The Time is Now!

[Fourcooks]

Agree!!!!

[the Ward]

Good posts Guys! I agree with ya Longshanks, I've commented many times on the problems with the hunting "industry."  I can see a time in the not too distant future where most all hunting is going to be "pay to play." Good job Tomstopper on teaching your nephew an important lesson. He sure isn't going to get it from t.v! Just watched a show where they were turkey hunting the other day and they took a shot at what they said was 40 yards, it sure looked like 60 to me. The birds were over a rise in a field with pretty much only there heads showing and after the shot it looked like both the birds flew off and the camera cut back to the hunters congratulating themselves then cut away again showing them holding a gobbler. None of these shows ever talk about traditions or ethics, they are just thinly disguised info-mercials hawking the latest and greatest gadgets guaranteed to make you successful. I've got nothing against new stuff, I love my new guns and clothes that keep me warm and dry, but they are teaching the wrong lesson to the new/inexperienced hunters that watch. O.k, I'm off my soapbox and i'll  now take my med's, lol!!

[Old Gobbler]

I was going to write something long winded about hunters being the first conservationists etc... And how like waterfowl populations the overall harvest was controlled by restrictions on weaponry and bag limits , but you know what I'll go straight to the point here ....

I predicted the underground subculture of extreme long range turkey " pot shot " shooting some years ago , and took measures to get a lid on it -- I predicted this by monitoring other bow hunting and waterfowling forums and observed  as people with little real world hunting experience , lots of money , and very little common sense bullied and ran off other experienced hunters /forum members some with decades of successful hunting under their belt , as they coined the phases " it's legal so it's ethical " " I know what my gun/bow can do " and so on .....  The real world reality is that many people on the internet all pass themselves off as expert and they lie ! . Just how women and men on dating sites inflate and exaggerate their income, stature , and show doctored up pictures from when they were 40 pounds lighter , so do the people on hunting forum boards lie and distort the real world effectiveness of shotguns and bows - there is no way to candy coat it , there is money in it , so they exaggerate to make $$$ go out to a lake on a 10 mph day and shoot at a Lilly pad or soda can at 50 yards , try it at 82,93 , 100 yards and tell me what you see ......  Not everyday is a perfect day , and a turkeys head is a lot harder than a piece of paper -- for me I have too much respect for wildlife to take chances at crippling game like that -  I have zero ......zero respect for any individual that par takes in that activity ... And if you catch someone doing it , I suggest you let that person know how you feel about too -- if this long shot nonsense was to go unchecked I predict within 20 years time it wouldn't be worth it to step out the front door in the hopes of even hearing a gobbler - 

For the companies that took,a misstep into the long shot promoting , just cause you sell shoes don't make you a podiatrist ..... Take their suggestive marketing as simply that a suggestion -- some have cleaned up their acts , but yes admittedly some in the past have went over the top - I could write more about this but the ammo company doesn't pull the trigger , YOU the turkey hunter pull the trigger and are responsible for your actions --

There are darn good reasons why rifles are illegal in almost all places for turkey hunting , and the same should be said for " rifle type " shooting of turkeys

[Twowithone]

You nailed it Clark.

[surehuntsalot]

I am in total agreement
great post     Clark

[eman375]

Great post Clark and something that needed to be said while turkey hunting is fresh in our minds.  Many things come into play that help explain what is happening to the sport.  First, it's a generational thing.  I know there are many that are trying, and some successfully so, to mentor the next generation of hunters.  This is a difficult task.  Times have changed my friends.  We live in a fast moving world where patience is a vanishing virtue.  It's a thrill a minute society where a young person can go to their gaming station and 'kill' something at anytime, at any distance.  They have come to expect things to happen on demand.  And we're all guilty of tuning into those television shows where success is the norm.  We all fall for the gimmicks.  We use scopes, we use decoys, we use tighter chokes and extended range shotgun shells in an effort to gain an edge.  All this is fine but it makes us push the envelope.  As Clark so adeptly said, it's the hunt not the kill that will save turkeys.  We live in a society where ethics are a rarer and rarer virtue.  Deep down, we all know that which is ethical and that which is not.  We have to police ourselves.  We should all remember what turkey hunter/author, John M. McDaniel said about the noble turkey and its pursuit, and I quote, A turkey hunter with a measure of integrity will take his birds in an honorable manner...The attraction of the hunt is in meeting the challenge of predicting the birds behavior or in fooling him.  Satisfaction should be derived from the success with which this is achieved.  Killing the bird should only be rewarding when it is the culminating step in meeting significant challenges.  Killing alone is meaningless and obscene..."  Enough said...   

