"Turkey Reaping" Video

[Cove]

I don't believe anyone should have to apologize for having an opinion. Everyone has their preferences. I have just noticed a trend in hunting in general to where skill and effort are taking a backseat to technology and laziness. I will be the first to admit that I am a bit old fashioned in my hunting style. Heck I don't even use trail cameras for deer. Yet I shoot a compound. The point is that we hunt for a challenge and to connect with nature and our primitive background. I love quality and organic meat. However we all know that it is far cheeper to buy meat from the store. If all a person is after is a kill then I really don't buy into the assessment that that person is a hunter. I love a good conversation like this and you can throw many different variables in and every side can score a point here and there. I don't buy the idea that there is only one way to do it.But I do question the motives of many hunters that I see today

Couldn't have said it better myself. 

[THattaway]

And I apologize, but it's really difficult to stand your ground against fanning when you're hauling around these type of "tools". It goes to prove a point, that what some people may see as helpful/ useful others may view as unnecessary/ lazy or even unethical. Luckily, we don't all have to pursue our prey with the same methods. 

http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,56979.msg563571.html#msg563571

You assume.

I made some comments about fanning that were straight forward, truthful and even mentioned having a sliding ethics scale.

You, in a nut shell, said many folks were commenting based on "THE" turkey they killed last year and open ground hunting basically justifies "other tools".

Well I'll tell you. The repeated "THE" comment smacks of a guy who thinks he knows better on everything based on his kill numbers. There I said it. When I commented on having hunted open ground before and have been successful you threw me in the same boat with the "THE" crowd.

I've hunted open ground before. You don't have to hide behind a fan to be successful there either.

Hunting open ground "before" is kinda like sharing the story of THE turkey one may have killed last season.

The open ground justification is still a lame excuse. Plenty of hunters all across this great country have whacked open ground turkeys for MANY years without the aid of a fan, or a strutting decoy for that matter.

If you want to fan or be ok with someone fanning then have at it. Just don't preach to me how it's required on open ground or that I should accept it.

And to your link to my decoy paint thread angle,
Well I'll tell you fella. I've killed exactly one turkey over a gobbler decoy. I was sitting on a stool with a compound bow against a cedar tree and had a jake and hen decoy out in front at 20 yards. Arrowed one of two toms that came in to stomp it AFTER I called them into sight. Great fun. That was one killed over a tom deke out of well over 100 kills, since numbers mean something to you. I've got a young Son and a 76 year old nearly deaf Dad that I have no problem sticking a jake in front, sort of helps them have the gun pointed in the right direction. That's where those Primos walmart discounted dekes are going into the plan. If that classifies me as a hypocrite with you then I am perfectly fine living with it.

I can see where you thought you had this all figured out.   

[Cove]

Numbers mean little to nothing to me. It's experience that speaks volumes. And when one speaks of hunting open terrain "before" it has to be assumed that their experience with that type of environment is limited, otherwise it would have been stated differently. Limited experience is exactly what I was pointing toward in what I believe is the overwhelming negative opinions about fanning gobblers. I won't give my opinion on decoying antelope. . . why? because my experience is very very limited. Therefore, it just isn't worth it's salt. Unfortunately this decision isn't shared by many and they like to give an opinion regardless. I know people who decoy antelope but I also know people that have killed them in more traditional methods for many years. So sure, not using one of the before mentioned "nontraditional techniques" is possible, but I'm not going to look down on those other methods simply because I don't have the experience to formulate an unbiased opinion.

Many of these negative opinions i believe are fueled by the videos showing fanning (actually, the overpowering majority are using an entire strutting decoy) being used as a crutch and not as a tool, as I mentioned earlier. Most videos available show the technique being abused, again, my opinion. Question their ethics all you wish, but I think it's wrong to comment on the ethics of everyone who may employ the tactic.

Example: Here is a hunt of mine several years ago where "true" fanning was used, in my opinion, tastefully, ethically and obviously successfully. And mind you, this was before the whole "reaping" craze started. And might I add, I agree that "reaping" is completely disgusting, unflattering and down right disrespectful term.
https://youtu.be/3JEjXB-Tzdo

[guesswho]

I have my own opinions and have learned to more or less leave them out of most conversations.  Based on your opinion your usually labeled an elitist who thinks he is superior, or as a wannabe who shouldn't be allowed to hunt the same ground as the elitist. 

