Shootem's overcalling thread got me to thinking. Is there such a thing as a call shy bird, or is it just another excuse like henned up?
Quote from: guesswho on February 10, 2011, 05:54:52 PM
Shootem's overcalling thread got me to thinking. Is there such a thing as a call shy bird, or is it just another excuse liked henned up?
Myth.
Another excuse. "Call smart" maybe. Guess that's an excuse to.
Quote from: CASH on February 10, 2011, 05:59:43 PM
Another excuse. "Call smart" maybe. Guess that's an excuse to.
More like
People shy.
Quote from: Flydown on February 10, 2011, 06:00:43 PM
Quote from: CASH on February 10, 2011, 05:59:43 PM
Another excuse. "Call smart" maybe. Guess that's an excuse to.
More like People shy.
Yeah, that's a better way to put it.
Quote from: Flydown on February 10, 2011, 06:00:43 PM
Quote from: CASH on February 10, 2011, 05:59:43 PM
Another excuse. "Call smart" maybe. Guess that's an excuse to.
More like People shy.
:z-winnersmiley: :z-winnersmiley: :z-winnersmiley:
Quote from: guesswho on February 10, 2011, 05:54:52 PM
Shootem's overcalling thread got me to thinking. Is there such a thing as a call shy bird, or is it just another excuse like henned up?
I heard people say that bird is call shy and when i was just starting out turkey hunting i believed it but i beg to differ anymore.Its henned up like u said. :newmascot:
if the caller sounds like a hen the Gobbler does not think "is this a hen or a person trying to sound like a hen" they dont have the brain to figure things like that. but i do believe if a bird is fooled with enough he will not go to any call human or turkey. i also believe that henned up birds get the title of call shy
He's just not desperate. He wants the hen (or whatever is making the hen sound) to come to him. That's all. If he knew it was a person making the sound, he'd be more evasive than just hanging up and casually wandering off.
If I was a boss gobbler I would be call shy
They know the hens just want some so I would walk out there a gobble till they all came to me.
So I wouldn't say there call shy they are just too good to go to the hen lol.
Quote from: stinkpickle on February 10, 2011, 06:40:31 PM
He's just not desperate. He wants the hen (or whatever is making the hen sound) to come to him. That's all. If he knew it was a person making the sound, he'd be more evasive than just hanging up and casually wandering off.
I believe this more like it. Last year for one example.I chased one on a piece of property that only I have access to, so no hunter pressure other than me. Early in the season when the hens were around he wouldn't come to anything unless he saw a hen but he was usually with them. I finally caught him late in the season alone and I couldn't call to him enough and he sure wasn't shy.
Quote from: VAHUNTER on February 10, 2011, 06:17:18 PM
if the caller sounds like a hen the Gobbler does not think "is this a hen or a person trying to sound like a hen" they dont have the brain to figure things like that. but i do believe if a bird is fooled with enough he will not go to any call human or turkey. i also believe that henned up birds get the title of call shy
well said, ilove when people say that turkey is doing this or that to me :TooFunny: turkeys are just doing what turkeys do, you can either figure them out and kill them or you cant :cross2:
x2
Quote from: CASH on February 10, 2011, 06:01:39 PM
Quote from: Flydown on February 10, 2011, 06:00:43 PM
Quote from: CASH on February 10, 2011, 05:59:43 PM
Another excuse. "Call smart" maybe. Guess that's an excuse to.
More like People shy.
Yeah, that's a better way to put it.
Ill go a step further and say "predator shy" I hunt a piece that is chock full of yotes.. You cant walk on this place without hearing or seeing a yote and the birds are quiet.. The place receives no more pressure than elsewhere I hunt..
I agree with above if you sound like a turkey their is no such thing as a call shy turkey.. Turkeys communicate 12 months a year and we step in there world 30-45 days a year..
I agree with the "people" shy.A turkey aint got enough brain in his head to figure out if thats somebody calling or a hen makin the noise.If they could figure that out we would never kill one.I think "call shy" has become the common excuse for giving up too soon or too easy.
No such thing...birds just react to the current situation at hand. Sometime they like aggressive calling and the next day they don't. Same thing applies to decoys
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When I hear "call shy" I think of duck hunting. A duck isn't call shy, they just prefer different things on different days. Every day in the woods is different and you have to adjust to that situation. Same with decoys, camo, possition, and aggression. Same thing with a turkey. I believe guesswho said it best...Adapt and Kill!!!
Quote from: stinkpickle on February 10, 2011, 06:40:31 PM
He's just not desperate. He wants the hen (or whatever is making the hen sound) to come to him. That's all. If he knew it was a person making the sound, he'd be more evasive than just hanging up and casually wandering off.
i agree 100%.
