TSS VS LEAD

[Bowguy]

I was a believer is TSS already but I did have an eye opening experience while patterning. I help coach a trapshooting team and we have a 1/4" steel plate for patterning. All the kids will shoot lead 7.5s or 8s at it and they will flatten out and leave no trace of being there besides removing the grease we put on there so we can see the pattern. My dad hadn't shot his turkey gun since he put sights on it and had it up there with him. At 40 yards the TSS 9s actually made dimples in the steel that has taken 100s of rounds of lead and shown no sign of it.

I understand TSS is also harder and penetrates better but most guys don't try to shoot a bird through a guard rail.
There's no reason TSS may not be used by anyone. We each have our choices and reasons. Lead kills em just as dead. Please don't take anything wrong. More to consider if anyone else is reading and penetration is an issue.
To me and I've now witnessed a smaller gun pretty well impress me w TSS. It knocked birds down flat at 35-40 yards.
The idea was a smaller, lighter gun and still a dense killable pattern. That makes total sense and it def does that.  The rest is really imo just justification to ourselves why we "need it". No justification needed. If it's something someone wants to use and can afford. God bless em

[Spitten and drummen]

I was a believer is TSS already but I did have an eye opening experience while patterning. I help coach a trapshooting team and we have a 1/4" steel plate for patterning. All the kids will shoot lead 7.5s or 8s at it and they will flatten out and leave no trace of being there besides removing the grease we put on there so we can see the pattern. My dad hadn't shot his turkey gun since he put sights on it and had it up there with him. At 40 yards the TSS 9s actually made dimples in the steel that has taken 100s of rounds of lead and shown no sign of it.

I understand TSS is also harder and penetrates better but most guys don't try to shoot a bird through a guard rail.
There's no reason TSS may not be used by anyone. We each have our choices and reasons. Lead kills em just as dead. Please don't take anything wrong. More to consider if anyone else is reading and penetration is an issue.
To me and I've now witnessed a smaller gun pretty well impress me w TSS. It knocked birds down flat at 35-40 yards.
The idea was a smaller, lighter gun and still a dense killable pattern. That makes total sense and it def does that.  The rest is really imo just justification to ourselves why we "need it". No justification needed. If it's something someone wants to use and can afford. God bless em

Again , great post bowguy. The reasons you listed are the exact reasons I use it.

[Spitten and drummen]

I was a believer is TSS already but I did have an eye opening experience while patterning. I help coach a trapshooting team and we have a 1/4" steel plate for patterning. All the kids will shoot lead 7.5s or 8s at it and they will flatten out and leave no trace of being there besides removing the grease we put on there so we can see the pattern. My dad hadn't shot his turkey gun since he put sights on it and had it up there with him. At 40 yards the TSS 9s actually made dimples in the steel that has taken 100s of rounds of lead and shown no sign of it.

.



No doubt. I will never go back to a 12 gauge and lead. My little 20 with # 9 Tss will out perform any 12 gauge out there with a load other than Tss out of it.

[Bowguy]

I was a believer is TSS already but I did have an eye opening experience while patterning. I help coach a trapshooting team and we have a 1/4" steel plate for patterning. All the kids will shoot lead 7.5s or 8s at it and they will flatten out and leave no trace of being there besides removing the grease we put on there so we can see the pattern. My dad hadn't shot his turkey gun since he put sights on it and had it up there with him. At 40 yards the TSS 9s actually made dimples in the steel that has taken 100s of rounds of lead and shown no sign of it.

.
One more thing for anyone new reading. The lower sizes aren't legal everywhere. For instance in my state it's 7-1/2, NY is 8. Just a FYI so no one gets pinched. Check legalities


No doubt. I will never go back to a 12 gauge and lead. My little 20 with # 9 Tss will out perform any 12 gauge out there with a load other than Tss out of it.

[Fdept56]

I understand TSS is also harder and penetrates better but most guys don't try to shoot a bird through a guard rail.
There's no reason TSS may not be used by anyone. We each have our choices and reasons. Lead kills em just as dead. Please don't take anything wrong. More to consider if anyone else is reading and penetration is an issue.
To me and I've now witnessed a smaller gun pretty well impress me w TSS. It knocked birds down flat at 35-40 yards.
The idea was a smaller, lighter gun and still a dense killable pattern. That makes total sense and it def does that.  The rest is really imo just justification to ourselves why we "need it". No justification needed. If it's something someone wants to use and can afford. God bless em

You are 100% right. If I was still carrying a 12 I would probably be shooting lead still but I wanted to set up a 20 for some reason. I'm afraid TSS is being used in a way I wish it wasn't in bigger guns, but that rabbit has been chased down plenty of holes already. I just like the thought of being able to make my own hunting tools, I make my friction and mouth calls so I figured I might as well be in control of what does the actual killing too. I'm not saying TSS is a "must have" but I love that my 20 can outperform any 12 I've ever used.

