The Solution

[owlhoot]

So with all this predator talk am I to believe that states or areas that have good turkey populations haven't had an increase in predators since the drop in trapping participation?

Doubtfull.  Which states have  increasing turkey populations ?

I have been looking online for state-by-state information about turkey populations and harvest, trying to compile a map of turkey population trends for each state (say, 2010 vs. 2020) to see if there are any patterns across certain regions.

It is challenging as some states have very spotty data on estimated turkey populations.  Also, current harvest numbers compared to historical harvest can also be skewed due to online reporting vs. in-person historical reporting...

Yes , a challenging task to say the least.
To me online reporting makes it easy. Cell phone apps , really easy. Not having to take a 50 mile round trip to check one in saves gas money and time.  You can get on with your day. I do miss the check station meeting other people and seeing what they shot too.
Unsure where you were going with that? More or less being checked in?

Lot less are checked in from mandated self-reporting compared to historical post-season phone survey data collection.

Some southern states, where mandated reported is fairly new, estimate that only 50-70% of harvested turkey are actually reported.

Wow ,  that's a ton. Isn't that illegal ? If so that is a bunch of poaching. Guess they don't run out of tags.

[PNWturkey]

Lot less are checked in from mandated self-reporting compared to historical post-season phone survey data collection.

Some southern states, where mandated reported is fairly new, estimate that only 50-70% of harvested turkey are actually reported.

Iowa - several years after they implemented mandatory reporting, Iowa DNR did some spot-checks and estimated only that 83.8% of the deer were reported (see graph below).  This makes it difficult to get accurate estimates of deer/turkey harvest!

IMO, any "reported" turkey harvest number from a given state is likely ~20% or more underreported.

I personally know individuals who either don't report at all, or give misinformation when reporting (i.e. a different county/zone than they actually hunted).  Their reasons range from "not wanting anyone to know how good the hunting is in XYZ county" to "I don't want the government nosing around in my hunting"...

[arkrem870]

The south uses the honor system typically...... no tags or make your own tags. Enough said

[honker22]

The south uses the honor system typically...... no tags or make your own tags. Enough said

The folks that shoot the "corn buzzards" on the deer leases probably don't send in anything during the fall.

[ChesterCopperpot]

I personally know individuals who either don't report at all, or give misinformation when reporting (i.e. a different county/zone than they actually hunted).  Their reasons range from "not wanting anyone to know how good the hunting is in XYZ county" to "I don't want the government nosing around in my hunting"...

I always report but I completely understand the "not wanting anyone to know how good the hunting is in XYZ county." As hunting trends have shifted to primarily cyber scouting and more and more people travel, I honestly don't believe state agencies should be sharing harvest reports. I get that it's public information, but the agencies first objective is to protect the resource and if publishing those numbers has the potential to impact that resource in my mind they shouldn't be obligated to share. Same as agencies out west refusing to publish tracking collar data for elk. Legally it's yours to request, but they sure do everything in their power to make it hard to get your hands on, and rightfully so in my opinion.


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[Sir-diealot]

Predator hunting will indeed help, but not much. one of the problems and people here have gotten mad at me for stating such here before is modern farming practices, you see people cutting down every hedgerow in site thus taking away cover, you have crops that are being cut in mid May to mid June that used to be cut in July and that is killing poults, nests, nesting/brooding hens, ducks (Friend ran some over a week ago in the field) deer and so on, the crops are cut closer to the ground than they used to be causing further problems and the machinery is driving faster making it harder for the animals to get away from said machinery.

Now you throw in all the chemicals that are used in farming of all kind whether that be to grow corn or in my area grapes for canning and the wineries that are so big here and that does not help the animals or us.