[chatterbox]

I have been blessed to have killed 5 turkeys in my short career.
I shoot hevishot, not to extend my range, but to increase my pattern density.
In all 5 kills, I have not shot a bird over 30 yards. In fact most have been in the 20-25 yard range.
Getting him close enough to hear him spitting and drumming is the rush!
Good post, Clark!

[Fullfan]

Well said Clark..

[trackerbucky]

Well said Clark.  Unfortunately that's the way that everything in hunting is going now.  Just the other day I saw an advertisement for a bow sight that advertised shots to 100 yards, and claims of 200+ yard muzzle loaders are everywhere now. 

[R AJ]

Thanks Clark and thanks for all the positive support from many others on this subject. Just this morning I was reading a review on Bass Pro Shop from a never again Win LB shooter . Why? Because he shot one at over 50 yards with that load and had to run it down before getting off another shot. I never had to do that with my Remington 3.5-2 1/4- 5s and I even shot one at 70 yards he continued. 

For the past two or three years we have experienced extensive droughts in California , New Mexico, Texas to name some states and with feral hogs and coyotes coming on strong I believe that it will be a tough go for the near future. On the other side of the coin, overpopulation is usually controlled by some type of disease getting into the herd or flock. We as hunters have had some of the best populations of both deer and turkey over the past 20-30 years that we may ever see.

[Old Gobbler]

I will share with you a story , by a friend and member of the forum

He was hunting out west and had filled his tags , he is a very experienced veteran turkey hunter and very good caller - he had no problem killing countless turkeys , why....cause he is a good caller and hunter

Whilst he was at the camp a very inexperienced hunter came back to camp and proclaimed " these darn shells aren't worth a bleep-bleep "  they are advertised to kill out to 80 yards -" I shot at a gobbler at 75 yards and it got away " - I'll leave your imagination up to what company and recent advertising celebrities the hunter who came back to camp was referring to , but we have all seen  the adds by a certain brothers and a very advanced lead offering made available this season with over the top advertising and bs claims

What happened to that gobbler ? Good chance a pellet or two hit him , and he might recover , then again he may not be able to fly up to the roost or digest food because of a stray pellet and die a slow death - sad - me and the member here came to the sad conclusion that this scenario probably repeated itself THOUSANDS OF TIMES THIS SPRING not just with this product but with many other loads with some clueless fool at the trigger - as I type this there are thousands of gobblers limping or rotting in the woods , over time this is a detrimental hardship on the population and you will see the harvest figures drop as more people that don't belong in the woods take shots like this and remove a sustainable species out of the habitat

WHAT IS IN THE FUTURE FOR THE WILD TURKEY ? ..... Will the sport of turkey hunting be transformed into a adventure similar to prairie dog shooting ? Where tech gun geeks try to pass themselves off as bonafide turkey hunters , or will the masses wake up and reject all this bs advertising and straight out lies by a handful of marketing fools and self proclaimed " experts " on the inter---net - 

There is another thread on this forum , where a member with 18 posts has proclaimed he has seen a couple of gobblers " hunch up " after being shot at at 60 plus yards and fly/run away ..... Take a guess what will happen to those gobblers ....  Looking at his posts he was offering to pay ( illegally ) $ 100 for 10 TSS hand loads - what do you do with people like this , they are a victim of misinformation ? Or something else -

Turkey hunting , with all the skill it takes to learn how to do it right is a very high skill thing to do , it's like learning some martial art like Kung fu , it takes years to get good at it , and it's not for everyone ....you can't run out to a store and buy yourself to the stature of a turkey hunter ......it's a skill  ....

