Just that.
Under what circumstances do you or would you shoot a jake ??
Never ??
If it's the last day or two and you have an unfilled tag ??
Whenever you see one ??
Something other ??
Just curious.........
Me ??
I can only think of one occasion, now, where I would shoot a jake.
My younger son is a special needs individual. I am TRYING to get him to try turkey hunting. I won't push. But, IF at some point he'd go.........and we could double........ I'd shoot regardless of whether they were jakes or longbeards.
Other than that......... never.
If I did it would be a total accident. If my young son decides he wants to, I would be ok with it. We wouldn't make a habit out of it.
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Just for a memory. If my grandchild wanted to shoot one and I could double with them, I might do it. For myself, I don't need to shoot Jake's. I take a lot of young or new hunters. If they want to take one, I have no issue with it. Z
When I started Turkey hunting long ago, I harvested a few Jake's. Birds were plentiful in my early years. Today, I let them pass. Population decreases and pressure in my areas led me to the decision to harvest gobblers only. This is just the way I hunt now, there is no right or wrong here IMO. Jake's can provide a thrilling hunt for those who choose to harvest them.....
I think the advice given to me by a wise older deer hunter regarding deer also applies to turkeys. "The first rule for shooting big bucks is don't shoot little bucks.' Just substitute turkey.
Only when its a case of mistaken identity.
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I don't shoot jakes, unfortunately through the years have killed two or three by mistake.
I want a bird to gobble and come to the call, that is my main criteria. When we had a two bird limit I would occasionally shoot a Jake if he met that criteria, but it wasn't something I done the first 10 days of season. It has been years since I shot one. I would always shoot an adult bird with my other tag. The only reason I exclude jakes is because they are the seed for the future, it has nothing to do with a bird's beard, spur, body size or trophy value. However, if I find myself at the end of season and I am having a hard time filling a tag I will shoot a nice big jake in a heartbeat, I intend to have a turkey to eat. We enjoy eating them and the meat has more value then the feathers, spurs and beards in my house. In the end I hunt turkeys for that interaction between me and him, a jake can fulfill that just as easy as a longbeard. I always tell people who hunt with me to shoot whatever they want. Biologically there's no science says passing on jakes makes more turkeys that I know of. All other game bird species we shoot adults and juveniles the same and their populations are not devastated by it, like pheasants. I have a few questions to ask on this as well. Why do we look at a Jake differently and pass on them. There has been a lot of discussion on scoring in that thread. Are we applying trophy standards to not shooting jakes, in other words are we embarrassed over shooting a jake. I admit they are a bit more gullible, but often a lot of fun. If a birds score is not important then why pass Jakes, other then leaving them for the future.
This year Jakes are next year gobblers. But never say never... IMO
First turkey 30 years ago was a Jake. Have killed a few thru the years but any in the last 20 years were a case of mistaken identity (2 I can think of). I'd have to be on the verge of starvation to knowingly shoot a Jake today
Negative
Personally I'm past it. New hunters I get it, especially with a kid on a limited schedule but if there's a chance to hunt tomorrow let them walk. Learn from the experience and enjoy your time afield.
Shot one ever, he gobbled like a man at the end of season, was really thick and only saw his head, he got it, shocked he was a jake.
One other time I was just about to do the same, thick again late season, fortunately he jumped up on a log to get a better look.
I don't care if someone shoots Jake's, they just aren't the same experience most times!
Never! I view jakes as most do, as seed for next year. They are also very easily called into a setup and seem to have not fully developed their senses of apprehension and caution. Even if it's the last day of the season and I haven't killed a bird I wouldn't shoot a jake. My desire to fill a tag is not that important compared to the possibility of hearing that same jake blowing it out next season as a two year old. On property that I manage and control, a jake can be taken only if it's someone's first bird. As for others, it's a legal bird and I have no problem with anyone shooting one. It's an individual choice each has to make for themselves. If you're enjoying the hunt and are content to harvest a jake, there's no shame in doing so. It's just not for me or compatible with the goals for the property I manage.
Never under any circumstances
I don't promote jake harvests but I know there is case's of mistaken identity and I know most kids think a turkey is just that a turkey. So in states with just a 1 bird limit they should be allowed to be harvested, but in states with multiple tags i would want to see only one tag could be used for a jake. Me personally I won't shoot one unless it would be a mistaken identity.
I would not shoot a jake.
When I started hunting turkeys some 15 years ago, a buddy of mine told me that you can shoot jakes until you kill your first gobbler. Once you cross that line, you can NEVER go back! My first bird was a gobbler, so I plan on upholding this Tradition. For youth and first-time hunters, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't allow it. I personally won't shoot a bearded hen either (in States where it states bearded bird). I've had plenty of opportunities for this, as well.
Most Jakes don't survive until the second year, and not only that but Jakes do no breeding. If they do, they aren't fertile. So realistically, killing a Jake has zero impact on the population, where as killing a breeding gobbler during breeding season does. I'm not above shooting a Jake, and if he comes in gobbling, he's taking a ride in my truck. I don't discriminate. I get very few days to hunt anymore and it's what I dream about every day, at least once a hour, all year long.
