How does weather affect the lek?

[ChesterCopperpot]

I got to wondering last night about something as we're set for some real high winds today and tonight with the North Carolina opener tomorrow morning. Outside of spring the turkeys around me here in the mountains will leave the high ground and shelter in the bottoms when the wind gets up for days on end. But what I got to wondering was once toms establish their leks are they affected at all by weather? Do they move if it gets too windy or too wet or snows? Or do they just ride it out knowing the weather pattern won't hold, and because they've already established this is my spot, this is where my hens come? Same can be said for hens and I imagine we'll all agree once their on the nest they just have to hunker down and ride it out. Personally I doubt the gobblers move much from that core area they've established, at least during peak breeding.


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[ol bob]

I'm in the piedmont of N.C. and they stay in the fields on high wind and  or wet days but don't move.

[ChesterCopperpot]

I'm in the piedmont of N.C. and they stay in the fields on high wind and  or wet days but don't move.

I should specify, I mean big wood birds. Them old ridge running timber gabriels that ain't got fields to run to.


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[bwhana]

I'm in the piedmont of N.C. and they stay in the fields on high wind and  or wet days but don't move.

I should specify, I mean big wood birds. Them old ridge running timber gabriels that ain't got fields to run to.


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I have definitely observed lower roost sites in the NC mtns on nights like we are getting tonight.  They usually roost high and go low first thing, so it will be a crapshoot if they stay low or go high tomorrow!

[Paulmyr]

I think the term Lek is used by biologist pretty loosely in the turkey woods. I think it's used more for the behaviour of Tom's displaying and attracting hens than the actual location. I've heard it called an exploded Lek involving turkeys across the countryside trying to attract hens where as shartptail grouse leks are specific areas birds show up at annually to display.

In the turkey woods the attracting of hens is not dedicated to a single location, it's a mobile thing. Tom's display when ever and where ever they feel like displaying in their home range. There are certain spots within the home ranges that offer a better chance of the display being effective. A point on a ridge over looking a large valley is a good spot for gobbling to be heard. A tom doesn't limit himself to sitting on this spot the entire season to try to attract hens. He's got multiple areas within his home range he likes to use and the use of these spots aren't limited to just him.

He may like to start the day off on that point as it's a good location for his gobbling to be heard and move to the valley floor where open hardwoods are a good location for his strutting to be seen. The next day may find him on the other side of the ridge overlooking a different valley or on a large flat that has been recently logged.

I would think weather would play a role in which areas he chooses as much for security reasons as it is for for breeding. I don't see a Tom's wanting to sit on top of a ridge gobbling and strutting to attract hens in a 30mph wind. It's a bad location for security reasons. The wind ripping through the woods takes his hearing and eyesight out of play when detecting predators. A sheltered valley with that wind blowing over the top can be quite calm and peaceful offering security and a place to display and attract hens. Rainey days may have him in that logged off area where he can at least use his eyesight to detect predators. Nice calm sunny days his options are greatly expanded security wise and you may find him anywhere.

[ChesterCopperpot]

Yes, exploded lek is correct. And as an example, on the ridge above my house I can hear six or seven gobblers in the same general areas every morning. They're all within earshot of one another. They all tend to stay in their given area. They've all got their own hens. Surely there are gobblers that roam, and all seem to hit the road and wander late in the season, but during peak breeding where I am for the most part they stay put. So my question is what happens when one's given area is more adversely affected by weather compared to another? Does he leave that core area and risk pushing into another gobbler's territory? Does he abandon his hens for the time being or attempt to take them with him?