[the Ward]

Good post Shannon!   

[Longshanks]

I was sitting around thinking about what could actually be done to educate the hunting community nationwide with respect to this issue. The only person I've heard say anything about this is Michael Waddell. He stated he would "never shoot a turkey past 40yds" in a preview to a turkey hunting special on the outdoor channel. This would have to be approached on a local level as well as a national level to have a lasting effect. A proactive stance on many levels to the only way to approach this. Brainstorming the ideas for approaching this would be the next step. Here are a few ideas I've come up with:

Hunting camps: take this issue to your board and discuss the ill effects of long range shooting. If this is going on within the camp already this will help with addressing the issue. Propose a 40yd rule.

Hunting Leases: if it is your lease or you have input with the rules, don't allow shooting over 40yds.

*When you hear people discussing long shots, step up to the plate and address it immediately.

*if the problem is as widespread as some say..this will address the issue on allot of leased lands and hunting camps. Private land will be the most difficult areas to address the issue.

Educate the public nationally:
           
     Any connections that any of us have in the hunting industry, hunting shows, game call business, professional guides etc we need to contact them and discuss the growing problem. These people can be very influential with respect to educating the public.
     Need a nationally known spokes person that feels strongly about the issue and is willing to get involved. It is going to have to be addressed on turkey hunting shows on the outdoor channel and sportsman channel. All you need is folks agreeing to put in a 5 minute dissertation on how more effective it is to let turkeys get inside 40yds before shooting. Going to have to sell this as something positive and a hunting tip that will let someone harvest more turkeys. Since allot of new turkey hunters are getting their info from hunting shows then this is a tip they need. When is the last time you heard someone on a turkey show talk about shooting inside 40yds? I've never heard that on a turkey hunting show accept for Michael Waddell. Need to get people on board that are willing to give a talk on the issue at huntng seminars. They have speakers all day long and they are always trying to fill spots. Educating the public on using a range finder for turkey hunting, set your 40 marks with the range finder and then start calling. I have found that people have a very difficult time judging yardage sitting on the ground. If we are going to stand and be heard then folks are gonna have to be willing to do some talking.

       Get the NWTF on board with respect to this issue. If it is as widespread as some say and you can prove it..it will be an easy sell to them. They will help with getting articles into hunting magazines and on their website. Turkey & Turkey hunting magazine/website would be one of the best to get articles in about this issue. You get the NWTF behind the issue and they will have it broadcasted in every arena if the turkey hunting world.

        My point is there are allot of ways to approach this and I'm sure you guys have allot of great ideas as well. These are just a few ideas I've come up with. If we are going to stand and be heard...then we are gonna have to stand up and be heard. Not buying products or supporting companies going to be a difficult approach because these shells that are being marketed are still some of the best patterning loads inside 40 so people are going to buy them regardless. Hevi 13 and Winchester are sone of the best turkey loads inside 40yds period and a staple shell of the majority of turkey hunters.

[Gooserbat]

Good post by all. 

The marketing hype of the 55, 66, 70 and so on yard shot is only a part of the problem.  Much like bowhunting this is a close range sport.  I will quote what my Dad said at the end of our 2014 season when he had only killed one bird, and had countless inside of 60 yards but only one inside of 40.  "I got to see them and hear them gobble.  That's worth something right there."

Sure I've got a set up that will cleanly kill past 40, so dose most who post here, but that's not the fun of it.  I myself would rather have one spit and drum at 12 yards and blow my hat off with a gobble, than snipe one with htl #6 at 59 steps any day. 

Instant gratification of the kill is ruining the hunting traditions of what we know.  This is being fueled by the video market be it, on cable TV or the internet.  A kill at all cost has become more important than the hunt.  Woodsmanship has been lost to technology, and both respect for our quarry and our selves along with it. 
   

[tomstopper]

Good post by all.