New weights for longbeards

[Spring Creek Calls]

http://www.winchester.com/Products/shotshell-ammunition/Innovative/Longbeard-XR/Pages/default.aspx

Winchester has not changed last year's load, it added an option of a larger payload in both 3" and 3.5". Check out the above link from their website.

[the Ward]

That velocity is awful low for a lead shotshell. I wonder what length barrel they chrono'd it out of? I agree with the other posters that they should have made a 20 gauge instead of screwing around with a low velocity crippeler. How many "turkey Hunters" are going to read the 60 yard marketing hype and blaze away with 1000fps or less #6s at excessive ranges? Don't understand why they went that route instead of doing a 20 and even other gauges like the 10  would be cool!

[albrubacker]

Maybe they could also try 3 1/2" - 1 7/8 oz @ 1400fps

[decoykrvr]

Prior to the introduction of HTL loads, I was reloading 3" turkey loads of 15/8oz of nickel plated 5's and 6's which was buffered w/ a motor micah and polybead mix and even utilized a mylar wrap within the shotcup.  The load chronograhed at @ 1300-1350, produced good even patterns, kicked like a mule, and lived up to the adage, "Speed Kills".  I was concerned about the excessive chamber pressures as indicated by both extraction problems and bulging primers and when the 3" green Remington HTL shells were introduced I discontinued reloading the shells.  Before steel shot was mandated for waterfowl hunting, the advantages of lighter payload/higher velocity lead shotshells was proven in the field. Winchester is taking a monumental step backwards w/ higher payload/lower velocity turkey loads.  It will be interesting to watch the "spin" which their Marketing Department will impart to these new loadings.

[Ihuntoldschool]

With the lower velocity, I would expect them to pattern slightly tighter than the ones at 1200 fps. That may or may not be a good thing,depending on how small of a pattern you desire. Both of them will kill exceptionally well. I agree that the "new" Longbeards are pretty unnecessary since the ones they already had performed so well.

As far as 20 gauge, they are not set up with the machinery and equipment for other gauges at this time from what I understand.

On the velocity thing, by the time you get out to say 40 yards or however far you shoot, the shot will have lost alot of velocity anyway so the difference between the shell that starts at 1050 vs. the one that starts at 1200 will be negligible. The faster you start it the faster it slows. Your pattern will still fail before your penetration anyway so I look at pattern density and stick with #6. Turkey head and necks are pretty fragile despite what some people want you to believe.

[Gobble!]

Would rather see them throw some 15 g/cc #7s in the shells.

[owlhoot]

So this velocity difference is negligible? 
At 40 yards the 150 fps advantage ends up being what? With say 6 shot , down to a 65 fps advantage?

If so, what is that ? 5 yards ? 10 yards more downrange velocity?

I get a bit lost in this area.

[Rockhound]

On the velocity thing, by the time you get out to say 40 yards or however far you shoot, the shot will have lost alot of velocity anyway so the difference between the shell that starts at 1050 vs. the one that starts at 1200 will be negligible. The faster you start it the faster it slows.

This may be the stupidest dang thing I've ever read in my life...

[Rockhound]

So this velocity difference is negligible? 
At 40 yards the 150 fps advantage ends up being what? With say 6 shot , down to a 65 fps advantage?

If so, what is that ? 5 yards ? 10 yards more downrange velocity?

I get a bit lost in this area.

Don't worry about getting lost , just don't get led astray lol

[Ihuntoldschool]

Owl, thats about right.  By the time the shot reaches 40 yards 6 shot lost about half of the velocity it started out with so the difference in fps may be 65-75 at 40 and even less once you pass 40 yards. Simply physics the faster it starts the faster it loses its velocity. No gobbler will live to complain because your pellet hit him at say 600 fps instead of 665 fps just for the sake of argument. And if the heavier payload allows for more hits on target that will more than outweigh the slight decrease in velocity and I say slight because very few turkeys are shot 3 feet from the muzzle.

Most of the time slower velocity = tighter pattern. Shoot whichever patterns best for you, tighter may not necessarily be the best considering how tight the patterns are up close.

[Ihuntoldschool]

We all need to be respectful of everyone's opinion whether we agree or not. I do not think we need to resort to calling someones opinion stupid. It is true that the velocity difference being negligible at distances where turkeys are shot is my opinion. But it is a law of physics that when 2 equal size pellets are launched at the same velocity, the one that starts faster also slows faster so that as range increases the difference in velocity between the two pellets becomes smaller and smaller. It is also a fact that can be proven that #6 shot say will lose almost half of its velocity by the time it reaches 40 yards.

My point is with either shell anyone chooses they will both kill turkeys dead as long as you hit the vital area. Let us be a little more tolerant before we resort to calling one's opinion stupid just because it differs from ours.

[Ihuntoldschool]

launched at different velocities I mean, not the same

[turkey buster]

I'm as about dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to science and don't care, but doesn't the velocity of Hevi Shot advertise to be 1090? I can't find a soul on this site who says hevi 13 #7's wont stone cold one at 40 and some claim longer than that. So why won't a heavier shot like the LB #5 or 6 kill one at 40 shooting just as slow?

If my logic is wrong please correct me. I'm not overly biased as I've killed turkeys with both types of loads but I haven't seen a huge difference other than in price.

[owlhoot]

Maybe the retained at 40 yard velocity/ energy of the small diameter and denser shot?

They should all be dead at 40 given a good pattern.

Some just like them deader!