I have read the 5 pages of what is your state doing for turkeys. I am wanting to know if the decline in the turkey population has been researched and if the reasons are readily know. The reason I ask is because the quail population in my home state of Oklahoma has crashed and there doesn't seem to be an answer on why. Properties that use to hold numerous coveys are still the same but the quail are gone
Arkansas' decline has been attributed to numerous things, but the top reasons are:
1. Heavy late spring flooding for several years.
2. Shift in timber company land management (went from thinning until pines until saw logs to clear cutting for chipping).
3. Mixture of feral hogs and predator increase.
At least that's all I can think of right now.
Well since I'm an Okie as well I'll share what I think... poultry industry in the NE region, increased bear population in the SE region, hogs in general, and furbearers/ nest predators.
All of the above!
I should include resources and money not utilized in an efficient manner.
I do know that the two ice storms we had really did a number on our birds. Our county went from two birds to one
I'm going to say weather the pass 3 years in my part of Tennessee and predators
Many pieces to this pie. A couple pieces that you don't hear mentioned much is more hunters, the dumbing down of turkey hunting and less trigger control. Then you throw in a couple bad hatches and some of the other issues mentioned above and you have a problem, a problem that may be long term.
Quote from: guesswho on February 24, 2020, 09:21:20 PM
Many pieces to this pie. A couple pieces that you don't hear mentioned much is more hunters, the dumbing down of turkey hunting and less trigger control. Then you throw in a couple bad hatches and some of the other issues mentioned above and you have a problem, a problem that may be long term.
Yep, perfect storm.
I agree that it is a multi-faceted issue. Based on my understanding of those places that are having problems, I would speculate that changing climatic conditions resulting in increased spring flooding during nesting season and the "hog invasion" are the two primary culprits. ...Just speculating...
I believe hogs are the worst thing for a wild turkey here in Texas. The next I believe are climate variations (too little or too much water) and poor land management in the form of over grazing or extreme overgrowth in more heavily wooded areas. Also think on a nationwide basis that there is a lot of pressure put on birds, which in my opinion is hurting things in some areas more than a lot of hunters want to accept.
So what can we do? I am trapping the nest predators ie raccoons and possums. My state just this year is allowing year around raccoon trapping.
I believe the effects of Neonicotinoids should be further researched. I know Canadian research showed they can be lethal to adults turkeys. With planting and nesting seasons overlapping, one would think ingestion of neonics by a laying hen would detrimentally effect the unborn chicks. Not to mention the neonics killing insects that the chicks must have.
I would also like to see more research on avian diseases from commercial poultry, such as LPVD virus.
Big Ag has a lot of power though...
Timber harvest in the Southeast.
Lack of diversity in the gene pool , more susceptible to disease.
Living in SE Okla and turkey hunting here since 1980 I've never seen it as bad as it is now, except before turkeys were reintroduced.I voiced my concern several years ago to the states SE turkey biologist. At that time his thoughts were two years in a row of very dry summers which killed off bugs that young turkeys depend on to make it. Since then we've had an explosion of pigs and a thriving bear population (which seems to be the primary priority of the Oklahoma Depatment of Wildlife). Now we are having wet springs, and what I think is poor forest management. Add in that fur isn't worth much so not many trappers or coon hunters.I spoke to the biologist just a few weeks ago and he was honest enough to say that they don't know what is going on. They can speculate and on several things that add to the problem but certainly don't have answers as to what to do to reverse the trend.
