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Can someone explain some of the differences to me as far as TFT vs NWTF?

Obviously I know that NWTF has been around for a long time and from my research, they've had a lot of organizational changes over the years. Some people love it, some people have seemed to walk away from it. But the reason I ask is because I'm seeing TFT everywhere

NWTF has gotten a bad rep from some in recent years, poorly managed money being the main gripe!

TFT is the new "better" version, maybe so but they are marketing aggressively.

The more the merrier, in my opinion they both need to focus on habitat!


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I'm going to put it this way, talk to NWTF and all you hear about is money. Talk to TFT and you hear about research and management.  Look at their websites and one has nothing but ways to donate... Money and the other has links to research projects and discounts on dog proof traps.  Look at TFT two paid employees and a host of volunteers. Even their CEO and Chairman/Founder are volunteers... NWTF, pays millions in salaries and have a paid team of professional beggers (RD).  NWTF will be quick to tell you what you can't do TFT will be quick to show you what you can do.  I can keep going...

I belong to both organizations.  I feel like my money is better spent by TFT.  They seem to be really focused on the science and making things better.  I think a greater portion goes to the research than with NWTF.  As mentioned above, most of the leaders are volunteers that want improve turkey populations.  One man's opinion, that and $5 gets you a coffee at Starbucks.

Regardless it's all about needing money to operate to fund habitat improvement and research..  TFT / NWTF ...  It's up to you how you spend your money with these organizations.

NWTF is a sham.
TFT is for thr birds

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Nwtf used to do a lot down here in the dirty south .
Funded youth days and youth hunts on local Wmas ,
Paid for gates on public for brooding areas etc , but I haven't seen them do anything but take our money in the recent years .
TFT is funding several research efforts as we speak .
I still support both , but if Nwtf doesn't tighten up , I'll stick with Tft only .

. Money ruins everything, well the love of money ruins everything.  NWTF is not exempt from this, and mark my words, neither is TFT. I certainly hope that I will be wrong, but I have seen it before. Same with DU and Delta Waterfowl.

Have a good one, Bo

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Quote from: Gooserbat on February 13, 2023, 05:09:30 PM
I'm going to put it this way, talk to NWTF and all you hear about is money. Talk to TFT and you hear about research and management.  Look at their websites and one has nothing but ways to donate... Money and the other has links to research projects and discounts on dog proof traps.  Look at TFT two paid employees and a host of volunteers. Even their CEO and Chairman/Founder are volunteers... NWTF, pays millions in salaries and have a paid team of professional beggers (RD).  NWTF will be quick to tell you what you can't do TFT will be quick to show you what you can do.  I can keep going...

I have to agree with Gooserbat on this.  I've not seen any new or continuing projects in my neck of the woods in quite some time....

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We have gotten more research results from TFT since it's inception than the NWTF has put out in 10 years......I'm for the bunch that figures out how to turn our turkey population around as quick as possible and it's pulling way to one side under that requirement!!

I think you are missing something here, the NWTF has more lobbing / political Power with individual States.  TFT doesn't have the money or the Power of the NWTF .. So until it can provide better ways of fund raising it cannot compete on the same level. It will always remain a small organization that will always bring recognition and needs for improving our turkey decline. But on a much smaller platform.... Nothing wrong with TFT whatsoever... I see good things ahead with the TFT organization in bringing more awareness to our turkey problems. IMO

call it what you want.....in the end nothing moves without money, nothing. the nwtf has given plenty of money to plenty of things, plenty of times. mismanaged ? sure it is, but what aint??? There is no organization that goes without its corruptions , its inevitable. I like TFT as well and im a member of both, because its all we got.  i see no reason to create a one vs the other scenario...ultimately there are great people in both organizations.

There's an old saying I've heard; all cute puppies grow up to be dogs, some hunt and some only eat and poop. Time answers the question.