Here is a scenario that is very likely to happen in my life
After working 36 days straight, I get a day off, I have no clue when I might get my next one, I found a piece of public that surprisingly doesn't have 10 trucks at it, I am in god's creation, watching the spring woods wake up, feeling the cold morning air, hearing whipoor wills, and the little birds, a turkey gobbles, on the mountain, I climb 1,300 feet straight up, I respond, he gobbles again, closer, I respond, he goes silent. My heart is in my throat, my palms are sweating, I have no clue how everything can't hear my heart beating, 5 minutes later a red head pops up and he has a 4 or 5" beard, long legs, a Jake. I've played the game, I've won, and I'm pulling the trigger. It makes no difference to me if he has button spurs and a 4" beard or 1 1/2" spurs and a 11" beard. Once I get home, the kids ohh and aww over it a little, we take a picture and then the spurs and beard go in a box with the rest of them. The real trophy was the experience and that fine eating you can't get elsewhere.
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Me, never have, never will. I'll leave those to new and younger hunters for the experience and introduction to the sport. If that's what they choose.
I would not shoot a Jake on purpose. Nor would I let my child. In my opinion the goal of turkey hunting is to outsmart and harvest a longbeard. Not a hen, not a jake, but a longbeard.
To each his own. Shoot what you want as long as it's legal.
When I started turkey hunting 25 years ago I made the decision to not shoot jakes, I can not remember why I made that decision but I did and stuck to it. I have had a few opportunity to shoot jakes and did not shoot. My daughter had a jake within 10 feet a couple years ago and did not shoot. I do not have anything againt shooting a jake I just don't
1st turkey I took was a super Jake, gobbled like a mature Tom, came from 300yds, I bumped his hen out after she caught me moving, luckily, she flew opposite direction, he gobbled and strutted across the field to decoy, I was super happy to take him and have a display on wall with his fan, spurs and 4" beard. Fought a super jake last year, had a great gobble, couldn't believe he was a Jake, had him in full strut at 25yds. We, hopefully, have a date again this year..
I personally don't shoot jakes but that is just me. If someone else wants shot a jake thats up to them. I don't get upset about it.
I'll start by saying I have killed a few in my life but it's been a really long time since that has happened and wouldn't knowingly shoot one now for nothing. I hate to see anyone shoot a Jake other than a child but on the other hand I know mistakes happen. When I say a few I can count on one hand. My first turkey was a Jake 44 years ago and I remember that hunt like it was yesterday. The others have been what you could call accidental and made me sick when I walk up to them. Anyone that has killed very many has had a mess up or two. Most specially if you hunt mountains, a lot of the time all you get to look at is from his eyeball up. You either shoot or don't shoot that is the only chance you get. I've let Toms get away from me because I wasn't 100% sure.
So never say never because it can happen.
Jakes are FULLY capable of breeding and fertilizing.
They're usually discouraged from doing so.
A number of years ago I did shoot a Jake. Then each year i got better at honing my craft. The thrill for me is calling the bird in, not the kill.
As I became a better / more skillful hunter, I used the jaker's to upgrade my skill set.
I began see to Jakes as practice dekes, try this, try that.
I enjoy watching and letting them walk. Knowing if they come back next year they probably won't be quite so lucky.
So if you want to shoot a Jake it's OK by me. But the real thrill is to lure ol' tom in.
Killed a few in my early days. Made a rule for myself to not to anymore. Later home state made it illegal and I'm glad they did. That's just my opinion. My truth is while I eat every bird, it is not why I hunt them.
I never have in over 20yrs of hunting other than in the fall season...
I leave the Spring season to only longbeards,but thats just me and i think whatever makes a guy happy and kept coming back to the sport is whats important..
My Son will shoot one on occasion if hes hunted hard and its crunch time..He lives&breathes turkey hunting and its his hunt..Myself im old and just like keeping on my spring longbeard streak and dont need to kill something that bad..He's getting more that way with age..
Quote from: eggshell on March 27, 2024, 07:52:25 AM
I want a bird to gobble and come to the call, that is my main criteria. When we had a two bird limit I would occasionally shoot a Jake if he met that criteria, but it wasn't something I done the first 10 days of season. It has been years since I shot one. I would always shoot an adult bird with my other tag. The only reason I exclude jakes is because they are the seed for the future, it has nothing to do with a bird's beard, spur, body size or trophy value. However, if I find myself at the end of season and I am having a hard time filling a tag I will shoot a nice big jake in a heartbeat, I intend to have a turkey to eat. We enjoy eating them and the meat has more value then the feathers, spurs and beards in my house. In the end I hunt turkeys for that interaction between me and him, a jake can fulfill that just as easy as a longbeard. I always tell people who hunt with me to shoot whatever they want. Biologically there's no science says passing on jakes makes more turkeys that I know of. All other game bird species we shoot adults and juveniles the same and their populations are not devastated by it, like pheasants. I have a few questions to ask on this as well. Why do we look at a Jake differently and pass on them. There has been a lot of discussion on scoring in that thread. Are we applying trophy standards to not shooting jakes, in other words are we embarrassed over shooting a jake. I admit they are a bit more gullible, but often a lot of fun. If a birds score is not important then why pass Jakes, other then leaving them for the future.
