Questions about this past turkey season

[GobbleNut]

Good, thorough post, Mk M.  Thanks for making the effort.  I don't hunt over decoys or under the circumstances you apparently do, but if I did, your recommendations would be very helpful.

[Aurora Wild]

I will second MkM Gobbles recommendation of the dsd upright hen and 3/4 jake combo.  Under the circumstance you described these decoys combined with some really aggressive calling with the intent of agitating the hens may have changed the outcome. Then again, maybe not...

[Sir-diealot]

So after reading and seeing you are ok with using decoys there are a few things that may have worked for you, I can also give you the non-decoy aspect.

First dominance is any everyday game in every turkeys life, hen / jake / tom. I have study this and they keys to body position, head color and a few other keys that give you a visual of what's going on. In the situation you were talking about the two gobblers were most likely brood mates (brothers) and have been together all there life one is alpha and other beta, they will work in unison to "harem" hens, one's action will be mirrored by the others as far as gobbling and strutting goes, but to identify the alpha there are a few more things to look for. (I always look to take the alpha first) Without seeing everything going on first hand it sounds like you bird to the right was the beta. Now to your hen flock, and yes the pecking order her does make a difference in how you are calling/working the flock. In any situation it is going to be tough to pull a gobbler from his harem, sometime it is a time game, after all his hens are bred is when you can go back to working him, this could easily be hours.

Hard to say but "knowing" your turkeys comes in to play, as I scout every year I am learning birds and a pair of binos becomes important. I am learning the alpha/beta/omega of the birds and taking notice of differences of the birds, and whether there are doubles or triples that are hanging together, can get tough doing this in early part of year here because we may not yet be through winter breakup, as breeding season becomes more established these identify themselves, the reason I am always scouting.

*Even on land I hunt all the time I am still learning/scouting identifying birds every season.

A "field" bird is a different game than one in the timber. Where a bird in timber is looking for the "bird (you)" and a field bird is using visual ques and expects to see the "bird (you)".

And yes scouting and knowing the land is just as important in a field hunt, knowing where birds like to enter and exit is key, I scout, scout, scout a lot from about 2 weeks before the season to seasons end. Now I generally have hunted my home ground enough that most things fall in to place year after year. I know the ground, I do hunt with a lot of friends and on there ground when I'm helping them hunting, I look for some of those common features and go from their.

So for the field bird and a no blind, no decoy hunt. Here are a few scenarios to improve you odds.

1. If you know your entry point (morning hunt) where your birds are likely to enter the field I set up within about 30 yards of the point and to my strong side (righty/birds enter to my left & lefty birds enter right) this way if I am hearing the birds coming I have a good chance of taking him as he enters the field, hen(s) will be the lead and gobbler(s) to follow.

2. If those birds are in the field, I have slipped back into the timber and have made several move to place myself in that lead hens direction, easier to call her to where she is already going. and yes you are calling to her, trying to upset the boss that you are talking over her, them toms may gobble their head off, but those are just a courtesy little chance of him leaving them.

3.You are going to need to wait them out, until that tom has bred each of his harem hens he's not coming, you may still be hearing his gobbles but there again just a courtesy. Now he has established that there was another "hen(you)" in the area and at some point may be coming back to look for you, still a game at this point because a lot can go on through the day, if where you hunt allows all day hunting and his/hers roost site is close by they will likely be back in field that evening before going back to roost. During the time in between there may be a number of other birds that you could work, when other bird are hearing "turkeys" talking you can be bring satellite birds in, and yes some may be coming in silent. Turkeys are very inquisitive and those young birds are looking to get in the game.

4. You are going to move back into the timber and work that/those birds back to you. We have done this with some success, those birds don't seem to get in a field and just stay there, I have watched them leave, come back and leave again through out a day, always seem to bee meandering around.


So much in the decoy game I will refer back to some older posts I have made, if you are willing to hunt with them and asking to learn how to hunt them "right" I will help anyone with that. This has always been some of my best attended seminars each spring.