I was turkey hunting when NWTF was founded. I also worked for our Division of Wildlife, and I was good friends with some high level NWTF people. In the early years NWTF poured millions into making turkey hunting both better and worse. Here in Ohio they contributed to the purchase of a lot of public land and they bought lots of equipment. My crew assisted with turkey trapping and transplanting (although I was in fisheries). I fully supported the NWTF. I don't know what changed or just when, but the time came all I seen was money grubbing and little coming back to  the resource. What was being spent was spent on education and creating more hunters (donors). I blame them for the boom of hunters in the late 80s and 90s. They made turkey hunting cool, and I'll leave whether that was good or bad up to individual opinion. During this time I personally knew of high paid fund raisers that where "puttin on the show" and living big. This is why I dropped the NWTF.
TFT, is way too young to determine what they will be. They are cute puppies right now, we'll see if they hunt later. Yet, a puppie needs to eat to get to that stage, so I say feed it until we see if it hunts.

Quote from: eggshell on February 14, 2023, 06:48:12 AM
There's an old saying I've heard; all cute puppies grow up to be dogs, some hunt and some only eat and poop. Time answers the question.

I was turkey hunting when NWTF was founded. I also worked for our Division of Wildlife, and I was good friends with some high level NWTF people. In the early years NWTF poured millions into making turkey hunting both better and worse. Here in Ohio they contributed to the purchase of a lot of public land and they bought lots of equipment. My crew assisted with turkey trapping and transplanting (although I was in fisheries). I fully supported the NWTF. I don't know what changed or just when, but the time came all I seen was money grubbing and little coming back to  the resource. What was being spent was spent on education and creating more hunters (donors). I blame them for the boom of hunters in the late 80s and 90s. They made turkey hunting cool, and I'll leave whether that was good or bad up to individual opinion. During this time I personally knew of high paid fund raisers that where "puttin on the show" and living big. This is why I dropped the NWTF.
TFT, is way too young to determine what they will be. They are cute puppies right now, we'll see if they hunt later. Yet, a puppie needs to eat to get to that stage, so I say feed it until we see if it hunts.

.  This ^^^ !!!! 100 %

NWTF has changed so much through the years and I don't think for the best!!!!

I'll share my limited experience.

I have called my state NWTF biologist twice and the national office once to get help on habitat.  I never got a call back.

I called TFT and immediately had my habitat questions answered and they were very helpful.

I always go to a local NWTF banquet and it seems it has turned into a drunk fest and I really thought the last few years they would push habitat and predator management while so many people are in the room.  It's kind of disappointing to me.

One can hope that NWTF will take this new found 'competition' and rise to the challenge for the good of the turkeys and sportsmen. 

I also hope they don't resort to the classic 'tearing one down to build another up.' 

There is room for both at the table.

I agree with Gooserbat as well.  If you are going to contribute to an organization, the first thing you need to do is LOOK at the percentage they payout in Admin fees (salaries etc).  Most organizations will have as high as 30 plus percent (30 cents on the dollar) paid out to senior executives and top level management (The Good Ole Boys).  IMO, look at an organization that has less than 10 percent, that is looking to improve something and not pad a few people's pockets.  1 Timothy 6:10  For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.

Quote from: CALLM2U on February 14, 2023, 12:19:50 PM
One can hope that NWTF will take this new found 'competition' and rise to the challenge for the good of the turkeys and sportsmen. 

I also hope they don't resort to the classic 'tearing one down to build another up.' 

There is room for both at the table.

I agree,,, but I can tell you that it's a100% fact that some of the hi ups at Nwtf are not happy with the Tft surge .

QuoteIMO, look at an organization that has less than 10 percent, that is looking to improve something and not pad a few people's pockets.

I agree, somewhat. As administrative Chairman and fund manager for a non profit group, my salary is $0.00 and none of the officers are paid. We pay an administrative fee of around 4% for a clerical person's cost and accountant fees. Although, I think less than 10% is a pretty slim margin in today's economy. I do not begrudge officers getting fair salaries, they earn them. When your managing a national program and 40 Million dollars, you deserve to be paid accordingly. Someone like me can do it for free as all I manage is bread crumbs in comparison, but we all need to be accountable to our base.

The reported administrative cost for NWTF is 12.7%. You can find a report card on them here....https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/570564993

It is not their financial management I take as much issue with as their program spending. It seems they have went away from research and habitat, but that's just my perspective. They actually get high grades from all the watchdogs.

Both good organizations. Any organization that does anything for the turkey is money well spent.
For the small amount it costs to be a member of these organizations I say support both.