This. I shot a jake on some public because he came in ripping gobbles. I had to walk a mile in the dark to get to said spot. So it just was my hunt so I pulled the trigger. Generally no, I'm not going to shoot Jake's tho.
Me personally no plans on shooting one. I've shot three in my life, my first bird ever and two others early on in my turkey hunting. If my young kids want to take one, I'm good with that. Like others have said, maybe if it meant a father/daughter double, I might consider it, but not likely.
Bang bang dinner!!
Quote from: ScottTaulbee on March 27, 2024, 09:45:14 AM
Most Jakes don't survive until the second year, and not only that but Jakes do no breeding. If they do, they aren't fertile. So realistically, killing a Jake has zero impact on the population, where as killing a breeding gobbler during breeding season does. I'm not above shooting a Jake, and if he comes in gobbling, he's taking a ride in my truck. I don't discriminate. I get very few days to hunt anymore and it's what I dream about every day, at least once a hour, all year long.
Here is a scenario that is very likely to happen in my life
After working 36 days straight, I get a day off, I have no clue when I might get my next one, I found a piece of public that surprisingly doesn't have 10 trucks at it, I am in god's creation, watching the spring woods wake up, feeling the cold morning air, hearing whipoor wills, and the little birds, a turkey gobbles, on the mountain, I climb 1,300 feet straight up, I respond, he gobbles again, closer, I respond, he goes silent. My heart is in my throat, my palms are sweating, I have no clue how everything can't hear my heart beating, 5 minutes later a red head pops up and he has a 4 or 5" beard, long legs, a Jake. I've played the game, I've won, and I'm pulling the trigger. It makes no difference to me if he has button spurs and a 4" beard or 1 1/2" spurs and a 11" beard. Once I get home, the kids ohh and aww over it a little, we take a picture and then the spurs and beard go in a box with the rest of them. The real trophy was the experience and that fine eating you can't get elsewhere.
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X2 Can't be said any better than this if you ask me.
I started turkey hunting as an adult. My first bird was a Jake. Kept the meat but didn't bother with the fan.
I haven't since then and probably wouldn't on my own (except MAYBE last day of season if I haven't had a chance at anything else). I'm not bothered if someone else chooses to.
When my 4-year-old was in the blind with me turkey hunting and a Jake came out to our decoys, I didn't even think twice. He got to hear them gobbling on the way in. He got to see them go into the decoys.
Shot one of the two that came in. We cleaned it and cooked it. He was thrilled. I also did the tail fan and it's hanging on the wall in his bedroom.
We're going to see how it goes with the .410 this spring (he's now 8 and we've been practicing with the Bog Death Grip). If he's up to it and wants to do it, I'll get him a youth tag. He's watched enough turkey hunting videos with me and heard turkey hunting talk that he'd obviously like to get a tom. I'm doing my best to talk about how great it is to get a turkey—tom or jake.
It'll be up to him if he gets the chance at a jake while we're out.
I have shot one after I got more experience. There was a gang of four that were running the Tom's off a small piece I hunted (watched them do it). He came in gobbling to my call straight from the limb with his 3 buddies in tow, strutting and bright head. I thought to myself, he came in like a longbeard so he took a truck ride like a longbeard. Later that season I had the other three gobbling and strutting at 6 yards! They got a pass. I killed one of the longbeards they were harassing at the end of the season.
The closer a jake is to 12 months old, the more likely he is to have viable sperm. There is no set date he becomes capable, it is variable.
My nephew shot one on public and we were both stunned when we walked up to him. A true super jake, like was probably the first bird hatched the prior year.
I support allowing jakes for children (ages 16 & under), the disabled, senior citizens and for apprentice/first year license adult hunters.
I'll bite my tongue when it comes to my honest feelings about experienced turkey hunters shooting jakes.
I don't really care one way or the other what other hunters do legally, but honestly wonder why others do so much. I chose not to almost all of the time-I made one exception on a gang of thugs (same for bearded hens-have passed the few times I had a shot). If you have a good population, the longbeards are gonna do the breeding anyway.
Where I live, you can kill one with a rifle and am 100% confident I could kill a gobbler right out my back door, but would not even remotely consider that. We all make our own rules to make it more sporting.
No for me. If I have a junior or a new hunter, then I'm good with it.
I killed a few jakes early in my turkey hunting career. I haven't shot one in years, nor do I intend to ever again.
However, with that being said, if jakes are legal where you hunt, and you want to get one, I'll wish you the best of luck.
