TFT vs NWTF?

[ScottTaulbee]

My question is, how many more studies can we possibly do?  Putting all that donated money and time towards habitat would benefit the wild turkey way more than anything.  TFT isn't even listening to its own biologist when it comes to predator removal.  Every research i've seen when it comes to trapping basically says its useless if you don't have the habitat.  But they are pushing these coon trapping events like its somehow going to save poults 4 months from now.  If those 500 people who participated would have done prescribed fires instead of trapping a few coons now that would have made a difference.  How much more research do we need?  Poults are not surviving.

My thoughts exactly. I trapped from the age of 12 until I was in my early 20's and regularly took 150+ coons, plus typically a dozen coyotes, a few mink and muskrats, generally caught 20 or 30 possums in coon sets and the occasional skunk. In order to trap effectively you have to know the animals pretty much inside and out and know how they think in order to get them to step on to a 2" square and get caught, dog proof traps had just started coming out towards the end of my time trapping. Part of the success trapping the "nest predators" was knowing how they move through the year, and as far as "nest predators" are concerned, they don't go actively hunting nests of eggs on the ground. They move through their range normally and are opportunistic eaters.
So putting 2 and 2 together, it would seem that the reason they are finding and eating nests are because the hens are laying nests in the predators home ranges they cover. That tells me that the hens are laying in unsuitable habitat to begin with. The "war" in my eyes isn't on nest predators, they're doing what they do. The problem lies in, why are the hens having to lay nests in poor habitat to begin with?. In my eyes, it's farmers that want pretty fields and state fish and wildlife departments throwing the money elsewhere instead of taking care of the public lands like they're supposed to.


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[TurkeyReaper69]

I'll admit, I have been very skeptical of TFT and have not yet donated my time or support to them. I've mainly been skeptical of the organization due to who their poster child is...

But with that, I am impressed with their communication with members/public about research projects and where the money is going to.

I have spent years' worth of time volunteering for a local chapter and money with the NWTF, I've always heard of folk's skepticism of the NWTF. I regretfully admit I'm done supporting the org. Tired of the RD who is crooked and corrupt lining his pockets on top of his base salary. Tired of the millions spent on C-Suite executives' salaries. Disgusted by the award the NWTF gave THP last year (or was that the year before? Idk can't remember).

I believe at the local level the NWTF chapters could do great things, and the boots on ground volunteers (like I was) have nothing but good intentions. But the national leadership spends far too much money on marketing campaigns, salaries, and all other sorts of needless fluff that isn't directly beneficial to the wild turkey.

So yes, I will consider throwing 35 bucks a year at TFT now.

[Vintage]

You are 15.00 short. Membership is $50.00

[cwedding]

I personally will not be renewing my NWTF membership this year for the first time in a long long time..

Their "Golden Goals" was the nail in the coffin for me. These goals are absurd to me, other than 2 and 3 (Goal #2 - $500k to Turkey Research, Goal #3 - Impact 1M acres positively)



Goal #1 - Recruit 75,000 more members
Goal #4 - $1,000,000 to Hunting Heritage Program

Why on earth are we spending money on making new hunters and members such high priority? Populations are on the decline, and turkey hunting is more popular than it has ever been.

How many people have lost turkey hunting due to the Anti's passing bills that we couldn't fight because we didn't have enough hunters? I'm all ears to hear about those, bc I sure haven't seen any in the South.

Yet all of us are losing opportunities to turkey hunt due to population decline and Over Hunting! How is making more hunters the solution here??

Goal #5 - $5,000,000 to IT infrastructure
Goal #6 - $5,000,000 to build an endowment

So $10M to that, $500k to research.

I see more use out of my dollar with TFT. I'm going Team Turkey Membership Level with them and have already seen them benefiting my home state of Tennessee. They just received an award today from Tennessee for their efforts.

Side note- NWTF also Unlisted the YouTube video they did of me hunting in Nevada . I'm very outspoken against the act of fanning turkeys and I guess they can't associate with some "purist" like myself. I stayed a member after that, but after seeing these goals, I am not renewing. I plan to spend my money impacting the acres I can and with TFT annually.


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[Old Gobbler]

I've Joined TFT , I believe the organization is doing the right thing and is moving in a direction that will benefit Wild Turkeys..

About the trapping , I'm not a expert on the biological benefits  of trapping , but I will say killing every single coon, crow, coyote and possum you can lay your eyes on is not going to HURT the turkey population...so kill away !

[slicksbeagles1]

I personally will not be renewing my NWTF membership this year for the first time in a long long time..

Their "Golden Goals" was the nail in the coffin for me. These goals are absurd to me, other than 2 and 3 (Goal #2 - $500k to Turkey Research, Goal #3 - Impact 1M acres positively)



Goal #1 - Recruit 75,000 more members
Goal #4 - $1,000,000 to Hunting Heritage Program

Why on earth are we spending money on making new hunters and members such high priority? Populations are on the decline, and turkey hunting is more popular than it has ever been.

How many people have lost turkey hunting due to the Anti's passing bills that we couldn't fight because we didn't have enough hunters? I'm all ears to hear about those, bc I sure haven't seen any in the South.

Yet all of us are losing opportunities to turkey hunt due to population decline and Over Hunting! How is making more hunters the solution here??

Goal #5 - $5,000,000 to IT infrastructure
Goal #6 - $5,000,000 to build an endowment

So $10M to that, $500k to research.

I see more use out of my dollar with TFT. I'm going Team Turkey Membership Level with them and have already seen them benefiting my home state of Tennessee. They just received an award today from Tennessee for their efforts.

Side note- NWTF also Unlisted the YouTube video they did of me hunting in Nevada . I'm very outspoken against the act of fanning turkeys and I guess they can't associate with some "purist" like myself. I stayed a member after that, but after seeing these goals, I am not renewing. I plan to spend my money impacting the acres I can and with TFT annually.