I think the spreading of turkey droppings has been shown to carry disease as well and I do not see how that is going to stop unless we stop eating domestic turkey but I seem to remember Avian Flu and one other one where they get bugs in their stomachs and then end up working up into their eyes was linked to domestic turkey droppings (I may be mistaken on the Avian Flu but not the other) so that is working against them and then you take the never ending stupid and uninformed comments about the deer can live with it and so can the turkey when the biological makeup of breeding and how it is done and how many turkey vs deer survive from being young to adult can't be compared and these animals are in real trouble.

Add to all that loss of habitat and urban sprawl and it really is scary to think what your great grandchildren are going to have left by the time they can hunt, heck for you guy that just have young children now your grandchildren may not have anything left.

[eggshell]

On reporting  harvest information. You are right it is public information because it is public paid for, but you are also correct it does not have to be publicly published. A request can take time and be complicated if they want, however; I am not in favor of that. I think sportsmen/women have the right to know. Unless there is definitive proof it's harming the resource, which there is not.

On farming practices. Yes farming has developed some techniques that are detrimental to wildlife survival. The big question is how do you  feed the world without today's highly efficient farming....there's no easy answer. If you research it you will find that much of today's farming has some restrictions and conservation built into it (wetland protection/development and CRP) . I don't know about all areas of the country, but for the midwest conservation programs have been the basis for the return of many species. If you go back to the 60s whitetail deer and turkey were a rare sighting in many places, and totally absent in some. The EPA (although cursed by many) banned DDT and many other chemicals that were killing off many species. Bald Eagles are one of this nations great wildlife stories. They are common in many place now that were totally devoid of them as late as the 70s and 80s. Forest management has taken big strides over mass clear cutting and land stripping. Our streams are as clean as they have been in 75 years and filled with recovering species. I agree there is still too much land clearing and development, but how do you curb that on a planet with a growing population?. In summary, it's not all gloom and doom. All this is a daunting task for our future generations, but unlike our ancestors and even grandparents we are working on it. There was a time they thought the resources were unlimited and they killed everything in sight, cut down miles of forest and dug up every inch they could. Our ancestors did not leave a stellar legacy! The recent generations have done much better.

We sit back and complain about our wildlife agencies, but in reality they are hard at work and have quite a few success stories. Is there room for improvement, yes.

[Sir-diealot]

@eggshell "The big question is how do you  feed the world without today's highly efficient farming....there's no easy answer."

I honestly disagree with the statement, the problem is not that we do not have enough food, the simple fact is we waste way to much food and there really is more than enough for all. Corporate greed and also politics get in the way of getting food to many places, if not for this there would be enough many times over.

[owlhoot]

The best habitat for turkey reproduction is a square mile that does not have 20+ nest raiders on it.

[Cowboy]

The best habitat for turkey reproduction is a square mile that does not have 20+ nest raiders on it.

I agree with owlhoot on this. Turks have alot against them from the nest to maturity with predators. 

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[owlhoot]

Update on some earlier discussion in this thread.
Not necessarily about the turkey but nest raiders. Nest predator bounty program in S. Dakota


https://gfp.sd.gov/news/detail/1472/
.

[Meleagris gallopavo]

@eggshell "The big question is how do you  feed the world without today's highly efficient farming....there's no easy answer."

I honestly disagree with the statement, the problem is not that we do not have enough food, the simple fact is we waste way to much food and there really is more than enough for all. Corporate greed and also politics get in the way of getting food to many places, if not for this there would be enough many times over.

I agree with this statement to some degree.  We have a food distribution problem.  In an ideal world everyone would share food and not waste it.  We don't, nor have we ever lived in an ideal world.  Greed, laziness, politics et al are realities that stand in the way of ideals.  I'd have to see some data showing farming practices harm wild turkey populations.  Farming practices are different in different areas of the country.  Farming practices haven't changed a ton since turkeys made a big comeback.  If anything, growers are using more bird-friendly pesticides and conservation practices than they were during the phase when turkey populations were on the rise.  Growers have always been mowing hedgerows and ditchbanks.  Farmers being profitable is a delicate balance that fluctuates every year.  Our food production system is less than perfect but necessary.


