont need all of them. I also build my own arrows , work on my own bows and reload my own rifle rounds. You are absolutely correct about justlfying the cost and time to load. I can load probably 20 shells in a hour, so Im fine with it. I have enough Tss to last my lifetime times 3 probably. I love the stuff because I had never seen such impressive patterns before. Now I had seen some very very good ones but none better. I know that you had to experiment with different loads and chokes to find that optimal pattern but I found out pretty quick that this stuff patterns great with about with any gun choke combo. Factory chokes that come with your guns shoot the stuff well. In the end whats worth it to one may not be to another. You hit the nail on the head with the call part you used as an example. There are a few guys on here that I listen to their opinion about a certain call , but the majority I take no stock in. On this note , a man who has 4 or 5 pot calls says man this is the best pot call I have ever ran May be telling the truth in his opinion but I dont put any stock in it. Its very true that each year a certain call will be the talk of the forum until another comes along the next year to dethrone that one. Same with bows and everything else. A flagship bow comes out and then you see a truckload of the flagship bows from the previous year in the classifieds listed for half what they paid for it. They will say how smooth it is , solid backwall , holds solid , no vibration and how fast it is. "Best bow I have ever shot in my life" until the next one comes out the following year. Its the fact that alot of folks want the latest and sometimes not the greatest. I pretty much agree with your whole post bowguy. Very good points.

[Gobble!]

If your just looking to buy over the counter shells Apex and Nitro will put up higher pellet counts due to their larger payloads. Their shells are also more expensive and can be harder to get.

I highly recommend loading your own if you plan on committing to TSS. I like loading my own for a key reason, quality control. I load TSS because it's the best patterning shot out there. Their are multiple load options out there. That one recipe per gauge stuff is false, at least with who I buy my shot from. Biggest expense to it is the shot itself. Loading will save you a few bucks over the long haul but bottom line is TSS is expensive stuff. I think I'm loading a 2.5oz load for less than $9 a shell where a 2.5oz load from Apex is probably $12 if your paying shipping. From my experience the loading community seems like a great group of people willing to help. I was trying to load a 1.125oz load for my son and was having trouble finding the designated wad to use in that load. Made a post about needing that wad and a fella mailed me a bag of 100 for free.

You don't need the $10 shells to kill turkeys like you are doing now with lead, assuming you are using a 12 gauge now. You can drop down to a 20 gauge and produce tighter patterns than you ever have with a 12 gauge shooting lead. A lot of people are using around 1.5oz of TSS #9s and far exceeding what a 12 gauge with lead could ever do. Pile of people out there killing birds at 40 yards with complete confidence using a .410 as well, try that with lead. At 18g/cc in density for TSS and 11.6g/cc for lead it's not a competition.

[Fdept56]

I was a believer is TSS already but I did have an eye opening experience while patterning. I help coach a trapshooting team and we have a 1/4" steel plate for patterning. All the kids will shoot lead 7.5s or 8s at it and they will flatten out and leave no trace of being there besides removing the grease we put on there so we can see the pattern. My dad hadn't shot his turkey gun since he put sights on it and had it up there with him. At 40 yards the TSS 9s actually made dimples in the steel that has taken 100s of rounds of lead and shown no sign of it.