But I do have a question concerning the terms crutch and tool.  What determines if a decoy or a fan is being used as a crutch or a tool?    Just trying to make sense of some previous replies.   

[Devastator]

COVE,after watching and hearing your calling on video for a few years now,your a turkey killing pro to me!!!

[Cove]

I have my own opinions and have learned to more or less leave them out of most conversations.  Based on your opinion your usually labeled an elitist who thinks he is superior, or as a wannabe who shouldn't be allowed to hunt the same ground as the elitist. 

But I do have a question concerning the terms crutch and tool.  What determines if a decoy or a fan is being used as a crutch or a tool?    Just trying to make sense of some previous replies.   

A valid question and one which I think is the root of the whole issue. Where is the line?

For me, something is used as a tool if it is a tactic/ technique employed to complete the drill instead of make up for short comings or more specifically laziness and a lack of desire. The very last thing I ever want is for the art of turkey hunting to fade. Which is why I would be the first on a band wagon to outlaw all decoys permanently. End of story. Would it effect the way I hunt, very very minimally. I may use a fan or decoy 4/5 times in my 60 day season. I would gladly sacrifice that in order to make certain newcomers learn and aren't deprived from the ritual that is turkey hunting.

These "reaping" videos show guys ignoring woodsmanship, calling and the ritual. It's disgusting to me. They're leaning on this "crutch" to bypass the most common, necessary components of becoming successful on a turkey hunt. That being said, what they are shown doing is completely different than my visualizations when I think of/ remember fanning gobblers. I've never found a gobbler in a field and my first response be to roll out and begin crawling with a decoy. Never will be. . .

And maybe this is further illustrating what I have been attempting to explain the entire time. What I have participated in and label "fanning" compared to what I suppose is labeled "reaping" and shown at the beginning of this post is comparing apples to oranges.  But I have "fanned" a couple gobblers before, featured them on my youtube channel and think it's unfair and undeserving to be labeled as being less ethical. Also, as I discussed earlier I think it's easier for one to make those type comments when their experiences are for the most part in terrain that is not receptive to fanning.

[guesswho]

For me, something is used as a tool if it is a tactic/ technique employed to complete the drill instead of make up for short comings or more specifically laziness and a lack of desire.

Thanks for the reply.  I can understand your train of thought and reasoning, but can also see where it may sound contradictory to others.   The line in the sand between tactical and laziness is a hard one to define, at least when applying it to others. 

And I have to say that most of your video's are among the few that I can actually watch from beginning to end.   And from what I know of Mr. THattaway, I wish a video camera followed him around too.  It would make for some fine viewing and a good learning tool for many.   At least I think it would be a tool and not a crutch, I still get confused with that whole deal.   

[drenalinld]

So how much effort do you have to put into a gobbler before you fan him to make the fan a tool rather than a crutch?

[GobbleNut]

There has been some really good discussion here among well-respected turkey hunters.  Ultimately, each individual has to choose whether to employ "visual aids" (fans, decoys, etc.) in their hunting,...or not.  Our collective or individual assessments as to whether they are "tools" or "crutches" matters not as long as regulations permit their use. 

True confessions time:   For me, personally, I do not use decoys,...either hen or gobbler,....but, like Cove and others, I have "experimented" with fans and fanning techniques over the last several years, using a fan on occasion in conjunction with calling when I thought the conditions called for it,...and safety was not a factor. 

I can say without hesitation that I now never hunt without that folded gobbler tail in the side pocket of my pants.  It fits there inconspicuously and conveniently,...and it comes out in an instant if I think I need to use it. 

I have no qualms in admitting that there are times that I am not capable of calling a gobbler to me.  It happens more than I would like to admit.  In recent years, some of those gobblers have died anyway because I have learned when and where to flash that tail fan at them.  Others have put on quite a show for me at very close range, and then I let them walk (killing is not always the fitting end to a hunt).  If that leads some to declare that I need a crutch to kill some gobblers, so be it.  In my opinion, it is a tool,...to be used in conjunction with calling,...and it is a mighty effective tool.

