As unfortunate as it was, the largest mass shooting in US
> history did not
> happen in Orlando as the media and politicians state, but
> happened
> December 29, 1890 when 297 Sioux Indians at Wounded
> Knee Creek on the
> Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in South Dakota were murdered
> by federal
> agents & members of the 7th Cavalry who had come to
> confiscate their firearms
> "for their own safety and
> protection". The
> slaughter began after the majority of the Sioux had
> peacefully turned
> in their firearms. The Calvary began shooting, and managed
> to wipe out
> the entire camp. 200 of the 297 victims were women and
> children. Wounded
> Knee was among the first federally backed gun confiscation
> attempts in
> United States history. It ended in the senseless murder of
> 297 people. The
> Second Amendment gives the right of the people to take
> up arms in
> defense of themselves, their families, and property in the
> face of
> invading armies or an oppressive government. The Second
> Amendment was
> written by people who fled oppressive and tyrannical regimes
> in Europe,
> and it refers to the right of American citizens to be armed
> for
> defensive purposes, should such tyranny arise in the United
> States. Wounded
> Knee is the prime example of why the Second Amendment
> exists, and why
> we should vehemently resist any attempts to infringe on our
> Right to
> Bear Arms. Without the Second Amendment we will be totally
> stripped of
> any ability to defend ourselves and our
> families.
>
Interesting info....thanks.
Wouldn't that be considered a military action to keep a fairly recent foe from starting up further hostilities?
In the Civil War there were lots of mass shootings. Thousands killed per day in many battles.
What I'm getting at is that I'm not sure military actions (and it's difficult to judge the decisions made then by today's standards) count as "mass shootings" like the ones in the news in recent years.
None of which refutes your basic message, the Second Ammendment is what protects and preserve all the others.
It is very sad and unfortunate people kill others. If they weren't using guns it would be homemade bombs, mowing people down with vehicles etc. It's not guns killing people its people killing people. Then more than likely we'll set them up with a place to stay, direct tv, and 3 meals a day and that's if we the people are lucky and a fancy lawyer doesn't get them off. One would think we could come up with some better laws to deter people from doing these horrific events.
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on June 19, 2016, 09:00:45 AM
It is very sad and unfortunate people kill others. If they weren't using guns it would be homemade bombs, mowing people down with vehicles etc. It's not guns killing people its people killing people. Then more than likely we'll set them up with a place to stay, direct tv, and 3 meals a day and that's if we the people are lucky and a fancy lawyer doesn't get them off. One would think we could come up with some better laws to deter people from doing these horrific events.
X2
People use guns to kill people.
When it comes to crime and mass killings, guns are the tool of choice. For the sake of public safety, I hope the two sides of this discussion can find common ground and pass some sensible, productive legislation that addresses both mental health and firearms accessibility.
Great info thanks for passing it along.
Here is my thinking in todays world, Being a LEO for 25 years ( now retired) this is the moto my family lives by. Arm yourself or become a victim..... And you can bet that everyone that lives under my roof
is packing, or no more than 10 feet from a loaded gun at any time..
My kids and wife have grown up around guns and all are very proficient with them. All know the rules for engagement with deadly force. We all sleep very peacefully at night.
I believe everyone should know how to use a gun. Everyone in my family does. Do I believe that some people should not have gun? Absolutely. However no amount of legislation or background checks will keep guns out of their hands if they really want them. Neither will banning guns entirely. That just makes the law abiding citizen defenseless. I believe in more law abiding and decent citizens carrying guns. Most criminals are cowards and if the odds are good they are gonna be getting shot at then they wouldn't start their crap. And for those crazy idiots that want to die for their crazy cause. I say drop them before they get a good start on killing all those innocent people. The only way that happens is if there are a lot of guns in good people's hands. Should there be a testing and mental evaluation before you are allowed to carry a weapon? I believe so. But it should be made available nation wide. We will never end all violence and there are some twisted souls who have no value for human life. They cannot be fixed but they can be eliminated.
Quote from: Fullfan on June 19, 2016, 02:56:36 PM
Great info thanks for passing it along.
Here is my thinking in todays world, Being a LEO for 25 years ( now retired) this is the moto my family lives by. Arm yourself or become a victim..... And you can bet that everyone that lives under my roof
is packing, or no more than 10 feet from a loaded gun at any time..
My kids and wife have grown up around guns and all are very proficient with them. All know the rules for engagement with deadly force. We all sleep very peacefully at night.
:icon_thumright:
Quote from: Happy on June 19, 2016, 03:28:29 PM
I believe everyone should know how to use a gun. Everyone in my family does. Do I believe that some people should not have gun? Absolutely. However no amount of legislation or background checks will keep guns out of their hands if they really want them. Neither will banning guns entirely. That just makes the law abiding citizen defenseless. I believe in more law abiding and decent citizens carrying guns. Most criminals are cowards and if the odds are good they are gonna be getting shot at then they wouldn't start their crap. And for those crazy idiots that want to die for their crazy cause. I say drop them before they get a good start on killing all those innocent people. The only way that happens is if there are a lot of guns in good people's hands. Should there be a testing and mental evaluation before you are allowed to carry a weapon? I believe so. But it should be made available wide. We will never end all violence and there are some twisted souls who have no value for human life. They cannot be fixed but they can be eliminated.