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[Paulmyr]

I think when they use the term exploded Lek it cover an area greater than what you can hear. Move to the perimeter of the the area you described and the exploded lek expands beyond that area as well. The Lek dont move as it encompasses an area far greater than what you are able to hear. The positioning of the toms within the exploded Lek definitely changes according to what phase breeding cycle they are in and of course weather as I've explained above. Weather is more of a security risk to them and they act accordingly to mitigate that risk. If he's sitting on a point over looking a valley with a 30 mph wind blowing in his face he's most likely not going to stay there for long. There will be too much movement and too much noise for him to use his most powerful tools in detecting danger. Of the different toms you describe, 6 or 7 I think the number was, there will be a pecking order established even though they are not hanging together. If the boss wants to move he will, the other toms will respect his movements or there will be a fight. The Boss will decide which area he wants and the satellite toms will adjust accordingly.

You say the Toms have thier core area and tend not to move from these areas until later in the season. My understanding is what you call core areas are most likely the best areas for display. The most dominant Tom will pick the best spot. So my question to you would be, are you sure it's the same Tom in the same spot day after day, which most certainly can be the case under stable good weather conditions, or is it a case the the area is good for display and multiple toms use it and depends on the movements of more dominant toms that dictate which of these good display positions the subordinates will use that day.

[Hobbes]

I suppose I've not heard the term "exploded lek" when referring to turkeys.  I'm not saying that's not the correct term but turkeys definitely don't have a lek anything remotely similar to what a sharptail or sage grouse does.

[ChesterCopperpot]

I suppose I've not heard the term "exploded lek" when referring to turkeys.  I'm not saying that's not the correct term but turkeys definitely don't have a lek anything remotely similar to what a sharptail or sage grouse does.

Exploded lek is the correct biological term, and, no, it's not anything like the leks of grouse or other birds. My question just boils down to the gobbler's core area, the given area he claims for himself. For some, and in the case of the birds I'm talking about, it seems very very defined. And my questions is whether those boundaries get blurred as a result of weather?


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[Paulmyr]

I suppose I've not heard the term "exploded lek" when referring to turkeys.  I'm not saying that's not the correct term but turkeys definitely don't have a lek anything remotely similar to what a sharptail or sage grouse does.

I haven't heard of the term exploded Lek until recently. From what I understand, In theory the exploded Lek could encompass the whole of the Appalachian mountains or any other mountain range/geographical feature that holds turkey's during the breeding season. That's pretty large scale and I think the Exploded Lek can be narrowed down considerably. Imo the similarity with sharptail and sage grouse come from display/gobbling of turkey's to the display/cooing from the grouse trying to attract a mate and the fact that dominant birds choose the best positions within the Lek/exploded Lek to attract mates it's just the turkey Lek is on a much larger scale than that of the grouse.

In Chestercopperpot's example it's my opinion gobblers  that can hear each other have a pecking order with a dominant bird. That pecking order influences the behavior of the gobblers in the area. The Boss takes the best position depending on variables such as weather, elevation, visibility, food sources for hens, and so on. The best position may change from day to day, within the day, or it may stay static for a period of time. The subordinate gobblers adjust accordingly. The fact that every gobbler in Chester's example seems to have hens has nothing to with the pecking order established between gobblers. The pecking order only delineates the position of the Tom in the hierarchy between gobblers. The hens choose which tom they like the best not necessarily because he's biggest baddest bird in the flock, being the biggest baddest allows him the best position to display to hens thus attracting more hens to view his display allowing him to breed with more hens before they move off to breed with another gobbler. It may be with one of the surrounding toms or with a gobbler 3 miles away.

As an example, I hunted an area last spring. It was a creek bed in fairly flat terrain. I set up on a roosted gobbler and found he had hens with him. Soon after a murder of crows moved in and created quite the racket. Between the hens cutting and the crows cawing the Gobbler barely took a breath between gobbles. During this time I hear far off gobbles, maybe ¾'s of a mile away. Figuring my odds were zero to none on the Gobbler I was set up on I slowly made my way over to where I heard the distant gobbles.

By the time I reached the new area the gobbles had ceased. I crossed the creek, set up, and did some calling. It didn't take long for lone hen to reply. We got into a little back and forth and she crossed the creek coming towards me. A gobbler sounded off just out of sight to my right. It was on of them quiet gobbles and only one. The hen turned and headed his direction. Soon the woods were quiet again.