Too many hunters ,too liberal bag limit, weather which led to bad hatches, reaping/fanning which has turned some bad to mediocre hunters into consistent killers and just overall poaching I believe I'm in Tn and I think our check in system allows people to get away without checking in birds. I know people will argue that isn't true. But that's just what I believe lol
Hogs and cold rainy springs
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Quote from: guesswho on February 24, 2020, 09:21:20 PM
Many pieces to this pie. A couple pieces that you don't hear mentioned much is more hunters, the dumbing down of turkey hunting and less trigger control. Then you throw in a couple bad hatches and some of the other issues mentioned above and you have a problem, a problem that may be long term.
its a bigger part than people are willing to admit. I went to a habit management area in Oregon this past season...Oregon is a bad example to purpose of the post but ill use it. The state or Oregon traps turkeys on private and releases them onto this habitat management area....I talked to the local ranger/officer whatever you call them that lived on and ran the habitat management area. He told me it is common for the locals who turkey hunt to literally kill every single gobbler on the property in the first week of the season maybe the second. you know a thousand acre block or so, 15 toms or so. 7 people show up to hunt in two weeks...and theres now 0 birds there...so they retrap every year and release every year. The guy literally told me that.....so when people think "people" are not part of the equation....they are wrong. Now I understand this is a bad example....but turkey hunting isn't even a thing in that part of the country compared to where im from....we have more turkeys....and a lot more turkey hunters.
I would say the only thing good about living in the liberal POS state of IL,that is not known as a turkey hunting state,is the turkey population is doing well.
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Quote from: zeke632 on February 24, 2020, 11:40:17 PM
Living in SE Okla and turkey hunting here since 1980 I've never seen it as bad as it is now, except before turkeys were reintroduced.I voiced my concern several years ago to the states SE turkey biologist. At that time his thoughts were two years in a row of very dry summers which killed off bugs that young turkeys depend on to make it. Since then we've had an explosion of pigs and a thriving bear population (which seems to be the primary priority of the Oklahoma Depatment of Wildlife). Now we are having wet springs, and what I think is poor forest management. Add in that fur isn't worth much so not many trappers or coon hunters.I spoke to the biologist just a few weeks ago and he was honest enough to say that they don't know what is going on. They can speculate and on several things that add to the problem but certainly don't have answers as to what to do to reverse the trend.
Being I hunt SE Oklahoma every spring, and have been on a handful of places both private and public, I'm curious to here what you think it is with the numbers? Me I honestly don't know. I do think hatch is some of it, coupled w/ poor habitat management in some places. I do think the hogs are getting out of hand. First year I hunted a particular WMA there were minimal to no signs of hogs, now they are all over it. I also think the numbers are getting really worked over by hunters compared to what they did 10-20 yrs ago. I do think there is a big part of hunting pressure in the equation, one place of private seems to have a very healthy turkey population while not far from it all the population seems moderate at best on state land.
That brings up another point. I feel like pressure takes in toll in ways some hunters don't expect. Yes it obviously kills off more birds, but I think there is some damage done to the number of nesting birds, nesting success, and the overall breeding cycle itself
Lots of different reasons are dwindling the turkey population. I feel all the things mentioned by you all contributed to a decline. Leaning really heavy towards the nest predators. That is coons, possums, and skunks
No fur market anymore and lack of hide hunters out there.Wet springs around here as well. No doubt the hog explosion for the states with hogs definitely a factor
Those dang things are hard on everything.
Quote from: Chad on February 24, 2020, 11:13:59 PM
I believe the effects of Neonicotinoids should be further researched. I know Canadian research showed they can be lethal to adults turkeys. With planting and nesting seasons overlapping, one would think ingestion of neonics by a laying hen would detrimentally effect the unborn chicks. Not to mention the neonics killing insects that the chicks must have.
I would also like to see more research on avian diseases from commercial poultry, such as LPVD virus.
Big Ag has a lot of power though...
I'd like to see that paper. The only one I could find showed that they could detect neonicotinoids in turkeys killed by hunters. I highly doubt it's very toxic to them. Neonics are only toxic to certain insects, not all of them. Those usually controlled by neonics are piercing-sucking insects like aphids, plant bugs, and thrips.