:happy0064:
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on June 19, 2016, 02:07:18 PM
People use guns to kill people.
When it comes to crime and mass killings, guns are the tool of choice. For the sake of public safety, I hope the two sides of this discussion can find common ground and pass some sensible, productive legislation that addresses both mental health and firearms accessibility.
Agree 100%. I would love to see a more in depth background check system. I don't really care if it would make it a bit less convenient for me to buy a gun. The problem is that groups like the NRA are against any kind of new gun laws. I'm afraid that in the future we are going to have to either compromise and face some inconvenient regulations or lose a lot of our guns. Given the choice, I'd rather take the compromise.
Quote from: Farmboy27 on June 19, 2016, 05:13:29 PM
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on June 19, 2016, 02:07:18 PM
People use guns to kill people.
When it comes to crime and mass killings, guns are the tool of choice. For the sake of public safety, I hope the two sides of this discussion can find common ground and pass some sensible, productive legislation that addresses both mental health and firearms accessibility.
Agree 100%. I would love to see a more in depth background check system. I don't really care if it would make it a bit less convenient for me to buy a gun. The problem is that groups like the NRA are against any kind of new gun laws. I'm afraid that in the future we are going to have to either compromise and face some inconvenient regulations or lose a lot of our guns. Given the choice, I'd rather take the compromise.
:agreed: :agreed:
I honestly wished that the media and misinformed would quit spouting that ar stands for assault rifle. Ignorance is part of the problem with the gun argument. They are talking about passing a law that if your on a watch list , then you cannot purchase a firearm. I want to know who decides who makes the list and why. This is a slippery slope they are treading on now. Just my thoughts.
Quote from: Farmboy27 on June 19, 2016, 05:13:29 PM
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR link=topic=66396.msg649589#msg649589 date=1466359fr638
People use guns to kill people.
When it comes to crime and mass killings, guns are the tool of choice. For the sake of public safety, I hope the two sides of this discussion can find common ground and pass some sensible, productive legislation that addresses both mental health and firearms accessibility.
Agree 100%. I would love to see a more in depth background check system. I don't really care if it would make it a bit less convenient for me to buy a gun. The problem is that groups like the NRA are against any kind of new gun laws. I'm afraid that in the future we are going to have to either compromise and face some inconvenient regulations or lose a lot of our guns. Given the choice, I'd rather take the compromise.
Guns are definitely the tool of choice and if we didn't have guns the criminals would have them or use some other way of harming people. The NRA isn't stupid if they compromise are gun rights will be widdled away to the point we couldn't own a squirt gun. Look at the population does everyone think things are going to go smoothly all the time with or without guns. I personally don't think all of us law abiding people should have to keep giving our rights up for the stuff criminals do. I think we need more death penalty preferably by victims families if they so choose. :z-guntootsmiley:
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on June 19, 2016, 09:01:57 PM
Quote from: Farmboy27 on June 19, 2016, 05:13:29 PM
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR link=topic=66396.msg649589#msg649589 date=1466359fr638
People use guns to kill people.
When it comes to crime and mass killings, guns are the tool of choice. For the sake of public safety, I hope the two sides of this discussion can find common ground and pass some sensible, productive legislation that addresses both mental health and firearms accessibility.
Agree 100%. I would love to see a more in depth background check system. I don't really care if it would make it a bit less convenient for me to buy a gun. The problem is that groups like the NRA are against any kind of new gun laws. I'm afraid that in the future we are going to have to either compromise and face some inconvenient regulations or lose a lot of our guns. Given the choice, I'd rather take the compromise.
Guns are definitely the tool of choice and if we didn't have guns the criminals would have them or use some other way of harming people. The NRA isn't stupid if they compromise are gun rights will be widdled away to the point we couldn't own a squirt gun. Look at the population does everyone think things are going to go smoothly all the time with or without guns. I personally don't think all of us law abiding people should have to keep giving our rights up for the stuff criminals do. I think we need more death penalty preferably by victims families if they so choose. :z-guntootsmiley:
Its a just a fact of life that sometimes we must compromise to prosper. I am no different from anyone else, I would love to have everything my way all the time! But the bottom line is the constitution gives us the right to keep and bear arms. Unfortunately, it doesn't specify the type of arms because the writers never guessed that we would someday have the guns available that we do today. In my opinion there have been far to many legally bought guns used in recent mass shootings. Set stricter standards for gun buyers! If you're a law abididing, sane citizen, then it won't matter. We gun owners seem to forget that there are other rights in this country. Like LIFE, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. Compromise is not the end of the world. The NRA would help it's image a lot if it would show people that it is willing to work with gun control advocates to find a solution that both sides could live with! But I really can't remember a single time that the NRA really stopped a serious threat to the 2nd amendment. In my experience they ask for tons of money, make promises, and talk about threats, and then take credit for no gun control laws being passed. As soon as there is a mass shooting they take full advantage of it and ask for more money! They are no better than the average politician. Never waste a good crisis!
