I did get plenty of replys to Silent Spring. Members here should read that article in the APRIL- Outdoor Life. If you live in one of the states where there is a wild turkey decline----your state game dept (might) take steps. They might shorten your spring season before they mess with the bag limit. ALABAMA is list at a 20% decline and MISSISSIPPI has a larger decline. Some of those states listed do not even have a FALL turkey season!
I live in NEW YORK and this just happened to us! Last summer their was a (45 day) public input about changing the FALL TURKEY SEASON. I had no idea and found out by accident! Quickly i I wrote a 5-page hand written letter and mailed it in. All the turkey hunters that I talked to on the street also had no idea and were pissed to put it mildly. It was all done under the table! My Fall season was (SLASHED) from 6 weeks to just 2! And the bag limit was cut by 50%---from 2 Fall birds to just 1. So, by all means WATCH your own state game depts and make sure this does not happen to you as well!
I would hope this was all a temporary measure taken, so populations can rebound.
If populations drop and I would expect seasons shortened and bag limits reduced. I am all for it if it needs to be done. I love to hunt these birds as much as anybody however I also want them to thrive as a species. Now I believe that all the affiliated governing bodies to be up front about it but I believe in many areas we need to slow our roll a bit. Turkey hunting is becoming hugely popular and with all the new fads out there more birds are being killed than ever before. Throw in the decline of trapping, predator numbers rising and add in a few wet springs and you have a recipe for a huge drop in bird numbers. I have my own ideas on how to take care of some of those issues but they wouldn't be popular with many people.
if your state has a declining turkey population just have your officials contact the WV DNR and offer them something useful like house cats, or flying squirrels or maybe umbrellas. they'll jump on that trade and trap a truck load and bring them right to you.
that might sound sarcastic but it's true. they've traded our turkeys for some strange things in the past several decades. our turkey population goes up and down in different areas not always due to natural occurrences but due to the DNR trapping them from those areas for trade fodder.
This has happened in Arkansas over the past several year...for just about all hunting. Turkey season doesn't open until April 16 this year, deer population is threatened by CWD due to the introduction (and under harvesting) of elk, hogs have taken over due to them dragging their feet, and NOW they is talk of banning 3" or longer shells on public land for duck hunting!!!!!!!!
IMHO, I see Arkansas going in the same direction as many other states. Slowly regulate the hunting to diminish the amount of hunters.......some call it conspiracy, I call it history. Check out Illinois/Iowa turkey season and then check out the population....more birds than you can shake a stick at, good luck hunting them.
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Why should Would anyone be mad that the state is trying to help the population and make it grow? That is just greedy and foolish!
Quote from: Happy on April 09, 2016, 01:33:47 PM
If populations drop and I would expect seasons shortened and bag limits reduced. I am all for it if it needs to be done. I love to hunt these birds as much as anybody however I also want them to thrive as a species. Now I believe that all the affiliated governing bodies to be up front about it but I believe in many areas we need to slow our roll a bit. Turkey hunting is becoming hugely popular and with all the new fads out there more birds are being killed than ever before. Throw in the decline of trapping, predator numbers rising and add in a few wet springs and you have a recipe for a huge drop in bird numbers. I have my own ideas on how to take care of some of those issues but they wouldn't be popular with many people.
Could not have said it better myself!!
Quote from: snapper1982 on April 09, 2016, 02:40:06 PM
Why should Would anyone be mad that the state is trying to help the population and make it grow? That is just greedy and foolish!
I don't think that is the issue...it has happened so many times in the past that a "game authority" steps in too soon or too late, most of the time it is due to under research and shots in the dark.
I participated in a Ohio small game survey.
In the comments I asked why there was no BIG GAME or deer and turkey survey. Numbers where I hunt are very low for both. Comments from many others around my area are the same.
A Wildlife biologist replied to my questions with their is a deer and turkey survey.
Funny I've never been sent or invited to one.