Quote from: dzsmith on February 25, 2020, 01:05:38 AM
its a bigger part than people are willing to admit. I went to a habit management area in Oregon this past season...Oregon is a bad example to purpose of the post but ill use it. The state or Oregon traps turkeys on private and releases them onto this habitat management area....I talked to the local ranger/officer whatever you call them that lived on and ran the habitat management area. He told me it is common for the locals who turkey hunt to literally kill every single gobbler on the property in the first week of the season maybe the second. you know a thousand acre block or so, 15 toms or so. 7 people show up to hunt in two weeks...and theres now 0 birds there...so they retrap every year and release every year. The guy literally told me that.....so when people think "people" are not part of the equation....they are wrong. Now I understand this is a bad example....but turkey hunting isn't even a thing in that part of the country compared to where im from....we have more turkeys....and a lot more turkey hunters.
Not trying to be contrary, but I have a really difficult time believing this story. Wild turkeys are just not that susceptible to hunting. Unless those turkeys are pen-raised birds and with some domestic blood in them, and are basically in a habitat that they cannot escape from, the likelihood that a handful of hunters could kill every bird is just not a plausible story.
Sounds to me like another tale to be added to the "turkey hunters urban legend" series to me. I would have to personally see that to believe it. Here's another much more plausible theory: some of those turkeys are being shot, some of them are adapting to hunting pressure and becoming more reclusive, and some of them are simply moving off of the property onto adjacent lands.
In many parts of the country, turkeys get hammered for months by hoards of really good turkey hunters and yet, there are still good numbers of turkeys there. As for the wildlife officer making that claim, I would be very suspicious of his credentials and knowledge about turkey hunting.
Quote from: Meleagris gallopavo on February 25, 2020, 07:54:49 AM
Quote from: Chad on February 24, 2020, 11:13:59 PM
I believe the effects of Neonicotinoids should be further researched. I know Canadian research showed they can be lethal to adults turkeys. With planting and nesting seasons overlapping, one would think ingestion of neonics by a laying hen would detrimentally effect the unborn chicks. Not to mention the neonics killing insects that the chicks must have.
I would also like to see more research on avian diseases from commercial poultry, such as LPVD virus.
Big Ag has a lot of power though...
I'd like to see that paper. The only one I could find showed that they could detect neonicotinoids in turkeys killed by hunters. I highly doubt it's very toxic to them. Neonics are only toxic to certain insects, not all of them. Those usually controlled by neonics are piercing-sucking insects like aphids, plant bugs, and thrips.
I think the concern is more about the use of these products in that they may be affecting reproduction more-so than their impact on adult birds. There has been concern for years about things like how they affect egg fertility and egg shell fragility.
Where I am from we haven't seen a decline yet. Really the opposite, maybe more turkeys than in a while. What has also been constant is the hogs, also more than ever. Down here the hogs and turkeyshave been plentiful together for years.
Quote from: cracker4112 on February 25, 2020, 08:50:45 AM
Where I am from we haven't seen a decline yet. Really the opposite, maybe more turkeys than in a while. What has also been constant is the hogs, also more than ever. Down here the hogs and turkeyshave been plentiful together for years.
Interesting. ...and surprising. Your situation just reinforces the need for serious research into the causes of declines in the areas it is happening. I would have bet money that there was a direct correlation between the increase in hogs and the decrease in turkeys pretty much everywhere across the country where hog numbers are increasing. The causes of your exception should be thoroughly investigated. It would be interesting to know how many other members here have experienced increases in both hogs and turkeys in their areas.
Quote from: Txag12 on February 25, 2020, 05:42:51 AM
Quote from: zeke632 on February 24, 2020, 11:40:17 PM
Living in SE Okla and turkey hunting here since 1980 I've never seen it as bad as it is now, except before turkeys were reintroduced.I voiced my concern several years ago to the states SE turkey biologist. At that time his thoughts were two years in a row of very dry summers which killed off bugs that young turkeys depend on to make it. Since then we've had an explosion of pigs and a thriving bear population (which seems to be the primary priority of the Oklahoma Depatment of Wildlife). Now we are having wet springs, and what I think is poor forest management. Add in that fur isn't worth much so not many trappers or coon hunters.I spoke to the biologist just a few weeks ago and he was honest enough to say that they don't know what is going on. They can speculate and on several things that add to the problem but certainly don't have answers as to what to do to reverse the trend.
