Decline of turkey population

[Meleagris gallopavo]

Where I hunt in SE Virginia and NE North Carolina i never saw a turkey or thought about turkey hunting until the NC Wildlife service began releasing them in the late 80s and early 90s and they made massive comeback.  The first turkey track I saw was like seeing a unicorn.  Now you can barely drive anywhere without seeing huge flocks of 30-50 birds from the road.  We've got bobcats and coyotes a plenty but no hogs.  We shoot all coyotes on sight and even bring folks in to kill them, but I haven't seen a dent in that population and I don't think we can kill them fast enough to do any good.  We kill right many bobcats too.  My son killed a bobcat this year.  I also forgot to mention we have a bear infestation and we get as many as we want every season.  I'm pretty sure the coyotes, bobcats, and bears like eating turkeys and or turkey eggs.  I'm not so sure we have many turkey hunters.  I know a lot of deer hunters, bear hunters and duck hunters that don't hunt turkeys.  I also know that I don't hear about people killing jakes, unless a kid is allowed to shoot one.  I see a ton of jakes, more jakes than gobblers.  I see a lot of gobblers and literal seas of hens.  I don't know why we have so many turkeys, but maybe you can glean something from this.

[Spurs Up]

I believe the effects of Neonicotinoids should be further researched. I know Canadian research showed they can be lethal to adults turkeys. With planting and nesting seasons overlapping, one would think ingestion of neonics by a laying hen would detrimentally effect the unborn chicks. Not to mention the neonics killing insects that the chicks must have.

I would also like to see more research on avian diseases from commercial poultry, such as LPVD virus.

Big Ag has a lot of power though...

I'd like to see that paper.  The only one I could find showed that they could detect neonicotinoids in turkeys killed by hunters.  I highly doubt it's very toxic to them.  Neonics are only toxic to certain insects, not all of them.  Those usually controlled by neonics are piercing-sucking insects like aphids, plant bugs, and thrips.

Not my post but here's an article that is specific to wild turkeys. While it's not an outright indictment, it suggests cause for concern especially with repeated ingestion of treated seed.  Talks about the difficulty of detecting dead turkeys in the wild and some possible sub lethal effects. I kind of doubt it's all that is going on anywhere, however, I wouldn't rule it out as a possible contributor to declines in some localized situations.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5984634/

[GobbleNut]

Great information cited, guys.  Sounds like there is at least some research going on related to the impacts of agriculturally-used chemicals on wild turkeys.  I would hope that correlation is being investigated thoroughly in the U.S.. 

The agricultural use of these chemicals is widespread across the country. There are obviously places where turkeys are doing well and others where they are not.  That would personally make me believe that declines in turkey populations are not significantly correlated to the use of those chemicals.

A decade or so ago there was discussion about whether commercial feeds contained toxins that were impacting turkeys.  There were suggestions that the increased use of feeders was potentially a major concern due to this.  I haven't heard much about that recently, and because of that, I kind-of concluded that it was not a big deal.  However, I have seen no definitive statement on this subject anywhere.  Anybody heard or seen anything on that concern recently?

[dzsmith]

its a bigger part than people are willing to admit. I went to a habit management area in Oregon this past season...Oregon is a bad example to purpose of the post but ill use it. The state or Oregon traps turkeys on private and releases them onto this habitat management area....I talked to the local ranger/officer whatever you call them that lived on and ran the habitat management area. He told me it is common for the locals who turkey hunt to literally kill every single gobbler on the property in the first week of the season maybe the second. you know a thousand acre block or so, 15 toms or so. 7 people show up to hunt in two weeks...and theres now 0 birds there...so they retrap every year and release every year. The guy literally told me that.....so when people think "people" are not part of the equation....they are wrong. Now I understand this is a bad example....but turkey hunting isn't even a thing in that part of the country compared to where im from....we have more turkeys....and a lot more turkey hunters.

Not trying to be contrary, but I have a really difficult time believing this story.  Wild turkeys are just not that susceptible to hunting.  Unless those turkeys are pen-raised birds and with some domestic blood in them, and are basically in a habitat that they cannot escape from, the likelihood that a handful of hunters could kill every bird is just not a plausible story. 

Sounds to me like another tale to be added to the "turkey hunters urban legend" series to me.  I would have to personally see that to believe it.   Here's another much more plausible theory:  some of those turkeys are being shot, some of them are adapting to hunting pressure and becoming more reclusive, and some of them are simply moving off of the property onto adjacent lands. 

In many parts of the country, turkeys get hammered for months by hoards of really good turkey hunters and yet, there are still good numbers of turkeys there.  As for the wildlife officer making that claim, I would be very suspicious of his credentials and knowledge about turkey hunting.

oh I don't disagree with you, they absolutely succumb to pressure or they will go extinct . But that's what the ranger told me, and him and his wife lived and worked there on the habitat management area. All I know is.....there's was no turkeys there by the third week of the season. Some on private , and you could pull in someone's drive way and they would stay in the yard. So it's a new level of "not so wild " of a turkey than I was used to. The point I was making was .... you can essentially kill them out, it can be done , because it has been done. You may not every single one , but you can do damage .....

[Dermott]

Yes, all of the above. KS has cut limits but don't know if will help much as most didn't tag out when you could take 2 gobblers in spring & 4 any sex in fall. I will adjust but really miss the old days (1981-2010) but will continue to hunt. One bird for an out of stater it is expensive so hopefully many will stay home?

