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Started by Roost 1, July 16, 2022, 09:17:59 AM
Quote from: mountainhunter1 on July 18, 2022, 12:49:32 PMI watch the whole video. Thanks for sharing. If you don't have time to watch it all - the time frame of 17:45-20:45 is worth hearing if you cannot hear it all. That said, and while there are over a half a dozen key factors really affecting turkeys, - Dr. Chamberlain says one thing in almost every video of his sharing about this issue, and he says it again in this one at the 27:46 mark, and that is "that most nests are failing."He talks about all the issues, but then he always comes back to that one key thought that most nests are failing. And the fact of it is that nests are not failing because of a loss of habitat. They are not failing because of out of state hunters, they are not failing because of a larger bag limit, - those nests are failing because of predators. That much we know. We MUST address the predator issue or just get ready to say goodbye to turkey hunting as we know it at some point.
Quote from: Paulmyr on July 18, 2022, 01:35:06 PMQuote from: mountainhunter1 on July 18, 2022, 12:49:32 PMI watch the whole video. Thanks for sharing. If you don't have time to watch it all - the time frame of 17:45-20:45 is worth hearing if you cannot hear it all. That said, and while there are over a half a dozen key factors really affecting turkeys, - Dr. Chamberlain says one thing in almost every video of his sharing about this issue, and he says it again in this one at the 27:46 mark, and that is "that most nests are failing."He talks about all the issues, but then he always comes back to that one key thought that most nests are failing. And the fact of it is that nests are not failing because of a loss of habitat. They are not failing because of out of state hunters, they are not failing because of a larger bag limit, - those nests are failing because of predators. That much we know. We MUST address the predator issue or just get ready to say goodbye to turkey hunting as we know it at some point. I've listened to Chamberlain a number of times and I've heard him say on more than one occasion, If your nesting and brood rearing habitat is good predators become less of a factor. I've also heard him say during his travels throughout the south more often than not habitat is conducive for predators and not rearing turkeys.
Quote from: Paulmyr on July 18, 2022, 10:12:36 PMAnother thought on habitat issues. This was in one of the podcasts I listened to with Chamberlain. They gps tagged some turkeys a few years back. In the study they tagged a hen who had a 26 mile home range. The thinking behind why her home range was so big is that's the amount of territory she had to cover throughout the year to find what she needed to survive sometimes traveling multiple miles in a day. It's my understanding that wild animals only travel as far as they have to in order to find what they need. If the habitat in the area this hen called home forced her to travel that far to find what she needed that's a problem. She's using up energy she normally wouldn't in better habitat. She's not in as good of shape heading into and coming out of winter and it will show in the number and health of eggs she'll attempt to lay. She starts off the breeding season behind the 8 ball. If her clutch happened to be one that survived predation she'll have fewer polts than her counter parts did 20/30/40 years ago when habitat was better. That's if she was in good enough shape to even attempt to initiate a nest. Now if this study hen is an example of a broader issue effecting most of the hens in her area of the country or even throughout the areas in decline across the country there is a bigger problem than killing predators is going to solve. Chamberlain didn't get into this example in this podcast but he did put emphasis on the fact that there are most likely multiple reasons for declines in turkey populations. They are not all encompassing and variable to some degree, that is to say what might be causing declines around Mountain Home Ar. might not be the same culprits verbatim in Savanna Ga. Do predators have an impact? Most likely. Will killing a bunch of predators solve the issue? Possibly. The perception is and some studies indicate that 70 to 80 percent of nest get predated every spring. Is this a new phenomenon or has it been happening for thousands of years. If it's been happening for thousands of years I would assume it to be a zero sum game. Add other variables to the mix like degrading habitat and hunting pressure and the summation changes. The big question is what can be done if anything to get it back to an equilibrium? Will heavy anti predator measures have an effect. It's my understanding nest raider production meets the carrying capacity of the land. Kill a bunch and they have more offspring to make up the difference. Reduce habitat beneficial to predators and reproduction falls. When it comes to predation I keep thinking about turkey populations before colonization of the country. Turkey populations were estimated to be around 10 million, almost twice what we see today. There are stories of a continuous gobble during the spring from early settlers. There were so many turkeys in areas you couldn't tell when one gobble ended and another started and this ran fluid across the country side. Am I to believe the Natives had extensive predator control efforts to keep raccoons and other nest raiders in check. I don't think that's hardly the case. So with predator populations running unchecked prior to colonization what allowed Turkey populations to grow to the large numbers seen back then? The only thing I can come up with is habitat and a human population that didn't reek havoc on them during the breeding season.Now I'm not saying don't trap or shoot predators because it's not worth it. Do what you can on your end even if it's a couple raccoons a year. Every little bit helps. What I am saying is I think it's a little deeper and the battle will have to be fought on a couple fronts if there are to be any long term sustainable results.Should be an interesting couple years coming up with the revitalization of concern about wild turkey populations and the studies underway and yet to come.