I think they don't want to hear what we want to say. I replied to him, State Farm insurance reported a record low for deer collisions in our state last year. I bet they are happy now.
Maybe we have better, more aware drivers? I think not.
I also referred him to your article Beyond Silent spring. As of now I've gotten no reply.
Imo, I think tags for both should be cut to 1. At least for a couple seasons here in Ohio. But that's less income for the DNR. I'd fully support shorter seasons.
Good to see the common sense thoughts. We need to conserve when necessary n be more lenient in harvest when populations are good
I've worked with, and know, numerous game biologist. Contrary to some belief, it is not their goal in life to p*** off hunters. They are stewards that have been tasked with MANAGING wildlife, for the benefit of all - hunters, citizens, and the wildlife itself. Maintaining a sustainable, huntable population of game species sometimes requires adjustments. Season length and bag limit changes are usually the first to be scrutinized - since they are the tool which achieves the results.
The biologists that I personally know that are in charge of deer, bear, turkey, etc. actually hunt themselves. They are hunters. They are one of us.
It's easy for us, as individuals, to cast opinions about the size of flocks and herds in our own neck of the woods but most of the time there is a bigger picture involved. As hunters we have a tendency to quickly criticize that which does not suit us.
Quote from: Spurs on April 09, 2016, 03:56:30 PM
Quote from: snapper1982 on April 09, 2016, 02:40:06 PM
Why should Would anyone be mad that the state is trying to help the population and make it grow? That is just greedy and foolish!
I don't think that is the issue...it has happened so many times in the past that a "game authority" steps in too soon or too late, most of the time it is due to under research and shots in the dark.
The game depts do move way too slowly. However you used to be able to drive through lots of NY where he is discussing n see birds from the road, in every field n gravel pit. This year the population is slightly up from the previous couple of years but nothing like 20 or so years ago. I say it's about time to fix things
If populations are dropping I want seasons being shortened and bag limits being reduced.
New York waited 5 years too many to do anything about its turkey numbers just like many southern states have as well. We need a faster more responsive approach by DNR and less selfish hunters who are focused more on the health of the resource instead of how many tags we can fill.
There are several counties in WV that haven't had a fall season in years. Some say it's because of "this" or "that" but I've gotten a chance to speak to a few of the biologists for reasoning behind this. The answers were simple and to the point and made some sense in some regards and hardly any in others. Here goes:
"Some counties don't offer a fall season because of the low spring season kill. If there's not enough birds there in the spring, why kill them in the fall?" I understand this to some degree. However, when looking at Jefferson county that's loaded with birds and everything is tied up in private hands that only allow a few family members to hunt it, probably not the best logic. When looking at Braxton and Lewis counties that have the highest number of predators that I've ever seen, it makes total sense to me. These counties are going to need higher regulation to keep the populations growing or at least stable.
"Some of the counties that are off limits to fall hunting are "trapping" counties. This is where we catch birds and move them to another part of the state." Totally get it. It would suck to be hunting birds in the fall, get ready to pull the trigger and watch a huge net get blasted over the top of the entire flock.
While I don't feel things have been done well in this state to conserve our deer population, they've done a much better job at trying to conserve our turkeys. I'm thankful for that. I've said in many previous posts that I've been primarily a rifle hunter when it comes to turkeys. Most have still been shot while within easy shotgun range. A few otherwise but they have been the exception to the rule. We get lots of guys that will not even bother to carry a call and will simply watch a field to shoot one at 200+ yards. If the state said today that they're doing away with rifles to help save the turkey population, again, I'd be up for that too. Kind of makes me sound like a typing contradiction but I've switched to the shotgun anyway. They gotta do what they gotta do. Apologies for the long post.
Quote from: quavers59 on April 09, 2016, 11:11:54 AM
I did get plenty of replys to Silent Spring. Members here should read that article in the APRIL- Outdoor Life. If you live in one of the states where there is a wild turkey decline----your state game dept (might) take steps. They might shorten your spring season before they mess with the bag limit. ALABAMA is list at a 20% decline and MISSISSIPPI has a larger decline. Some of those states listed do not even have a FALL turkey season!