Quote from: ThicketThrasher on February 10, 2011, 08:44:34 PM
Quote from: stinkpickle on February 10, 2011, 06:40:31 PM
He's just not desperate. He wants the hen (or whatever is making the hen sound) to come to him. That's all. If he knew it was a person making the sound, he'd be more evasive than just hanging up and casually wandering off.
i agree 100%.
Totally missed Stinkys post.. But its sho nuff correct..
"Ill be right there bubba, gonna go gobble at this hunter a few more times to get under his skin"
Quote from: ThicketThrasher on February 10, 2011, 08:44:34 PM
Quote from: stinkpickle on February 10, 2011, 06:40:31 PM
He's just not desperate. He wants the hen (or whatever is making the hen sound) to come to him. That's all. If he knew it was a person making the sound, he'd be more evasive than just hanging up and casually wandering off.
i agree 100%.
thats about right. i have hunted birds early and late that seemed to hate me and anything i tried to do that i thought would bring them in. give them 2 or 3 days and have them about to break there own neck trying to get to me. it all depends on how lonely the bird is sometimes
I agree with what many others have said. Basically many times a gobbler has no need for another hen. The hens with him sure don't want any competition so they carry the gobbler the other way.
There are also times when he has feeding on his mind and nothing else.
These situations make me start thinking outside box.
people shy for sure. I think if you sit on the side of a road and call to birds all year than you hunt those same birds. And your close to the location you did your off season calling than ya I guess their not gonna come running. I think its best to be in the spots they like to head to than to just sit anywhere and try to call them in. Just my 2 cents.
Usually henned up or could be people pressure.
I don't think a turkey has the mental capacity to be call shy. Don't think they have that kind of memory. More likely they are hen'ed up and not willing to leave what they already have.
I don't believe there are such things as call shy birds. It just depends on what the hens are doing. You will hear more people say that the birds are more call shy during the peak breeding time, just because the birds stop gobbling at everything they hear and the hens are with them, don't mean you can't kill them. Most of the time the birds have a struttin zone they like and will stay in that area for most of the day. Do your homework and find out where those areas are and you will be carrying another one out of the woods. JMO.
Quote from: guesswho on February 10, 2011, 05:54:52 PM
Shootem's overcalling thread got me to thinking. Is there such a thing as a call shy bird, or is it just another excuse like henned up?
Thats a tough one. I do agree they can get people shy and hens can make them seem call shy. I wouldn't really use the term call shy since I dont think there going to run from someone or a real hen that sounds like a turkey. I also believe that some, though very few, gobblers are hermits and dont participate in the breeding ritual. Just another thing in the turkey world that we will never know for sure.
To much hunting pressure maybe, but if your singing the right song he will fall in love with you. :z-flirtysmile3:
I hear what ya'll say about being people shy which is just another name for call shy BUT, we have an old bird were we hunt that we call the "old man". He is what we call a hermit tom, stays all by him self till spring then you see him with 4 or 5 hens and he stays with them for a long time. You can hear him gobble in the mournings and as soon as you hit a call, any call he shuts up, he is even decoy smart, I've seen this bird after fly down go 100yrds out of his way from a call and want even look at a decoy.
Quote from: unclerick on February 10, 2011, 10:44:33 PM
I hear what ya'll say about being people shy which is just another name for call shy
I really dont see these two as the same
To me its a hard call, I know turkeys dont have the capacity for intelectual thought but I've had a lotta birds sneak in on me while I was call'n, never heard a word from them and when I thought ther aint nutthin gonna show up I stand up and the gobbler takes off, he snuck in for some reason or another.
It seems even fish will get the sore mouth after a while and you have to give'm a rest, change fish'n plugs and catch a few more, coyotes get wise fast but I think ther smarter than some people I know.
Just a thought.
Call shy, turkey or ducks is a myth, in my opinion. Birds get suspicious and spooky, or lack motivation, sometimes for a variety of reasons (hunting pressure, weather, availability of hens, etc) and you just have to adjust your style a little bit when they get that way. Sometimes that just means doing something a little different than ever other hunter in the woods.
To me a bird coming in quiet is not call shy, that is just a gobbler trying to sneak in and get some without risking a fight, in other words turkeys being turkeys. Call shy to me implies that birds a "spooked" or get nervous at the sound of a call. Maybe, I'm misinterpreting the term though.