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[PNWturkey]

Update on some earlier discussion in this thread.
Not necessarily about the turkey but nest raiders. Nest predator bounty program in S. Dakota


https://gfp.sd.gov/news/detail/1472/
.

Interesting, thanks for sharing!

To put this in perspective, South Dakota is 77,000 square miles.

The bounty program pays $10 per predator up to $500,000 max.  That is 50,000 nest predators.

That won't even reduce predators by 1 per square mile, over the scale of the state.  So, instead of 20 nest predators per square mile you'll have 19...

I'm not saying there won't be localized impacts though, or that over time this might start to bring the predator population down by removing breeding females.  Just saying that these states are huge, and a bounty program is unlikely to be large enough $ to be able to control predators on a statewide basis IMO...

[owlhoot]

Update on some earlier discussion in this thread.
Not necessarily about the turkey but nest raiders. Nest predator bounty program in S. Dakota


https://gfp.sd.gov/news/detail/1472/
.

Interesting, thanks for sharing!

To put this in perspective, South Dakota is 77,000 square miles.

The bounty program pays $10 per predator up to $500,000 max.  That is 50,000 nest predators.

That won't even reduce predators by 1 per square mile, over the scale of the state.  So, instead of 20 nest predators per square mile you'll have 19...

I'm not saying there won't be localized impacts though, or that over time this might start to bring the predator population down by removing breeding females.  Just saying that these states are huge, and a bounty program is unlikely to be large enough $ to be able to control predators on a statewide basis IMO...

I agree.
I think that it is a start.  Any bounty system in any state is a good one. It also shows that these bounty states or any state game departments that reports that predator problems are a major factor and need to be addressed.
As far as the South Dakota program we are talking about. What I like is the ETHICS SD program. "Educating youth on the importance of the trapline and wildlife management are key to ensuring our outdoor traditions remain strong for future generations," said Robling. "Trapping provides an experience to explore the outdoors and create lasting stories and memories while making a difference for managing wildlife in South Dakota."
Now hopefully those that participate won't stop just because the bounty for the year runs out. That some start hunting these predators too and as more people get involved the bounties grow.

One thing interesting is that in 2016-17 for the year they report that the nest predator harvest was around 34,000. In 2019 with the program start of April 1rst they had reached 50,000 by August 12.
Nesting seasons in there?

[eggshell]

I honestly disagree with the statement, the problem is not that we do not have enough food, the simple fact is we waste way to much food and there really is more than enough for all. Corporate greed and also politics get in the way of getting food to many places, if not for this there would be enough many times over.

We will respectfully disagree. I don't dispute that we have surplus food and distribution/wise use could be more efficient, but my impression was the discussion was over farming techniques, not production totals. Farmers have become more efficient and most of the land was cleared decades ago. Today's conservation programs like CRP and government set aside has taken millions of acres out of production. So conservation is part of the agriculture platform. As example,  My family's home farm is now all in CRP, 240 acres of wildlife habitat and zero crop production. Grain prices and world demand for U.S. farm commodities are high and where there's money to be made people will do what it takes to make it. I stand on my statement that it is not an easy fix. Many people complain when government pays farmers not to farm, but a farmer is not going to let ground stand idle when he can be making money off it instead of just paying high taxes on it. sadly wildlife is not near the front of the economic line. Development is swallowing up land in huge chunks and wildlife does even worse in urban paved suburbs. Within an hours drive of my home I can show you a few hundred acres that was farm and wildlife habitat 10 years ago that is all paved and new homes now, not to mention industrial build up.

We all complain about the government, but if it were not for government intervention we'd have way less habitat. That's not saying that more shouldn't be done, it should. However, it's still incumbent on us as outdoor enthusiast to support conservation organizations, advocates and vote for conservation positive candidates.  When it come to protecting wildlife we all need to have a common voice and defend everything from turkeys to deer to lizards.