The Time is Now!

[BowBendr]

Good post by all, and I agree. However, the problem will be harder to fix than most would imagine.
It's kind of like the alcoholic uncle or crackhead cousin you only see at christmas. Most people won't confront them in fear of "creating a scene and ruining the holiday".......

Example: You and a few buddies are sitting around the campfire the night before opening day of turkey season. One buddy says, "boy, I can't wait for that 'ol tom to hit that field in the morning...his arse hangs up at 60 yds on me this year, I got some medicine for him"........

Are you going to be the one to stand up to the crowd and potentially ruin everyone's good time ? Will you stick your head in the sand and hope he doesn't have the chance to even try it ? Or will you take a stand ?

I venture to say most won't, because peer pressure affects a lot of folks, be they 15 or 55 years old. It can't be left to national celebs to do it, because they too have mostly embraced the long range ventures too, they have a limited amount of time to get tv shows produced and it has to get done or they lose the sponsorship for the show. I won't depend on the NWTF because they run the shotshell ads during their airing times....but I can honestly say I will....will you ??

[Bigspurs68]

The sad part of all of this is, it's hard to instill ethics, common sense, pride, respect, moral standards and class into people who don't desire to have those qualities. So much more can be said but, I'm tired and may write nonsense if I continue.

[Longshanks]

Good post by all, and I agree. However, the problem will be harder to fix than most would imagine.
It's kind of like the alcoholic uncle or crackhead cousin you only see at christmas. Most people won't confront them in fear of "creating a scene and ruining the holiday".......

Example: You and a few buddies are sitting around the campfire the night before opening day of turkey season. One buddy says, "boy, I can't wait for that 'ol tom to hit that field in the morning...his arse hangs up at 60 yds on me this year, I got some medicine for him"........

Are you going to be the one to stand up to the crowd and potentially ruin everyone's good time ? Will you stick your head in the sand and hope he doesn't have the chance to even try it ? Or will you take a stand ?

I venture to say most won't, because peer pressure affects a lot of folks, be they 15 or 55 years old. It can't be left to national celebs to do it, because they too have mostly embraced the long range ventures too, they have a limited amount of time to get tv shows produced and it has to get done or they lose the sponsorship for the show. I won't depend on the NWTF because they run the shotshell ads during their airing times....but I can honestly say I will....will you ??

Well if we are going to be afraid to say anything, unwilling to ask for support in the hunting community, and not ask the most influential organization (NWTF) for help then absolutely nothing will be done. That would be an apathetic stance to take and nothing will change. Michael Waddell one of the most influential hunting personalities with respect to children has already run a weekly spot for one of his shows that he would "never shoot a turkey past 40yds". Getting support for this issue is not such a reach if you you are passionate about preserving the Wild Turkey. I sure would hate to see folks take an apathetic position on this and if that's the case then complaining through a website is just rhetoric and posturing.
    In the past I have talked with a number of hunters that took shots past 40yds and lost the turkey. Trust me, after they do this they aren't having a good time. It's the lowest of low feeling in the turkey woods. After talking to them about yardage they go out harvest the next turkey no problem. They become a 40 yarder for life. I've taught allot of kids to hunt and guided folks who were absolutely willing to learn. The discussion is a positive one and what you are talking to them about is being more effective and harvesting a higher percentage of turkeys they pull the trigger on. People will listen if you speak to them in a helpful way and give them strategies that work but if you are going to bash them and insult them it will not work. Taking a proactive stance on this is the only way to educate folks and make a change.

[Dtrkyman]

So by this logic I should say all of us should kill out birds at under 10 yards like i do when bowhunting?

I certainly agree with keeping shots within our effective range,however it is a drop in the bucket as far as population control is concerned.  Nesting conditions, predators, too many available tags and longer seasons have contributed to the decline more than anything. 

[Longshanks]

So by this logic I should say all of us should kill out birds at under 10 yards like i do when bowhunting?

I certainly agree with keeping shots within our effective range,however it is a drop in the bucket as far as population control is concerned.  Nesting conditions, predators, too many available tags and longer seasons have contributed to the decline more than anything.