We've been down this road before. You can call it any darn thing you want, "people shy", "call shy", "turkey sound shy"....you name it,...it is all semantics. It is a fact of science and biology that organisms...all of them....learn thru a process called positive and negative reinforcement. Turkeys will learn to avoid turkey-like sounds if they have had enough negative experiences with them to make them realize that they may be in danger by approaching those sounds. It has nothing to do with anybody's turkey calling ability. It is an evolutionary survival trait of all organisms.
Having made that blunt statement, there are, indeed, many turkeys out there that are mistakenly identified as being "call shy et.al" because, for some reason, they did not want to come to a certain call at a certain time at a certain place on a certain day. There are, however, turkeys in many places that have been hunted enough and experienced enough negative reinforcement that they will absolutely not approach any turkey sound, whether it is man-made or otherwise. For anybody to say otherwise, there is an organization that was made just for them...it called the "Flat Earth Society"...better join up!
Jim
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 10, 2011, 11:20:09 PMWe've been down this road before. You can call it any darn thing you want, "people shy", "call shy", "turkey sound shy"....you name it,...it is all semantics. It is a fact of science and biology that organisms...all of them....learn thru a process called positive and negative reinforcement. Turkeys will learn to avoid turkey-like sounds if they have had enough negative experiences with them to make them realize that they may be in danger by approaching those sounds. It has nothing to do with anybody's turkey calling ability. It is an evolutionary survival trait of all organisms.
Having made that blunt statement, there are, indeed, many turkeys out there that are mistakenly identified as being "call shy et.al" because, for some reason, they did not want to come to a certain call at a certain time at a certain place on a certain day. There are, however, turkeys in many places that have been hunted enough and experienced enough negative reinforcement that they will absolutely not approach any turkey sound, whether it is man-made or otherwise. For anybody to say otherwise, there is an organization that was made just for them...it called the "Flat Earth Society"...better join up!
Jim
Your evolution and survival of the fittest idea makes sense but I do have one question...how does that tom breed and pass on his "newly found, favorable" traits to the next generation?
Every group of hens I've ever seen is constantly making noise. A non-communicating turkey is a dead turkey IMHO
sent from my Evo using Tapatalk
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 10, 2011, 11:20:09 PM
We've been down this road before. You can call it any darn thing you want, "people shy", "call shy", "turkey sound shy"....you name it,...it is all semantics. It is a fact of science and biology that organisms...all of them....learn thru a process called positive and negative reinforcement. Turkeys will learn to avoid turkey-like sounds if they have had enough negative experiences with them to make them realize that they may be in danger by approaching those sounds. It has nothing to do with anybody's turkey calling ability. It is an evolutionary survival trait of all organisms.
Having made that blunt statement, there are, indeed, many turkeys out there that are mistakenly identified as being "call shy et.al" because, for some reason, they did not want to come to a certain call at a certain time at a certain place on a certain day. There are, however, turkeys in many places that have been hunted enough and experienced enough negative reinforcement that they will absolutely not approach any turkey sound, whether it is man-made or otherwise. For anybody to say otherwise, there is an organization that was made just for them...it called the "Flat Earth Society"...better join up!
Jim
soooo, your saying as the years go buy that those smart turkeys are passing on genes to where we will no longer be able to turkey hunt because all the dumb ones will have died out and turkeys will have become unkillable :TooFunny:
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 10, 2011, 11:20:09 PM
We've been down this road before. You can call it any darn thing you want, "people shy", "call shy", "turkey sound shy"....you name it,...it is all semantics. It is a fact of science and biology that organisms...all of them....learn thru a process called positive and negative reinforcement. Turkeys will learn to avoid turkey-like sounds if they have had enough negative experiences with them to make them realize that they may be in danger by approaching those sounds. It has nothing to do with anybody's turkey calling ability. It is an evolutionary survival trait of all organisms.
I cannot see this, if the above were true and sound was the instigator of these negative reactions, at the first yelp of the morning from nearby roosted hens a gobbler would pitch in the opposite direction and head for the hills regardless if the hen was visual or not..
Also if the above was true the gobbler and hen interaction for 12 months a year would far out weigh the 30-45 days a year a field by hunters regardless of pressure..
Quote from: ClayW on February 11, 2011, 12:15:16 AM
...Your evolution and survival of the fittest idea makes sense but I do have one question...how does that tom breed and pass on his "newly found, favorable" traits to the next generation?...
The hens would go to him. He could let them stand at the opposite end of the field and yelp all day long if they wanted to.
Quote from: stinkpickle on February 11, 2011, 07:01:35 AM
Quote from: ClayW on February 11, 2011, 12:15:16 AM
...Your evolution and survival of the fittest idea makes sense but I do have one question...how does that tom breed and pass on his "newly found, favorable" traits to the next generation?...