Being I hunt SE Oklahoma every spring, and have been on a handful of places both private and public, I'm curious to here what you think it is with the numbers? Me I honestly don't know. I do think hatch is some of it, coupled w/ poor habitat management in some places. I do think the hogs are getting out of hand. First year I hunted a particular WMA there were minimal to no signs of hogs, now they are all over it. I also think the numbers are getting really worked over by hunters compared to what they did 10-20 yrs ago. I do think there is a big part of hunting pressure in the equation, one place of private seems to have a very healthy turkey population while not far from it all the population seems moderate at best on state land.
That brings up another point. I feel like pressure takes in toll in ways some hunters don't expect. Yes it obviously kills off more birds, but I think there is some damage done to the number of nesting birds, nesting success, and the overall breeding cycle itself
I'm like you, I don't know. Poor hatch over several years, poaching here is commonplace, poor timber management, nest predators....are some of the common ideas but those things are going on in places that aren't suffering a decline. The forest service has limited timber cutting to select cut for the most part and do some burning, but after a period of about 2 years those places become so thick due to the canopy opening up its almost impossible to get through much less turkey hunt it. I don't know. It just doesn't seem to be a priority to the Wildlife department either.
Quote from: drake799 on February 24, 2020, 11:44:00 PM
Too many hunters ,too liberal bag limit, weather which led to bad hatches, reaping/fanning which has turned some bad to mediocre hunters into consistent killers and just overall poaching I believe I'm in Tn and I think our check in system allows people to get away without checking in birds. I know people will argue that isn't true. But that's just what I believe lol
I agree 100%. I don't see or hear NEAR the birds I used to around here in West TN!
I've hunted in several states, but mainly hunted in FLA (public) and SC (private). I've seen declines in turkey population in both areas.
Florida is mainly, IMO, due to rampant overdevelopment of the state. I can drive you around the state and show you whole communities that have sprung up where I used to hunt, or drive by and see lots of turkeys. The state is growing in leaps and bounds. Also, there is very poor management of public lands due mainly to underfunding of FWC by the greedy politicians. There used to be food plots on WMA's, stocking of turkeys in areas with small populations, and burning programs for wildlife management. Now for the most part the burn programs are just for wildfire control. The crazy thing is the controlled burns they do are understaffed, and often turn into controlled wildfires themselves, leaving nothing but a charred landscape with dead trees. There is also no predator or feral hog control done. In Florida, hogs have overbred astronomically, and lay waste to lands. Coyotes, bobcats and other turkey killers and nest raiders are increasing in number every year.
In the Lowcountry of SC where I hunt, hogs are becoming more and more of a problem every year. SCDNR does nothing about it. The coyotes are out of control, and routinely stalk your gobbling birds or come to your calls. We see a lot more yotes on the prowl in the spring than during the fall. SCDNR encourages hunters to shoot every yote they see, and has a free lifetime license program for hunters that shoot tagged coyotes. I'm not certain that is an effective strategy though. There is a lot of logging in the Lowcountry, but they always replant, so it is cyclical, and moves the turkeys around to different properties more than it affects the population.
Other states I have hunted, I have noticed the more rural the area is, the greater number of turkeys there are. Less pressure + less killing = more turkeys.
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 25, 2020, 08:16:33 AM
Quote from: Meleagris gallopavo on February 25, 2020, 07:54:49 AM
Quote from: Chad on February 24, 2020, 11:13:59 PM
I believe the effects of Neonicotinoids should be further researched. I know Canadian research showed they can be lethal to adults turkeys. With planting and nesting seasons overlapping, one would think ingestion of neonics by a laying hen would detrimentally effect the unborn chicks. Not to mention the neonics killing insects that the chicks must have.
I would also like to see more research on avian diseases from commercial poultry, such as LPVD virus.
Big Ag has a lot of power though...
I'd like to see that paper. The only one I could find showed that they could detect neonicotinoids in turkeys killed by hunters. I highly doubt it's very toxic to them. Neonics are only toxic to certain insects, not all of them. Those usually controlled by neonics are piercing-sucking insects like aphids, plant bugs, and thrips.