I live in NY. We have background checks. We have to wait 4-6months for our pistol permit after applying. It works fine IMO. With that being said.... I don't think law abiding citizens disagree with that. The problem is what are the powers to be gonna try to sneak in. Noone trust them that's why our guard is always up. First they say it's the a.r. then all of a sudden it's any 50 cal. semi auto weapon like my 12 GA. The people making the laws are not trust worthy. That's the bottom line
Yes here in NY people have to wait 6 months for a handgun permit by jumping thru all types of flaming hoops and tons of paperwork but at the end there is NO requirement for a safety class or have to prove proficiency with a gun or responsible ownership!This is where we fail as a state and a country
We..the gun culture are constantly taking it on the chin...fingers pointed at and looked down on as these maniacs who have no ties to us whatsoever commit crimes with guns...our guns..guns that belong in the hands of MENTORED, TRAINED, LICENSED..RESPONSIBLE citizens...Someone..some IDIOT...should not be allowed to enter our culture..our world..and use a weapon in a crime that impacts ALL of us..
Things have to change..Guns and gun safety should not be a mystery or something parents try to hide from their children...Responsible gun safety and ownership must be taught in the schools and an individual desiring to buy a gun MUST be trained and mentored for a period of time BEFORE they are allowed to be the sole owner and responsible user of that gun. I am all for gun ownership and the 2nd amendment but we have to come up with a system that blocks a "lone wolf" type or anyone else not affiliated with the gun world to obtain a firearm legally and we must teach our children and communities what it really means to own a gun and be a gun user and that WE are not the enemy NOT just ways to keep guns away and let them become the "soft" targets that these cowardly bastards love to use as the targets of their insanity.
I disagree 100% with compromise. Liberals always talk about reaching across the aisle for bi-partisan agreement, like you have in the bills going up for vote today. Any compromise on our part will equal a gobbling-up power grab on their part.
I want to know 2 things. One, why was the Orlando shooter taken off said watch list ? Two, when his sorry arse went to buy a firearm, why wasnt he immediately snatched up by the FBI ?
Gods of Thunder
2015 Old Gobbler contest Champions
Farmboy27 and lmbhnge, this post is not against either of you personally, but directly at your stated opinions. For one, I will never set foot in New York State or any other jurisdiction where the politicians do not recognize my concealed carry permit and therefore my god given right to defend my life and if appropriate, the lives of others.
The problem is not guns, but rather gun free zones that scream, ""Come and kill us". Ones with nefarious, evil intentions will find a way to arm themselves. Perhaps if there had been only one responsible concealed carry permit holder in the Orlando bar, the carnage could have been lessened. Unfortunately, Florida does not allow permitted carry in bars. My state does not allow carry in bars either, so I stay out of those gun free zones. Perhaps states should allow carry in bars so long as the one carrying does not consume alcohol, a designated sheepdog.
Insofar as the type of weapons one should be allowed to possess, the founders desired the citizen to possess the type of weapon that would allow the citizen to defend against tyranny, i.e., the government. Absent adequate, speedy and a cost free method of getting off of a arbitrary list, the no fly/terrorist lists do not provide the due process required by the Constitution.
Compromise with progressives is a one-way street, always leading to a further loss of the Liberty fought so hard for by the revolutionaries in the colonies.
Whether anybody here agrees with the idea of compromise or not, change is on the way in this country. We will either take a realistic look at where the overwhelming majority of the public stands on this issue, and then come to the table and make compromises that will satisfy that majority, or we will ultimately face the much harsher consequences of not doing so.
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 20, 2016, 02:51:32 PM
Whether anybody here agrees with the idea of compromise or not, change is on the way in this country. We will either take a realistic look at where the overwhelming majority of the public stands on this issue, and then come to the table and make compromises that will satisfy that majority, or we will ultimately face the much harsher consequences of not doing so.
Compromise.....Lol.... I'm glad I was never on a battle field with a bunch of you. I have a feeling once the first shot went off I'd be out there alone. Or surrounded by white flags Lol... i dont think the other side would even need torture tactics to get info.. Lol..you seen what happened to the Indians with compromise and coming to the table. I can't hardly believe what I'm reading. I guess everyone has their own opinion mine is never compromise. Lord help us... oh is that ok to say??? Hope I didn't offend anyone. Lol....
Quote from: BowBendr on June 20, 2016, 10:36:44 AM
I disagree 100% with compromise. Liberals always talk about reaching across the aisle for bi-partisan agreement, like you have in the bills going up for vote today. Any compromise on our part will equal a gobbling-up power grab on their part.
I want to know 2 things. One, why was the Orlando shooter taken off said watch list ? Two, when his sorry arse went to buy a firearm, why wasnt he immediately snatched up by the FBI ?
The person in question was on a watch list... To my knowledge, he had committed no crime, and was NOT a criminal.
What other Constitutional rights should we take away from citizens who we "suspect" as possible threats or criminals yet who have not been charged with any crimes? In other words taking away someone's rights cause we do not like them or their beliefs??
Gun control is a slippery slope, and unfortunately, I think we will find that we cannot regulate our way to safety... Unfortunately, the main portion affected by gun regulation will be law-abiding citizens...
What I do see that needs to be done is far more aggressive measures to prevent illegal gun sales and distribution, and far harsher punishment for illegally buying or selling guns.