The hens would go to him. He could let them stand at the opposite end of the field and yelp all day long if they wanted to.
agreed. thats the way it is suppose to work. when a Gobbling Tom comes to a call he is doing something that he is not suppose to do. if you are working a Tom that has a hen nearby that he knows is there and he is satisfied with that . he will not come. if you have a Tom with hens and he wants to collect another or in most cases the hens want to see who the new girl is and he follows . thats when you can pull the group to you.if he is alone and is really wanting company you have a suicide Tom. it all boils down to the indivisual Tom and the attitude that he has at that moment
Quote from: VAHUNTER on February 11, 2011, 07:28:51 AM
Quote from: stinkpickle on February 11, 2011, 07:01:35 AM
Quote from: ClayW on February 11, 2011, 12:15:16 AM
...Your evolution and survival of the fittest idea makes sense but I do have one question...how does that tom breed and pass on his "newly found, favorable" traits to the next generation?...
The hens would go to him. He could let them stand at the opposite end of the field and yelp all day long if they wanted to.
agreed. thats the way it is suppose to work. when a Gobbling Tom comes to a call he is doing something that he is not suppose to do. if you are working a Tom that has a hen nearby that he knows is there and he is satisfied with that . he will not come. if you have a Tom with hens and he wants to collect another or in most cases the hens want to see who the new girl is and he follows . thats when you can pull the group to you.if he is alone and is really wanting company you have a suicide Tom. it all boils down to the indivisual Tom and the attitude that he has at that moment
I agree but to say that same tom will knowingly ignore turkey sound s is kind of silly
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"to say that (a) tom will knowingly ignore turkey sounds is kind of silly"---quote
You're right, turkeys don't "ignore" anything. What they do is respond to stimuli based on their learned experiences with those, or similar, stimuli. If a gobbler approaches sounds that he expects are from another turkey, and he has a negative experience with it....i.e. he gets shot at, or otherwise gets the bejesus scared out of him,....he learns from that experience that perhaps he should be careful about approaching turkey sounds. If he does it again, and survives, he learns a little more,...until he reaches a point where he will not approach turkey sounds.
Yes, all turkeys hear turkey sounds every day of their lives. They do not ignore them, but they will adapt behavior, based on their experiences with those sounds to try to insure their own survival. To take it one step further, turkeys can learn to avoid turkey sounds and learn to avoid approaching other turkeys that they see (i.e.--turkey decoys) through the same learning process.
In the end, some gobblers, if they want to have turkey companionship, will stand where they feel safe and wait for live turkey hens to come to them. They will gobble and strut to turkey sounds in the distance, thinking perhaps those sounds are coming from a real, live turkey hen, but they will not closely approach those sounds. If the turkey sounds approach them, and they do not see what they identify as a real, live turkey, they will eventually move away, possibly to another spot a safe distance away, and start the process over again.
Anybody here that has hunted lots of years on hard-hunted public (or private) lands has seen this behavior. It is just a reality of animal behavior, nothing more...and nothing less.
Jim
Gobblenut, you got to quit staying at that Holiday Inn. ;D
I think turkeys are NTWF shy. I ain't never seen one around property that has a NWTF sign.
Quote from: Sherrell on February 10, 2011, 06:01:52 PM
Quote from: Flydown on February 10, 2011, 06:00:43 PM
Quote from: CASH on February 10, 2011, 05:59:43 PM
Another excuse. "Call smart" maybe. Guess that's an excuse to.
More like People shy.
:z-winnersmiley: :z-winnersmiley: :z-winnersmiley:
Thats the best way of puttin it!
Quote from: guesswho on February 11, 2011, 03:07:26 PM
Gobblenut, you got to quit staying at that Holiday Inn. ;D
I think turkeys are NTWF shy. I ain't never seen one around property that has a NWTF sign.
:TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
I knew it was just a matter of time, Ronnie! :D
I have always heard of guys saying they love a 2 year old bird. Is that because they are easier to call in, than a 3 year old bird?
Does this mean the older a bird gets, the smarter it is, call smart?
Quote from: bornagain64 on February 11, 2011, 04:04:11 PM
I have always heard of guys saying they love a 2 year old bird. Is that because they are easier to call in, than a 3 year old bird?
Does this mean the older a bird gets, the smarter it is, call smart?
I think flock dynamics has more to do with the ease of calling in a said bird.. Killed 4 year olds that acted like 2 year olds and 2 year olds that I swore were four year olds..