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Quote from: ScottTaulbee on March 27, 2024, 09:45:14 AM
Most Jakes don't survive until the second year, and not only that but Jakes do no breeding. If they do, they aren't fertile. So realistically, killing a Jake has zero impact on the population, where as killing a breeding gobbler during breeding season does. I'm not above shooting a Jake, and if he comes in gobbling, he's taking a ride in my truck. I don't discriminate. I get very few days to hunt anymore and it's what I dream about every day, at least once a hour, all year long.
Here is a scenario that is very likely to happen in my life
After working 36 days straight, I get a day off, I have no clue when I might get my next one, I found a piece of public that surprisingly doesn't have 10 trucks at it, I am in god's creation, watching the spring woods wake up, feeling the cold morning air, hearing whipoor wills, and the little birds, a turkey gobbles, on the mountain, I climb 1,300 feet straight up, I respond, he gobbles again, closer, I respond, he goes silent. My heart is in my throat, my palms are sweating, I have no clue how everything can't hear my heart beating, 5 minutes later a red head pops up and he has a 4 or 5" beard, long legs, a Jake. I've played the game, I've won, and I'm pulling the trigger. It makes no difference to me if he has button spurs and a 4" beard or 1 1/2" spurs and a 11" beard. Once I get home, the kids ohh and aww over it a little, we take a picture and then the spurs and beard go in a box with the rest of them. The real trophy was the experience and that fine eating you can't get elsewhere.
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This is actually false. The Mississippi study conducted on jake mortality was only 6%. Effectively 94% of jakes made it to their second year of life.
To add to that, most recently Chamberlain recently released a study where 85% of gobblers in UNHUNTED populations survived annually.
Point being, male turkey mortality is most significantly influence by HUNTING.
How you view success and what you're looking for out of a hunt is certainly your personal prerogative but justifying killing a jake due to low survivability just isn't a thing.
Quote from: Vintage on March 27, 2024, 10:14:14 AM
To each his own. Shoot what you want as long as it's legal.
BINGO. Great reply. No elitist title for you. LOL. Btw - I really love this forum.
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on March 27, 2024, 05:09:22 PM
Quote from: ScottTaulbee on March 27, 2024, 09:45:14 AM
Most Jakes don't survive until the second year, and not only that but Jakes do no breeding. If they do, they aren't fertile. So realistically, killing a Jake has zero impact on the population, where as killing a breeding gobbler during breeding season does. I'm not above shooting a Jake, and if he comes in gobbling, he's taking a ride in my truck. I don't discriminate. I get very few days to hunt anymore and it's what I dream about every day, at least once a hour, all year long.
Here is a scenario that is very likely to happen in my life
After working 36 days straight, I get a day off, I have no clue when I might get my next one, I found a piece of public that surprisingly doesn't have 10 trucks at it, I am in god's creation, watching the spring woods wake up, feeling the cold morning air, hearing whipoor wills, and the little birds, a turkey gobbles, on the mountain, I climb 1,300 feet straight up, I respond, he gobbles again, closer, I respond, he goes silent. My heart is in my throat, my palms are sweating, I have no clue how everything can't hear my heart beating, 5 minutes later a red head pops up and he has a 4 or 5" beard, long legs, a Jake. I've played the game, I've won, and I'm pulling the trigger. It makes no difference to me if he has button spurs and a 4" beard or 1 1/2" spurs and a 11" beard. Once I get home, the kids ohh and aww over it a little, we take a picture and then the spurs and beard go in a box with the rest of them. The real trophy was the experience and that fine eating you can't get elsewhere.
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This is actually fals. The Mississippi study conducted on jake mortality was only 6%. Effectively 94% of jakes made it to their second year of life.
To add to that, most recently Chamberlain recently released a study where 85% of gobblers in UNHUNTED populations survived annually.
Point being, male turkey mortality is most significantly influence by HUNTING.
How you view success and what you're looking for out of a hunt is certainly your personal prerogative but justifying killing a jake due to low survivability just isn't a thing.
It is also illegal to kill a Jake in Mississippi unless you're a youth. That study means nothing to any state that doesn't follow the same laws.
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QuoteTo add to that, most recently Chamberlain recently released a study where 85% of gobblers in UNHUNTED populations survived annually.
Many years ago Ohio done a study on gobbler mortality to hunting and found 70 +/- % of all gobbler mortality was from hunting. We are way better at killing them than we give ourselves credit for.
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on March 27, 2024, 05:09:22 PM
Quote from: ScottTaulbee on March 27, 2024, 09:45:14 AM
Most Jakes don't survive until the second year, and not only that but Jakes do no breeding. If they do, they aren't fertile. So realistically, killing a Jake has zero impact on the population, where as killing a breeding gobbler during breeding season does. I'm not above shooting a Jake, and if he comes in gobbling, he's taking a ride in my truck. I don't discriminate. I get very few days to hunt anymore and it's what I dream about every day, at least once a hour, all year long.