I think the concern is more about the use of these products in that they may be affecting reproduction more-so than their impact on adult birds. There has been concern for years about things like how they affect egg fertility and egg shell fragility.
The papers I've read show potential for mutations in quail embryos. But the studies either used eggs that were directly injected or force fed to quail at doses far beyond what is actually used. I think the data produced thus far has not directly linked a correlation between neonicitinoid use and bird reproduction. I certainly think it's something to be further studied but I'm hesitant to point a finger just yet.
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Don't forget raptors. Hawks where decimated in 70's & 80's due to DDT and other pesticides. Over the years since these chemicals where banned hawks have made a great come back. They will take their share of chicks and poults.
The end (Reduction) of trapping has had a major impact on turkey nests. I think this has been the biggest impact on turkey nests in the northeast.
Where I hunt in SE Virginia and NE North Carolina i never saw a turkey or thought about turkey hunting until the NC Wildlife service began releasing them in the late 80s and early 90s and they made massive comeback. The first turkey track I saw was like seeing a unicorn. Now you can barely drive anywhere without seeing huge flocks of 30-50 birds from the road. We've got bobcats and coyotes a plenty but no hogs. We shoot all coyotes on sight and even bring folks in to kill them, but I haven't seen a dent in that population and I don't think we can kill them fast enough to do any good. We kill right many bobcats too. My son killed a bobcat this year. I also forgot to mention we have a bear infestation and we get as many as we want every season. I'm pretty sure the coyotes, bobcats, and bears like eating turkeys and or turkey eggs. I'm not so sure we have many turkey hunters. I know a lot of deer hunters, bear hunters and duck hunters that don't hunt turkeys. I also know that I don't hear about people killing jakes, unless a kid is allowed to shoot one. I see a ton of jakes, more jakes than gobblers. I see a lot of gobblers and literal seas of hens. I don't know why we have so many turkeys, but maybe you can glean something from this.
Quote from: Meleagris gallopavo on February 25, 2020, 07:54:49 AM
Quote from: Chad on February 24, 2020, 11:13:59 PM
I believe the effects of Neonicotinoids should be further researched. I know Canadian research showed they can be lethal to adults turkeys. With planting and nesting seasons overlapping, one would think ingestion of neonics by a laying hen would detrimentally effect the unborn chicks. Not to mention the neonics killing insects that the chicks must have.
I would also like to see more research on avian diseases from commercial poultry, such as LPVD virus.
Big Ag has a lot of power though...
I'd like to see that paper. The only one I could find showed that they could detect neonicotinoids in turkeys killed by hunters. I highly doubt it's very toxic to them. Neonics are only toxic to certain insects, not all of them. Those usually controlled by neonics are piercing-sucking insects like aphids, plant bugs, and thrips.
Not my post but here's an article that is specific to wild turkeys. While it's not an outright indictment, it suggests cause for concern especially with repeated ingestion of treated seed. Talks about the difficulty of detecting dead turkeys in the wild and some possible sub lethal effects. I kind of doubt it's all that is going on anywhere, however, I wouldn't rule it out as a possible contributor to declines in some localized situations.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5984634/
Great information cited, guys. Sounds like there is at least some research going on related to the impacts of agriculturally-used chemicals on wild turkeys. I would hope that correlation is being investigated thoroughly in the U.S..
The agricultural use of these chemicals is widespread across the country. There are obviously places where turkeys are doing well and others where they are not. That would personally make me believe that declines in turkey populations are not significantly correlated to the use of those chemicals.
A decade or so ago there was discussion about whether commercial feeds contained toxins that were impacting turkeys. There were suggestions that the increased use of feeders was potentially a major concern due to this. I haven't heard much about that recently, and because of that, I kind-of concluded that it was not a big deal. However, I have seen no definitive statement on this subject anywhere. Anybody heard or seen anything on that concern recently?
