sit and wait AND Run n Gun questions

[Bigeclipse]

Hey all,
          I am not new to hunting but I am new to turkey hunting.  I turkey hunted last spring and it was a blast. Called in 3 gobblers! one busted me and the other two never came into range.  So here is my issue.  Where I hunt is my father-in-laws property.  150 acres.  It has 3 fields on it but honestly I rarely if ever see turkey in the fields (mostly always see them in the woods).  The fields are not taken care of (mowed) so the grasses, golden rod, and other vegetation can grow pretty dang high so that may be the reason they don't go out there much (low visibility for them) anyways, here is my situation.  My father-in-law is an avid deer hunter but will go out turkey hunting.  He is not really into the turkey hunting but does it to pass the time and because of this he doesn't take it ultra serious.  We don't go scouting the night before to try and find where they roost etc...and he is the type that it's his way or the highway. I may try and do some scouting this year but pretend I cannot.  Here is what I did last year:

The days he hunted with me I was stuck doing what he wanted which was he set up in the back field so I set up in the front knowing chances of seeing a turkey were slim and none.  I waited till light to listen if I could hear any calls what so ever (hen or gobbles). I tried some yelps on my slate to no avail.  so after about an hour, I decided to run and gun which I had never done before but read lots about.  This worked very well.  While walking through the woods I would try hen calls here or there and bam...suddenly got a gobble. So I scrambled to set-up and this is where I blew it...he saw me moving at about 30 yards trying to get sighted for a shot and took off running. Anyways, this is exactly what I did the rest of the season.  I would set up on the field where he dropped me off with his quad, wait an hour or so and then run and gun through the woods.

Sorry for the long story but I was wondering if anyone else does this (sit and then run n gun)?  If so, how long do you wait in an area that you are not hearing gobbles/hens (I know some Toms will not gobble) before moving on?  If you hear a gobble, how long will you attempt to call that turkey in before calling it quits and trying to move around him from a different direction?  Last year I had a Tom gobbling at my calls for almost an hour (I was up a pretty steep hill though and couldn't see him but every so often I would yelp and he would gobble back), the gobbles never sounded like they were getting closer so I figured he was hung up so I tried to get around him but he never made another gobble.  I am looking forward to this year but trying to step up my game.  I may try and do some scouting myself but again...even if I find some roosted toms, it will all depend on what my father-in-law decides he wants to do, unless of course he doesn't go out. 

[turkey harvester]

If I know turkeys are in the area then I'll hand around for a bit. If I hear no gobble then I move on to a different location. If I dont hear anything at first light gobble, I'll give it a little time, not much for me, then I'm off on a hike. If I have a bird gobbling I'll let him tell me what he wants to hear. If he gobbles at my calls I'll hush up and let him look for me. Need to take terrain in consideration when calling, they like to be able to see. Every bird is different, some like loud, aggressive calling and come running in like a mad man, and some will gobble and walk the other way when you call. Gotta be able to figure out wheres he's going to strut for the ladies. Need to look and listen if they quit gobbling and try to listen for a spit and a drum. They dont always gobble when coming in. Persistance pays off and every time you go out you'll learn something different. There are lots of good folks on here that can give you some good pointers too. I'm no expet by any means but normally have fairly good success. Good luck this spring and keep after em. Jeff

[dirt road ninja]

Disc up them fields a few weeks before the season and I bet you will start seeing birds in them. As far as when to move or stay - I like to move if I have little to no confidence in an area, but will grind it out all day if I know one is around. Time, screw ups, and the turkeys will teach you what to do and when, but if you want a good jump start, pick up a copy of Col. Tom Kelly's A Fork In The Road. My best advice to you would be when you think your moving around slow enough, go SLOWER!!!

[Bigeclipse]

Disc up them fields a few weeks before the season and I bet you will start seeing birds in them. As far as when to move or stay - I like to move if I have little to no confidence in an area, but will grind it out all day if I know one is around. Time, screw ups, and the turkeys will teach you what to do and when, but if you want a good jump start, pick up a copy of Col. Tom Kelly's A Fork In The Road. My best advice to you would be when you think your moving around slow enough, go SLOWER!!!

These fields aren't exactly like nice farm fields, they have 3-6 foot high grasses, goldenrod, other vegetation so with the exception of the 4 wheeler path going through them even I have a hard time seeing over them.  I have been scouting and deer hunting this 150 acres for the past 4 years and have seen only one turkey (hen) once in the smallest (2-3 acres) of the 3 fields,  the other 2 fields are about 5 and 12 acres.  I have seen TONS of turkeys in the woods though. A decent chunk of the woods is not dense woods since it has been logged before so I think that's why the turkeys hang there.  In fact this past deer season I saw 4 toms and 3 jakes cruising together one day and about a flock of 20+ turkeys another day (couldn't tell if all were hens or not).

