Questions about this past turkey season

[Sir-diealot]

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I had 9 hens and 2 toms come into the field in front of me on opening day they seemed to be very relaxed and feeding not really at me but going at a right angle to me. Both toms were strutting almost nonstop and gobbling sparingly. I wanted to try to get them to come to me and made some yelps but they seemed to turn away from me, eventually they turned back, this happened twice. What could I have done differently to get them to come more in my direction? No decoys be the way.

The second part of my question is 8 of the hens stayed more to the left with one tom and one tom and one hen went off to the right maybe 20 to 30 yards from the others but both toms were gobbling and strutting. Is this some kinda dominance thing? The way they came in their tail feathers wear clearly lit by the sun and they were both full grown toms by the look of the tail feathers. I was kinda thinking the one to the right was a subordinate bird? Thanks for any replies.

[falltoms]

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Could have been the wrong set up. Field turkeys can be tough. Then of course they may have come running in on a different day. On field gobblers I will set up at least 20 yards inside the woods. No decoys. Sometime I win sometimes not

[Sir-diealot]

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Could have been the wrong set up. Field turkeys can be tough. Then of course they may have come running in on a different day. On field gobblers I will set up at least 20 yards inside the woods. No decoys. Sometime I win sometimes not

They gobble to my paddle box early that morning before fly down so I shut up. My balance is still not good enough for carrying blind and all into the woods, maybe by next year though.

[GobbleNut]

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Everybody that hunts turkeys faces situations like yours,...and often pretty regularly.  Most of the time, the outcome,....that is, whether they come to you or not,...is a function of the circumstances and the "attitude" of the turkeys involved.  There are things you can do, beyond calling, that can affect that attitude to some degree,...and there are occasions where those things will determine whether you leave with a gobbler over your shoulder,...or not. 

If you are a "purist", as some here on OG are, and will rely on nothing but "sound" imitations to lure gobblers, imitating other turkey noises can sometimes work.  Besides vocalizations, turkeys make other sounds in their activities.  We regularly discuss the use of the imitation of turkeys scratching in the leaves to fool gobblers.  We have also had some discussions on the use of wing-beat imitations,...a less-used, but very effective, technique.  Learning to do an accurate reproduction of the "spit and drum" of a gobbler is not a bad idea,...just in case.  Any or all of those sounds, when used, can be the difference between success and failure in any given situation.

For the "non-purists", the use of visual aids,...decoys and other "turkey parts",... has proven to be the real "game-changer" in turkey hunting, much to the chagrin of many of those purist types.  In specific situations such as the one you describe, the obvious choice for the hunter is to have one or more decoys in view of the birds,...or otherwise have another "visual tool" on hand to let the turkeys see evidence that there is something that actually might be a real, live turkey calling to them,...and that perhaps they should wander over to take a closer look.

The bottom line is that there are/were things you can do in situations like the one your describe that can make all the difference.  Again though, in the end, a lot of it depends on the attitude of the birds you are hunting.   

[Sir-diealot]

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Everybody that hunts turkeys faces situations like yours,...and often pretty regularly.  Most of the time, the outcome,....that is, whether they come to you or not,...is a function of the circumstances and the "attitude" of the turkeys involved.  There are things you can do, beyond calling, that can affect that attitude to some degree,...and there are occasions where those things will determine whether you leave with a gobbler over your shoulder,...or not. 

If you are a "purist", as some here on OG are, and will rely on nothing but "sound" imitations to lure gobblers, imitating other turkey noises can sometimes work.  Besides vocalizations, turkeys make other sounds in their activities.  We regularly discuss the use of the imitation of turkeys scratching in the leaves to fool gobblers.  We have also had some discussions on the use of wing-beat imitations,...a less-used, but very effective, technique.  Learning to do an accurate reproduction of the "spit and drum" of a gobbler is not a bad idea,...just in case.  Any or all of those sounds, when used, can be the difference between success and failure in any given situation.

For the "non-purists", the use of visual aids,...decoys and other "turkey parts",... has proven to be the real "game-changer" in turkey hunting, much to the chagrin of many of those purist types.  In specific situations such as the one you describe, the obvious choice for the hunter is to have one or more decoys in view of the birds,...or otherwise have another "visual tool" on hand to let the turkeys see evidence that there is something that actually might be a real, live turkey calling to them,...and that perhaps they should wander over to take a closer look.

The bottom line is that there are/were things you can do in situations like the one your describe that can make all the difference.  Again though, in the end, a lot of it depends on the attitude of the birds you are hunting.   