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 25, 2020, 08:07:02 AM
Quote from: dzsmith on February 25, 2020, 01:05:38 AM
its a bigger part than people are willing to admit. I went to a habit management area in Oregon this past season...Oregon is a bad example to purpose of the post but ill use it. The state or Oregon traps turkeys on private and releases them onto this habitat management area....I talked to the local ranger/officer whatever you call them that lived on and ran the habitat management area. He told me it is common for the locals who turkey hunt to literally kill every single gobbler on the property in the first week of the season maybe the second. you know a thousand acre block or so, 15 toms or so. 7 people show up to hunt in two weeks...and theres now 0 birds there...so they retrap every year and release every year. The guy literally told me that.....so when people think "people" are not part of the equation....they are wrong. Now I understand this is a bad example....but turkey hunting isn't even a thing in that part of the country compared to where im from....we have more turkeys....and a lot more turkey hunters.
Not trying to be contrary, but I have a really difficult time believing this story. Wild turkeys are just not that susceptible to hunting. Unless those turkeys are pen-raised birds and with some domestic blood in them, and are basically in a habitat that they cannot escape from, the likelihood that a handful of hunters could kill every bird is just not a plausible story.
Sounds to me like another tale to be added to the "turkey hunters urban legend" series to me. I would have to personally see that to believe it. Here's another much more plausible theory: some of those turkeys are being shot, some of them are adapting to hunting pressure and becoming more reclusive, and some of them are simply moving off of the property onto adjacent lands.
In many parts of the country, turkeys get hammered for months by hoards of really good turkey hunters and yet, there are still good numbers of turkeys there. As for the wildlife officer making that claim, I would be very suspicious of his credentials and knowledge about turkey hunting.
oh I don't disagree with you, they absolutely succumb to pressure or they will go extinct . But that's what the ranger told me, and him and his wife lived and worked there on the habitat management area. All I know is.....there's was no turkeys there by the third week of the season. Some on private , and you could pull in someone's drive way and they would stay in the yard. So it's a new level of "not so wild " of a turkey than I was used to. The point I was making was .... you can essentially kill them out, it can be done , because it has been done. You may not every single one , but you can do damage .....
Yes, all of the above. KS has cut limits but don't know if will help much as most didn't tag out when you could take 2 gobblers in spring & 4 any sex in fall. I will adjust but really miss the old days (1981-2010) but will continue to hunt. One bird for an out of stater it is expensive so hopefully many will stay home?
Wild Turkeys are susceptible to hunting pressure, just like any wild animal. It was market hunting and no season or bag limits that drove the Wild Turkey to near extinction. Anybody that can read should know that to be fact.
Hunting pressure is not the only problem and the pressure is definitely not the same everywhere. But there are a lot more than a handful of hunters in most areas and they can and do make an impact. I'd like to know where there are a lot of turkeys and hordes of good hunters that aren't making a difference in the population? That makes no sense. If the turkeys are managed right the population can be sustained and reduced limits or season can be part of the management. But at some point the number of hunters killing turkeys will outpace the turkeys ability to reproduce if unchecked.
Quote from: Dermott on March 01, 2020, 02:24:57 PM
Yes, all of the above. KS has cut limits but don't know if will help much as most didn't tag out when you could take 2 gobblers in spring & 4 any sex in fall. I will adjust but really miss the old days (1981-2010) but will continue to hunt. One bird for an out of stater it is expensive so hopefully many will stay home?
Yes KS is expensive for a 1 bird out of state licence. Might be 1 bird could slow down a bunch of residents too? That may help. The state sure let you kill em . All day hunts , 2 toms anytime even same day.
Hens in fall with dogs while pheasant hunting. Tied in with a very long season.
Will it help or not, who knows. At least their trying something.
I know that on the private I hunt I have gone from seeing 200 plus in group to having 30 to 40. Nothing has changed in land use or the number of hunters
Quote from: jgard on March 01, 2020, 03:11:45 PM
I know that on the private I hunt I have gone from seeing 200 plus in group to having 30 to 40. Nothing has changed in land use or the number of hunters
This is the exact I've seen and been told about all over . Biologists can't explain it . Some say chemicals in farm country areas may have changed but some areas don't have hardly any Ag.