Finally, a major part of the thrill of turkey hunting for me has always been about the "up close and personal" nature of the sport.  The judicious use of a fan, when called for, just magnifies that thrill.  When you are sitting with nothing but a turkey tail between you and a fighting-mad gobbler, spitting, drumming, and gobbling five yards away, you will understand why. 

But as always, I will end this with the admonishment of..."safety first and foremost".

[Happy]

Alright i's a little cornfused. I am not trying to ruffle feathers but using the whole crutch/tool distinction is baffling me somewhat. I can see the potential for many things to be thrown into the "tool" category. I will admit it is a fine line we tread between between fair and sporting and legal. Personally if a gobbler woops my best efforts I walk away from him and try to extract my revenge at a later day. But that's me. My "tools" never change. My aproach or style may but that's it. I could see very easily where the " I couldn't call him any closer so I used a rifle" as being an example. That's a whole other can of worms but it still leads to the root of the issue. Unfortunately I don't believe there is a hard answer to that. I know what I feel is fair and sporting. That is not going to apply to the next guy. As long as I get to hunt in the manner I enjoy I guess I really don't have any room to complain. I just worry about where we are heading in general. I will always congratulate a man's success as long as it is legal but that doesn't necessarily mean that I approve of the method. Really enjoy these conversations. They adress issues that I believe are the core of hunting. Thanks

[davisd9]

There are hunters on both sides of the argument that I have respect for. I can definitely see Cove's point of a fan being used as a tool and not as a crutch, but as David pointed out when is the distinction made? Also, when does a hunter make the distinction in when to realize that the gobbler has beat him fair and square? When does it go from the integrity of the art of turkey hunting to just making sure you get a kill?


Sent from the Strut Zone

[davisd9]

Alright i's a little cornfused. I am not trying to ruffle feathers but using the whole crutch/tool distinction is baffling me somewhat. I can see the potential for many things to be thrown into the "tool" category. I will admit it is a fine line we tread between between fair and sporting and legal. Personally if a gobbler woops my best efforts I walk away from him and try to extract my revenge at a later day. But that's me. My "tools" never change. My aproach or style may but that's it. I could see very easily where the " I couldn't call him any closer so I used a rifle" as being an example. That's a whole other can of worms but it still leads to the root of the issue. Unfortunately I don't believe there is a hard answer to that. I know what I feel is fair and sporting. That is not going to apply to the next guy. As long as I get to hunt in the manner I enjoy I guess I really don't have any room to complain. I just worry about where we are heading in general. I will always congratulate a man's success as long as it is legal but that doesn't necessarily mean that I approve of the method. Really enjoy these conversations. They adress issues that I believe are the core of hunting. Thanks

Great post!


Sent from the Strut Zone

[Cove]

When does it go from the integrity of the art of turkey hunting to just making sure you get a kill?


Sent from the Strut Zone

I wish there was a definitive answer to this one. . . .

[owlhoot]

I just don't see what all the fuss was about using decoys or strutting  decoys or tail fans  while turkey hunting? After using decoys and blinds with kids to bring the birds and close while they used .410 or 2 3/4 inch 20 gauge shotgun I enjoyed The 25 yard and in encounters and felt no ethical problems doing so.  After those hunts I have had some hunts with friends or by myself and enjoyed the strutter decoy being beat on by the gobblers .  Also when some only have  half a day or so to hunt or maybe just a few more mornings using these tools may be the only chance to get a tom. For those who get to hunt many many days of 4 week or more week season , if not near all the days I can see where they would not deem these tools necessary .
I have killed gobblers  without using these tools and  some with and felt satisfied on every hunt having hard hunts and easy ones too.
Have never fanned but I would expect a strutter decoy to be comparable success , which is some toms go away and some come in.   The anti decoy is still puzzling from this forum.

[stinkpickle]

...When does it go from the integrity of the art of turkey hunting to just making sure you get a kill?

Once that sumbeech gobbles at me!