[LaLongbeard]

Wild Turkeys are susceptible to hunting pressure, just like any wild animal. It was market hunting and no season or bag limits that drove the Wild Turkey to near extinction. Anybody that can read should know that to be fact.
     Hunting pressure is not the only problem and the pressure is definitely not the same everywhere. But there are a lot more than a handful of hunters in most areas and they can and do make an impact. I'd like to know where there are a lot of turkeys and hordes of good hunters that aren't making a difference in the population? That makes no sense. If the turkeys are managed right the population can be sustained and reduced limits or season can be part of the management. But at some point the number of hunters killing turkeys will outpace the turkeys ability to reproduce if unchecked.

[owlhoot]

Yes, all of the above. KS has cut limits but don't know if will help much as most didn't tag out when you could take 2 gobblers in spring & 4 any sex in fall. I will adjust but really miss the old days (1981-2010) but will continue to hunt. One bird for an out of stater it is expensive so hopefully many will stay home?

Yes KS is expensive for a 1 bird out of state licence.  Might be 1 bird could slow down a bunch of residents too?  That may help.  The state sure let you kill em . All day hunts , 2 toms anytime even same day.
Hens in fall with dogs while pheasant hunting. Tied in with a very long season.
Will it help or not, who knows. At least their trying something.

[jgard]

I know that on the private I hunt I have gone from seeing 200 plus in group to having 30 to 40. Nothing has changed in land use or the number of hunters

[owlhoot]

I know that on the private I hunt I have gone from seeing 200 plus in group to having 30 to 40. Nothing has changed in land use or the number of hunters

This is the exact I've seen and been told about all over . Biologists can't explain it . Some say chemicals in farm country areas may have changed but some areas don't have hardly any Ag.
Coon Coon and more Coons plus bobcats that weren't around years ago in some areas I hunted.
I know of a farm or two that was once as you describe , hundreds of birds on them.
One we hunted , 5 of us used too, now hasn't been hunted in 4 years . No noticeable increase. Another never was hunted and has no noticeable increase..She wouldn't allow any hunting.

[nativeks]

Yes, all of the above. KS has cut limits but don't know if will help much as most didn't tag out when you could take 2 gobblers in spring & 4 any sex in fall. I will adjust but really miss the old days (1981-2010) but will continue to hunt. One bird for an out of stater it is expensive so hopefully many will stay home?

Its sad seeing what our state has become. Pressure has been off the chart. I do think it is funny that when we really liberalized it, went from one month to a 2 month spring season, and allowed 4 fall turkeys taken by any method but trot lining numbers started dropping.

I average 3 poachers a year and my property has 400 yards of frontage on the north side and 400 yards on the west side. And that is just while I am home. I woder what happens when I am not at home as well as in other rural areas of the state.

[Sixes]

Hogs aren't good for turkeys but hogs infiltrated middle GA in the 80s and the turkey population boomed for years alongside deer and hogs.

The biggest difference that I see now from then and to now with the lower turkey population is a lot more coyotes, a lot more armadillos, lot more use of chicken litter, more fire ants and a heckuva a lot more hawks.

The oddest part of the population in middle GA decreasing so fast is that it is not just gobblers that are gone, it's all turkeys.

North GA and west GA is just the opposite. Strong stable if not growing population of birds.

I took this pic of 19 longbeards out of a group of 25 a couple weeks back and there is also a group of jakes with 18 birds in it.

[saltysenior]

I live in a suburban area in Stuart FL.....we have no logging. coyotes , farming, etc. going on...10 yrs.or so. we started to see a few turkeys here and there..after 5 yrs. it was common to see them often..then they vanished..almost at once. we do have coons. cats , fire ants ,and a lot of hawks but they would not deplete the population over nite...I have seen a large turkey population almost vanish in a short period in
areas in 3 different states , but slowly recover...only answer is a disease of sorts...all ground nesting birds are in sharp decline thru out the eastern states

[Txag12]

Great information cited, guys.  Sounds like there is at least some research going on related to the impacts of agriculturally-used chemicals on wild turkeys.  I would hope that correlation is being investigated thoroughly in the U.S.. 

The agricultural use of these chemicals is widespread across the country. There are obviously places where turkeys are doing well and others where they are not.  That would personally make me believe that declines in turkey populations are not significantly correlated to the use of those chemicals.

A decade or so ago there was discussion about whether commercial feeds contained toxins that were impacting turkeys.  There were suggestions that the increased use of feeders was potentially a major concern due to this.  I haven't heard much about that recently, and because of that, I kind-of concluded that it was not a big deal.  However, I have seen no definitive statement on this subject anywhere.  Anybody heard or seen anything on that concern recently?

The one thing about feeders being a issue that has kept me from buying in to it is that we have feeders all over texas. In fact some of the densest turkey populations exist in our state and I venture to say those areas you would be hard pressed to not find one feeder per 300-500 acres, if not several. I do understand how it can cause issues of one place of a lot of game intermingling causing a increase in transmission of disease. But with how much this occurs in our state and for how long it has I just can't see a strong correlation to population impacts

[dah]

  Talked to a Wildlife tech a couple years ago who lives and manages a WMA in Oklahoma and asked how many birds he thought was averaged taken on said WMA in a spring season . Limit is one bird .  He replied twenty five checked in and probably another twenty five not checked . Have also heard from general people that hunting license is only for city people , and get to private hunting places for opener and locals already limited . People , not necessarily all turkey hunters , if you know what I mean , could very well be a part of the problem . Urban sprawl and acreages are carving habitat up daily . How many of you have lost hunting places ? I think habitat and weather condition play a big role .

[J. Adams]

I have heard some call it what I would call it "Death By a Thousand Cuts"