If I'm not mistaken what we are trying to deter is long range shooting. Long range shooting would be over 40-45 yds. The talk and practice of shooting 50,60,70 yards is detrimental to our sport and it's becoming more popular with the marketing and improvement in shells. If the harvest of gobblers is a drop in the bucket then that would be contrary to what we see in the numerous states we hunt. What we see is large groups of hens anywhere from 30-80 in number and groups of mature gobblers 2-4 and 6-8 at the most. We are seeing an extreme difference in numbers of hens compared to gobblers which can only be attributed to harvest. Nesting and predators may be an issue where overall numbers of turkeys are down but what we are seeing is a shortage of gobblers. We are the only predator targeting the male side of the species. Number of tags is an issue in many states but there allot of states such as MS that go on the honor system (3 birds) no accountability..Feeding and shooting over feed has attributed to decline in numbers in many areas as well. Addressing the issues with respect to laws, long seasons, controlling predators and hunting practices is essential. Being the turkey gun area of this website, that's why we are addressing the gun/shell/ shooting issues first and foremost.

[Longshanks]

I have said all I can say. I have numerous avenues that I am going to pursue with respect to the preservation of the Wild Turkey and Turkey Hunting, the sport that means so much to my friends and family. I hope others will pursue this as well and not take an apathetic stance to the issues at hand. Clark, thank you for the motivation and it really made me take a look in the mirror. As much as turkey hunting has meant to me, I need to be more proactive.

[allaboutshooting]

I have said all I can say. I have numerous avenues that I am going to pursue with respect to the preservation of the Wild Turkey and Turkey Hunting, the sport that means so much to my friends and family. I hope others will pursue this as well and not take an apathetic stance to the issues at hand. Clark, thank you for the motivation and it really made me take a look in the mirror. As much as turkey hunting has meant to me, I need to be more proactive.

You've said it well. We all need to "look in the mirror" and think about what we as individuals can do in our part of the world and in our areas of influence.

No one of us can do it all but all of us can do something.

Turkey hunting means a lot to me as well. I've made some of my best friends due to a mutual interest in hunting those birds.

Thanks,
Clark

[BrowningGuy88]

If any have noticed I haven't posted this spring. We started a new company and it stopped life for a few months.  I only got to hunt twice this spring.

I came home for the last weekend of the Alabama season so I could get out and take a couple kids hunting.  The kid I was taking was hunting his second year and was part of our 3 days 3 hunters and 9 turkey weekend last season. In the off season he had seen me shoot hundreds of dollars of shells at targets out to 60 plus yards with my 935 testing chokes and loads. We both knew what that gun will do...

First morning in the woods we heard a trio and a single gobbling and went to the single. After a hour or so he strutted in and we watched him for 40 minutes before the boy shot him at 18 steps with my 935 and 517T blends.

Second morning we went to the trio and worked them til 1 that afternoon. We had worked them from flydown into feeding time and found ourselves in the creek swamp in a pretty open run of the creek. I had to leave the woods at 2 to go to dinner with tge family and head back to work. At 1:30 the 3 gobblers strutted into view at 62 yards by rangefinder. They never broke 55 yards.  At 1:45 I picked up my Nikon dslr and took a few photos, gave a couple of alert putts and watched the run off at 1:55.

You would have thought I had slapped the kid. He couldn't believe I hadn't shot. He watched me put 30 pellets in turkey head targets at 60 plus on several occasions. So I called the wife and told her I would be a little late. Sat him where I was sitting and walked to where the gobblers were and proceeded to walk back to him breaking off bushes and limbs that were between me and the turkeys. When I got back to him I handed him an arm full of twigs and brush.

I left my tags unfilled for the first time in 12 years. Could I have killed the turkey? Possibly. But I could not guarantee it.

I watched patterns be blown off target and felt myself flinch or jerk the trigger when shooting targets in the off season way too often to believe I could pull the shot off. On my last day at the range I promised myself 45 yards was my max - no excuses! I was tested and passed.

Bottom line is I am shooting the baddest rig I have ever had and will shoot no farther with the 935 and Nitros than I will with my 1300 and winchester lead. I know without a doubt that 45 and under no turkey stands a chance with either rig on any day if I hold the bead on him.

Next year I plan to be shooting a 10 gauge Browning Gold Lite and will cap it at 45 as well.

I hope that morning taught the boy and I both something.