[Greg Massey]

I've enjoyed all the comment's about the TSS and before TSS was the shell to have for the 20 gauge , it was the Federal HW 7 so that's the shell i set my 20 gauge up for ... lol .... but the problem i have is i still have several Federal HW 7 and that shell in my opinion is still one of the best for a kill under 40 yards ... But i have been buying few boxes of the Apex 20 gauge shell alone with plans of building another 20 gauge one day .... now with my 410 it's different i shoot the Federal and Apex 410 loads .....I agree with Bowguy for years I've killed a lot of my turkeys with 12 ga. lead load .... so do you have to have TSS NO.. i don't think you have to have it .. but i wouldn't go back to the 12 gauge now with what's available for the 20 gauge ...  great post guys ..   At my age i see no need to start loading TSS , but for you younger guy's i see not reason you shouldn't load the shells if that what's you want to do....

[Spitten and drummen]

I've enjoyed all the comment's about the TSS and before TSS was the shell to have for the 20 gauge , it was the Federal HW 7 so that's the shell i set my 20 gauge up for ... lol .... but the problem i have is i still have several Federal HW 7 and that shell in my opinion is still one of the best for a kill under 40 yards ... But i have been buying few boxes of the Apex 20 gauge shell alone with plans of building another 20 gauge one day .... now with my 410 it's different i shoot the Federal and Apex 410 loads .....I agree with Bowguy for years I've killed a lot of my turkeys with 12 ga. lead load .... so do you have to have TSS NO.. i don't think you have to have it .. but i wouldn't go back to the 12 gauge now with what's available for the 20 gauge ...  great post guys ..

I actually have several hvy #7's that I first started using right before Tss. Now I chamber a tss and put 2 of the heavy weights behind it for back ups. The point of impact is pretty close so Im fine with that. I havent had to use a follow up yet so I dont have any results. Just thought I would throw that out there.

[Bowguy]

I understand TSS is also harder and penetrates better but most guys don't try to shoot a bird through a guard rail.
There's no reason TSS may not be used by anyone. We each have our choices and reasons. Lead kills em just as dead. Please don't take anything wrong. More to consider if anyone else is reading and penetration is an issue.
To me and I've now witnessed a smaller gun pretty well impress me w TSS. It knocked birds down flat at 35-40 yards.
The idea was a smaller, lighter gun and still a dense killable pattern. That makes total sense and it def does that.  The rest is really imo just justification to ourselves why we "need it". No justification needed. If it's something someone wants to use and can afford. God bless em

You are 100% right. If I was still carrying a 12 I would probably be shooting lead still but I wanted to set up a 20 for some reason. I'm afraid TSS is being used in a way I wish it wasn't in bigger guns, but that rabbit has been chased down plenty of holes already. I just like the thought of being able to make my own hunting tools, I make my friction and mouth calls so I figured I might as well be in control of what does the actual killing too. I'm not saying TSS is a "must have" but I love that my 20 can outperform any 12 I've ever used.

The note you do yourself the more of yourself is involved. It's a good thing.
Take "bowhunting" nowadays as an example.
Years ago we sat behind hay bales in summer w binocs long range scouting. Did some foot work in late winter. Nearer the season perhaps a quick mid day walk to help piece it together. We'd glue or screw heads on after we practiced all summer. Sharpen them ourselves until they shaved hair. Maybe make an extra bowstring as well.
So we're finally able to connect and we take out the knife we ourselves sharpened, drag it home and personally butcher it.
Nowadays, folks call cabelas. Order a crossbow, shoot it once to sight in. Bait a treestand, camera tells you what n when. Guys show up a 1/2 hr early to shoot.
The disposable blade knife comes out to clean deer than it goes to a butcher. Most is donated anyway .
Kind of a shame. Folks don't realize how much more involved they'd feel if they tied a fly, made a call, loaded a shell.
Something really cool about that at first. First time your shell kills a turkey, your arrow kills a deer, a fish rises to your fly, I don't make calls but I guarantee that's a blast too!!
Thank God some fellas still understand. It's a bigger sense of accomplishment I wanna say at first cause after a bit we still do it and wouldn't do it another way but the amazement it worked is gone.
People don't realize (not cursing any company) no one is gonna baby a shell together like you are. I've never once had a misfire, feathers don't fall off arrows, etc.
If doing it yourself was the reason for loading I certainly understand that

[Greg Massey]

I understand TSS is also harder and penetrates better but most guys don't try to shoot a bird through a guard rail.
There's no reason TSS may not be used by anyone. We each have our choices and reasons. Lead kills em just as dead. Please don't take anything wrong. More to consider if anyone else is reading and penetration is an issue.
To me and I've now witnessed a smaller gun pretty well impress me w TSS. It knocked birds down flat at 35-40 yards.
The idea was a smaller, lighter gun and still a dense killable pattern. That makes total sense and it def does that.  The rest is really imo just justification to ourselves why we "need it". No justification needed. If it's something someone wants to use and can afford. God bless em

You are 100% right. If I was still carrying a 12 I would probably be shooting lead still but I wanted to set up a 20 for some reason. I'm afraid TSS is being used in a way I wish it wasn't in bigger guns, but that rabbit has been chased down plenty of holes already. I just like the thought of being able to make my own hunting tools, I make my friction and mouth calls so I figured I might as well be in control of what does the actual killing too. I'm not saying TSS is a "must have" but I love that my 20 can outperform any 12 I've ever used.

