Beyond Silent Spring-WATCH YOUR STATE GAME DEPTS!!!

[OldSchool]

I know several different guys here locally that shoot 4-6 birds each spring, when our bag limit is 2 bearded turkeys, and these guys are some of the first to complain about the lack of birds. It makes me wonder how many people there are like this throughout the state. Not that I think their solely responsible for the problems we have here, but it can't help and it seems to me that they don't care as long as they get theirs... and mine, and yours. It's a greed filled, cutthroat world out there and sadly, it seems to have crept into turkey hunting too. Common sense and common courtesy seem to be declining as fast as our NY birds. Sorry, I'm getting off track.

Bob

[Bowguy]

I know several different guys here locally that shoot 4-6 birds each spring, when our bag limit is 2 bearded turkeys, and these guys are some of the first to complain about the lack of birds. It makes me wonder how many people there are like this throughout the state. Not that I think their solely responsible for the problems we have here, but it can't help and it seems to me that they don't care as long as they get theirs... and mine, and yours. It's a greed filled, cutthroat world out there and sadly, it seems to have crept into turkey hunting too. Common sense and common courtesy seem to be declining as fast as our NY birds. Sorry, I'm getting off track.

Bob

They're stealing from your kids Bob, report em

[Spurs]

1st page says Illinois an Iowa has more turkeys than  you can.shake a stick at!! I am from Illinois an that's funny right there....lmao....we only get one week per permit...you can get multiple permits in alot of counties....i live in McLean county ..you can get 1 for sure an your dang lucky to get two...i had better watch out this year...i might get trampled by all the turkeys..lmao

Sorry bout your luck...been up there for two years working in Livingston county....wrapped up with birds on what little bit of public there is.

Also, I worked in several other counties from there to the Mississippi River and every spot that "looked good", actually had birds. 

I never got to hunt because getting a NR tag must be like seeing a unicorn.

[arthur]

First off let me tell you about my self i live in arkansas now but used to live in upstate ny where i guided many turkey hunters to birds . the recent decline of turkey in ny is do to the animal called the fisher once they expanded there grounds turkeys and grouse took a big decline fisher were once a mountain animal that took some skill and knowledge to trap now there easy as pie .now back to point the ny dec has expanded trapping zones for them but is to late for the turkeys when u combine ice storms along with fishers and poachers thats a huge impact . If people would like to see a comeback just shoot a adult bird or none at all use some self restraint nobody forces you to shoot two birds or hunt hens in the fall.As for arkansas i wrk on a cattle ranch and see very litle birds boss says 15 yrs ago there were tons around well i trap full time and i can tell you this coyotes and bobcat and roadrunners birds have inpact on this.please dont grip cause season is short and bag limits are small just call in birds and nobody but u can force you to shoot them . I love to call birds as much as anybody else but im not griping at the dnr. p.s my wife say she will fill her tag at Krogers .sorry so long winded .

[Marc]

Habitat is the limiting factor of turkey production...  Weather can influence habitat and spring breeding as well.

I am not a fall turkey hunter, but killing a few hens in the fall probably makes little to no difference in the scheme of things.

All that being said, I am a huge fan of regulations based on science.  If the populations allow for increased hunting (either season or limits or fall season) then allow it...  If populations are suffering, reductions in seasons and limits are probably appropriate.

Regulations based on feel-good politics...  I am not such a fan of.  (We see this all too frequently with waterfowl limits and certain species).

[arthur]

just how do you figure killing hens in fall has no impact ? Just think if you have limited amount of hens you limit the amount of poults in spring were is your logic behind the theory of it dont hurt to kills females. just look at the pa deer herd or ny herd

[fallhnt]

just how do you figure killing hens in fall has no impact ? Just think if you have limited amount of hens you limit the amount of poults in spring were is your logic behind the theory of it dont hurt to kills females. just look at the pa deer herd or ny herd

Biologist say that 10%,of the estimated population, is a safe number for fall turkey harvest. Hens are part of the 10%.

[owlhoot]

Long seasons and 3-4 tom in the spring limits. Missouri does not have that and there are now many areas with hardly a bird at all. 3 sections of land that used to hold around 30 toms were down to 4-5. Very little change in the land. Cattle pasture , hay fields and crp and woodlots, some row crop from crp, around 160 acres. Know everyone that lives and/or hunts in that area, no big increase in hunters.
Coyotes have been thick there for years. Only new thing is bobcats and otters. Less turkeys now than since 1980. 12 years ago or so the quail went way down, then 5 years later the pheasant, then turkey, now deer. Been turkey hunting since 78.  Agree with the following.

Long time NY turkey hunter for over 30 years. I also was taken back by the fall season reduction. Closing a fall season down will not solve this. It may help but fall hunting does not impact the population at all. I posted here a few weeks ago about LPDV and Avain Pox and how the NY DEC are very worried about this. It is like cancer that effects birds and they grow tumers around places like their eyes and that are easy targets to predators. There is talk that it may be spread by spreading chicken manure in farming fields. I encourage everyone to google this and get informed about the real reason for the decline. It's not just NY it all over.

[Marc]

just how do you figure killing hens in fall has no impact ? Just think if you have limited amount of hens you limit the amount of poults in spring were is your logic behind the theory of it dont hurt to kills females. just look at the pa deer herd or ny herd

The single biggest limiting factor for game production is habitat...

There are actually studies that show that with limited habitat, production will improve with lower populations.  If hens are competing for resources, poult and hen survival with decrease.  With limited resources and too many breeding hens, there will be more competition for food and nesting, more fighting, and a higher percentage of mortality of nesting hens.

There is a certain degree or mortality whether or not we hunt these birds, and from all I know, hunting has very little effect on the mortality rates, unless populations are at low levels.

And, you cannot always compare one species to another...  Valley quail for instance breed in pairs, and killing only males is far more deleterious than killing equal numbers of both genders.

And although I do not deer hunt, comparing deer populations, California does not allow shooting does.  We have a very unbalanced populations with does far outnumbering bucks, and many of those does are not breeding due to this (at least according to much of what I have read)

Also, it seems that nature has a way of balancing things out.  If the hen populations start to outnumber the gobblers by too much, it is my understanding that more gobblers will be hatched.

Mother Nature has a way of working things out, and just like dealing with any other woman, things are not always as intuitive as they seem.

I stand by the fact that solid biology and science should be used in determining bag limits and season length.  With solid science behind the regulations, it is then up to use individually to make some decisions from there.

[quavers59]

Very good replys here!!!

[mikejd]

As a New york Turkey hunter myself for 25 yrs I am glad they did what they did and in my opinion should close the fall season for a while. I done even see an issue with adjusting the spring season as needed. In the fall I see to many guys out bow hunting deer take a bird because they have the turkey tag and a bird walked by. Many people dont even realize this is a big issue. We all think hey I dont see to many fall turkey hunters that wont solve anything. The by catch kill is bigger then you would expect.