[allaboutshooting]

I hope that morning taught the boy and I both something.

Your demonstration to him that it's more about the hunt than the kill said more than words every could.

Thanks,
Clark

[Swampchickin234]

Best post/read/truth I have read on this forum. Mr Clark, I have no idea who you are, and you have no idea who I am but I can tell you and every other one of you on this topic that I respect you.  Hunting and fishing has turned into polished off bull crap.  I am not trying to sound like the guy who knows everything . many if yiu have probably kikled more birds than i have seen. however, turkey hunting is something that i truely appreciate. I have had lots of success, and even more failure. but to me that is what is so great about this wonderful sport. If you're gun ain't a 60 yard turkey killer, then you're considered to be inferior.  If you're scope doesn't have Bdc reticle and shoot great at 427 yards, then you need a new gun.  An old school open faced Abu Garcia reel is simply a thing of the past because there aren't enough bearings to make it "smooth".   Apparently you can't kill ducks unless you have a pattern master choke tube, and if you shoot speed balls and hevi metal then you can kill cleanly at 65 yards.  Humbly I ask, how?  Why?   How has all of this changed what we love so much   It makes me sad to think of the future. There are no ethics anymore. This has definitely been a wake up call to me. It hit home if y'all know what I mean.  I wouldn't even want to think of shooting a bird at 60 yards. It's not a ding dang Xbox game.  My favorite 2 things in the world are huntin mallard ducks in flooded green timber and listening to that almost haunting sound of that wise ol long beard light it up down the river.  Why would we as a Peaple want to change what has worked perfectly fine for years ad years?   I believe it all goes back to ethics.  They just don't make em anymore.  In no way am I trying to be arrogant in any way.  All if this just struck home and it fires me up when Peaple talk of how far they can shoot something.  Also, yes.  I shoot htl.  Y'all inspired me and made me literally obsessed with a 20 gauge turkey gun.  I love federal hw 7 and I will continue to shoot hevi 13 6s in a 12 gauge because at20-40 yards te results are devastating    Sure. Me and dang near everybody else on here can kill a bird way past 40 but I ask the question to myself as much as anyone after thinking about all this, why?  I will end my rant for the night but I would sincerely like to take my hat off and shake the hands of some true good Peaple.  Thank you all for making me stop and think. Hats off, and god bless brothers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[allaboutshooting]

I have had lots of success, and even more failure. but to me that is what is so great about this wonderful sport.

Thank you. Very well said. That truly is what's so great about this sport. It's knowing that every time we go to the fields and woods we must do the best that we can, use our senses and that we may walk away without ever firing a shot. The hours that we spend afield are truly what it's all about.

Thanks,
Clark

[Longshanks]

If any have noticed I haven't posted this spring. We started a new company and it stopped life for a few months.  I only got to hunt twice this spring.

I came home for the last weekend of the Alabama season so I could get out and take a couple kids hunting.  The kid I was taking was hunting his second year and was part of our 3 days 3 hunters and 9 turkey weekend last season. In the off season he had seen me shoot hundreds of dollars of shells at targets out to 60 plus yards with my 935 testing chokes and loads. We both knew what that gun will do...

First morning in the woods we heard a trio and a single gobbling and went to the single. After a hour or so he strutted in and we watched him for 40 minutes before the boy shot him at 18 steps with my 935 and 517T blends.

Second morning we went to the trio and worked them til 1 that afternoon. We had worked them from flydown into feeding time and found ourselves in the creek swamp in a pretty open run of the creek. I had to leave the woods at 2 to go to dinner with tge family and head back to work. At 1:30 the 3 gobblers strutted into view at 62 yards by rangefinder. They never broke 55 yards.  At 1:45 I picked up my Nikon dslr and took a few photos, gave a couple of alert putts and watched the run off at 1:55.

You would have thought I had slapped the kid. He couldn't believe I hadn't shot. He watched me put 30 pellets in turkey head targets at 60 plus on several occasions. So I called the wife and told her I would be a little late. Sat him where I was sitting and walked to where the gobblers were and proceeded to walk back to him breaking off bushes and limbs that were between me and the turkeys. When I got back to him I handed him an arm full of twigs and brush.