Here is a scenario that is very likely to happen in my life
After working 36 days straight, I get a day off, I have no clue when I might get my next one, I found a piece of public that surprisingly doesn't have 10 trucks at it, I am in god's creation, watching the spring woods wake up, feeling the cold morning air, hearing whipoor wills, and the little birds, a turkey gobbles, on the mountain, I climb 1,300 feet straight up, I respond, he gobbles again, closer, I respond, he goes silent. My heart is in my throat, my palms are sweating, I have no clue how everything can't hear my heart beating, 5 minutes later a red head pops up and he has a 4 or 5" beard, long legs, a Jake. I've played the game, I've won, and I'm pulling the trigger. It makes no difference to me if he has button spurs and a 4" beard or 1 1/2" spurs and a 11" beard. Once I get home, the kids ohh and aww over it a little, we take a picture and then the spurs and beard go in a box with the rest of them. The real trophy was the experience and that fine eating you can't get elsewhere.
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This is actually fals. The Mississippi study conducted on jake mortality was only 6%. Effectively 94% of jakes made it to their second year of life.
To add to that, most recently Chamberlain recently released a study where 85% of gobblers in UNHUNTED populations survived annually.
Point being, male turkey mortality is most significantly influence by HUNTING.
How you view success and what you're looking for out of a hunt is certainly your personal prerogative but justifying killing a jake due to low survivability just isn't a thing.
As far as male turkey mortality, it's absolutely no secret that the most are killed by hunting. They have very few predators that will get them other than a hunter. My point is, why is shooting a Jake frowned upon?. You can't manage turkey like deer. You're pissing in the wind to try. You can't stock pile them and you can't expect the turkey you see today to be there next season. As far as a Jake vs a 2 year old gobbler. What is the difference other than 3" of beard and 1/4" of spur?. A two year old is no more wary than a Jake but hunters love em and some how it's more socially acceptable to shoot them?. I'd rather see someone shoot a Jake than reap a gobbler, shoot him at extended range, or decoy one in. But, if it's legal, knock yourself out. I hunt for me, not to be accepted in the "in crowd".
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This is my 3rd spring turkey season. Was able to tag two gobblers last year. My first spring season I missed my first gobbler I'd ever seen in shotgun range. About a week later hunting the same property I called a jake into about 20 yards. Once I identified it was a jake. I let him go on about his business as I started out my turkey journey wanting to harvest an adult bird. I didn't call anymore for about 30 minutes sitting in the same spot. This was on only about 40 acres so if I was kind of deer hunting and just blind calling every so often. Well I done another soft calling sequence and 5 minutes later this suicidal jake stepped in the same exact spot he was previously in. So I let him have it lol. I didn't feel bad about it seeing it was my first season and first bird and I was dang proud of him. His fan and beard are displayed in my home. But after that I have zero desire to shoot another jake whether I eat all my tags for that season or not. To each his own if they want to take a jake I don't stick my nose up to anyone however they want to hunt. But early on in my journey that's just the way I want to do it.
Never intentionally. But I have been fooled twice and walked up on a dead jake that I was expecting to be a longbeard
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I love to kill a nice long beard. BUT, if a Jake gives me a full hunt and I am in the correct mood I will kill them. Does not bother me a bit.
Matter of fact, looks like I need some Jake wings this year for calls. It's your hunt, do as you want. But no one should give a person a hard time for shooting a Spike, or a Jake.
I have some degree of access, and reasonable time to hunt currently...
I will pass on a jake the last day if I have already harvested a bird... Last one I shot was mistaken identity. (Clearly saw two toms coming to me through the brush. They were gobbling on the other side of some dense brush, and when one put his head up, I shot him only seeing his head. Two toms flew off with beards swinging, and I confusingly thought I missed until I heard the flopping in the brush).
I think those of us that are more particular, have time and access to hunt where birds are. If it is not detrimental to the population, and you want to shoot one, do so... They certainly eat better than some of the old tough toms I have taken.
I hunt some private areas, and some years there are lots of birds, and some years are tough... I do NOT believe in my area that hunting plays much, if any role in turkey populations... Disease, lack of food/water, and predation play far larger roles than hunters killing a couple jakes on these properties.
Have done it by mistake, and by mistake they fully gobbled and I actually thought I was looking at a beard when I wasn't . It messed me up for a while I was scared to pull the trigger but got over it . Even where legal, I don't , I'll go home empty handed
I've shot 3,in 30 years of hunting. 23 gibblers.
Not legal in my state , I wish every state would follow suit . Youth only .
I will pass on Jake's. If I am guiding someone its their call. I am pretty sure at this point that anyone I hunt with isn't going to pull the trigger either. My youngest boy passed on Jake's last springhoping for a longbeard and since he got his wish. It doesn't seem like they are on the table for him at this point either.
Good-looking and Platinum level member of the Elitist club
I am not against it per se, I am just against it for me in the Spring and I am not sure how I feel about it for me in the Fall, seems to make sense in the Fall since it will be an eating bird. (They are all eating birds but a younger piece of meat tastes better imo which is why I only shoot younger deer and don't go in for the whole rack has to be so big crap)
To each his own, but personally, I don't want to kill a jake anymore. Been several years since I have. I would say maybe 28 or so years ? I did just have this conversation with the boy, he's 13, and I asked do you want to shoot a Jake this youth season? He responded I don't know? I said, well if you want to that okay with me. He's not killed a turkey yet, but his sister has. It's entirely up to him.