Quote from: eggshell on February 14, 2023, 06:48:12 AM
There's an old saying I've heard; all cute puppies grow up to be dogs, some hunt and some only eat and poop. Time answers the question.

I was turkey hunting when NWTF was founded. I also worked for our Division of Wildlife, and I was good friends with some high level NWTF people. In the early years NWTF poured millions into making turkey hunting both better and worse. Here in Ohio they contributed to the purchase of a lot of public land and they bought lots of equipment. My crew assisted with turkey trapping and transplanting (although I was in fisheries). I fully supported the NWTF. I don't know what changed or just when, but the time came all I seen was money grubbing and little coming back to  the resource. What was being spent was spent on education and creating more hunters (donors). I blame them for the boom of hunters in the late 80s and 90s. They made turkey hunting cool, and I'll leave whether that was good or bad up to individual opinion. During this time I personally knew of high paid fund raisers that where "puttin on the show" and living big. This is why I dropped the NWTF.
TFT, is way too young to determine what they will be. They are cute puppies right now, we'll see if they hunt later. Yet, a puppie needs to eat to get to that stage, so I say feed it until we see if it hunts.

The TFT based on who they have chosen to associate with is already in the same category of "creating more hunters".....and im not bashing them for that because in all fairness pandoras box has been opened for along time reguarding that. However that is something i would like to see conservation organizations shy away from....call it selfish, thats fine. We will all be wishing we had been selfish in about 40 years i imagine.

Quote from: turkeyfool on February 13, 2023, 11:44:03 AM
Can someone explain some of the differences to me as far as TFT vs NWTF?

Obviously I know that NWTF has been around for a long time and from my research, they've had a lot of organizational changes over the years. Some people love it, some people have seemed to walk away from it. But the reason I ask is because I'm seeing TFT everywhere

Thank you for the kind words, if you're seeing us everywhere we are doing our job!  We have read each of the responses and want to preface this response by saying we are beginning our third year as an organization on February 22, 2023 so we understand we are young, but we hope to make it clear we are here to stay.  We have some of the best supporters and volunteer board members of any organization. At TFT, we strive to educate the hunting public and private landowners on how to make more turkeys, the supporters like yourself allow us to conduct and fund this research so we always plan to keep updates flowing. This is evident by our outreach events for landowners and the wild turkey science podcast which we just launched earlier this spring. We want to fund research that is shared with the public and communicated among our membership.  Good communication and good science are two of our largest organizational goals. We hope each of you will realize the sheer amount of good we have been able to accomplish with very little dollars. It has been tough getting support as many would rather stand on the sidelines to see if we do right by the wild turkey and turkey hunting public. We are committed to prove a worthy organization and hope that many of you will dive in and engage.  The turkey needs strong support today. 

Lastly, I'd like to make it clear, Turkeys For Tomorrow is a collection of motivated turkey hunters determined to not sit idle while concerns about our beloved resource build. TFT is not only an organization that is dedicated to saving the wild turkey, it is one that promotes conservation, ethical hunting, and the mentoring of future hunters of tomorrow. Through collaborative work with various state wildlife agencies, private landowners, and other non-profit organizations, TFT hopes to provide sound and effective solutions to current problems the wild turkey faces. TFT will always put the wild turkey at the forefront of the organization.

The NWTF and TFT are separate organizations with similar goals; making more turkeys and improving habitats for turkeys to thrive. But as with any 2 entities, we may go about the process a bit differently- it's actually inevitable. We have different people making decisions. Think about the old adage "there's more than one way to skin a cat".  While both organizations have already shown to work cohesively in funding common ground projects, there may be areas where each organization may feel the need to focus more attention separately.  In other words, while one may be paddling the boat the other may be erecting a sail- the end result is the vessel moving forward at a quicker pace ensuring we all enjoy the wild turkey for many tomorrows to come!  We encourage all of you to contact us directly and join TFT.  We want to increase our footprint with local chapters led by individuals wanting to make a difference today. That being said the first 10 TFT chapters launched this winter and we can't wait to have each and every one of you at those events.