I live in NEW YORK and this just happened to us! Last summer their was a (45 day) public input about changing the FALL TURKEY SEASON. I had no idea and found out by accident! Quickly i I wrote a 5-page hand written letter and mailed it in. All the turkey hunters that I talked to on the street also had no idea and were pissed to put it mildly. It was all done under the table! My Fall season was (SLASHED) from 6 weeks to just 2! And the bag limit was cut by 50%---from 2 Fall birds to just 1. So, by all means WATCH your own state game depts and make sure this does not happen to you as well!
Sounds to me like they are doing the job they are paid to do. You should feel lucky that the state is so proactive about it. As already mentioned with the problems in Arkansas,we have had ups downs and way downs with our deer population. Starting to sell gun tags over the counter,unlimited archery doe tags,and 2 summers of a BAD EHD left our deer population lower than I had seen it since the late '80's . The state did noting and several years the population was bad. Places that you could in the past see 8-10 deer in an evenings sit you could sit for days and see 2 or 3. Yes there were pockets that the numbers were still up but over all . The state did nothing,because the insurance companies were happy. We took matters into our own hands. Our household would only kill 2 does period and a buck had to have at least 4 points on one side.
The deer have made turnaround but there are still places I wont shoot a doe.
I honestly wish they would just get rid of fall turkey hunting here and re vamp the way we can hunt in the spring .
If changes need to be made to boost turkey numbers then the thing that makes the most sense is cut back or eliminate the fall harvest. Hens are the reproductive unit and fall seasons generally allow hen harvest. Lots of hens die in fall seasons. If you want to increase your population you have to have enough egg layers, plain and simple. So you cut back on your hen harvest. In general, Spring seasons are timed so most of the breeding is done when the season starts or early in the season. At this point gobblers are 'excess'.
Quote from: quavers59 on April 09, 2016, 11:11:54 AM
I did get plenty of replys to Silent Spring. Members here should read that article in the APRIL- Outdoor Life. If you live in one of the states where there is a wild turkey decline----your state game dept (might) take steps. They might shorten your spring season before they mess with the bag limit. ALABAMA is list at a 20% decline and MISSISSIPPI has a larger decline. Some of those states listed do not even have a FALL turkey season!
I live in NEW YORK and this just happened to us! Last summer their was a (45 day) public input about changing the FALL TURKEY SEASON. I had no idea and found out by accident! Quickly i I wrote a 5-page hand written letter and mailed it in. All the turkey hunters that I talked to on the street also had no idea and were pissed to put it mildly. It was all done under the table! My Fall season was (SLASHED) from 6 weeks to just 2! And the bag limit was cut by 50%---from 2 Fall birds to just 1. So, by all means WATCH your own state game depts and make sure this does not happen to you as well!
What else would you have them do? So now you can only kill one fall bird, how many do you need? In PA we can only kill one fall bird and I never saw it as a bad thing. And a shorter season, well if it's in the best interest of the population then so be it. Here in PA we have a 1 bird fall limit and a 2 week season (in my area). I usually don't have any problem filling a tag. If turkey populations are dropping the first thing to do is shorten and limit the fall hunting and hen harvest. Everybody seems to want longer seasons and bigger bag limits but also a higher turkey population. You can't have your cake and eat it too!!
Dang, I wish they'd cut our limit from 4 to 3 in the spring. As far as fall, I ain't got no use for it once so ever. I don't think you should kill hens period, unless you had a serious over population problem and I don't think that's the case anywhere. A lot of counties around me had a ridiculous 6 bird fall season. Our population has been in decline for the last 7 or so years. Funny thing is some of the same ones now that are griping about not seeing or hearing birds were the same ones doing the grip and grin on Facebook with multiple hens in the fall season. Reap what you sow...