Birds dont get smarter they get more stubborn
Quote from: bornagain64 on February 11, 2011, 04:04:11 PM
I have always heard of guys saying they love a 2 year old bird. Is that because they are easier to call in, than a 3 year old bird?
Does this mean the older a bird gets, the smarter it is, call smart?
People kill more two year olds than three or four year olds because there are more of them at the start of a season, thus the train of thought two year olds are easier. I bet most of those three and four year olds they don't kill, are actually two year olds.
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 11, 2011, 03:51:32 PM
Quote from: guesswho on February 11, 2011, 03:07:26 PM
Gobblenut, you got to quit staying at that Holiday Inn. ;D
I think turkeys are NTWF shy. I ain't never seen one around property that has a NWTF sign.
:TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
I knew it was just a matter of time, Ronnie! :D
If I was a turkey I'd be pretty easy to kill ;D
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 11, 2011, 09:25:02 AM
"to say that (a) tom will knowingly ignore turkey sounds is kind of silly"---quote
You're right, turkeys don't "ignore" anything. What they do is respond to stimuli based on their learned experiences with those, or similar, stimuli. If a gobbler approaches sounds that he expects are from another turkey, and he has a negative experience with it....i.e. he gets shot at, or otherwise gets the bejesus scared out of him,....he learns from that experience that perhaps he should be careful about approaching turkey sounds. If he does it again, and survives, he learns a little more,...until he reaches a point where he will not approach turkey sounds.
Yes, all turkeys hear turkey sounds every day of their lives. They do not ignore them, but they will adapt behavior, based on their experiences with those sounds to try to insure their own survival. To take it one step further, turkeys can learn to avoid turkey sounds and learn to avoid approaching other turkeys that they see (i.e.--turkey decoys) through the same learning process.
In the end, some gobblers, if they want to have turkey companionship, will stand where they feel safe and wait for live turkey hens to come to them. They will gobble and strut to turkey sounds in the distance, thinking perhaps those sounds are coming from a real, live turkey hen, but they will not closely approach those sounds. If the turkey sounds approach them, and they do not see what they identify as a real, live turkey, they will eventually move away, possibly to another spot a safe distance away, and start the process over again.
Anybody here that has hunted lots of years on hard-hunted public (or private) lands has seen this behavior. It is just a reality of animal behavior, nothing more...and nothing less.
Jim
Gobblenut, I have always thought it was a Gobbler's nature to let the hens come to him if he could? Never thought of that as being call shy...just the ways older mature birds get after getting whipped a few times when they tried to sneak in on a hen that was with a dominant bird..... I always thought turkey hunting was tough cause a lot of the time you're trying to get a Gobbler to go against his nature, meaning get him to come to a call rather than wait on a hen to come to him.
Like I said earlier I always associate the term "call shy" as meaning they avoid, or retreat from calling...at least some some sort of avoidance. But, I think your learning model means that a turkey has to associate the sound of a turkey call with the "BOOM" of a shotgun to make them retreat? I mean, isn't there a slew of other things they could associate with the "BOOM" of a shotgun? Of course the association is easy if every time they run to something that sounds like a hen they get shot at, how many birds really get shot at multiple times and live to tell the tale? Still, assuming they do learn to avoid the sounds, the critical question is how long to they retain what they learn? I am just wondering really.
I am not saying you aren't right, I am just saying that I wonder if sometimes we, as hunters, don't give these birds a little too much credit for intelligence, and not enough for simply being suspicious of everything.
Another interesting point...ever notice that if you shoot and kill a bird in flock, sometimes the other toms, instead of running, will jump on him?
Quote from: gordongekko on February 11, 2011, 05:51:25 PM
just saying that I wonder if sometimes we, as hunters, don't give these birds a little too much credit for intelligence, and not enough for simply being suspicious of everything.
:thanks:
Quote from: gordongekko on February 11, 2011, 05:51:25 PM
But, I think your learning model means that a turkey has to associate the sound of a turkey call with the "BOOM" of a shotgun to make them retreat? I mean, isn't there a slew of other things they could associate with the "BOOM" of a shotgun? Of course the association is easy if every time they run to something that sounds like a hen they get shot at, how many birds really get shot at multiple times and live to tell the tale? Still, assuming they do learn to avoid the sounds, the critical question is how long to they retain what they learn? I am just wondering really.
Must not be real long.. Cant count the number of times I have called up a bachelor group whacked one while his buddy is standing close enough to feel the percussion and see the shot smacking his buddy in the face. Only to go to the same spot the next day and call up his buddie-s and whack them with the same call..