The note you do yourself the more of yourself is involved. It's a good thing.
Take "bowhunting" nowadays as an example.
Years ago we sat behind hay bales in summer w binocs long range scouting. Did some foot work in late winter. Nearer the season perhaps a quick mid day walk to help piece it together. We'd glue or screw heads on after we practiced all summer. Sharpen them ourselves until they shaved hair. Maybe make an extra bowstring as well.
So we're finally able to connect and we take out the knife we ourselves sharpened, drag it home and personally butcher it.
Nowadays, folks call cabelas. Order a crossbow, shoot it once to sight in. Bait a treestand, camera tells you what n when. Guys show up a 1/2 hr early to shoot.
The disposable blade knife comes out to clean deer than it goes to a butcher. Most is donated anyway .
Kind of a shame. Folks don't realize how much more involved they'd feel if they tied a fly, made a call, loaded a shell.
Something really cool about that at first. First time your shell kills a turkey, your arrow kills a deer, a fish rises to your fly, I don't make calls but I guarantee that's a blast too!!
Thank God some fellas still understand. It's a bigger sense of accomplishment I wanna say at first cause after a bit we still do it and wouldn't do it another way but the amazement it worked is gone.
People don't realize (not cursing any company) no one is gonna baby a shell together like you are. I've never once had a misfire, feathers don't fall off arrows, etc.
If doing it yourself was the reason for loading I certainly understand that

I agree , back in the day , if you wanted to make improvements to your equipment it was all up to you , fletching arrow's , loading shells , scouting etc .. I remember the first real hunting knife Buck 110 , that was a knife and still is fine knife .. i agree it's gotten a lot easier through the years .. as we get older we have to take advantage of some of this newer equipment .. it just makes it easier on my OLD body ... but i will have to say i like the new knives with the replaceable blades, my foodsaver etc .. i still process all my deer from start to finish ... I still process all my wild game ... and that's what the wife and i eat most of the time... Now don't get me wrong we still buy pork steaks and beef steak from the store's ... those are pretty good on the grill...

[Yoteduster]

Yes this has been a good post and I want to thank everyone one for their replys I think my ??s have been answered I think for now I'll stick with what I'm using BUT I can see the possibility that in the future that some states and some public lands will outlaw the use of lead and it's always good to research alternative options plus this post has helped my end of season boredom

[owlhoot]

With a 12ga. I personally would stick with lead. I started handloading Tss 6 or 7 years ago for a 20ga to test it out. I have not toted a 12 since. The stuff is devestating. Some people scoff at it because of the price. Thing is , you are not dove hunting with the stuff. No doubt that shooting it through a 12ga would be extremely potent. I would put my 20 loaded with it up against any 12ga. The 20 with Tss exceeds the capability of a 12 ga with lead. It retains a pile more energy , does not deform and patterns are unbelievable. A tss #9 is on par with a lead #4 . You also can get alot more number 9s in a hull than number 4s. Lead has accounted for truckloads of birds and are very effective. #9 Tss just does it better.

The hardness of the Tss is much greater than lead. It retaines energy much greater than the lead. The hardness and diameter being smaller along with the retained energy equals greater penatration. Im not a load specialist and relied on the info that was passed on to me. I have tested Tss against lead and do have first hand knowlege on the penetration. Basically I was meaning that the energy in a TSS #9 is compatable to a lead #4. We strive for great patterns along with penitration and the TSS gives those. The only reason I would stick with lead is carrying a 12. The Tss shines with smaller gauges and makes the 20 just as effective as the 12 at 12 gauge distances.

Please explain how a tss 9 is on par with a lead 4?

? How did you compare penetration between the two? Is the test report on here?

[Spitten and drummen]

Get a 1/4" piece of plywood and shoot both at 30 yards . Repeat in 10 yard increments out to 50.I dont do reports on this stuff  , i do my own personal testing. Google the hardness of tss vs lead and you will see the weight coupled with the hardness along with the smaller diameter equals greater penetration. Do some research , dont take my word for it.

[owlhoot]

Get a 1/4" piece of plywood and shoot both at 30 yards . Repeat in 10 yard increments out to 50.I dont do reports on this stuff  , i do my own personal testing. Google the hardness of tss vs lead and you will see the weight coupled with the hardness along with the smaller diameter equals greater penetration. Do some research , dont take my word for it.

Oh been doing a lot of research, reading anyway. Have shot HW7 and lead 5 into phone books. Personal testing. Smaller diameter penetrates better, yep. Weight penetrates better, yep.
Thanks for the reply, appreciate it.

[Spitten and drummen]

No problem my friend. Wish I could give you more technical info on the topic.

[Bowguy]

Yes this has been a good post and I want to thank everyone one for their replys I think my ??s have been answered I think for now I'll stick with what I'm using BUT I can see the possibility that in the future that some states and some public lands will outlaw the use of lead and it's always good to research alternative options plus this post has helped my end of season boredom

That's something that hasn't been mentioned much. The possibility lead could be outlawed. Good thinking