As mentioned in an earlier comment we have all waited for dawn at broken down gates, ripped clothing and crawled on our knees as we cut and run trying to strike a bird in sub par habitats and stood in overgrown wildlife openings. Why?  TFT is here to demand better and bring all parties to the table to accomplish that goal. America's greatest game bird needs all the support we can muster, thank you all for the kind words...and we promise this dog will hunt!

With that response from TFT I rest my case - they are listening and watching- waiting to help anyone who ask - even as simple as responding to a forum ( which tells you they want to know what turkey hunters think ) - keep up the good work TFT you have my full support!!

We watch this forum very closely and usually check in weekly. We are very appreciative of the OG - Shannon for letting us participate and donating ad space for our org. Thank you for the support Wigsplitter!

I would love to go to a turkey hunting banquet that actually talks about turkey hunting or anything turkey related.  Not a boozed filled auction with skimpy dressed women. Let's get something going in North Alabama.

Quote from: aclawrence on February 14, 2023, 10:18:41 PM
I would love to go to a turkey hunting banquet that actually talks about turkey hunting or anything turkey related.  Not a boozed filled auction with skimpy dressed women. Let's get something going in North Alabama.

took the words out my mouth, i think its what many want. i would certainly love to see that.

Quote from: aclawrence on February 14, 2023, 10:18:41 PM
I would love to go to a turkey hunting banquet that actually talks about turkey hunting or anything turkey related.  Not a boozed filled auction with skimpy dressed women. Let's get something going in North Alabama.

Currently there are 10 TFT Chapters across the country. The event schedule for spring 2023 is:

1. ENTERPRISE, AL | 24-Feb-23

2. SAPULPA, OK | 11-Mar-23

3. AUBURN, AL | 16-Mar-23

4. PRATTVILLE, AL | 23-Mar-23

5. LAGRANGE, GA | 31-Mar-23

6. IOWA CITY, IA | 8-Apr-23

7. EAST FELICIANA, LA | TBD

8. VOLUSIA, FL | TBD

9. REEDS SPRING, MO | 23-June-23 & 24-June-23 (TFT Landowner Education Weekend at  GrowingDeer TV)

Events in North Carolina and Ohio are in the planning stage and will likely happen in June directly following turkey season.

Quote from: eggshell on February 14, 2023, 03:58:23 PM
As administrative Chairman and fund manager for a non profit group, my salary is $0.00 and none of the officers are paid. We pay an administrative fee of around 4% for a clerical person's cost and accountant fees. Although, I think less than 10% is a pretty slim margin in today's economy. I do not begrudge officers getting fair salaries, they earn them. When your managing a national program and 40 Million dollars, you deserve to be paid accordingly. Someone like me can do it for free as all I manage is bread crumbs in comparison, but we all need to be accountable to our base.

It is not their financial management I take as much issue with as their program spending. It seems they have went away from research and habitat, but that's just my perspective. They actually get high grades from all the watchdogs.

Personally, I look at non-profit organizations from a different angle and especially when those organizations are formed by supposedly concerned "partakers" in the resource that those organizations are formed around.  Talking specifically about NWTF (although my outlook applies to many such organizations), the fact is that NWTF is supported by volunteers who give up their money and their time to support a group that is supposed to be working to help the resource. 

While I agree that the leadership of such organizations should be paid enough to support their families comfortably, I disagree that those folks should be paid exorbitantly,...which is exactly what happened within the NWTF.  Paying several hundred thousand dollars a year to people who are supported by a base of folks that most likely make one tenth of that is, again in my opinion, outrageous.

That base of volunteers is sacrificing money and time that they are getting nothing in return for financially.  The leadership of these non-profits should be willing to do their part by recognizing that,...and in turn, paying themselves accordingly with comfortable, but reasonable, salaries. 

Over three decades, I personally donated tens of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours of my volunteer time in supporting the MISSION of the NWTF.  That mission did not include making folks rich off of my contributions!  If I am going to sacrifice my money and time for a cause, I expect the same from everybody involved,...and to me that means the leadership has to put every spare cent into the mission, not into their pockets!  If that means those that end up leading the organization are not quite as qualified or "good" at it as the big shots that want to be paid like they are running a for-profit company, then so be it! 

Rant over.... 