Coon Coon and more Coons plus bobcats that weren't around years ago in some areas I hunted.
I know of a farm or two that was once as you describe , hundreds of birds on them.
One we hunted , 5 of us used too, now hasn't been hunted in 4 years . No noticeable increase. Another never was hunted and has no noticeable increase..She wouldn't allow any hunting.
Quote from: Dermott on March 01, 2020, 02:24:57 PM
Yes, all of the above. KS has cut limits but don't know if will help much as most didn't tag out when you could take 2 gobblers in spring & 4 any sex in fall. I will adjust but really miss the old days (1981-2010) but will continue to hunt. One bird for an out of stater it is expensive so hopefully many will stay home?
Its sad seeing what our state has become. Pressure has been off the chart. I do think it is funny that when we really liberalized it, went from one month to a 2 month spring season, and allowed 4 fall turkeys taken by any method but trot lining numbers started dropping.
I average 3 poachers a year and my property has 400 yards of frontage on the north side and 400 yards on the west side. And that is just while I am home. I woder what happens when I am not at home as well as in other rural areas of the state.
Hogs aren't good for turkeys but hogs infiltrated middle GA in the 80s and the turkey population boomed for years alongside deer and hogs.
The biggest difference that I see now from then and to now with the lower turkey population is a lot more coyotes, a lot more armadillos, lot more use of chicken litter, more fire ants and a heckuva a lot more hawks.
The oddest part of the population in middle GA decreasing so fast is that it is not just gobblers that are gone, it's all turkeys.
North GA and west GA is just the opposite. Strong stable if not growing population of birds.
I took this pic of 19 longbeards out of a group of 25 a couple weeks back and there is also a group of jakes with 18 birds in it.
I live in a suburban area in Stuart FL.....we have no logging. coyotes , farming, etc. going on...10 yrs.or so. we started to see a few turkeys here and there..after 5 yrs. it was common to see them often..then they vanished..almost at once. we do have coons. cats , fire ants ,and a lot of hawks but they would not deplete the population over nite...I have seen a large turkey population almost vanish in a short period in
areas in 3 different states , but slowly recover...only answer is a disease of sorts...all ground nesting birds are in sharp decline thru out the eastern states
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 26, 2020, 08:23:30 AM
Great information cited, guys. Sounds like there is at least some research going on related to the impacts of agriculturally-used chemicals on wild turkeys. I would hope that correlation is being investigated thoroughly in the U.S..
The agricultural use of these chemicals is widespread across the country. There are obviously places where turkeys are doing well and others where they are not. That would personally make me believe that declines in turkey populations are not significantly correlated to the use of those chemicals.
A decade or so ago there was discussion about whether commercial feeds contained toxins that were impacting turkeys. There were suggestions that the increased use of feeders was potentially a major concern due to this. I haven't heard much about that recently, and because of that, I kind-of concluded that it was not a big deal. However, I have seen no definitive statement on this subject anywhere. Anybody heard or seen anything on that concern recently?
The one thing about feeders being a issue that has kept me from buying in to it is that we have feeders all over texas. In fact some of the densest turkey populations exist in our state and I venture to say those areas you would be hard pressed to not find one feeder per 300-500 acres, if not several. I do understand how it can cause issues of one place of a lot of game intermingling causing a increase in transmission of disease. But with how much this occurs in our state and for how long it has I just can't see a strong correlation to population impacts
Talked to a Wildlife tech a couple years ago who lives and manages a WMA in Oklahoma and asked how many birds he thought was averaged taken on said WMA in a spring season . Limit is one bird . He replied twenty five checked in and probably another twenty five not checked . Have also heard from general people that hunting license is only for city people , and get to private hunting places for opener and locals already limited . People , not necessarily all turkey hunters , if you know what I mean , could very well be a part of the problem . Urban sprawl and acreages are carving habitat up daily . How many of you have lost hunting places ? I think habitat and weather condition play a big role .