We don't have a Fall turkey season and I don't have a problem with that, because I'm not a Fall turkey hunter. North Carolina tried an experimental "Fall" season here about 10 years ago in the 5 counties with the highest turkey populations. It was actually more like a winter season. We got a lot (for here anyway) of snow and ice at the time, which didn't make turkey hunting much fun. I had jakes and hens in range a few times, but I couldn't make myself shoot them. My grandfather came up through the depression and he always taught me that it was counter-productive to kill your egg layers and your immature male turkeys. I didn't really grasp that until I got older, but it makes perfect sense to me now. I also didn't want to spend one of the two turkey tags we get here each year on a bird that weighs half of what a grown gobbler does. I love hunting Spring gobblers and I hope never to lose that opportunity.
It is too bad that your season has been shortened, but if it had not been trimmed, the turkey numbers would plummet from hunting pressure in the Spring, the Fall, adverse weather conditions, and natural predation. It likely wouldn't take long before you wouldn't have adequate numbers of turkeys to hunt at all. The wildlife department sets season and bag limits based on both surveys and game that was legally tagged & reported. So, if you know anybody who is taking game animals without tagging them, they're stealing from all of us. The wildlife department may go under the false assumption that game populations are higher than they actually are because reported kills were lower than expected. Mix in a wet spring or a long winter to that scenario, and before you know it, there's too few turkeys to hunt.
Now, I don't know what it is like in the areas you hunt or how effective your game department is, but what I do know is that more and more people are getting into hunting turkeys and newer tactics (decoys, pop-up blinds, extended range ammunition, super tight choke tubes, etc.) encourages more people to get out after turkeys and have pretty decent success doing it. Where I live (central North Carolina) the turkey populations have definitely increased, but not nearly as much as the human population has. Places that I thought would be farms and fields forever are now shopping centers, strip malls, and sub-divisions. Areas of public land I used to hunt anytime during the season without ever seeing another turkey hunter, are now managed by drawing for permits only. I've put in to that draw for 5 consecutive years and my name hasn't come up yet. How bad does that suck? But, I understand that the turkey population couldn't support a constant assault by hunters who know the land and would have the time to pursue the flock relentlessly if it weren't for the draw system that saves them for everybody (supposedly) to get the chance to hunt. It is a public resource on public land and it has to be managed for the good of the flock and the hunting public alike. Our wildlife department isn't out to screw us over, they're doing what they're paid to do, manage the resource.
I hope you get the most out of your turkey season, however long it ends up being. I also hope the local turkey flock rebounds and expands beyond your wildest dreams. Remember, it was less than 100 years ago that wildlife laws, firearm restrictions, hunting seasons, and bag limits had to be enacted, because too many people were demanding too much of a limited resource and it was suffering severely. We used to have a species called the passenger pigeon in North America that was hunted to extinction. It is said that their numbers used to darken the sun and the sportsmen of the time would kill thousands of them a day. That practice didn't get stopped soon enough and every generation since then will never know, see, or get to appreciate them. It may not feel right that some of your hunting season is being cut temporarily, but you have to think big picture.
Jim
Quote from: perrytrails on April 09, 2016, 04:26:36 PM
I participated in a Ohio small game survey.
In the comments I asked why there was no BIG GAME or deer and turkey survey. Numbers where I hunt are very low for both. Comments from many others around my area are the same.
A Wildlife biologist replied to my questions with their is a deer and turkey survey.
Funny I've never been sent or invited to one.
I think they don't want to hear what we want to say. I replied to him, State Farm insurance reported a record low for deer collisions in our state last year. I bet they are happy now.
Maybe we have better, more aware drivers? I think not.
I also referred him to your article Beyond Silent spring. As of now I've gotten no reply.
Imo, I think tags for both should be cut to 1. At least for a couple seasons here in Ohio. But that's less income for the DNR. I'd fully support shorter seasons.
there is a deer and turkey survey and i have been sent them for many years. Last years turkey survey had several questions on supporting reduced bag limits and lottery style hunts.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on April 09, 2016, 04:57:33 PM
If populations are dropping I want seasons being shortened and bag limits being reduced.