I remember when you were on the other side of the fence.  We would occasionally talk while leaning on the fence.   Then one day I noticed you had climbed up on the fence to sit down during the  occasional N"WTF" conversation.   Now when I see these conversations it seems you have fallen off the fence and we are leaning on the same side most of the time, that's scary ;D.   

Here is something to lull over. NWTF regional directors make more money than most biologists who work for state wildlife agencies, including some of the turkey coordinators for those states.

I believe TFT is doing the right thing and will improve the turkey population. I also think there membership fees are to high.

Maybe in the future they could have an annual membership drive with a small discount in adding new members ... TFT....  or look at doing this at the banquets as a way to draw more attention to the new organization. IMO

Good idea, maybe they will take this into consideration.

Quote from: guesswho on February 15, 2023, 10:17:44 AM
Good idea, maybe they will take this into consideration.

People like discounts especially my wife, she will walk 1/2 mile across a store for the discount rack to save a dollar...  :TooFunny:

Quote from: guesswho on February 15, 2023, 09:17:11 AM
I remember when you were on the other side of the fence.  We would occasionally talk while leaning on the fence.   Then one day I noticed you had climbed up on the fence to sit down during the  occasional N"WTF" conversation.   Now when I see these conversations it seems you have fallen off the fence and we are leaning on the same side most of the time, that's scary ;D.

:TooFunny: :angel9:  Yes it is scary!   What is the world coming to?! 
Your take is pretty much right on target.  I was, at one time (been about fifteen years ago now), a staunch supporter of the NWTF.  It would take waaayyy too many paragraphs to cover what I witnessed that moved me from defending the NWTF to moving to the other side of that fence.

Regardless of my changing personal perspective, I do believe that NWTF has its place and that folks that want to support the organization can find justification for that.  For me, the mission just changed too much over the years from what I got involved with it for way back in the 70's. 

As for TFT, if they stick with something near that original NWTF mission, I will be a staunch supporter of that organization....   :icon_thumright:

Quote from: GobbleNut on February 15, 2023, 10:41:09 AM

Quote from: guesswho on February 15, 2023, 09:17:11 AM
I remember when you were on the other side of the fence.  We would occasionally talk while leaning on the fence.   Then one day I noticed you had climbed up on the fence to sit down during the  occasional N"WTF" conversation.   Now when I see these conversations it seems you have fallen off the fence and we are leaning on the same side most of the time, that's scary ;D.

:TooFunny: :angel9:  Yes it is scary!   What is the world coming to?! 
Your take is pretty much right on target.  I was, at one time (been about fifteen years ago now), a staunch supporter of the NWTF.  It would take waaayyy too many paragraphs to cover what I witnessed that moved me from defending the NWTF to moving to the other side of that fence.

Regardless of my changing personal perspective, I do believe that NWTF has its place and that folks that want to support the organization can find justification for that.  For me, the mission just changed too much over the years from what I got involved with it for way back in the 70's. 

As for TFT, if they stick with something near that original NWTF mission, I will be a staunch supporter of that organization....   :icon_thumright:

What upset me the most with NWTF was all the money that was spent on that shooting range, wanting it to look like a golf course ...

Biggest difference is NWTF mostly BUREAUCRATS. TFT mostly TURKEY HUNTERS. 

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Quote from: Cowboy on February 15, 2023, 11:00:28 AM
Biggest difference is NWTF mostly BUREAUCRATS. TFT mostly TURKEY HUNTERS. 

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I agree with you and the NWTF started out the same way all turkey hunters especially our local chapters. Our chapter is the oldest chapter in Tennessee ...

Quote from: Greg Massey on February 15, 2023, 11:07:27 AM

Quote from: Cowboy on February 15, 2023, 11:00:28 AM
Biggest difference is NWTF mostly BUREAUCRATS. TFT mostly TURKEY HUNTERS. 

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I agree with you and the NWTF started out the same way all turkey hunters especially our local chapters. Our chapter is the oldest chapter in Tennessee ...

True. Agree 100%.

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NWTF is just like Ducks Unlimited. A non profit organization that pays high salaries to the head honchos , , provides extravagant banquets for the elite , provides generous paychecks for the select good ole boys and the select few of the organization get to travel around hunting across the country at the best places on your dime. Like Forest Gump said " That's all I'm gonna say about that".

