Got an Osceola, I think

[greencop01]

Congrats on your tom. All toms taken by fair chase are trophies no matter where you shoot him.

[Wvdanimal]

Genetics or not, bottom line is it comes down to looks. Just as in the difference in white fan merriams vs dark easterns. I cringe when I see pics from some of these guys and their "osceolas" they just spent 3k on. Kill one in true deep s. Florida period! Forget about the "line" and go way south of that to be certain.

[guesswho]

Genetics or not, bottom line is it comes down to looks. Just as in the difference in white fan merriams vs dark easterns. I cringe when I see pics from some of these guys and their "osceolas" they just spent 3k on. Kill one in true deep s. Florida period! Forget about the "line" and go way south of that to be certain.

I've seen them from the swamps of Georgia and SC that checks every box for an Osceola as far as looks and characteristics, they just don't check the deep South Florida box.

[ccleroy]

Genetics or not, bottom line is it comes down to looks. Just as in the difference in white fan merriams vs dark easterns. I cringe when I see pics from some of these guys and their "osceolas" they just spent 3k on. Kill one in true deep s. Florida period! Forget about the "line" and go way south of that to be certain.

I've seen them from the swamps of Georgia and SC that checks every box for an Osceola as far as looks and characteristics, they just don't check the deep South Florida box.

Spot on


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[Sir-diealot]

I'm not sure if this wing pic is gonna come through or not, if so the osceola is on the left and a regular eastern from north florida is on the right
Geeeeez, it took me seven try's to download that pic and then it flipped it. I guess the Osceola is on the right now.

You had me wondering until I saw where you said it flipped it.

[Hobbes]

Congrats!  Good looking bird.

[Gooserbat]

If it's not then 1/2 of the so called merriam's aren't either.

[GobbleNut]

If it's not then 1/2 of the so called merriam's aren't either.

Yep, with a few exceptions being the isolated "sky island" mountain ranges in some of the western states, this is a fact.  Of course, the same can be said for any of the subspecies that have been introduced in places where they overlap and are not geographically isolated from each other. 

It's nice to chat about killing this or that subspecies and the whole "grand slam" stuff, but the truth is that actually accomplishing it with four "pure" representatives of the those four,...if indeed there are actually FOUR to start with,...is becoming less and less likely.   

[dublelung]

It doesn't really matter, call him whatever you want to. That's how most folks do it anyway. You killed a wild turkey gobbler and you should be proud of him.

[CALLM2U]

Genetics or not, bottom line is it comes down to looks. Just as in the difference in white fan merriams vs dark easterns. I cringe when I see pics from some of these guys and their "osceolas" they just spent 3k on. Kill one in true deep s. Florida period! Forget about the "line" and go way south of that to be certain.

I've seen them from the swamps of Georgia and SC that checks every box for an Osceola as far as looks and characteristics, they just don't check the deep South Florida box.

Agreed. 

[Rapscallion Vermilion]

I've seen them from the swamps of Georgia and SC that checks every box for an Osceola as far as looks and characteristics, they just don't check the deep South Florida box.

I was curious as to where the Osceola line came from.  It looks like it goes back to a 1955 study of gallinaceous birds in the United States by Aldrich and Duvall.  The line used today is at the southern edge of the Intergrade region for Easterns and Osceolas on their map.



Their map from 1955 shows observations of turkeys with Osceola characteristics well above the Florida state line.

I found more info on the history here:
http://goodhunt.blogs.theledger.com/24250/floridas-hybrid-gobbler/

I do wonder if the same study was done today, would they draw the same lines, would the Integrade region be even larger, or would they even try, given that Easterns and Osceolas are the only sub-species that can't be distinguished through DNA tests.

[Hobbes]

It's crazy the number of folks that get "butt hurt" over is it or isn't it one subspecies or another.  Call it gobbling ostrich for all I care.

[Yoder409]

There's an "official" line...........for whatever that's worth.

There can be a good many differences between each individual Eastern and Merriam's, too.  I guess until the biologists come up with a definitive hand guide on how many % the wing feathers have to be this color or or a Sherwin Williams chip-chart for what color the tips have to be................   

I shot two Florida birds within the last several day that were BOTH south of the "official" Osceola line.  One's got heavy Eastern influence.  One's classic Osceola.  NWTF and biologists recognize them as both being the same sub-species. 

What EV. 

I had a FREAKIN' BALL hunting them !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JeffC]

Congrats Don on a fine pair of Toms

[Mallard1897]

Nice bird congrats.

I always thought of the grand slam as being about the places you got to experience while chasing each subspecies just as much as the birds themselves. If I ever get the chance to pursue the slam, it won't matter much to me if his tail fan is buff or white or if he's wings barring is skinny or thick.

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