[dirt road ninja]

If ya cant disc or cut them down, it will be years until they become good turkey habitat. It may be worth the hassle to cut them down or disc them every other year. The new growth is a lot higher in protein and a lot more palatable to the deer. The turkeys will feel safer in the open while they forage for new sprouts, seeds and bugs. All in all habitat improvement is the one thing that can really help out your birds long term. In turn it will provide you with more opportunities to kill turkeys and your F-I-L to kill more deer. You wouldn't have to replant them, mother nature will provide ample natural browse, but you could always throw seed out if you desired. The Mississippi department of Wildlife and Fisheries website has lots of information on this subject if your interest. Try it in one of your small fields, it doesn't have to look like a farm, just knock it down or turn it up some.

[Bigeclipse]

If ya cant disc or cut them down, it will be years until they become good turkey habitat. It may be worth the hassle to cut them down or disc them every other year. The new growth is a lot higher in protein and a lot more palatable to the deer. The turkeys will feel safer in the open while they forage for new sprouts, seeds and bugs. All in all habitat improvement is the one thing that can really help out your birds long term. In turn it will provide you with more opportunities to kill turkeys and your F-I-L to kill more deer. You wouldn't have to replant them, mother nature will provide ample natural browse, but you could always throw seed out if you desired. The Mississippi department of Wildlife and Fisheries website has lots of information on this subject if your interest. Try it in one of your small fields, it doesn't have to look like a farm, just knock it down or turn it up some.

It's unfortunately my father in laws land and he has made the decision to not brush hog it

[guesswho]

I'm with the others.  I'd do something with the fields, even if was just mow them down and or burn them. 

I don't just sit, and I don't run and gun.  Especially on 150 acres.  Wouldn't take but a few minutes and you could have that boggered up for the day.  I'd do more Bobcat'n aka slip-assin.  Basically just slow and steady then sit a while if you didn't strike a bird.  If you could burn or mow the fields they would be a great place to slip around checking, especially on drizzly days.   

[shaman]

On 150 acres, there is not much room for runnin and gunnin.   I have 200, and I can usually be to the back of the property in 15 minutes or so.

I second the suggestions about mowing and discing.  Some of the wildest times I've had were sitting at the edge of freshly plowed fields. The turkeys love to come out and eat worms and such. I've got some plots that I plan on doing just that-- strip disk the fields before season and then throw down some ladino clover seed and some cover wheat.

As to your tactics, I would back up a bit.  Find where they are roosting, and then find out where they are feeding.  Sit  down somewhere on the line between the two  and wait.   If and when you do move, go to where they feed in the mornings  and set up there.  On 150 acres you can probably find a dozen spots that will make good set-ups.   Sneak from one to the next to the next .

Remember that your biggest problem in all this is disturbing the turkeys.  Guys who run and gun on public land have vast territories in which to hunt.  150 acres is relatively small.  On my 200 acres, I try to see and not be seen-- hear and not be heard.   I don't just wait in ambush, but I do try to limit my calling and movement to what's necessary. 

[Bigeclipse]

On 150 acres, there is not much room for runnin and gunnin.   I have 200, and I can usually be to the back of the property in 15 minutes or so.

I second the suggestions about mowing and discing.  Some of the wildest times I've had were sitting at the edge of freshly plowed fields. The turkeys love to come out and eat worms and such. I've got some plots that I plan on doing just that-- strip disk the fields before season and then throw down some ladino clover seed and some cover wheat.

As to your tactics, I would back up a bit.  Find where they are roosting, and then find out where they are feeding.  Sit  down somewhere on the line between the two  and wait.   If and when you do move, go to where they feed in the mornings  and set up there.  On 150 acres you can probably find a dozen spots that will make good set-ups.   Sneak from one to the next to the next .