No not a purest, just wanted to try it without decoys to see how things went. (That and I was to lazy to carry them because I was not sure of the land well that morning as with the camera which I really wish I had brought )

The only thing I did different this year is only use calls that I have gotten from members of this site, I really wanted to get one the most with the Russel Beard Paddle Call that Cut N Run had given me the most as it was a gift. I also had the Black palm slate I bought from ChainReactionGC and the Spalted Maple in green slate I got from MAC CALLS and later in the season some mouth calls I got from turkeykiller22 The only change from that was when it rained I ran my Mad Super Crystal as I did not want to take the nice calls out in the wet weather, I really wanted to get one with calls I got from here.

Years ago before my accident I bought a "Wing Thing" that I have had great success with using a fly down cackle as well as working leaves I had set in one corner of the blind. So I understand what you mean about sound, though I had not thought of using a wing beat the way I think you are describing. I also have a Mad Spit and Drum but am not sure I am using it right. Which reminds me I think I heard that for the first time ever this year but I was set up on a trail with decoys in field in front of me and I was in a chair blind and think I was blocking the turkeys entry, I had thought I heard some stuff moving behind me and then started to hear a low kinda humming but could not turn in that blind to see behind me. Very low guttural sound.

Any clue on the birds that were off to the side?

[Happy]

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Field turkeys can be tough. However I have noticed that they seldom stay in the middle of a field all day. The trick is reading the direction of travel and getting in front of them. It's always easiest to call them in a direction they want to go. I have often been able to call the bird close enough to the edge to kill him. If they stay in the middle of the field it's a really tough gig that usually involves me being planted in the dirt face first using the old army crawl to get into position. Usually when that low I can utilize slight rolls in the terrain to get into their wheelhouse and when the tom gets in a good location call him up close enough. Hens are a whole other factor. In my experience early in the breeding season they are more sociable and may be called in with the tom in tow. Peak breeding they are more likely to drag him the other way.
They only chance you have is ticking her  off enough to want to fight but it still is a low odds deal. Another option is gobbler yelps or jake yelps. Sometimes it works and lots of times it doesnt. I know you are not as mobile as some so my advise would be to watch the birds before season and pattern them. Notice entry and exit points and set up accordingly. As long as you don't spook them you should get an opportunity eventually.

[Happy]

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In answer to you question on the hens well they pick the gobbler. All he can do is look as rugged and manly as possible . Some time the metro sexual gobbler wins though.
 

[Sir-diealot]

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Thanks for the advise Happy. The way the woods is there that I have seen (I am still learning the land) is mostly thicket by the edges of the field and no real amount of hardwoods which I would prefer that I know of, I still don't know the property great but hope to learn more in about 2 weeks. Picture below is of the field I was in, but I was further down to the right of the picture, this picture was taken where I park. There are woods behind me in that picture that are quite nice, but I am not allowed there as it is not part of their property. The woods forward right is not very wide at all, driveway comes in there, I was in there last day of the season. I want to learn the woods to the left as well as behind the cabin that is there much further above. I think I will be able to do better then.

[Greg Massey]

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Hard to pull turkeys from other turkeys , especially hen's .... those 2 gobblers , were going nuts with those hens , hard to beat mother nature some days....regardless what you do....

[Sir-diealot]

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Hard to pull turkeys from other turkeys , especially hen's .... those 2 gobblers , were going nuts with those hens , hard to beat mother nature some days....regardless what you do....

That's for sure.

[TRG3]

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In my experience, a single gobbler with some hens makes for a disappointing situation if you are expecting to entice the tom to leave his harem and come to your setup, which he probably sees as a lesser situation. (The gobbler may return to your location later in the morning after the real hens have gone off to nest. In early May, it took three hour of calling/waiting to convince a 25# gobbler to finally investigate/challenge the newcomer tom, a decision that let him ride in my truck!) However, if there is a dominant gobbler with one or more subordinate toms hanging around while the main bird does his thing with the hens, there's a good chance that one or more of the subordinates will slip away to investigate what they perceive as a new opportunity to find a respective hen. The odds of success increase in enticing a subordinate tom to come your way if a jake is positioned over a hen in the breeding position. To challenge the peck order which is an important structure in the turkey world, I use the Primos gobble tube to make sure that the real birds know that an intruder tom is courting a hen in their territory. I used this technique successfully twice this past spring and many times in previous years. It has been much more successful, and fun,  than only sounding like a hen.