Personally, I think it is a dangerous line of thinking to consider taking away the rights of citizens without some proof or good reason to do so... Especially when we consider the ambiguity of being put on to a watch list... Such reasoning could easily be used to prevent the majority of citizens from gun ownership.
I do not believe there are any easy answers, and with the increasing numbers of mass shootings, society is demanding that action be taken... Nobody knows what action that should be, and the most obvious answer is to get rid of guns...
My feeling however, is that addressing this violence with gun regulation is similar to addressing a leaky dam by removing the water from a lake.
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on June 20, 2016, 03:14:37 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 20, 2016, 02:51:32 PM
Whether anybody here agrees with the idea of compromise or not, change is on the way in this country. We will either take a realistic look at where the overwhelming majority of the public stands on this issue, and then come to the table and make compromises that will satisfy that majority, or we will ultimately face the much harsher consequences of not doing so.
Compromise.....Lol.... I'm glad I was never on a battle field with a bunch of you. I have a feeling once the first shot went off I'd be out there alone. Or surrounded by white flags Lol... i dont think the other side would even need torture tactics to get info.. Lol..you seen what happened to the Indians with compromise and coming to the table. I can't hardly believe what I'm reading. I guess everyone has their own opinion mine is never compromise. Lord help us... oh is that ok to say??? Hope I didn't offend anyone. Lol....
Laugh all you want! Change is on the way and when change happens you must adapt or die off. I for one would rather adapt but that's just me. I don't see how any of the comments on compromise makes us cowards. Your opinion is to never compromise? Some might say that makes you tough. I would say that makes you narrow minded, selfish, and very poor at strategic and tactical decisions. Hey, we all have our opinions!
QuoteArm yourself or become a victim.
Thanks,
Clark
Quote from: Farmboy27 on June 20, 2016, 05:23:32 PM
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on June 20, 2016, 03:14:37 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 20, 2016, 02:51:32 PM
Whether anybody here agrees with the idea of compromise or not, change is on the way in this country. We will either take a realistic look at where the overwhelming majority of the public stands on this issue, and then come to the table and make compromises that will satisfy that majority, or we will ultimately face the much harsher consequences of not doing so.
Compromise.....Lol.... I'm glad I was never on a battle field with a bunch of you. I have a feeling once the first shot went off I'd be out there alone. Or surrounded by white flags Lol... i dont think the other side would even need torture tactics to get info.. Lol..you seen what happened to the Indians with compromise and coming to the table. I can't hardly believe what I'm reading. I guess everyone has their own opinion mine is never compromise. Lord help us... oh is that ok to say??? Hope I didn't offend anyone. Lol....
Laugh all you want! Change is on the way and when change happens you must adapt or die off. I for one would rather adapt but that's just me. I don't see how any of the comments on compromise makes us cowards. Your opinion is to never compromise? Some might say that makes you tough. I would say that makes you narrow minded, selfish, and very poor at strategic and tactical decisions. Hey, we all have our opinions!
Your right say whatever you want to say. It doesn't take a whole lot of smarts to look at some of our neighbors and see where compromise got them. I'm done trying to spell it out. How's that saying go...you can't fix
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on June 20, 2016, 06:48:22 PM
Quote from: Farmboy27 on June 20, 2016, 05:23:32 PM
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on June 20, 2016, 03:14:37 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 20, 2016, 02:51:32 PM
Whether anybody here agrees with the idea of compromise or not, change is on the way in this country. We will either take a realistic look at where the overwhelming majority of the public stands on this issue, and then come to the table and make compromises that will satisfy that majority, or we will ultimately face the much harsher consequences of not doing so.
Compromise.....Lol.... I'm glad I was never on a battle field with a bunch of you. I have a feeling once the first shot went off I'd be out there alone. Or surrounded by white flags Lol... i dont think the other side would even need torture tactics to get info.. Lol..you seen what happened to the Indians with compromise and coming to the table. I can't hardly believe what I'm reading. I guess everyone has their own opinion mine is never compromise. Lord help us... oh is that ok to say??? Hope I didn't offend anyone. Lol....
Laugh all you want! Change is on the way and when change happens you must adapt or die off. I for one would rather adapt but that's just me. I don't see how any of the comments on compromise makes us cowards. Your opinion is to never compromise? Some might say that makes you tough. I would say that makes you narrow minded, selfish, and very poor at strategic and tactical decisions. Hey, we all have our opinions!
Your right say whatever you want to say. It doesn't take a whole lot of smarts to look at some of our neighbors and see where compromise got them. I'm done trying to spell it out. How's that saying go...you can't fix
Well now I've been called a coward and stupid for saying I would rather loose a battle than loose the war! Guess it's just not my day. Any comments about my house or my wife while your at it?
Quote from: Farmboy27 on June 20, 2016, 05:23:32 PM
Laugh all you want! Change is on the way and when change happens you must adapt or die off. I for one would rather adapt but that's just me. I don't see how any of the comments on compromise makes us cowards. Your opinion is to never compromise? Some might say that makes you tough. I would say that makes you narrow minded, selfish, and very poor at strategic and tactical decisions. Hey, we all have our opinions!
