Beyond Silent Spring-WATCH YOUR STATE GAME DEPTS!!!

[MDbowman]

If changes need to be made to boost turkey numbers then the thing that makes the most sense is cut back or eliminate the fall harvest. Hens are the reproductive unit and fall seasons generally allow hen harvest. Lots of hens die in fall seasons. If you want to increase your population you have to have enough egg layers, plain and simple. So you cut back on your hen harvest.  In general, Spring seasons are timed so most of the breeding is done when the season starts or early in the season. At this point gobblers are 'excess'.

[Farmboy27]

I did get plenty of replys to Silent Spring. Members here should read that article in the APRIL- Outdoor Life. If you live in one of the states where there is a wild turkey decline----your state game dept (might) take steps. They might shorten your spring season before they mess with the bag limit. ALABAMA is list at a 20% decline and MISSISSIPPI has a larger decline. Some of those states listed do not even have a FALL turkey season!
    I live in NEW YORK and this just happened to us! Last summer their was a (45 day) public input about changing the FALL TURKEY SEASON. I had no idea and found out by accident! Quickly i I wrote a 5-page hand written letter and mailed it in. All the turkey hunters that I talked to on the street also had no idea and were pissed to put it mildly. It was all done under the table! My Fall season was (SLASHED) from 6 weeks to just 2! And the bag limit was cut by 50%---from 2 Fall birds to just 1. So, by all means WATCH your own state game depts and make sure this does not happen to you as well!

What else would you have them do?  So now you can only kill one fall bird, how many do you need?  In PA we can only kill one fall bird and I never saw it as a bad thing. And a shorter season,  well if it's in the best interest of the population then so be it. Here in PA we have a 1 bird fall limit and a 2 week season (in my area).  I usually don't have any problem filling a tag. If turkey populations are dropping the first thing to do is shorten and limit the fall hunting and hen harvest. Everybody seems to want longer seasons and bigger bag limits but also a higher turkey population. You can't have your cake and eat it too!!

[darn2ten]

Dang, I wish they'd cut our limit from 4 to 3 in the spring. As far as fall, I ain't got no use for it once so ever. I don't think you should kill hens period, unless you had a serious over population problem and I don't think that's the case anywhere. A lot of counties around me had a ridiculous 6 bird fall season. Our population has been in decline for the last 7 or so years. Funny thing is some of the same ones now that are griping about not seeing or hearing birds were the same ones doing the grip and grin on Facebook with multiple hens in the fall season. Reap what you sow...

[Cut N Run]

We don't have a Fall turkey season and I don't have a problem with that, because I'm not a Fall turkey hunter. North Carolina tried an experimental "Fall" season here about 10 years ago in the 5 counties with the highest turkey populations. It was actually more like a winter season.  We got a lot (for here anyway) of snow and ice at the time, which didn't make turkey hunting much fun.  I had jakes and hens in range a few times, but I couldn't make myself shoot them.  My grandfather came up through the depression and he always taught me that it was counter-productive to kill your egg layers and your immature male turkeys.  I didn't really grasp that until I got older, but it makes perfect sense to me now. I also didn't want to spend one of the two turkey tags we get here each year on a bird that weighs half of what a grown gobbler does.  I love hunting Spring gobblers and I hope never to lose that opportunity.

It is too bad that your season has been shortened, but if it had not been trimmed, the turkey numbers would plummet from hunting pressure in the Spring, the Fall, adverse weather conditions, and natural predation. It likely wouldn't take long before you wouldn't have adequate numbers of turkeys to hunt at all.  The wildlife department sets season and bag limits based on both surveys and game that was legally tagged & reported.  So, if you know anybody who is taking game animals without tagging them, they're stealing from all of us.  The wildlife department may go under the false assumption that game populations are higher than they actually are because reported kills were lower than expected. Mix in a wet spring or a long winter to that scenario, and before you know it, there's too few turkeys to hunt.

Now, I don't know what it is like in the areas you hunt or how effective your game department is, but what I do know is that more and more people are getting into hunting turkeys and newer tactics (decoys, pop-up blinds, extended range ammunition, super tight choke tubes, etc.) encourages more people to get out after turkeys and have pretty decent success doing it.  Where I live (central North Carolina) the turkey populations have definitely increased, but not nearly as much as the human population has. Places that I thought would be farms and fields forever are now shopping centers, strip malls, and sub-divisions. Areas of public land I used to hunt anytime during the season without ever seeing another turkey hunter, are now managed by drawing for permits only.  I've put in to that draw for 5 consecutive years and my name hasn't come up yet.  How bad does that suck?  But, I understand that the turkey population couldn't support a constant assault by hunters who know the land and would have the time to pursue the flock relentlessly if it weren't for the draw system that saves them for everybody (supposedly) to get the chance to hunt.  It is a public resource on public land and it has to be managed for the good of the flock and the hunting public alike.  Our wildlife department isn't out to screw us over, they're doing what they're paid to do, manage the resource.

I hope you get the most out of your turkey season, however long it ends up being.  I also hope the local turkey flock rebounds and expands beyond your wildest dreams.  Remember, it was less than 100 years ago that wildlife laws, firearm restrictions, hunting seasons, and bag limits had to be enacted, because too many people were demanding too much of a limited resource and it was suffering severely.   We used to have a species called the passenger pigeon in North America that was hunted to extinction.  It is said that their numbers used to darken the sun and the sportsmen of the time would kill thousands of them a day.  That practice didn't get stopped soon enough and every generation since then will never know, see, or get to appreciate them.  It may not feel right that some of your hunting season is being cut temporarily, but you have to think big picture.

Jim

[snapper1982]

I participated in a Ohio small game survey.