 
I went to the NWTF  convention this year to be with friends and other than that the NWTF has lost their path. True or not I heard that the NWTF hired a company to put on the show! The NWTF is in the process of liquidating everything they have in Edgefield SC! They sold the museum to Johnny Morris and Bass Pro Shop and the museum is in Memphis Bass Pro which it cost to see! To me from what I have heard it sounds like the NWTF has dug themselves are financial hole that they might never be able to dig themselves out of why else would you liquidate all of your assets which was provided by the members. On a final note how can they sell a museum full of donated items that actually belong to someone's family showcasing the history of turkey hunting and the people involved?

[GobbleNut]

To me from what I have heard it sounds like the NWTF has dug themselves are financial hole that they might never be able to dig themselves out of why else would you liquidate all of your assets which was provided by the members.

As one who was somewhat closely involved and directly witnessed it, this is most definitely what has happened.  The NWTF "bit off more than it could chew" starting back in the 1980's.  Thinking the growth (and dollars) they were experiencing at that time would never end, they invested tons of money into infrastructure, employees, and salaries. 

Then came the realization that to support all of that stuff, they had to maintain the necessary revenue flow,...so they turned their focus more towards fundraising, banquets, and membership increases rather than the original mission of ensuring thriving wild turkey populations (and admittedly, part of that was due to the phenomenal success of focusing on that mission initially). 

"The Problem" as it stands now is that the change of focus from the mission has alienated a lot of folks who were the backbone of NWTF,...and the volunteer support system and dollars those folks brought in.  For the last couple of decades, at least, NWTF has been scrambling to make up that deficit while still holding the same debt load.

The stuff we see going on now,... the dumping of a lot of the excess baggage in all of its forms,...is an attempt to get back to some level of financial sustainability as an organization.  I think they will eventually reach that equilibrium.  Turkey hunting is popular enough that they will always have a significant base of support, regardless of the approach they take to attracting it.

In reality, what happened with NWTF is not that unusual.  We have seen it in both the non-profit and profit world over and over and over again. 

[Greg Massey]

I'm sure after it's all said and done the NWTF will survive all our comments. From what I've heard the last few days from Nashville the Convention crowds have been pretty large. All organizations including NWTF / TFT will have people come and go over time...  Us older ones remember the days of old and the new generation will see a completely different path of the NWTF ..   

[eggshell]

I agree Gobblenut and I hope they do right the ship and get back on course. It's kind of like a movie I saw once. The plane lost an engine and they had a choice of reducing the load or crashing and the first thing to go was all the luggage with the ladies pretty clothes. Nice stuff to have, but not essential. I actually commend them for doing it.

They still do good things. I will be a guide on a wheeling sportsman hunt again this spring and it is a great thing. I done my first one last year and had a great time and said sign me up next year. I guided a wounded warrior for two days and was so impressed with his fortitude. Sometimes we just need to quit whining and do some good....(preaching to myself)

[Moore]

I never heard of the tft. I may have to give them a look. I was a member of the nwtf here in Minnesota. I joined for a few different reasons one was to volunteer for things was hunting related, not t to raise money for someone's salary. I decided to leave when some good people here in MN got dogged out by the state chapter.

[JordanKBarnes]

Here is something to lull over. NWTF regional directors make more money than most biologists who work for state wildlife agencies, including some of the turkey coordinators for those states.

I second this as facts and know it to be true.

[slave601]

call it what you want.....in the end nothing moves without money, nothing. the nwtf has given plenty of money to plenty of things, plenty of times. mismanaged ? sure it is, but what aint??? There is no organization that goes without its corruptions , its inevitable. I like TFT as well and im a member of both, because its all we got.  i see no reason to create a one vs the other scenario...ultimately there are great people in both organizations.

Well said

[sasquatch1]

[quote author=cwed

Why on earth are we spending money on making new hunters and members such high priority? Populations are on the decline, and turkey hunting is more popular than it has ever been.

How many people have lost turkey hunting due to the Anti's passing bills that we couldn't fight because we didn't have enough hunters? I'm all ears to hear about those, bc I sure haven't seen any in the South.

Yet all of us are losing opportunities to turkey hunt due to population decline and Over Hunting! How is making more hunters the solution here??



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[/quote]


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The answer is simple to why they want to make more hunters.

More hunters=more members=more money.

[eggshell]

I have supported the NWTF in the past, but for the last 20 years I simply donate directly to my states Wildlife fund. Our state income tax form has a box on it to check and donate directly to the Wildlife fund. Make no mistake, the NWTF and TFT suppliment funding for turkeys, but they are only a small portion. The states bear the main burden and do 98% of the work. When most of the turkey restoration was done neither of these organizations existed. Instead of support we often just bitch about our state agencies. I am biased because I spent 31 years working for a Wildlife Agency and I was called a Lazy S.O.B way more than I was even told a simple thank you. The NWTF and other orgs are there when the pictures are taken, but it's the biologist and workers doing the work. If they both disappeared today turkey management would take a mild hit, but still keep on going. These organizations do good things, but their first goal is self promotion, in my opinion. I had some organizations donate funds directly to my projects and I appreciated them, but in th end they were almost always a very small part of my funding, in most cases 1-3 % of total cost. Now NWTF has dropped some big numbers in the past for land purchase and that is huge, but it's been a long time since I heard that happening. I would guess they are providing maybe 10% of turkey mangt funding in most states

[Cowboy]

The CEO salary for NWTF made $332,000 plus a couple years ago. Chew on that for awhile. Since they are a nonprofit organization, those stats are available.  Revenue was in the neighborhood of $35,000,000 to $40,000,000.

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