Remember that the second Amendment was not put into place so that we can hunt, or protect ourselves and home from crime.
The Second Amendment was put into place to protect society from the potential of an oppressive government. It was put into place to create an armed society capable (and hopefully willing) to protect itself from threats both foreign and domestic...
I firmly believe that the first step in creating the potential for an oppressive government is to take away the ability of society to defend itself.
I believe that most proponents of the Second Amendment and gun rights in general would be in favor of regulation which was logical and in the best interest of society... Unfortunately, the end-game of gun regulation enthusiasts is NO MORE GUNS. The idea is to slowly "compromise" citizens either out of their rights or abilities to own guns...
Some terrible gun regulation has been proposed and passed in California... No more guns with a removable clip, no more online ammo purchasing, severe restriction in the amount of ammo allowable to purchase (2 boxes I believe), etc...
Much of the regulation we will see coming down the line will be in the form of ammunition regulation... Making it far more difficult and expensive to purchase ammunition (thus indirect gun regulation).
My current stance on gun regulation is that I will resist any new gun regulation. I will write my representatives, I will sign petitions, I will support the NRA, and I will vote for candidates who will support second amendment rights.
I will fight any further gun regulations, and I will fight to get back any rights that are taken in the form of gun regulation...
[/quote]Compromise.....Lol.... I'm glad I was never on a battle field with a bunch of you. I have a feeling once the first shot went off I'd be out there alone. Or surrounded by white flags Lol... i dont think the other side would even need torture tactics to get info.. Lol..you seen what happened to the Indians with compromise and coming to the table. I can't hardly believe what I'm reading. I guess everyone has their own opinion mine is never compromise. Lord help us... oh is that ok to say??? Hope I didn't offend anyone. Lol....
[/quote]
You certainly didn't prove yourself to be offensive; more narrow-minded than anything. Classy move with that battle field reference. Not everyone who has carried a gun for a living assumes cowardice amongst their peers when disagreements over mass-shootings, politics, and public safety are being discussed.
If you have spent any time in a combat environment, you should be keenly aware that people use guns to kill people. Guns are being used to kill A LOT of people annually in the U.S. What that means, Poindexter, is that our policies are not working. Our society has indisputably shifted away from moral values and become more focused on individuality and civil liberties. As these cultural trends occur, we cannot remain totally sedentary and expect policy of the past to be efficacious in the future.
The 2nd Amendment is an inalienable right designed to instill and maintain a healthy level of fear for the governed. That being said, compromise is inevitable. You're on the losing side of history if you refuse to do so. Common sense policy such as closing gun show loopholes, etc, make sense to me and a larger percentage of the American populous.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on June 20, 2016, 09:11:08 PM
Compromise.....Lol.... I'm glad I was never on a battle field with a bunch of you. I have a feeling once the first shot went off I'd be out there alone. Or surrounded by white flags Lol... i dont think the other side would even need torture tactics to get info.. Lol..you seen what happened to the Indians with compromise and coming to the table. I can't hardly believe what I'm reading. I guess everyone has their own opinion mine is never compromise. Lord help us... oh is that ok to say??? Hope I didn't offend anyone. Lol....
[/quote]
You certainly didn't prove yourself to be offensive; more narrow-minded than anything. Classy move with that battle field reference. Not everyone who has carried a gun for a living assumes cowardice amongst their peers when disagreements over mass-shootings, politics, and public safety are being discussed.
If you have spent any time in a combat environment, you should be keenly aware that people use guns to kill people. Guns are being used to kill A LOT of people annually in the U.S. What that means, Poindexter, is that our policies are not working. Our society has indisputably shifted away from moral values and become more focused on individuality and civil liberties. As these cultural trends occur, we cannot remain totally sedentary and expect policy of the past to be efficacious in the future.
The 2nd Amendment is an inalienable right designed to instill and maintain a healthy level of fear for the governed. That being said, compromise is inevitable. You're on the losing side of history if you refuse to do so. Common sense policy such as closing gun show loopholes, etc, make sense to me and a larger percentage of the American populous.
[/quote]
100%. Well said!
Would someone explain to me what the "gun show loophole" is? It has never been satisfactorily explained to me.
It seems like some people want us to accept our "Participation Ribbons" and be happy!! The problem is we are not the problem. Eliminating guns will not solve the criminall problem. it's going to take a much more sophisticated approach. This approach will start at home and in our communities, not with the Government telling us what is best. They like to use fear in hopes that we give up more freedom and they gain more control. This gun issue is a slippery slope!
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on June 20, 2016, 03:14:37 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 20, 2016, 02:51:32 PM
Whether anybody here agrees with the idea of compromise or not, change is on the way in this country. We will either take a realistic look at where the overwhelming majority of the public stands on this issue, and then come to the table and make compromises that will satisfy that majority, or we will ultimately face the much harsher consequences of not doing so.
Compromise.....Lol.... I'm glad I was never on a battle field with a bunch of you. I have a feeling once the first shot went off I'd be out there alone. Or surrounded by white flags Lol... i dont think the other side would even need torture tactics to get info.. Lol..you seen what happened to the Indians with compromise and coming to the table. I can't hardly believe what I'm reading. I guess everyone has their own opinion mine is never compromise. Lord help us... oh is that ok to say??? Hope I didn't offend anyone. Lol....