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If I have a kid or a new hunter out and their pulse is racing, heart thumping and the Jake gives them a "gobbler" experience ie. Gobbling and/or strutting I encourage them to take the bird.
Myself I'm not spending a tag on a Jake, I've let toms walk if they don't provide the excitement and walk in not gobbling with no color to their head.
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I would not personally shoot one. I would rather shoot him later as a gobbler. If I were taking a first time younger hunter, Mr. Jake can smile for the special 20 gauge camera.
I wouldn't unless I was youth but I'm not.. even then I would try to not shoot a Jake unless I couldn't call a longbeard in as a youth
I wont shoot jakes any more. Haven't for years now. I've eaten many a tag over the years because of that practice.
With the limited amount of time I have to hunt each year it's hard to pass up legal birds. If it's getting down to the wire and I haven't killed a bird I'll take a jake if I have the opportunity.
I do not intend to shoot Jakes but as others have said, I've been fooled twice. One time was last spring. It was late morning and I fired one up deep in a wood block and he just came running. Never strutted but I saw this beard swinging and was certain it was longbeard. I didn't know until I went to check out his spurs. Beard was 7.5"
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240329/d5845bcfe0be53d00f68de0048dda680.jpg)
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Looks just like the super jake my nephew killed. His was 6.5" but it was real thick how he came in and we both saw beard.
Generally speaking, I have no problem with anybody shooting a jake...even though I personally will not. I will eat a tag every time, even if it is the last minute of the last day of the season. Shooting a turkey to say I filled a tag just isn't that important to me anymore.
Having said that, what should be of importance to all of us is understanding the impact of shooting jakes is in the specific location we are doing it. The recurring theme across the turkey hunting spectrum is the idea that some places are experiencing sharp declines in their turkey populations. Those declines are almost exclusively due to reproductive failure...which results in little or no population recruitment over time.
In those specific circumstances, the survival of a jake (the rare male turkey that survived to adulthood) may be of more consequence than in others. More importantly, having numerous hunters shooting jakes in those situations can potentially have a real impact in a declining turkey population's ability to recover if and when favorable conditions for successful reproduction/recruitment occur.
Now, admittedly, the circumstances that fit the above scenario may be rare, but my personal perspective is one of asking the question,..."Is the jake I am about to shoot one that will live to breed some hens next spring resulting in a successful bunch of poults living to adulthood and impacting future turkey numbers here?" Perhaps the answer is "no", but for me, I am going to be an optimist and say "let's take a chance on it and let this jake live".
...If I really need to eat turkey that badly, I will go down to the local supermarket and buy one. ...It is a lot cheaper to do that anyway... ;D
Recently on the wild turkey science podcast they talked about this thing called the turkey brotherhood. In this brotherhood siblings work together to establish territories and display to females with the dominant sibling getting breeding rights. If remember correctly, I heard that hens prefer this. Interesting episode.
This episode has me thinking these harassing bands of Jake's are setting themselves up to take over the hierarchy.
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 31, 2024, 10:21:32 AM
Generally speaking, I have no problem with anybody shooting a jake...even though I personally will not. I will eat a tag every time, even if it is the last minute of the last day of the season. Shooting a turkey to say I filled a tag just isn't that important to me anymore.
When I started turkey hunting many years ago I shot jakes. Nowadays I feel the same way, although in the last several years I'll admit I've shot a jake in mistake.
Had one last year last day of season that played the game too beautifully to pass. Gobbled, strutted, did everything you could ask for in a bird to hunt. He went home with me.
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I hear you! Back around 1980 or so on the last day of our NY season Memorial weekend I was taking the family down to PA to visit my parents. I made sure we left early so I could try one last time where I knew there was bird. Well...as luck would have it I called him in. A gobbling, strutting and pirouetting big jake. Without a doubt the "boss". He made the trip to my parent's place with me. Honestly, although that long ago, I think that's the last bird I've seen pirouette.
To those of you that have never seen a bird pirouette...you may never. The difference between more naive birds in the past and pressured birds now.
Jake survival may be the most impacted part of reduced bag limits. I know since Ohio went to 1 gobbler bag limit very few jakes are being shot. Before hunters would take an early season jake and then hunt longbeards. Now they hold out for the long beard. I know this is happening because i hear a lot of guys talking about it and I have seen it in the local hunters. As for me, I may still shoot a Jake, but I'm just going to say it was a mistake. JUst having fun guys, I'm not picking on anyone.
I rarely disagree with Gobblenut, but store bought turkey is no ways near as good as wild and I had way more fun acquiring the wild one, even a Jake.