Okay ...time for me to chime in

Turkey Biology , Restoration , Conservation and land management is probably the most important issue to Turkey hunters , some would say crisis facing us today and in the future...if we don't FOCUS on that .... that future will progressively be dimmer and dimmer. Many of us who are old hats to this ,have noticed the changes

TFT is not a rival organization to the NWTF ,  I would urge you to continue to support the NWTF ...and I would recommend you support TFT also ! I've assisted NWTF and several organizations here and elsewhere and I'll continue to support them in the future, and I (Oldgobbler.com)plan on assisting TFT in the future because it's the right thing to do , and it will help Wild Turkeys

Shannon

I'm not opposed to the NWTF but after being a committee member of a chapter myself and some friends started I saw all I needed to see from those clowns!

In the three years I was involved they had a new NWTF rep each year, each one was more like a bad used car salesman than the last!


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Quote from: deerhunt1988 on February 15, 2023, 09:34:45 AM
Here is something to lull over. NWTF regional directors make more money than most biologists who work for state wildlife agencies, including some of the turkey coordinators for those states.

I have to comment, when I read your post I actually chuckled. I have real life experience in this. Way back in the late 80s and 90s before i retired from my career as a Fish Hatchery Superintendent, raising an average of 5 million fish a year for Ohio anglers. My crew would often work with the turkey trapping crews in our off season. The average salary for all those people was less than $40,000.00 and mine was a bit higher. I was also active in the NWTF then and one of my good friends, who I often hunted with, managed to get a regional director's job. He would call me to take people pheasant hunting (I had a powerhouse dog and access to good habitat) that the NWTF wanted to impress. We also hunted together just the two of us and in conversations I learned he made a larger salary than I did and he also traveled and hunted all over the country on NWTF expense account, while I saved like a miser to fund my hunts. He openly admitted it wasn't fair and it hurt the relationships with state personel. However, he was a high energy salesman at banquets and raised a lot of money.

To Gobblenut's point, I believe he would have done the job for much less. He is a good guy and loved turkey hunting. He had other income and done the directors job out of love for the sport. There are many good and capable people that would jump on the NWTF administrative jobs for much less and do a great job. Take top level Wildlife agency heads (like Ohio's Chief of the Division of Wildlife) who manage and direct all the wildlife resources of an entire state and typically make about 30% of the salary of the NWTF director (approx. $350,000.00) Those people would do just fine running the NWTF, they are intelligent and good hardworking people. Yet modern business is profiled to compensate top level maoney makers as a base of their group's budget and earnings. I understand that, but I do agree that Non-profits are different. I should have explained that I believe they earn their pay, but that doesn't mean we pay them exorbantly.

My question is, how many more studies can we possibly do?  Putting all that donated money and time towards habitat would benefit the wild turkey way more than anything.  TFT isn't even listening to its own biologist when it comes to predator removal.  Every research i've seen when it comes to trapping basically says its useless if you don't have the habitat.  But they are pushing these coon trapping events like its somehow going to save poults 4 months from now.  If those 500 people who participated would have done prescribed fires instead of trapping a few coons now that would have made a difference.  How much more research do we need?  Poults are not surviving. 

Quote from: Bolandstrutters on February 16, 2023, 08:10:32 AM
My question is, how many more studies can we possibly do?  Putting all that donated money and time towards habitat would benefit the wild turkey way more than anything.  TFT isn't even listening to its own biologist when it comes to predator removal.  Every research i've seen when it comes to trapping basically says its useless if you don't have the habitat.  But they are pushing these coon trapping events like its somehow going to save poults 4 months from now.  If those 500 people who participated would have done prescribed fires instead of trapping a few coons now that would have made a difference.  How much more research do we need?  Poults are not surviving.