I sat for a while calling moderately in hopes of drawing a response from the Tom. Did the hen lead him away? I called more aggressively and heard a gobble in the distance in front of me. I kept up the aggressive calling and the gobbles got closer. At about 150yds the Gobbler hung up. Turns out there were 2 of them and they drew a line in sand. I kept calling to them as that's what got them going in the 1st place and they kept gobbling. I was thinking of the silent treatment when another sounded of to my left. He was far off but moving closer as I called. The 2 in front of me kept gobbling but not nearly as aggressively. The Tom to my right sounded of with a courtesy gobble. He had moved off to about 200 yds. He only gobbled on more time during this mix up.  Meanwhile the Gobbler to my left was close enough I could hear his drumming. I couldn't see him as he was  behind a slight rise that was 25yds  out. All the sudden behind me hens erupted in cutting. I threw it back at them and the 3 of them hopped the creek and yet another Tom sounds off behind them.  The original Gobbler and hens I set up on early that mourning. That makes 5 gobblers and 4 hens in close proximity to me that were in entirely different areas throughout the mourn until this point in time. The hens came across the creek but he would not budge and he was gobbling up a storm. The hens came up to the small rise between me and the drumming Gobbler, clearly the Boss. The hens cutt and looked for me for a few mins before moving away with the drumming Tom in tow.

The new arrival behind me kept ripping it up but would come no closer. The 2 out in front of me pretty much shut up when the hens showed up cutting. Finally I moved on him when I felt the hens and the boss were far enough to safely do so. It took some time to recross the creek and find a new set up. By this time he had moved off. When I finally got a response from him, he was 200yds away and heading back towards where he started the mourning. He responded 2 more times in short order and it started to rain. I could draw no more responses from him. He was out of there. The heavy drizzle took away one of his best tools for defense. I would need to find a more open area where he could use his eyes if I was to have luck calling him in. After waiting about ½ hour and getting soaking wet, I headed to the truck.
That was the second to the last day of the season may 29th. 5 gobblers from different areas converged on me. 3 of which had hens close or paying attention to them at some point in the mourning even though I was aware of only 4 hens. 3 of the hens interacted with 2 of the gobblers. Of the 5 gobblers there was only one boss. Earlier in the season it may not have happened that way as there would most likely be more hens to go around keeping the toms in their original areas.

My experience  hunting from Georgia to Mn and states in between over 30 years leads me to believe the behavior of turkey's in the exploded Lek are similar to what I've described above.


I'm getting tired of changing elk back to Lek. Stupid spell check!

[Sir-diealot]

Forgive the stupid question, I have never heard the term "lek" before, what exactly does it mean and what is it derived from? Thanks.

[Hobbes]

Forgive the stupid question, I have never heard the term "lek" before, what exactly does it mean and what is it derived from? Thanks.

This is a sharptail grouse lek in Montana that I got some video of around 10 years ago.  There are probably lots of better videos out there.

https://youtu.be/kH9TzKa6fp4

[Paulmyr]

A lek is a term used to describe the breeding grounds mainly of shartptail and sage grouse. it's a particular area with shorter grass where the males of the species show up and display for mating purposes. The hens visit the leks to find suitable mates.

[Paulmyr]

Forgive the stupid question, I have never heard the term "lek" before, what exactly does it mean and what is it derived from? Thanks.

This is a sharptail grouse lek in Montana that I got some video of around 10 years ago.  There are probably lots of better videos out there.

https://youtu.be/kH9TzKa6fp4

We actually have a few shartptail leks near our cabin north of McGregor, Mn. one has viewing blinds set up for the public to reserve and watch the antics.

[Tom007]

I hunt the "Big Woods Eastern's". On an extremely windy day, I'll hunt any open area, ie gas lines, power lines, fields. If they are not in your terrain, I'll start on the "sheltered side of the parcel", less windy side. I find the turkeys are super wary in the wind, but if your patient, and call loud they will come.....roost site have varied due to extreme winds....