I agree with this. I served 5 years as a army ranger and I have been in combat. I have bleed for this country as well. I feel that there is not a compromise with a liberal. They are so out of touch with reality that it isn't even funny. Why should I compromise a God given right. I have committed no atrocities what so ever. I feel sick because I volunteered and fought for everyone in our great country to be free . Some in this great country do not deserve these freedoms that I helped to provide. I am ashamed at how weak we have become. You can't say anything without hurting someone's feelings and everyone gets a participation trophy. It's horrible. You start compromising our right to bear arms and everyone will see where this country will wind up. If you all trust this government to take care of you , well I feel sorry for you. Make no mistake , they want all Guns not just certain ones. They will chip away until they achieve this goal. This is not a speculation but a fact. Sorry for a long post but I'm really frustrated. I will say this in closing , I will never surrender one of my guns and that's just a fact. I am not trying to act tough or be a key board warrior but you can take that to the bank. I hope that there are alot of my brothers and sisters that feel the same way and has that conviction. Everyone has a right to their opinion , thanked to our first amendment. Infringe on the 2nd and watch the rest fall like a house of cards.
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on June 20, 2016, 09:47:51 PM
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on June 20, 2016, 03:14:37 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 20, 2016, 02:51:32 PM
Whether anybody here agrees with the idea of compromise or not, change is on the way in this country. We will either take a realistic look at where the overwhelming majority of the public stands on this issue, and then come to the table and make compromises that will satisfy that majority, or we will ultimately face the much harsher consequences of not doing so.
Compromise.....Lol.... I'm glad I was never on a battle field with a bunch of you. I have a feeling once the first shot went off I'd be out there alone. Or surrounded by white flags Lol... i dont think the other side would even need torture tactics to get info.. Lol..you seen what happened to the Indians with compromise and coming to the table. I can't hardly believe what I'm reading. I guess everyone has their own opinion mine is never compromise. Lord help us... oh is that ok to say??? Hope I didn't offend anyone. Lol....
I agree with this. I served 5 years as a army ranger and I have been in combat. I have bleed for this country as well. I feel that there is not a compromise with a liberal. They are so out of touch with reality that it isn't even funny. Why should I compromise a God given right. I have committed no atrocities what so ever. I feel sick because I volunteered and fought for everyone in our great country to be free . Some in this great country do not deserve these freedoms that I helped to provide. I am ashamed at how weak we have become. You can't say anything without hurting someone's feelings and everyone gets a participation trophy. It's horrible. You start compromising our right to bear arms and everyone will see where this country will wind up. If you all trust this government to take care of you , well I feel sorry for you. Make no mistake , they want all Guns not just certain ones. They will chip away until they achieve this goal. This is not a speculation but a fact. Sorry for a long post but I'm really frustrated. I will say this in closing , I will never surrender one of my guns and that's just a fact. I am not trying to act tough or be a key board warrior but you can take that to the bank. I hope that there are alot of my brothers and sisters that feel the same way and has that conviction. Everyone has a right to their opinion , thanked to our first amendment. Infringe on the 2nd and watch the rest fall like a house of cards.
I will say this right now. If it comes down to fighting for my guns or surrendering them, I will surrender them. I love my guns but not anywhere close to how much I love my family! If it really comes down to that, and the government confiscates our guns, then I will not fight because it will be a losing battle for sure. My family is far more important than any gun I will ever own. Anyone who thinks that the government will not be successful in taking our guns if and when they ever want to is a fool. If given the choice between living with my family or dying with my guns, I'm taking family every time! Yup, guess I am a coward. I just hope the rest of you don't have to prove that you're hero's!
In the late 1930's and early 1940'a a man in Germany made the possession of firearms by Jews illegal. The Jews loved their families so they gave up their guns. The families were later rounded up and taken to concentration camps where the families were gassed, shot and burned together.
In the 1770's the king of England sent troops to Lexington and Concord to seize the arms of the Massachusetts militia. The militia resisted, pledging their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor and a new nation conceived in Liberty was born.
The gun show loophole as I understand it. Private citizens frequently attend these gun shows and sell their personal guns to other private citizens. This is legal (in this state)as long as they are not selling to someone that they have knowledge of them being a convicted felon or otherwise unable to legally purchase a firearm. I believe they may have to be a state resident also (buyer and seller). They want the state police at all gun shows to "close the gun show loophole" and thus run background checks on all of these sales from one private citizen to another.
The media makes the gun show loophole sound like you just walk up to any dealer attending the gun show and buy your firearm without a background check. Completely false.
Couple things I would like to make perfectly clear. First... My NY pistol permit is valid in 22 other states. Sorry it is not yours Silvestri. I've had my pistol permit for 23 years. I had to take a course before purchasing my first handgun. I said in my original post that we don't trust the politicians making the laws because they Will try to sneak other policies in. I am 100% in full support with background checks. If you don't have anything to hide it wouldn't effect you
Quote from: Marc on June 20, 2016, 03:21:35 PM
Quote from: BowBendr on June 20, 2016, 10:36:44 AM
I disagree 100% with compromise. Liberals always talk about reaching across the aisle for bi-partisan agreement, like you have in the bills going up for vote today. Any compromise on our part will equal a gobbling-up power grab on their part.