Ok so now to the "I will use some decoys", and this is mostly how I hunt field birds. This can be with/without a blind (this choice really comes down to you, if you are by yourself, have others, kids, newbies, filming, bow hunt or just have a hard time keeping still, a blind maybe your ticket.)

So my typical setup goes like this (this is of course after all the above scouting has taken place) I still set the same way to those entry/exit points the birds are using, I still do my same calling technique but when those birds enter the field they are going to see the hen(s) or tom(s)/jake they were talking to.

I am also referring back to one of my posts on decoy use here: http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,70971.0.html

The decoys I use are DSD's yup only one I will use, hunted over others and many reason I'll stick with them. From that here we go. I do always talk about hunting decoys "right". There is a lot more to it than just sticking a decoy in the field and thinking every turkey is just going to come running to it.

DSD Jake Strutter (now I have "Gobblerized" mine/bought him for the size) and he is in my White Headed design.
Yup read here if you want more on that.   http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,85559.msg829225/topicseen.html#msg829225
was in response to another post but will give you some details.

DSD Jake 3/4 Strut (Only ever hunt with 1 jake out)

DSD Upright Hen
DSD Feeding Hen
DSD Leading Hen
DSD Submissive Hen

I use all of these at times depending on time of season and in which stage of the breeding cycle we are in. I also have this in the referred to previous post.

If you are looking for a Run & Gun pair go with the 3/4 Strut Jake and Upright Hen (can be used many ways)

If you really want some details on setting up and hunting decoys right PM me, I have saved quite a bit of info on this that I PM'd out to others. So much goes into this I cannot cover every scenario.

But I do have a set of "rules" I go by for decoys and some general do's and don'ts...

I will say my DSD's are killers when used right, I read and hear often on how decoys scare away gobblers/turkeys and won't disagree with that. That then comes down to did you use the right set.

My White Headed DSD "Jake" Gobblerized Strutter is deadly! He will pull toms from his harem of hens, just like the situation you are talking about and my DSD Upright hen drives the boss hen mad enough to pull her over.

Like I said a "field" bird is a different game, I have learned how to play it in a number of ways.


MK M GOBL

Thank you much for the reply. I completely agree with scouting, however the owners of the land seem to think that if I go in to scout I am going to "scare all the turkeys away" so I am unable to scout. I try to pay attention every day though to how they are moving when I am there and they do tend to go one of three area's.

The day I described I did not use any decoys at all though I often do, normally a feeding hen and a "Mother Hen" I have read the DSD head color post before and found it interesting, though a refresher course is much appreciated. I will endeavor to read the other tomorrow, right now I am to tired to absorb what I am reading so I will save both to desktop.

[EZ]

Gobblers with hens are something every turkey hunter has to deal with whether in the woods or in fields. As someone who doesn't use decoys (not because I'm a purist) I have found that hens are very jealous by nature. Often, aggressive calling causes those hens to lead the gobbler(s) away. What works best for me is soft calling....purring, clucking and very soft kee kees.

If that doesn't work, you always have the option to pour on the coals!!!

[Sir-diealot]

Gobblers with hens are something every turkey hunter has to deal with whether in the woods or in fields. As someone who doesn't use decoys (not because I'm a purist) I have found that hens are very jealous by nature. Often, aggressive calling causes those hens to lead the gobbler(s) away. What works best for me is soft calling....purring, clucking and very soft kee kees.

If that doesn't work, you always have the option to pour on the coals!!!

I was wondering about kee-kee's in the Spring and if they could be used to benefit or not, sounds like that is a yes?

My OP was not so much about pulling them away as it was about the behavior of the turkey though I have gotten some very good information on that as well. Thanks to you as well.

[EZ]

I was wondering about kee-kee's in the Spring and if they could be used to benefit or not, sounds like that is a yes?

OH YEAH!!