Quote from: guesswho on February 11, 2011, 05:54:20 PM
Quote from: gordongekko on February 11, 2011, 05:51:25 PM
just saying that I wonder if sometimes we, as hunters, don't give these birds a little too much credit for intelligence, and not enough for simply being suspicious of everything.
:thanks:
Then again, perhaps they are smarter than we think and can learn to associate danger with things that happen around them. Could it be that we do not give them enough credit for having survival traits that could be referred to as "intelligence"? Once again, scientific studies have shown conclusively that all sorts of animals can, indeed, adapt behavior than can be described as learned.
Do I think that a gobbler hears a turkey call and consciously says to himself, "hmmm, that might be a hunter so I'm not going to go over there?" No. I agree, that would be silly to think that. What I do think is that any gobbler who experiences enough negative consequences from its actions will have an internal survival mechanism develop that keeps it from approaching whatever has caused that avoidance reaction. It could be a turkey call, a coyote howl, the sound of a vehicle, or any sound that its instincts tell it that approaching those sounds might be harmful to it.
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 11, 2011, 06:50:35 PM
Quote from: guesswho on February 11, 2011, 05:54:20 PM
Quote from: gordongekko on February 11, 2011, 05:51:25 PM
just saying that I wonder if sometimes we, as hunters, don't give these birds a little too much credit for intelligence, and not enough for simply being suspicious of everything.
:thanks:
Could it be that we do not give them enough credit for having survival traits that could be referred to as "intelligence"?
Nah! I'm sticking with the their ignorant theory.
Just an excuse.
i think we're overthinking turkeys here. they do what they do to survive, nothing more, nothing less. they're just being a turkey. also, just a thought, have you ever noticed how jaybirds and crows and other critters throw a fit when they know you're there? they're like natures security system. other animals take note of that. like when an eagle flys over a lake with loons on it, the loons go crazy makin noise and incidentally other birds like ducks and geese pay attention. combine that with the natural stress of breeding, fighting, and evading and eventually they learn a thing or two. like deer in the rut when they tend to run at night. does that make them "sun shy"? not hardly, they're just adapting and doing what they have to do to survive. animals that do not adapt, change, or whatever you wanna call it end up in our gas tanks(ie: dinosaurs). kind of rambling here in no certain direction. but, insomnia has thwarted my efforts to sleep and here i am putting my $.02 in the bank.
Quote from: guesswho on February 11, 2011, 05:54:20 PM
Quote from: gordongekko on February 11, 2011, 05:51:25 PM
just saying that I wonder if sometimes we, as hunters, don't give these birds a little too much credit for intelligence, and not enough for simply being suspicious of everything.
:thanks:
:icon_thumright:
i wouldn say call shy or call smart... jus call harrased. especially on public land in south miss
Call shy is just an excuse.. The same as "henned" up!! They're just educated to the average callers bag of tricks
Can we agree to disagree we can all think what we want to it dont hurt nobody(only the turkeys know)We just think we know.RIGHT.I dont care what it is as long as i kill him. ;D :newmascot:
Quote from: OLE RASPY on February 12, 2011, 10:26:12 AM
Can we agree to disagree we can all think what we want to it dont hurt nobody(only the turkeys know)We just think we know.RIGHT.I dont care what it is as long as i kill him. ;D :newmascot:
I actually like these topics, I think these topics are what a turkey forum is about.. It hasnt gotten heated by any means..
Gobblenut,
I approached one of these threads last year (maybe the year before) with your same argument. Not sure what I believe sometimes. Ive blamed not killing a bird on everything I could think of.......except myself. I guess it doesnt matter because I call a lot anyway.
I also think I was beat into submission and just agreed that turkeys are stupid..........which didint make me feel any smarter. I feel much better about being beaten by an intelligent animal than a dumb one that just chases hens w/o rhyme nor reason. ;D
Quote from: hobbes on February 12, 2011, 12:27:13 PM
I feel much better about being beaten by an intelligent animal than a dumb one that just chases hens w/o rhyme nor reason. ;D
:TooFunny:
Quote from: OLE RASPY on February 12, 2011, 10:26:12 AM
Can we agree to disagree we can all think what we want to it dont hurt nobody(only the turkeys know)We just think we know.
I blame the NWTF for educating them.
You'd blame the NWTF for the Kennedy assasination given the right opportunity. ;D
Quote from: hobbes on February 12, 2011, 03:01:35 PM
You'd blame the NWTF for the Kennedy assasination given the right opportunity. ;D
I heard their was a conspiracy involving Castro, and he looks like he could be related to Keck, so you've convinced me they were in on it!