New York waited 5 years too many to do anything about its turkey numbers just like many southern states have as well. We need a faster more responsive approach by DNR and less selfish hunters who are focused more on the health of the resource instead of how many tags we can fill.
As a New Yorker, I agree. It seems as though the bird population in my area is starting to get better but I would be ok with our season being limited to one bird or our fall being eliminated for a couple years. IMO we as hunters can help this by also getting rid of the predators on our lands. Trapping has declined over the years and if we can boost this plus change turkey seasons based on population decreases, we can increase the turkey numbers but this is just another topic.....
Quote from: MDbowman on April 09, 2016, 05:59:33 PM
If changes need to be made to boost turkey numbers then the thing that makes the most sense is cut back or eliminate the fall harvest. Hens are the reproductive unit and fall seasons generally allow hen harvest. Lots of hens die in fall seasons. If you want to increase your population you have to have enough egg layers, plain and simple. So you cut back on your hen harvest. In general, Spring seasons are timed so most of the breeding is done when the season starts or early in the season. At this point gobblers are 'excess'.
Well said not to take away fall seasons but some flocks need to rebound from bad spring hatches,predators and brutal winters of last year and the year before I'm all for some sacrifice for the good of the birds
I don't know what caused the decline, and apparently the biologists don't know for sure either. But they did close my county to ALL turkey hunting, and about 14 others around me. They are now Super=Stocking and say my county will be closed for at least five years to let them grow.
Give up your fall season or drop a bird from your limit before you get to that point.
They should stop spring season and allow 1 fall gobbler.
1st page says Illinois an Iowa has more turkeys than you can.shake a stick at!! I am from Illinois an that's funny right there....lmao....we only get one week per permit...you can get multiple permits in alot of counties....i live in McLean county ..you can get 1 for sure an your dang lucky to get two...i had better watch out this year...i might get trampled by all the turkeys..lmao
The NY situation was the states knee jerk reaction to spring hunters crying about no birds. Something had to be done right. Truth is to everyone who commented about shooting hens in the fall. It makes virtually no difference to the populations. Predators, disease & mostly bad nesting seasons are the reasons there are fewer birds. Everyone got spoiled with 2 year olds running in to calls when populations were high. Now numbers have settled back down & you have to work for birds. They are there but you have to work harder. I know there are way more in ny still today then when I started hunting them in the 80`s. All the fall hunters got punished by the state. Mike
Long time NY turkey hunter for over 30 years. I also was taken back by the fall season reduction. Closing a fall season down will not solve this. It may help but fall hunting does not impact the population at all. I posted here a few weeks ago about LPDV and Avain Pox and how the NY DEC are very worried about this. It is like cancer that effects birds and they grow tumers around places like their eyes and that are easy targets to predators. There is talk that it may be spread by spreading chicken manure in farming fields. I encourage everyone to google this and get informed about the real reason for the decline. It's not just NY it all over.
Turkaholic, great post & accurate. On the bright side we are seeing alot Dutchess right now. Mike
I don't know I'm happy with the shortened and reduced fall season in NY. But I'll disclaimer that I really only care about spring turkey hunting because in the fall I'm chasing much larger big game animals with the bow and prefer to leave birds where I hunt for the spring.
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Just a heads up to the other New Yorkers here. If you go to the DEC's website, you can sign up to receive "newsletters" from the Conservation Dept. You can choose the topics You'd like to be notified about and receive them by Email. I stumbled across it and signed up for several different topics a year or so ago and one of the Emails they sent me was about our declining turkey populations, possible measures to be taken and the comment period they had on it.
They asked what we'd like to see done about it and what we'd be willing to do on our end. Obviously, I'd like to see more turkeys here. I don't expect to see birds like we had during the "turkey boom" period we had here at one time, but almost anything would be better than the past several years. Last year in particular, was ridiculous.