[Sir-diealot]

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In my experience, a single gobbler with some hens makes for a disappointing situation if you are expecting to entice the tom to leave his harem and come to your setup, which he probably sees as a lesser situation. (The gobbler may return to your location later in the morning after the real hens have gone off to nest. In early May, it took three hour of calling/waiting to convince a 25# gobbler to finally investigate/challenge the newcomer tom, a decision that let him ride in my truck!) However, if there is a dominant gobbler with one or more subordinate toms hanging around while the main bird does his thing with the hens, there's a good chance that one or more of the subordinates will slip away to investigate what they perceive as a new opportunity to find a respective hen. The odds of success increase in enticing a subordinate tom to come your way if a jake is positioned over a hen in the breeding position. To challenge the peck order which is an important structure in the turkey world, I use the Primos gobble tube to make sure that the real birds know that an intruder tom is courting a hen in their territory. I used this technique successfully twice this past spring and many times in previous years. It has been much more successful, and fun,  than only sounding like a hen.

Thanks, I do have a gobbler tube that I had gotten back around 99 when I first started hunting, but it got lost when I was no longer able to hunt for 17 years after my car accident. It is probably with the scratch box I have been trying to find for 3 years now that I am able to hunt again.

[LaLongbeard]

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First question: No doubt the turkeys heard you and looked over to were the call was made even if you didn’t see them stop turn and stare, they still knew there was not a hen calling from were you were. The Gobbler isn’t going to leave several hens to go check out an invisible hen, and the hens had no reason to either. It’s one of the reasons field turkeys are so difficult, especially without a visual aid. I personally don’t even bother with turkeys I see in fields. I may watch them in the evening to see which way they go to roost but I have no interest in trying to call one across an open field.
Second question: Several possibilities. Sometimes to nest mates(brothers) stick together after they leave the hen and original flock. They are  close to the same  size and sometimes work together to fight off other Gobblers and gather  hens. While they both strut and Gobble sometimes only one does the actual breeding. In the scenario described the one Gobbler following the single hen away from the others, sometimes a hen will break away from the flock a little ways squat and let the Gobbler breed her. They don’t usually flop down right in the middle of the flock to do there business, and in that case the Gobbler to the right would have been the dominant one. But sometimes turkeys are just being turkeys who knows what they were thinking?

[Sir-diealot]

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First question: No doubt the turkeys heard you and looked over to were the call was made even if you didn’t see them stop turn and stare, they still knew there was not a hen calling from were you were. The Gobbler isn’t going to leave several hens to go check out an invisible hen, and the hens had no reason to either. It’s one of the reasons field turkeys are so difficult, especially without a visual aid. I personally don’t even bother with turkeys I see in fields. I may watch them in the evening to see which way they go to roost but I have no interest in trying to call one across an open field.
Second question: Several possibilities. Sometimes to nest mates(brothers) stick together after they leave the hen and original flock. They are  close to the same  size and sometimes work together to fight off other Gobblers and gather  hens. While they both strut and Gobble sometimes only one does the actual breeding. In the scenario described the one Gobbler following the single hen away from the others, sometimes a hen will break away from the flock a little ways squat and let the Gobbler breed her. They don’t usually flop down right in the middle of the flock to do there business, and in that case the Gobbler to the right would have been the dominant one. But sometimes turkeys are just being turkeys who knows what they were thinking?

Thank you very much for the reply. Hoping to get into the woods a little this year if the body allows it, but that can be a really big if. Hoping so, I miss hunting on the ground and against a tree.

[MK M GOBL]

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So after reading and seeing you are ok with using decoys there are a few things that may have worked for you, I can also give you the non-decoy aspect.

First dominance is any everyday game in every turkeys life, hen / jake / tom. I have study this and they keys to body position, head color and a few other keys that give you a visual of what's going on. In the situation you were talking about the two gobblers were most likely brood mates (brothers) and have been together all there life one is alpha and other beta, they will work in unison to "harem" hens, one's action will be mirrored by the others as far as gobbling and strutting goes, but to identify the alpha there are a few more things to look for. (I always look to take the alpha first) Without seeing everything going on first hand it sounds like you bird to the right was the beta. Now to your hen flock, and yes the pecking order her does make a difference in how you are calling/working the flock. In any situation it is going to be tough to pull a gobbler from his harem, sometime it is a time game, after all his hens are bred is when you can go back to working him, this could easily be hours.

Hard to say but "knowing" your turkeys comes in to play, as I scout every year I am learning birds and a pair of binos becomes important. I am learning the alpha/beta/omega of the birds and taking notice of differences of the birds, and whether there are doubles or triples that are hanging together, can get tough doing this in early part of year here because we may not yet be through winter breakup, as breeding season becomes more established these identify themselves, the reason I am always scouting.