My thoughts exactly. I trapped from the age of 12 until I was in my early 20's and regularly took 150+ coons, plus typically a dozen coyotes, a few mink and muskrats, generally caught 20 or 30 possums in coon sets and the occasional skunk. In order to trap effectively you have to know the animals pretty much inside and out and know how they think in order to get them to step on to a 2" square and get caught, dog proof traps had just started coming out towards the end of my time trapping. Part of the success trapping the "nest predators" was knowing how they move through the year, and as far as "nest predators" are concerned, they don't go actively hunting nests of eggs on the ground. They move through their range normally and are opportunistic eaters.
So putting 2 and 2 together, it would seem that the reason they are finding and eating nests are because the hens are laying nests in the predators home ranges they cover. That tells me that the hens are laying in unsuitable habitat to begin with. The "war" in my eyes isn't on nest predators, they're doing what they do. The problem lies in, why are the hens having to lay nests in poor habitat to begin with?. In my eyes, it's farmers that want pretty fields and state fish and wildlife departments throwing the money elsewhere instead of taking care of the public lands like they're supposed to.


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I'll admit, I have been very skeptical of TFT and have not yet donated my time or support to them. I've mainly been skeptical of the organization due to who their poster child is...

But with that, I am impressed with their communication with members/public about research projects and where the money is going to.

I have spent years' worth of time volunteering for a local chapter and money with the NWTF, I've always heard of folk's skepticism of the NWTF. I regretfully admit I'm done supporting the org. Tired of the RD who is crooked and corrupt lining his pockets on top of his base salary. Tired of the millions spent on C-Suite executives' salaries. Disgusted by the award the NWTF gave THP last year (or was that the year before? Idk can't remember).

I believe at the local level the NWTF chapters could do great things, and the boots on ground volunteers (like I was) have nothing but good intentions. But the national leadership spends far too much money on marketing campaigns, salaries, and all other sorts of needless fluff that isn't directly beneficial to the wild turkey.

So yes, I will consider throwing 35 bucks a year at TFT now.

You are 15.00 short. Membership is $50.00

I personally will not be renewing my NWTF membership this year for the first time in a long long time..

Their "Golden Goals" was the nail in the coffin for me. These goals are absurd to me, other than 2 and 3 (Goal #2 - $500k to Turkey Research, Goal #3 - Impact 1M acres positively)



Goal #1 - Recruit 75,000 more members
Goal #4 - $1,000,000 to Hunting Heritage Program

Why on earth are we spending money on making new hunters and members such high priority? Populations are on the decline, and turkey hunting is more popular than it has ever been.

How many people have lost turkey hunting due to the Anti's passing bills that we couldn't fight because we didn't have enough hunters? I'm all ears to hear about those, bc I sure haven't seen any in the South.

Yet all of us are losing opportunities to turkey hunt due to population decline and Over Hunting! How is making more hunters the solution here??

Goal #5 - $5,000,000 to IT infrastructure
Goal #6 - $5,000,000 to build an endowment

So $10M to that, $500k to research.

I see more use out of my dollar with TFT. I'm going Team Turkey Membership Level with them and have already seen them benefiting my home state of Tennessee. They just received an award today from Tennessee for their efforts.

Side note- NWTF also Unlisted the YouTube video they did of me hunting in Nevada . I'm very outspoken against the act of fanning turkeys and I guess they can't associate with some "purist" like myself. I stayed a member after that, but after seeing these goals, I am not renewing. I plan to spend my money impacting the acres I can and with TFT annually.


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I've Joined TFT , I believe the organization is doing the right thing and is moving in a direction that will benefit Wild Turkeys..

About the trapping , I'm not a expert on the biological benefits  of trapping , but I will say killing every single coon, crow, coyote and possum you can lay your eyes on is not going to HURT the turkey population...so kill away !

I personally will not be renewing my NWTF membership this year for the first time in a long long time..

Their "Golden Goals" was the nail in the coffin for me. These goals are absurd to me, other than 2 and 3 (Goal #2 - $500k to Turkey Research, Goal #3 - Impact 1M acres positively)



Goal #1 - Recruit 75,000 more members
Goal #4 - $1,000,000 to Hunting Heritage Program

Why on earth are we spending money on making new hunters and members such high priority? Populations are on the decline, and turkey hunting is more popular than it has ever been.

How many people have lost turkey hunting due to the Anti's passing bills that we couldn't fight because we didn't have enough hunters? I'm all ears to hear about those, bc I sure haven't seen any in the South.

Yet all of us are losing opportunities to turkey hunt due to population decline and Over Hunting! How is making more hunters the solution here??

Goal #5 - $5,000,000 to IT infrastructure
Goal #6 - $5,000,000 to build an endowment

So $10M to that, $500k to research.