As I've said I generally pass Jakes, but I am not going to say I will never shoot one. Last year I passed up 19 different jakes, some multiple times. With that many on the farms I hunted I doubt very seriously shooting one would have changed the breeding dynamics. I would guess there has not been a jake harvested off those farms in years. Maybe that's why there is a strong population on them, but these farms have the best turkey habitat you will find anywhere in this state. My belief is Jakes are fair game in a healthy flock, but in a depressed and stressed flock, protect them. Like it's been said many times, Habitat, Habitat and after that more Habitat. Outside of habitat only disease will reduce birds. Even predators aren't effective in good habitat. Many nest are preyed upon because hens are forced into poor nesting sites.
Quote from: Vintage on March 27, 2024, 10:14:14 AM
To each his own. Shoot what you want as long as it's legal.
^^^
THIS
TO MANY PEOPLE WORRY ABOUT WHAT EVERYONE THINKS!
BE YOURSELF!!
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Sure. Definitely in the Fall. Spring also sometimes.
I shot jakes when I was first starting to turkey hunt and I shot one a couple years ago when I had my daughter sitting in a blind with me. Usually I don't shoot them even if it is the last day and I still have a tag. Just the way I do it but I don't have a problem if someone else wants to shoot them.
I am not a serious turkey hunter, I go 3 days a year and I want to get one. No $12 shells or special chairs, I sit on a bucket. Properties I have to hunt are super limited and I'm not skilled or driven enough to hunt public. I'm probably the average turkey hunter.
I put a lot more effort into deer hunting, I would never shoot a small buck, so I can understand the elitist. The only difference is that all turkeys look exactly the same, and no two whitetail racks (of any size) are the same.
Quote from: Tommy Strutsalot on March 28, 2024, 08:27:46 PM
I do not intend to shoot Jakes but as others have said, I've been fooled twice. One time was last spring. It was late morning and I fired one up deep in a wood block and he just came running. Never strutted but I saw this beard swinging and was certain it was longbeard. I didn't know until I went to check out his spurs. Beard was 7.5"
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240329/d5845bcfe0be53d00f68de0048dda680.jpg)
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That sure looks like a Tom to me......
Quote from: ScottTaulbee on March 27, 2024, 06:17:09 PM
Quote from: Kyle_Ott on March 27, 2024, 05:09:22 PM
Quote from: ScottTaulbee on March 27, 2024, 09:45:14 AM
Most Jakes don't survive until the second year, and not only that but Jakes do no breeding. If they do, they aren't fertile. So realistically, killing a Jake has zero impact on the population, where as killing a breeding gobbler during breeding season does. I'm not above shooting a Jake, and if he comes in gobbling, he's taking a ride in my truck. I don't discriminate. I get very few days to hunt anymore and it's what I dream about every day, at least once a hour, all year long.
Here is a scenario that is very likely to happen in my life
After working 36 days straight, I get a day off, I have no clue when I might get my next one, I found a piece of public that surprisingly doesn't have 10 trucks at it, I am in god's creation, watching the spring woods wake up, feeling the cold morning air, hearing whipoor wills, and the little birds, a turkey gobbles, on the mountain, I climb 1,300 feet straight up, I respond, he gobbles again, closer, I respond, he goes silent. My heart is in my throat, my palms are sweating, I have no clue how everything can't hear my heart beating, 5 minutes later a red head pops up and he has a 4 or 5" beard, long legs, a Jake. I've played the game, I've won, and I'm pulling the trigger. It makes no difference to me if he has button spurs and a 4" beard or 1 1/2" spurs and a 11" beard. Once I get home, the kids ohh and aww over it a little, we take a picture and then the spurs and beard go in a box with the rest of them. The real trophy was the experience and that fine eating you can't get elsewhere.
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This is actually fals. The Mississippi study conducted on jake mortality was only 6%. Effectively 94% of jakes made it to their second year of life.
To add to that, most recently Chamberlain recently released a study where 85% of gobblers in UNHUNTED populations survived annually.
Point being, male turkey mortality is most significantly influence by HUNTING.
How you view success and what you're looking for out of a hunt is certainly your personal prerogative but justifying killing a jake due to low survivability just isn't a thing.
As far as male turkey mortality, it's absolutely no secret that the most are killed by hunting. They have very few predators that will get them other than a hunter. My point is, why is shooting a Jake frowned upon?. You can't manage turkey like deer. You're pissing in the wind to try. You can't stock pile them and you can't expect the turkey you see today to be there next season. As far as a Jake vs a 2 year old gobbler. What is the difference other than 3" of beard and 1/4" of spur?. A two year old is no more wary than a Jake but hunters love em and some how it's more socially acceptable to shoot them?. I'd rather see someone shoot a Jake than reap a gobbler, shoot him at extended range, or decoy one in. But, if it's legal, knock yourself out. I hunt for me, not to be accepted in the "in crowd".
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I just don't see how you can say killing a Jake has NO effect on the population. Yeah, maybe not immediately but the way I look at it is their life can go two directions. 1) They make it to their 2nd year of life and begin breeding or 2) they do not make it to their 2nd year of life and do not begin breeding. When you shoot a Jake, you are guaranteeing that route number 1 never even gets a chance to occur.