Quote from: guesswho on February 12, 2011, 01:39:30 PM
Quote from: OLE RASPY on February 12, 2011, 10:26:12 AM
Can we agree to disagree we can all think what we want to it dont hurt nobody(only the turkeys know)We just think we know.
I blame the NWTF for educating them.
True.. Only the stupid ones fall prey to the net trap.. They have taken these west of the Mississippi thus leaving us East of the Big River with the smart Genes.
Quote from: guesswho on February 12, 2011, 03:08:10 PM
Quote from: hobbes on February 12, 2011, 03:01:35 PM
You'd blame the NWTF for the Kennedy assasination given the right opportunity. ;D
I heard their was a conspiracy involving Castro, and he looks like he could be related to Keck, so you've convinced me they were in on it!
You forgot watergate, Ronnie!
Quote from: shootumindaface on February 12, 2011, 12:11:42 PM
Quote from: OLE RASPY on February 12, 2011, 10:26:12 AM
Can we agree to disagree we can all think what we want to it dont hurt nobody(only the turkeys know)We just think we know.RIGHT.I dont care what it is as long as i kill him. ;D :newmascot:
I actually like these topics, I think these topics are what a turkey forum is about.. It hasnt gotten heated by any means..
;D
Quote from: shootumindaface on February 12, 2011, 03:43:45 PMTrue.. Only the stupid ones fall prey to the net trap.. They have taken these west of the Mississippi thus leaving us East of the Big River with the smart Genes.
What are you saying? White tips are easy ;D
If I dont put down a couple easterns this year in IL, Im going to feel inferior with the white tips........especially if I dont even kill a white tip.
Quote from: Flydown on February 10, 2011, 06:00:43 PM
Quote from: CASH on February 10, 2011, 05:59:43 PM
Another excuse. "Call smart" maybe. Guess that's an excuse to.
More like People shy.
That's what I'm thinking too. I'm not the greatest caller by any means, but I think I sound OK. Some people though, geez!!! They sound horrible!! :newmascot:
And though I probably call too much, there are some people that even I think call way too much. Then there are those that sound bad and call too much. I think if a turk gets too much of that, especially on public land with trucks driving around, and sees people moving, or gets shot at when coming in to that stuff, he gets wary, or should I say more wary.
I think using the wrong call makes them appear call shy. Most people get out of their truck and yelp and cutt. In reality hens do way more purring and clucking or putting than yelping. IMO the gobbler thinks if a hen is yelping she stands a good chance of coming to him. He had much prefer it to play out this way. Yelping is usually the last call I use on smart public land Alabama birds.
I agree that this is still a good topic for discussion, whether you believe in call shyness, or not.
Cahaba's point about people calling from their vehicles is a good one. Can turkeys learn to associate calling with the sound of vehicles, and maybe human voices or other noises that occur when people hunt that way? Sure they can.
But how does that correlate to a real turkey that calls that same way? ...Or even calls differently? After all, these are natural turkey sounds that turkeys make to communicate with other turkeys. Will a gobbler come to that real hen calling, recognizing the difference?
There are thousands of good turkey hunters and callers. We've all heard the same stuff. "Don't call from your vehicle....Don't call aggressively to hard-hunted birds....Use soft clucks and purrs....set up right....yada.. yada.. yada."
There are plenty of really good turkey hunters that go out each spring and make the right sounds and moves. And yet, there are still plenty of gobblers left in the woods after the season is over. The reason is a simple one, ...they learn to adapt to survive. And part of that adaptation is to stay away from turkey calling, real or otherwise, and wait for the calling to come to them.
This is not to say that every gobbler that doesn't get killed is that way. But there are definitely those out there in the woods that are.
Jim
Well I've read enough thus far to say I think you are all correct in your assumptions of turkeys being "call shy". After all, isn't just turkeys being turkeys? Isn't it what partly fuels our passion of pursuing these birds? Trying to figure out what makes them tick on any given day. If you look back there have been 5 pages of post's about one aspect of how to kill a turkey from some of the best turkey killers from across the country and there has not been overall agreement yet. Looks like the turkeys are still one up on us. Or, maybe the NWTF is injecting them with a smart gene before they release them so we will have a new generation of smarter turkeys every year. ;D
I think it varies from bird to bird and day to day a lot of times. Some days, a bird that you hunt might be viewed as "call-shy" only to come back the next day or week and have that same bird just be absolutely fired up... Nothing appears on the surface to be different but some days they are just more fired up than others and if you catch them on the right day, it could change things quite a bit.