Remember that your biggest problem in all this is disturbing the turkeys.  Guys who run and gun on public land have vast territories in which to hunt.  150 acres is relatively small.  On my 200 acres, I try to see and not be seen-- hear and not be heard.   I don't just wait in ambush, but I do try to limit my calling and movement to what's necessary.

well I just don't think that works here. let me explain... My father-in-law bought these 150 acres 4 years ago.  For the first 3 years he actually did have the fields brush hogged.  It didn't seem to make a difference when it came to deer hunting so this year wanted to build a permanent box blind on the bigger back field (the one that is maybe 8 acres big).  It took us literally all summer (it's crazy...15 high...10 ft long by 8ft wide and can easily seat 3 office chairs. In my opinion WAY unnecessary but it is comfortable on those crazy hold rainy days for deer hunting. Anyways, this year because of the money for this project, he skipped having the fields brush hogged and bam...more deer in the fields than the past 3 years so in his mind brush hogging made it worse and he will no longer let it happen so I cant even offer to pay to have it done. He simply does NOT want it mowed.  Anyways, We hunted those fields last spring for turkey with ZERO turkeys in the fields. I hunted every weekend and a few days during each week. not one turkey in the fields. I think what is happening is there are some cut corn fields neighboring our Neighbors properties...so the corn fields don't actually touch our property and that is where the turkeys head. And any turkeys that don't go there stick to our open woods.  It is kind of hard to describe but it appears our 150 acres are the only woods that have ever been logged so are definitely more open than the neighboring woods.  The neighboring woods have very dense under brush and such and I rarely see turkeys over there but in our woods I see quite a few.  Actually, there hasn't been one day this past year of deer season I didn't see at least one turkey.

[Bigeclipse]

far away pic

[Bigeclipse]

closer pic

[Bigeclipse]

the only fields I have ever seen turkey in and it was twice was field #1 (turkey Tom during deer season October 5th last year) and field #4 which had a hen during spring turkey this past year but no other turkeys.  What I did last year was walk VERY slow during the day from one field to the other except field 1 since that's where my father-in-law sat all day.  He saw nothing, while I saw quite a few birds. Called 3 in through out the spring turkey season. one busted me and the other 2 wouldn't come in closer than 50 yards or so.

[davisd9]

Well if you cannot do anything about the fields and you want to turkey hunt then you should possibly look for some where else to hunt.  My opinion is screw the deer and make the turkey habitat but I am not your father in law.  One thing to note is, good turkey habitat is good deer habitat, but not the other way around.  Good luck.

[silvestris]

The cheapest and most beneficial thing you can do is rotational mowing.  First year, bush hog the fields completely.  The next year you bushhog 2/3 of each field.  The third year you bus hog 1/3.  What you want to accomplish ia diversity and edge.  The oldest 1/3 growth provides some small woody vegetation that is not too thick for turkey but which provides good browse for deer.  The newest mowing should be fertilized and, if necessary, limed.  What you want in this third is to accomplish strutting areas in the hunting season and grasshopper/small seed production for the poults.  The last third is an in between for diversity.  After the initial complete bush hogging/dissing/ bulldozing, you only have to manage 1/3 of the fields each year to obtain attractive diversity.  Just be sure when laying out your thirds that the game can directly access any of the thirds directly from the woods.

Oh, and I would do this mowing about a month before each season.  Turkeys don't like to get the hems of their dresses wet by the early morning dew, yet that time period allows enough time fro growth to attract the grasshoppers.  The poults may get more seeds and grubs from the latter two successions.

This is a win-win for you and your father-in-law.

[shaman]

There's a difference between mowing/bush hogging and strip disking and plowing.  If all you do is cut down the grass, there may or may not be anything there for the deer and turkey to eat.  It sounds like the turkeys are leaving your place because the buffet is over on the other properties. Tall grass is also a turn-off to turkeys.  They like to see as far as possible.   It's too easy for predators to sneak up on them in tall grass.  I've been known to go out and mow with my riding mower.

I suggest the best bang for the buck (so to speak) is to strip disk or plow and harrow, and then plant clover for them to feed on-- 5lbs to the acre hand scattered.  All my gobs have clover in their craws when I shoot them.  I wouldn't do big plots either.  Just a few rows in a field. A quarter acre  here and there would do you. An alternative would be to get a big tarp.  Stake it out in a spot.  Let the sun hit it for a couple weeks and kill off everything and then hand-scatter some clover on the dirt. 

I'm sending you a link to some habitat How-To's on the KY Wildlife website.

http://fw.ky.gov/Wildlife/Pages/Habitat-How-To%27s.aspx

A lot of them were written by the biologist that is assigned to our area here in Bracken County KY.  He came out and did an assessment of our place for free and made suggestions.  I was on a small budget and surprisingly the low-cost and no-cost solutions have been the best for the deer and turkeys.  All of them are on the link.  The best ones so far for me have been edge-feathering and strip discing .  Contact your local wildlife biologist.  He can probably point you in the right direction. Your goal should be keeping the turkeys and deer that bed/roost on your property from skedaddling to the neighbors. 


Funny: Silvestris, you and I are seeing the same thing here. You posted as I was writing my response. BTW: are you the same Silvestris that was over on T&TH?  If so, Howdy.