Quote from: Paulmyr on July 18, 2022, 10:12:36 PMWhen it comes to predation I keep thinking about turkey populations before colonization of the country. Turkey populations were estimated to be around 10 million, almost twice what we see today. There are stories of a continuous gobble during the spring from early settlers. There were so many turkeys in areas you couldn't tell when one gobble ended and another started and this ran fluid across the country side. Am I to believe the Natives had extensive predator control efforts to keep raccoons and other nest raiders in check. I don't think that's hardly the case.
Quote from: hawk1958 on July 25, 2022, 01:40:59 PMQuote from: Paulmyr on July 18, 2022, 10:12:36 PMWhen it comes to predation I keep thinking about turkey populations before colonization of the country. Turkey populations were estimated to be around 10 million, almost twice what we see today. There are stories of a continuous gobble during the spring from early settlers. There were so many turkeys in areas you couldn't tell when one gobble ended and another started and this ran fluid across the country side. Am I to believe the Natives had extensive predator control efforts to keep raccoons and other nest raiders in check. I don't think that's hardly the case. I have thought of this also. Back then there were larger predators such as panthers and wolves to help control nest raiders. Here in Iowa there are very few predators of racoons left.hawk1958
Quote from: Paulmyr on July 25, 2022, 06:32:08 PMQuote from: hawk1958 on July 25, 2022, 01:40:59 PMQuote from: Paulmyr on July 18, 2022, 10:12:36 PMWhen it comes to predation I keep thinking about turkey populations before colonization of the country. Turkey populations were estimated to be around 10 million, almost twice what we see today. There are stories of a continuous gobble during the spring from early settlers. There were so many turkeys in areas you couldn't tell when one gobble ended and another started and this ran fluid across the country side. Am I to believe the Natives had extensive predator control efforts to keep raccoons and other nest raiders in check. I don't think that's hardly the case. I have thought of this also. Back then there were larger predators such as panthers and wolves to help control nest raiders. Here in Iowa there are very few predators of racoons left.hawk1958I just checked out a list of racoons predators from a couple online articles and yes wolves and panthers were on it as well as coyotes, foxes, hawks, eagles, owls, bobcats, and bears. One list went as far as to say raccoons were one of the most preyed on animals in the world. I'm sure there aren't many bears if any in Iowa but there are plenty of the other predators I'm sure as well as in the areas the are seeing the greatest declines in turkeys. Most of the smaller predators are thought to prey on juveniles. A single adult coyote seems to be able to handle an adult racoons rather easily from what I've read. A pack has no problem at all. Coyotes have excellent eyesight and can see in the dark. I would think a great horned owl wouldn't have much of a problem taking down an adult raccoon with it's silent attack from the air surprising them at night when raccoons are most active. As with most predators I would think eating raccoons is a matter of opportunity and how hungry they are.The one that kind of surprised me was foxes until you think about them attacking juveniles. It's also thought they go after adult raccoons in the winter when food is scarce. All this brings me back to my statement predators are present in the amount of the carrying capacity of the the land. It's no different today than it was 200 years ago. Nature will balance itself out without interference from man.
Quote from: Paulmyr link=topic=110155.ms When it comes to predation I keep thinking about turkey populations before colonization of the country. Turkey populations were estimated to be around 10 million, almost twice what we see today.