I left my tags unfilled for the first time in 12 years. Could I have killed the turkey? Possibly. But I could not guarantee it.

I watched patterns be blown off target and felt myself flinch or jerk the trigger when shooting targets in the off season way too often to believe I could pull the shot off. On my last day at the range I promised myself 45 yards was my max - no excuses! I was tested and passed.

Bottom line is I am shooting the baddest rig I have ever had and will shoot no farther with the 935 and Nitros than I will with my 1300 and winchester lead. I know without a doubt that 45 and under no turkey stands a chance with either rig on any day if I hold the bead on him.

Next year I plan to be shooting a 10 gauge Browning Gold Lite and will cap it at 45 as well.

I hope that morning taught the boy and I both something.

Nice to see a turkey hunter with discipline. Well done. I'm grateful to those who taught me how to hunt. "Leave things better than you found them and don't take more than you need" was what an old turkey hunter taught me years ago. He understood game management, protecting and growing a resource and ethically harvesting game. Taking a high risk of wounding a turkey is nothing more than greed and a lack of respect for the game.

[BowBendr]

The sad part of all of this is, it's hard to instill ethics, common sense, pride, respect, moral standards and class into people who don't desire to have those qualities.

I have went back and read this thread 2 or 3 times, and this post I quoted above makes a lot of sense.

I am really starting to become somewhat confused...maybe somewhat mad, because Bigspurs68 is correct.
We have been advocating 40 yds here on OG for some time now, but just today alone, I can't tell you how many post i've read of shots on gobblers over 50 yds, especially with the long beard shells.....and I don't see a soul lifting a finger to stop them......and if you do, their response is, "I see this forum has your type here too".

I made the comment in my earlier post that stopping the "air ball" shots was not going to be an easy undertaking, and i'm being sadly proven correct. We can't even get people to post in the correct section on the forum. Turkey call questions in the gun section, gun questions in the pattern pic section...it's a mess, etc.. My whole point is: How do you get the message across when the people coming onto this board don't even remotely take the time to simply read the rules ??

We could have 1 full time person on here doing nothing but moving threads into the correct section and calling people down on everything that's wrong, and they would be worked to death.....but I don't believe any of us want to spend our time on a forum as fine as this one is, constantly being patrolled by the "web police"....

Bigspurs is exactly right. You can't instill these values we hope to promote into certain people. Some folks are just plain out idiots, and if they don't get it, they don't get it....and sitting down today to read just furthered what I already knew in my head all along....you can lead a horse to water, but you can NOT make them drink.....

Sorry for my rant, but I have lost all toleration for folks that just don't get it, it's sad to say, but i've lost a lot of faith in a certain area of man-kind....some folks is just dumb.....if you can't read the rules...maybe this isn't the place for you.........

Thanks for listening
-Scott

[Bigspurs68]

 Just as a added note... It can be equally as unethical to let a bird get too close. Shooting a bobbing head with what is essentially a slug, can be a tricky situation. It's not always kill or miss at close range either. My worse turkey chase started as a extreme close range shot in big hills. I caught up to him but my sloppy aiming almost caused a nightmare for me. Just as a matter of fact, I have shot a large number of turkeys and when a person does anything hundreds of times, sooner or later, something bad will happen. When it does, we must do a couple things. First and foremost, finish what we started for the animas sake and then, if we truly care, we must check ourselves. Sit down, and ask yourself what caused the situation. Sometimes it is something unforeseen that we couldn't change. More often, it is our own poor judgement. In this case, we must be harder on ourselves than any others could be. When any season ends, deer, turkey, trapping...whatever..I want to reflect on those hunts and have no regrets about what I have done.
  I do my best to teach my children in my own hard way. They have done well. It makes me proud. They still have far to go. So do I.
   

[BowBendr]

.....if we truly care, we must check ourselves. Sit down, and ask yourself what caused the situation. Sometimes it is something unforeseen that we couldn't change. More often, it is our own poor judgement. In this case, we must be harder on ourselves than any others could be. When any season ends, deer, turkey, trapping...whatever..I want to reflect on those hunts and have no regrets about what I have done.
  I do my best to teach my children in my own hard way. They have done well. It makes me proud. They still have far to go. So do I.

Very well stated Sir. I applaud your attitude and ethics.