I want to know 2 things. One, why was the Orlando shooter taken off said watch list ? Two, when his sorry arse went to buy a firearm, why wasnt he immediately snatched up by the FBI ?
The person in question was on a watch list... To my knowledge, he had committed no crime, and was NOT a criminal.
What other Constitutional rights should we take away from citizens who we "suspect" as possible threats or criminals yet who have not been charged with any crimes? In other words taking away someone's rights cause we do not like them or their beliefs??
Gun control is a slippery slope, and unfortunately, I think we will find that we cannot regulate our way to safety... Unfortunately, the main portion affected by gun regulation will be law-abiding citizens...
What I do see that needs to be done is far more aggressive measures to prevent illegal gun sales and distribution, and far harsher punishment for illegally buying or selling guns.
Personally, I think it is a dangerous line of thinking to consider taking away the rights of citizens without some proof or good reason to do so... Especially when we consider the ambiguity of being put on to a watch list... Such reasoning could easily be used to prevent the majority of citizens from gun ownership.
I do not believe there are any easy answers, and with the increasing numbers of mass shootings, society is demanding that action be taken... Nobody knows what action that should be, and the most obvious answer is to get rid of guns...
My feeling however, is that addressing this violence with gun regulation is similar to addressing a leaky dam by removing the water from a lake.
The reason that I posed the 2 questions are simple...
Correct me if I am wrong, but this is the 5th incident during the current administration that someone committed an act of mass violence while being known and watched by the FBI. We knew about the Ft. Hood shooter, the Chattanooga shooter, the SanBernardino shooters, the Orlando shooter and the Tsarnaev brothers that set the Boston marathon bombs.
One thing that radicals are is patient, they have been waiting for about 2,000 years. These citizens committing these crimes are using their constitutional rights against the country. They pop up on a list, they are interviewed and watched, while cooperating and staying low profile. We cant do a thing because they are citizens.
The only job of the federal government is to keep the country safe and BHO's regime is doing a crappy job. Dont infringe on my rights to own when your not even catching the ones you know about, because it looks like we may end up having to do it ourselves, and I will need a gun.
Sorry, but when you have made several overseas trips to known areas, making crazy comments at work, been interviewed in person twice by the FBI and hit a watch list...no, you do not need to be buying guns, citizen or not. That type of action will never be discussed because we are too busy worrying about mag capacities...and remember, this is the 3rd time now that co-workers have known but employers are scared to fire them because of CAIR...don't want to get sued for infringing on their religious rights. They are using the Constitution against us. Do I want it re-written ? No, but the hands of the CIA and FBI will have to be untied before we can do anything, and that doesn't happen until liberals utter the words " radical jihad". Oops don't use that term, we'll make them mad......
Gods of Thunder
2015 Old Gobbler contest Champions
It is pretty obvious that there are differing opinions here as to what is the answer to the problems we have regarding gun violence in this country. Honestly, it is such a complex issue that there is likely no "this will solve it" answer. The reality is, however, that those of us on here discussing it are not going to be the ones that determine what regulations are put in place to attempt to remedy it. Those regulations are ultimately going to be determined by the general citizenry of this country.
It may not happen soon, but let's be realistic,...it is going to happen at some point. There are way too many folks that want to see more deterrents to gun violence put in place. We can accept that fact and understand its implications,... or we can bury our heads in the sand and wait for the locomotive to come run us over.
Personally, I am not going to do that. I am going to work to get regulations put in place that I can live with through interacting with those folks that control my destiny as a gun owner on this issue. That process involves the term COMPROMISE. All the bluster and bravado others have about it is not going to change that attitude.
I don't claim to have the answers but here is my problem with laws. Criminals don't follow them. Trying to control guns is about like trying to control drugs. We all can see how swell that's turning out. I honestly believe that the only way you deter criminals is by making them afraid to commit a crime. We have to fix that. And yes you will still have some crazy people out there but you can slow this violence down. We are to sympathetic to those who don't deserve it. I have nothing against background checks but that only applies to those who try to purchase guns legally. Those aren't the people I am worried about. I am all for a reasonable solution however penalizing law abiding citizens isn't it.
And by the way comprise means both sides give up something. More intense background checks? OK how about bringing back the death penalty and using it.
I will not compromise. I will not comply. I will live free, the blood and lives of thousands of patriots bought me that right. It is non negotiable. The government does not "allow" me to have my rights, those were endowed to me by my Creator. My family ran off the last tyrant at the point of a bayonet. The baaaaing of the sheep is deafening. Those who give up freedom for safety deserve neither. Will the left compromise on their immigration policy? A tiny, tiny, tiny, percentage of crimes committed by semi autos and they want to ban all of them. A couple of terrorist acts committed by the "religion of peace" and the libs want to import hundreds of thousands more? You cannot compromise with that kind of mindset. The fbi had the Boston bombers, San Bernadino, and the Orlando shooter on their radar. How did that work out? All the calls and personal info being gathered by DHS didn't do anything either. So just give up a little more freedom and they will make it safer for you. No pesky due process involved. Good luck with that.