I wasn't able to scout much this past spring, so I didn't realise just how much worse things had gotten from just the previous year. The first few days of season last spring, I didn't hear a bird. I killed one the third day and continued to hunt. When it dawned on me what was going on, I quit hunting and wished I hadn't killed the bird I did. I didn't hunt last fall either for the first time in many years, for the same reason.
In my comments to the DEC, I told them I'd stand behind them and do whatever it takes to help the birds. Be it shorter seasons, lower bag limits, or a closed season until they rebound. I have a deep respect for these big birds and I'll do anything I can to help them. If we hunters aren't willing to do our part to try and help the birds, I don't know who will. You can bet it won't be the anti gun/anti hunting crowd.
If any of you other NY'rs are interested in getting the newsletters from the DEC, you can find the application page on their website, or just google it. They have some interesting topics. I didn't sign up for every one they offered, but I get several different Emails from them each week on different outdoor related subjects.
Bob
I know several different guys here locally that shoot 4-6 birds each spring, when our bag limit is 2 bearded turkeys, and these guys are some of the first to complain about the lack of birds. It makes me wonder how many people there are like this throughout the state. Not that I think their solely responsible for the problems we have here, but it can't help and it seems to me that they don't care as long as they get theirs... and mine, and yours. It's a greed filled, cutthroat world out there and sadly, it seems to have crept into turkey hunting too. Common sense and common courtesy seem to be declining as fast as our NY birds. Sorry, I'm getting off track.
Bob
Quote from: OldSchool on April 10, 2016, 10:57:49 AM
I know several different guys here locally that shoot 4-6 birds each spring, when our bag limit is 2 bearded turkeys, and these guys are some of the first to complain about the lack of birds. It makes me wonder how many people there are like this throughout the state. Not that I think their solely responsible for the problems we have here, but it can't help and it seems to me that they don't care as long as they get theirs... and mine, and yours. It's a greed filled, cutthroat world out there and sadly, it seems to have crept into turkey hunting too. Common sense and common courtesy seem to be declining as fast as our NY birds. Sorry, I'm getting off track.
Bob
They're stealing from your kids Bob, report em
Quote from: jed clampett on April 09, 2016, 09:58:49 PM
1st page says Illinois an Iowa has more turkeys than you can.shake a stick at!! I am from Illinois an that's funny right there....lmao....we only get one week per permit...you can get multiple permits in alot of counties....i live in McLean county ..you can get 1 for sure an your dang lucky to get two...i had better watch out this year...i might get trampled by all the turkeys..lmao
Sorry bout your luck...been up there for two years working in Livingston county....wrapped up with birds on what little bit of public there is.
Also, I worked in several other counties from there to the Mississippi River and every spot that "looked good", actually had birds.
I never got to hunt because getting a NR tag must be like seeing a unicorn.
First off let me tell you about my self i live in arkansas now but used to live in upstate ny where i guided many turkey hunters to birds . the recent decline of turkey in ny is do to the animal called the fisher once they expanded there grounds turkeys and grouse took a big decline fisher were once a mountain animal that took some skill and knowledge to trap now there easy as pie .now back to point the ny dec has expanded trapping zones for them but is to late for the turkeys when u combine ice storms along with fishers and poachers thats a huge impact . If people would like to see a comeback just shoot a adult bird or none at all use some self restraint nobody forces you to shoot two birds or hunt hens in the fall.As for arkansas i wrk on a cattle ranch and see very litle birds boss says 15 yrs ago there were tons around well i trap full time and i can tell you this coyotes and bobcat and roadrunners birds have inpact on this.please dont grip cause season is short and bag limits are small just call in birds and nobody but u can force you to shoot them . I love to call birds as much as anybody else but im not griping at the dnr. p.s my wife say she will fill her tag at Krogers .sorry so long winded .
Habitat is the limiting factor of turkey production... Weather can influence habitat and spring breeding as well.
I am not a fall turkey hunter, but killing a few hens in the fall probably makes little to no difference in the scheme of things.