In the comments I asked why there was no BIG GAME or deer and turkey survey. Numbers where I hunt are very low for both. Comments from many others around my area are the same.

A Wildlife biologist replied to my questions with their is a deer and turkey survey.
Funny I've never been sent or invited to one.

I think they don't want to hear what we want to say. I replied to him, State Farm insurance reported a record low for deer collisions in our state last year. I bet they are happy now.

Maybe we have better, more aware drivers? I think not.

I also referred him to your article Beyond Silent spring. As of now I've gotten no reply.

Imo, I think tags for both should be cut to 1. At least for a couple seasons here in Ohio. But that's less income for the DNR. I'd fully support shorter seasons.

there is a deer and turkey survey and i have been sent them for many years. Last years turkey survey had several questions on supporting reduced bag limits and lottery style hunts.

[tomstopper]

If populations are dropping I want seasons being shortened and bag limits being reduced.


New York waited 5 years too many to do anything about its turkey numbers just like many southern states have as well.  We need a faster more responsive approach by DNR and less selfish hunters who are focused more on the health of the resource instead of how many tags we can fill.

As a New Yorker, I agree. It seems as though the bird population in my area is starting to get better but I would be ok with our season being limited to one bird or our fall being eliminated for a couple years. IMO we as hunters can help this by also getting rid of the predators on our lands. Trapping has declined over the years and if we can boost this plus change turkey seasons based on population decreases, we can increase the turkey numbers but this is just another topic.....

[OHturkey85]

If changes need to be made to boost turkey numbers then the thing that makes the most sense is cut back or eliminate the fall harvest. Hens are the reproductive unit and fall seasons generally allow hen harvest. Lots of hens die in fall seasons. If you want to increase your population you have to have enough egg layers, plain and simple. So you cut back on your hen harvest.  In general, Spring seasons are timed so most of the breeding is done when the season starts or early in the season. At this point gobblers are 'excess'.

Well said not to take away fall seasons but some flocks need to rebound from bad spring hatches,predators and brutal winters of last year and the year before I'm all for some sacrifice for the good of the birds

[Tail Feathers]

I don't know what caused the decline, and apparently the biologists don't know for sure either.  But they did close my county to ALL turkey hunting, and about 14 others around me.  They are now Super=Stocking and say my county will be closed for at least five years to let them grow. 
Give up your fall season or drop a bird from your limit before you get to that point.

[fallhnt]

They should stop spring season and allow 1 fall gobbler.

[jed clampett]

1st page says Illinois an Iowa has more turkeys than  you can.shake a stick at!! I am from Illinois an that's funny right there....lmao....we only get one week per permit...you can get multiple permits in alot of counties....i live in McLean county ..you can get 1 for sure an your dang lucky to get two...i had better watch out this year...i might get trampled by all the turkeys..lmao

[mspaci]

The NY situation was the states knee jerk reaction to spring hunters crying about no birds. Something had to be done right. Truth is to everyone who commented about shooting hens in the fall. It makes virtually no difference to the populations. Predators, disease & mostly bad nesting seasons are the reasons there are fewer birds. Everyone got spoiled with 2 year olds running in to calls when populations were high. Now numbers have settled back down & you have to work for birds. They are there but you have to work harder. I know there are way more in ny still today then when I started hunting them in the 80`s. All the fall hunters got punished by the state.  Mike

[turkaholic]

Long time NY turkey hunter for over 30 years. I also was taken back by the fall season reduction. Closing a fall season down will not solve this. It may help but fall hunting does not impact the population at all. I posted here a few weeks ago about LPDV and Avain Pox and how the NY DEC are very worried about this. It is like cancer that effects birds and they grow tumers around places like their eyes and that are easy targets to predators. There is talk that it may be spread by spreading chicken manure in farming fields. I encourage everyone to google this and get informed about the real reason for the decline. It's not just NY it all over.

[mspaci]

Turkaholic, great post & accurate. On the bright side we are seeing alot Dutchess right now.  Mike

[TauntoHawk]

I don't know I'm happy with the shortened and reduced fall season in NY. But I'll disclaimer that I really only care about spring turkey hunting because in the  fall I'm chasing much larger big game animals with the bow and prefer to leave birds where I hunt for the spring.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[OldSchool]

Just a heads up to the other New Yorkers here. If you go to the DEC's website, you can sign up to receive "newsletters" from the Conservation Dept. You can choose the topics You'd like to be notified about and receive them by Email. I stumbled across it and signed up for several different topics a year or so ago and one of the Emails they sent me was about our declining turkey populations, possible measures to be taken and the comment period they had on it.

They asked what we'd like to see done about it and what we'd be willing to do on our end. Obviously, I'd like to see more turkeys here. I don't expect to see birds like we had during the "turkey boom" period we had here at one time, but almost anything would be better than the past several years. Last year in particular, was ridiculous.

I wasn't able to scout much this past spring, so I didn't realise just how much worse things had gotten from just the previous year. The first few days of season last spring, I didn't hear a bird. I killed one the third day and continued to hunt. When it dawned on me what was going on, I quit hunting and wished I hadn't killed the bird I did. I didn't hunt last fall either for the first time in many years, for the same reason.

In my comments to the DEC, I told them I'd stand behind them and do whatever it takes to help the birds. Be it shorter seasons, lower bag limits, or a closed season until they rebound. I have a deep respect for these big birds and I'll do anything I can to help them. If we hunters aren't willing to do our part to try and help the birds, I don't know who will. You can bet it won't be the anti gun/anti hunting crowd.

If any of you other NY'rs are interested in getting the newsletters from the DEC, you can find the application page on their website, or just google it. They have some interesting topics. I didn't sign up for every one they offered, but I get several different Emails from them each week on different outdoor related subjects.

Bob