Quote from: the Ward on June 21, 2016, 12:04:06 PM
I will not compromise. I will not comply. I will live free, the blood and lives of thousands of patriots bought me that right. It is non negotiable. The government does not "allow" me to have my rights, those were endowed to me by my Creator. My family ran off the last tyrant at the point of a bayonet. The baaaaing of the sheep is deafening. Those who give up freedom for safety deserve neither. Will the left compromise on their immigration policy? A tiny, tiny, tiny, percentage of crimes committed by semi autos and they want to ban all of them. A couple of terrorist acts committed by the "religion of peace" and the libs want to import hundreds of thousands more? You cannot compromise with that kind of mindset. The fbi had the Boston bombers, San Bernadino, and the Orlando shooter on their radar. How did that work out? All the calls and personal info being gathered by DHS didn't do anything either. So just give up a little more freedom and they will make it safer for you. No pesky due process involved. Good luck with that.
You got it. Compromise is a one way street with left turns only.
Quote from: Farmboy27 on June 20, 2016, 10:30:19 PM
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on June 20, 2016, 09:47:51 PM
Quote from: 1iagobblergetter on June 20, 2016, 03:14:37 PM
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 20, 2016, 02:51:32 PM
Whether anybody here agrees with the idea of compromise or not, change is on the way in this country. We will either take a realistic look at where the overwhelming majority of the public stands on this issue, and then come to the table and make compromises that will satisfy that majority, or we will ultimately face the much harsher consequences of not doing so.
Compromise.....Lol.... I'm glad I was never on a battle field with a bunch of you. I have a feeling once the first shot went off I'd be out there alone. Or surrounded by white flags Lol... i dont think the other side would even need torture tactics to get info.. Lol..you seen what happened to the Indians with compromise and coming to the table. I can't hardly believe what I'm reading. I guess everyone has their own opinion mine is never compromise. Lord help us... oh is that ok to say??? Hope I didn't offend anyone. Lol....
I agree with this. I served 5 years as a army ranger and I have been in combat. I have bleed for this country as well. I feel that there is not a compromise with a liberal. They are so out of touch with reality that it isn't even funny. Why should I compromise a God given right. I have committed no atrocities what so ever. I feel sick because I volunteered and fought for everyone in our great country to be free . Some in this great country do not deserve these freedoms that I helped to provide. I am ashamed at how weak we have become. You can't say anything without hurting someone's feelings and everyone gets a participation trophy. It's horrible. You start compromising our right to bear arms and everyone will see where this country will wind up. If you all trust this government to take care of you , well I feel sorry for you. Make no mistake , they want all Guns not just certain ones. They will chip away until they achieve this goal. This is not a speculation but a fact. Sorry for a long post but I'm really frustrated. I will say this in closing , I will never surrender one of my guns and that's just a fact. I am not trying to act tough or be a key board warrior but you can take that to the bank. I hope that there are alot of my brothers and sisters that feel the same way and has that conviction. Everyone has a right to their opinion , thanked to our first amendment. Infringe on the 2nd and watch the rest fall like a house of cards.
I will say this right now. If it comes down to fighting for my guns or surrendering them, I will surrender them. I love my guns but not anywhere close to how much I love my family! If it really comes down to that, and the government confiscates our guns, then I will not fight because it will be a losing battle for sure. My family is far more important than any gun I will ever own. Anyone who thinks that the government will not be successful in taking our guns if and when they ever want to is a fool. If given the choice between living with my family or dying with my guns, I'm taking family every time! Yup, guess I am a coward. I just hope the rest of you don't have to prove that you're hero's!
guess I'm a fool then, because I'm not surrendering no guns at all. I love my family very much, so much that I would die for them protecting them from what ever wolf is at the door. Unarmed in this day and time is utterly stupid. I hope that I don't ever have to prove that I'm a hero, but my family will not be sheep led to the slaughter.
I agree with this. I served 5 years as a army ranger and I have been in combat. I have bleed for this country as well. I feel that there is not a compromise with a liberal. They are so out of touch with reality that it isn't even funny. Why should I compromise a God given right. I have committed no atrocities what so ever. I feel sick because I volunteered and fought for everyone in our great country to be free . Some in this great country do not deserve these freedoms that I helped to provide. I am ashamed at how weak we have become. You can't say anything without hurting someone's feelings and everyone gets a participation trophy. It's horrible. You start compromising our right to bear arms and everyone will see where this country will wind up. If you all trust this government to take care of you , well I feel sorry for you. Make no mistake , they want all Guns not just certain ones. They will chip away until they achieve this goal. This is not a speculation but a fact. Sorry for a long post but I'm really frustrated. I will say this in closing , I will never surrender one of my guns and that's just a fact. I am not trying to act tough or be a key board warrior but you can take that to the bank. I hope that there are alot of my brothers and sisters that feel the same way and has that conviction. Everyone has a right to their opinion , thanked to our first amendment. Infringe on the 2nd and watch the rest fall like a house of cards.
[/quote] Spitten and Drummen... This Country needs more men like you. God bless