*Even on land I hunt all the time I am still learning/scouting identifying birds every season.

A "field" bird is a different game than one in the timber. Where a bird in timber is looking for the "bird (you)" and a field bird is using visual ques and expects to see the "bird (you)".

And yes scouting and knowing the land is just as important in a field hunt, knowing where birds like to enter and exit is key, I scout, scout, scout a lot from about 2 weeks before the season to seasons end. Now I generally have hunted my home ground enough that most things fall in to place year after year. I know the ground, I do hunt with a lot of friends and on there ground when I'm helping them hunting, I look for some of those common features and go from their.

So for the field bird and a no blind, no decoy hunt. Here are a few scenarios to improve you odds.

1. If you know your entry point (morning hunt) where your birds are likely to enter the field I set up within about 30 yards of the point and to my strong side (righty/birds enter to my left & lefty birds enter right) this way if I am hearing the birds coming I have a good chance of taking him as he enters the field, hen(s) will be the lead and gobbler(s) to follow.

2. If those birds are in the field, I have slipped back into the timber and have made several move to place myself in that lead hens direction, easier to call her to where she is already going. and yes you are calling to her, trying to upset the boss that you are talking over her, them toms may gobble their head off, but those are just a courtesy little chance of him leaving them.

3.You are going to need to wait them out, until that tom has bred each of his harem hens he's not coming, you may still be hearing his gobbles but there again just a courtesy. Now he has established that there was another "hen(you)" in the area and at some point may be coming back to look for you, still a game at this point because a lot can go on through the day, if where you hunt allows all day hunting and his/hers roost site is close by they will likely be back in field that evening before going back to roost. During the time in between there may be a number of other birds that you could work, when other bird are hearing "turkeys" talking you can be bring satellite birds in, and yes some may be coming in silent. Turkeys are very inquisitive and those young birds are looking to get in the game.

4. You are going to move back into the timber and work that/those birds back to you. We have done this with some success, those birds don't seem to get in a field and just stay there, I have watched them leave, come back and leave again through out a day, always seem to bee meandering around.


So much in the decoy game I will refer back to some older posts I have made, if you are willing to hunt with them and asking to learn how to hunt them "right" I will help anyone with that. This has always been some of my best attended seminars each spring.

Ok so now to the "I will use some decoys", and this is mostly how I hunt field birds. This can be with/without a blind (this choice really comes down to you, if you are by yourself, have others, kids, newbies, filming, bow hunt or just have a hard time keeping still, a blind maybe your ticket.)

So my typical setup goes like this (this is of course after all the above scouting has taken place) I still set the same way to those entry/exit points the birds are using, I still do my same calling technique but when those birds enter the field they are going to see the hen(s) or tom(s)/jake they were talking to.

I am also referring back to one of my posts on decoy use here: http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,70971.0.html

The decoys I use are DSD's yup only one I will use, hunted over others and many reason I'll stick with them. From that here we go. I do always talk about hunting decoys "right". There is a lot more to it than just sticking a decoy in the field and thinking every turkey is just going to come running to it.

DSD Jake Strutter (now I have "Gobblerized" mine/bought him for the size) and he is in my White Headed design.
Yup read here if you want more on that.   http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,85559.msg829225/topicseen.html#msg829225
was in response to another post but will give you some details.

DSD Jake 3/4 Strut (Only ever hunt with 1 jake out)

DSD Upright Hen
DSD Feeding Hen
DSD Leading Hen
DSD Submissive Hen

I use all of these at times depending on time of season and in which stage of the breeding cycle we are in. I also have this in the referred to previous post.

If you are looking for a Run & Gun pair go with the 3/4 Strut Jake and Upright Hen (can be used many ways)

If you really want some details on setting up and hunting decoys right PM me, I have saved quite a bit of info on this that I PM'd out to others. So much goes into this I cannot cover every scenario.

But I do have a set of "rules" I go by for decoys and some general do's and don'ts...

I will say my DSD's are killers when used right, I read and hear often on how decoys scare away gobblers/turkeys and won't disagree with that. That then comes down to did you use the right set.

My White Headed DSD "Jake" Gobblerized Strutter is deadly! He will pull toms from his harem of hens, just like the situation you are talking about and my DSD Upright hen drives the boss hen mad enough to pull her over.

Like I said a "field" bird is a different game, I have learned how to play it in a number of ways.


MK M GOBL