I have a hard time believing the protection of jakes is the salvation of our turkey flocks. In any given flock only a few gobblers do most of the breeding. There's usually a surplus of gobblers. Jakes often out number adult gobblers, but the adults are doing most of the breeding, couldn't you argue your impacting the breeding by removing adults. Just food for thought. If you killed half the jakes in a flock wouldn't there still be enough for future breeding stock? Why limit people's opportunities over something we don't have data to support?
eggshell - I don't think anyone is necessarily claiming that saving jakes will save the turkey population, but I do think people are saying that killing more turkeys hurts the turkey population. People kill hens in the fall, they aren't breeding then so why does it matter? Because they now have NO chance to breed regardless of if they would have or not during the next breeding cycle. Its a pure probability game. I like a jake having a 6% chance to breed the next year versus a 0% chance when he is killed.
I agree NOmad, i was only offering food for thought. A discussion primer....
Quote from: Tom007 on April 02, 2024, 08:41:19 AM
Quote from: Tommy Strutsalot on March 28, 2024, 08:27:46 PM
I do not intend to shoot Jakes but as others have said, I've been fooled twice. One time was last spring. It was late morning and I fired one up deep in a wood block and he just came running. Never strutted but I saw this beard swinging and was certain it was longbeard. I didn't know until I went to check out his spurs. Beard was 7.5"
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240329/d5845bcfe0be53d00f68de0048dda680.jpg)
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That sure looks like a Tom to me......
lol, thanks for the affirmation, frankly that's why I wasn't too ashamed to share it and admit I had made a mistake. It had nubs for spurs and the fan was almost full but not quite - had he strutted I would've known. I've heard the term super jake before but don't really know what it would mean biologically but I assume it was probably a very late hatch bird and was about to turn 2 in the summer. The beard, waddles and snood had me fooled. He also had a commanding gobble - and while that's not a reliable indicator of maturity - it played into my whole perception of the events.
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Good question on the super jake age, but I always assumed the opposite, that it was like the earliest hatch of that year and had more growing time. Never thought of it is a 1.5 year old bird, but like a 11 month bird instead of a 9 month bird. Anyone know?
An actual biologist on here one time said how much beard might grow based on time, but I don't recall.
Quote from: g8rvet on April 04, 2024, 11:54:18 AM
Good question on the super jake age, but I always assumed the opposite, that it was like the earliest hatch of that year and had more growing time. Never thought of it is a 1.5 year old bird, but like a 11 month bird instead of a 9 month bird. Anyone know?
An actual biologist on here one time said how much beard might grow based on time, but I don't recall.
I agree with you as it being an early hatch. I recon it could be the other way just an easy tho. As far as how much a beard will grow in a given time might be hard to determine. For example in the fall and winter of 2021 I had a group of 8 Jakes on my farm, beards ranged from probably 5" beards to not even showing, by spring 2022 they all had 3" to 6" beards and a few of them sounded just like a Tom gobbling. Fast forward to spring 23' they all had 9" to 10" beards. I'm assuming they were all brothers because they were together all the time. If so their growth spurts hit at different times but they all ended up about equal by almost 2yrs. I don't know this to be facts by any means but I have always felt genetics ,along with Mother Nature has a lot to do with beards and spurs.
I killed several jakes when I first started out hunting spring gobblers. After a couple years I decided to pass them up. I have not killed one in years and have no intentions of doing so. My answer is no, never.
Never.
Quote from: g8rvet on April 04, 2024, 11:54:18 AM
Good question on the super jake age, but I always assumed the opposite, that it was like the earliest hatch of that year and had more growing time. Never thought of it is a 1.5 year old bird, but like a 11 month bird instead of a 9 month bird. Anyone know?
I don't KNOW. But, I can speculate as well as anyone. :toothy9:
I get a kick out of the term "super jake". :TooFunny:
But, If I were a guessing man............ I would think a bird with a full tail fan, 6 or 7 inch beard and nubby or maybe 3/8 inch spurs would be a 15 or 16 month old bird that was a very late hatch 2 seasons prior.
I posted here a couple years back about finding peeps that were a few days old on Labor Day weekend. My theory is that THIS is where these birds are originating.
A buddy of mine calls them "jake and a half".
My first bird was an Osceola jake on my first youth hunt in my teens. It was super exciting at the time and I was just happy to get my first turkey.
I've never harvested another jake and wouldn't consider it at this point.
Here's my opinion on the super jake. I have killed a lot of fall gobblers that were jakes the previous spring. That makes them around 16-18 months old in my area. They look just like your bird, they average 7-8" beard and slightly more than nub spurs and usually weigh 16 to 17 pounds. My bet is he was a very late hatch from a second nest during mid to late summer. That would put him in the 18-20 month age group and about that stage. I have seen some small poults in the fall. I would shoot him as a two year old and never look back.