I have heard some call it what I would call it "Death By a Thousand Cuts"
Quote from: dah on March 01, 2020, 10:50:44 PM
Talked to a Wildlife tech a couple years ago who lives and manages a WMA in Oklahoma and asked how many birds he thought was averaged taken on said WMA in a spring season . Limit is one bird . He replied twenty five checked in and probably another twenty five not checked . Have also heard from general people that hunting license is only for city people , and get to private hunting places for opener and locals already limited . People , not necessarily all turkey hunters , if you know what I mean , could very well be a part of the problem . Urban sprawl and acreages are carving habitat up daily . How many of you have lost hunting places ? I think habitat and weather condition play a big role .
there are many areas where the turkeys adapted to a suburban area and seem to do better than the ones in the deeper woods habitat...
Quote from: Dermott on March 01, 2020, 02:24:57 PM
Yes, all of the above. KS has cut limits but don't know if will help much as most didn't tag out when you could take 2 gobblers in spring & 4 any sex in fall. I will adjust but really miss the old days (1981-2010) but will continue to hunt. One bird for an out of stater it is expensive so hopefully many will stay home?
many many many Midwest outfits are a pump and dump operation. they don't care what you kill, and many people from my neck of the woods go there for that exact reason.......please don't anybody chime in and act like this don't happen especially in Kansas. ive seen it with my own eyes. its rural...youre not gonna get caught. zero consequences ....
Quote from: dzsmith on March 03, 2020, 02:45:51 AM
Quote from: Dermott on March 01, 2020, 02:24:57 PM
Yes, all of the above. KS has cut limits but don't know if will help much as most didn't tag out when you could take 2 gobblers in spring & 4 any sex in fall. I will adjust but really miss the old days (1981-2010) but will continue to hunt. One bird for an out of stater it is expensive so hopefully many will stay home?
many many many Midwest outfits are a pump and dump operation. they don't care what you kill, and many people from my neck of the woods go there for that exact reason.......please don't anybody chime in and act like this don't happen especially in Kansas. ive seen it with my own eyes. its rural...youre not gonna get caught. zero consequences ....
Part of the problem is the states that ran their bag limits up to "umpteen zillion" because turkeys were flourishing at one time. What that did was create an attitude in a bunch of hunters that the object of turkey hunting was to "kill the limit" rather than just go turkey hunting for the thrill of the experience. I have said this many times before: you don't have to kill every gobbler you call in just because it's legal.
Every year I hear guys bragging about killing several gobblers in a couple of days somewhere. Why? Couldn't they enjoy that hunt by killing one or two? ..And if not, they need to ask themselves why not.
Turkey hunting is not about a "body count" folks! Too many hunters having the attitude that "the limit is X, so I gotta kill X" is part of the reason we are having this discussion about why there aren't many gobblers around anymore in those places.
You don't prove you are a good turkey hunter solely by body counts. You prove it more importantly by being a conservationist, too,....and knowing when and where to stop shooting even though you haven't reached "the limit"!
A lot of it is the time we live in now. People want it and want it now. They love hero pics to put on facebook. Many only care about themselves and instant gratification. I still say the leading problem is habitat management with nest raiders and predators being a close second. I dont shoot jakes and I will not bash people who do legally. That being said , the best gobbling birds are 2 year olds. You flop jakes where you hunt then you will not have as many gobbling 2 year olds. Just my opinion.
That is very true. No need to look further than the state of waterfowl hunting to see that the only thing that matters is shooting limits
I live in northwest Oklahoma and the Rios out here are down considerably from 5 years ago. We still have birds, but they will be found in pockets of the best habitat available, not so widespread as in years past. I have seen a couple of groups of young birds in the last week which I was glad to see. I know we have had tremendous rain events the last couple of springs, I'm sure that didn't help. I don't think overgrazing is so critical on our birds, in fact, I think they do better where cattle are kept. Young poults have to be able to move through ground cover and hoof action from stock help make that possible. Birds are always around places cattle have been hayed during the winter, they seem to love to pick through that stuff.