I was watching a hunting show the other day where this dude is calling (pretty terribly I might add) at this bird across this pretty open area and the turkey is steady coming in on a rope....until the dude, for no reason at all, decides he needs to break into a calling clinic and what happens???? - The turkey stops walking in and breaks down and strutts. He never got that bird moving again once he stopped him and eventually, hens came into the field and took the bird away.
In this example- the guy had the bird coming in and all he had to do was shut up and let him come but he couldnt help himself. In this case, you didnt have to guess what happened because you could see the bird from a long way off but in a wooded area, the same situation could play out and you wouldve been left wonder what happened. Was the bird "call-shy" NO- he was coming to the call, then the guy messed it up and the gobbler decided to do what's natural to him----wait for the hen to come to him.
I imagine this happens quite a bit.
Everyone needs to pick up a copy of this Months Turkey and Turkey hunting magazine.. A great article on the subject :z-guntootsmiley:
Quote from: shootumindaface on February 24, 2011, 09:25:23 PM
Everyone needs to pick up a copy of this Months Turkey and Turkey hunting magazine.. A great article on the subject :z-guntootsmiley:
I saw that.
Yes, it was a great article. I have to admit that I did not realize that T&TH mag included works of fiction. Nor did I know that Mr. Strand was a charter member of the Flat Earth Society. ...Learn something new every day!
;D :newmascot: ;D :newmascot: ;D
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 28, 2011, 04:35:26 PM
Yes, it was a great article. I have to admit that I did not realize that T&TH mag included works of fiction. Nor did I know that Mr. Strand was a charter member of the Flat Earth Society. ...Learn something new every day!
;D :newmascot: ;D :newmascot: ;D
Heck that article renewed my faith in popular turkey hunting media.. It was so well written and factual gonna read it again..
Is the article on call shy birds or what im trying to find it online as i dont subscribe to it.
Quote from: OLE RASPY on February 28, 2011, 05:30:30 PM
Is the article on call shy birds or what im trying to find it online as i dont subscribe to it.
Its on the FACT there is no such thing as call shy turkeys...
Just as it is a fact that parrots can't learn to mimic human speech, rats can't learn to run through a maze for a reward or to avoid a punishment, and bird dogs can't be trained to avoid rattlesnakes...and on and on and on and on.....
...oh, and by the way, the earth really is flat, after all.....so don't get too close to the edge
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 28, 2011, 06:07:17 PM
oh, and by the way, the earth really is flat, after all.....so don't get too close to the edge
thats where all the call shy birds run to when they hear a call, then they fall of the edge never to be heard from again. Thus leaving no call shy birds!
Quote from: guesswho on February 28, 2011, 06:18:04 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 28, 2011, 06:07:17 PM
oh, and by the way, the earth really is flat, after all.....so don't get too close to the edge
thats where all the call shy birds run to when they hear a call, then they fall of the edge never to be heard from again. Thus leaving no call shy birds!
:icon_thumright: :icon_thumright:
Quote from: guesswho on February 28, 2011, 06:18:04 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 28, 2011, 06:07:17 PM
oh, and by the way, the earth really is flat, after all.....so don't get too close to the edge
thats where all the call shy birds run to when they hear a call, then they fall of the edge never to be heard from again. Thus leaving no call shy birds!
I am fortunate hear in MI that some head north.. I can virtually sit on the straits of Mackinaw and kill a Osceola, Merriam or Rio as they are desperately fleeing the real hen that yelped in the tree next to them.. Most are running shots, but if I keep an open choke I can knock em down..
Quote from: shootumindaface on February 28, 2011, 08:45:37 PM
Quote from: guesswho on February 28, 2011, 06:18:04 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 28, 2011, 06:07:17 PM
oh, and by the way, the earth really is flat, after all.....so don't get too close to the edge
thats where all the call shy birds run to when they hear a call, then they fall of the edge never to be heard from again. Thus leaving no call shy birds!
I am fortunate hear in MI that some head north.. I can virtually sit on the straits of Mackinaw and kill a Osceola, Merriam or Rio as they are desperately fleeing the real hen that yelped in the tree next to them.. Most are running shots, but if I keep an open choke I can knock em down..
:TooFunny: :TooFunny: :fud: :turkey2: :deadhorse:
;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/limbwalker1/769b0e9d.jpg)
Quote from: Flydown on February 28, 2011, 11:14:47 PM
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/limbwalker1/769b0e9d.jpg)
:TooFunny: :turkey2: :you_rock:
agree with most. I think call shy is just a bad term for smart people wise bird...I dont any bird knows I am running a lights out aluminum call with a hickory striker.
Every gobbler I've killed was call shy. But they got over it. ;)