All that being said, I am a huge fan of regulations based on science. If the populations allow for increased hunting (either season or limits or fall season) then allow it... If populations are suffering, reductions in seasons and limits are probably appropriate.
Regulations based on feel-good politics... I am not such a fan of. (We see this all too frequently with waterfowl limits and certain species).
just how do you figure killing hens in fall has no impact ? Just think if you have limited amount of hens you limit the amount of poults in spring were is your logic behind the theory of it dont hurt to kills females. just look at the pa deer herd or ny herd
Quote from: arthur on April 10, 2016, 01:11:17 PM
just how do you figure killing hens in fall has no impact ? Just think if you have limited amount of hens you limit the amount of poults in spring were is your logic behind the theory of it dont hurt to kills females. just look at the pa deer herd or ny herd
Biologist say that 10%,of the estimated population, is a safe number for fall turkey harvest. Hens are part of the 10%.
Long seasons and 3-4 tom in the spring limits. Missouri does not have that and there are now many areas with hardly a bird at all. 3 sections of land that used to hold around 30 toms were down to 4-5. Very little change in the land. Cattle pasture , hay fields and crp and woodlots, some row crop from crp, around 160 acres. Know everyone that lives and/or hunts in that area, no big increase in hunters.
Coyotes have been thick there for years. Only new thing is bobcats and otters. Less turkeys now than since 1980. 12 years ago or so the quail went way down, then 5 years later the pheasant, then turkey, now deer. Been turkey hunting since 78. Agree with the following.
Quote from: turkaholic on April 10, 2016, 07:00:07 AM
Long time NY turkey hunter for over 30 years. I also was taken back by the fall season reduction. Closing a fall season down will not solve this. It may help but fall hunting does not impact the population at all. I posted here a few weeks ago about LPDV and Avain Pox and how the NY DEC are very worried about this. It is like cancer that effects birds and they grow tumers around places like their eyes and that are easy targets to predators. There is talk that it may be spread by spreading chicken manure in farming fields. I encourage everyone to google this and get informed about the real reason for the decline. It's not just NY it all over.
Quote from: arthur on April 10, 2016, 01:11:17 PM
just how do you figure killing hens in fall has no impact ? Just think if you have limited amount of hens you limit the amount of poults in spring were is your logic behind the theory of it dont hurt to kills females. just look at the pa deer herd or ny herd
The single biggest limiting factor for game production is habitat...
There are actually studies that show that with limited habitat, production will improve with lower populations. If hens are competing for resources, poult and hen survival with decrease. With limited resources and too many breeding hens, there will be more competition for food and nesting, more fighting, and a higher percentage of mortality of nesting hens.
There is a certain degree or mortality whether or not we hunt these birds, and from all I know, hunting has very little effect on the mortality rates, unless populations are at low levels.
And, you cannot always compare one species to another... Valley quail for instance breed in pairs, and killing only males is far more deleterious than killing equal numbers of both genders.
And although I do not deer hunt, comparing deer populations, California does not allow shooting does. We have a very unbalanced populations with does far outnumbering bucks, and many of those does are not breeding due to this (at least according to much of what I have read)
Also, it seems that nature has a way of balancing things out. If the hen populations start to outnumber the gobblers by too much, it is my understanding that more gobblers will be hatched.
Mother Nature has a way of working things out, and just like dealing with any other woman, things are not always as intuitive as they seem.
I stand by the fact that solid biology and science should be used in determining bag limits and season length. With solid science behind the regulations, it is then up to use individually to make some decisions from there.
Very good replys here!!!
As a New york Turkey hunter myself for 25 yrs I am glad they did what they did and in my opinion should close the fall season for a while. I done even see an issue with adjusting the spring season as needed. In the fall I see to many guys out bow hunting deer take a bird because they have the turkey tag and a bird walked by. Many people dont even realize this is a big issue. We all think hey I dont see to many fall turkey hunters that wont solve anything. The by catch kill is bigger then you would expect.