I see more use out of my dollar with TFT. I'm going Team Turkey Membership Level with them and have already seen them benefiting my home state of Tennessee. They just received an award today from Tennessee for their efforts.

Side note- NWTF also Unlisted the YouTube video they did of me hunting in Nevada . I'm very outspoken against the act of fanning turkeys and I guess they can't associate with some "purist" like myself. I stayed a member after that, but after seeing these goals, I am not renewing. I plan to spend my money impacting the acres I can and with TFT annually.


:z-winnersmiley: 
I went to the NWTF  convention this year to be with friends and other than that the NWTF has lost their path. True or not I heard that the NWTF hired a company to put on the show! The NWTF is in the process of liquidating everything they have in Edgefield SC! They sold the museum to Johnny Morris and Bass Pro Shop and the museum is in Memphis Bass Pro which it cost to see! To me from what I have heard it sounds like the NWTF has dug themselves are financial hole that they might never be able to dig themselves out of why else would you liquidate all of your assets which was provided by the members. On a final note how can they sell a museum full of donated items that actually belong to someone's family showcasing the history of turkey hunting and the people involved?

Quote from: slicksbeagles1 on February 18, 2023, 09:32:20 AM
To me from what I have heard it sounds like the NWTF has dug themselves are financial hole that they might never be able to dig themselves out of why else would you liquidate all of your assets which was provided by the members.

As one who was somewhat closely involved and directly witnessed it, this is most definitely what has happened.  The NWTF "bit off more than it could chew" starting back in the 1980's.  Thinking the growth (and dollars) they were experiencing at that time would never end, they invested tons of money into infrastructure, employees, and salaries. 

Then came the realization that to support all of that stuff, they had to maintain the necessary revenue flow,...so they turned their focus more towards fundraising, banquets, and membership increases rather than the original mission of ensuring thriving wild turkey populations (and admittedly, part of that was due to the phenomenal success of focusing on that mission initially). 

"The Problem" as it stands now is that the change of focus from the mission has alienated a lot of folks who were the backbone of NWTF,...and the volunteer support system and dollars those folks brought in.  For the last couple of decades, at least, NWTF has been scrambling to make up that deficit while still holding the same debt load.

The stuff we see going on now,... the dumping of a lot of the excess baggage in all of its forms,...is an attempt to get back to some level of financial sustainability as an organization.  I think they will eventually reach that equilibrium.  Turkey hunting is popular enough that they will always have a significant base of support, regardless of the approach they take to attracting it.

In reality, what happened with NWTF is not that unusual.  We have seen it in both the non-profit and profit world over and over and over again. 

I'm sure after it's all said and done the NWTF will survive all our comments. From what I've heard the last few days from Nashville the Convention crowds have been pretty large. All organizations including NWTF / TFT will have people come and go over time...  Us older ones remember the days of old and the new generation will see a completely different path of the NWTF ..   

I agree Gobblenut and I hope they do right the ship and get back on course. It's kind of like a movie I saw once. The plane lost an engine and they had a choice of reducing the load or crashing and the first thing to go was all the luggage with the ladies pretty clothes. Nice stuff to have, but not essential. I actually commend them for doing it.

They still do good things. I will be a guide on a wheeling sportsman hunt again this spring and it is a great thing. I done my first one last year and had a great time and said sign me up next year. I guided a wounded warrior for two days and was so impressed with his fortitude. Sometimes we just need to quit whining and do some good....(preaching to myself)

I never heard of the tft. I may have to give them a look. I was a member of the nwtf here in Minnesota. I joined for a few different reasons one was to volunteer for things was hunting related, not t to raise money for someone's salary. I decided to leave when some good people here in MN got dogged out by the state chapter.

Quote from: deerhunt1988 on February 15, 2023, 09:34:45 AM
Here is something to lull over. NWTF regional directors make more money than most biologists who work for state wildlife agencies, including some of the turkey coordinators for those states.

I second this as facts and know it to be true.

Quote from: dzsmith on February 14, 2023, 03:39:25 AM
call it what you want.....in the end nothing moves without money, nothing. the nwtf has given plenty of money to plenty of things, plenty of times. mismanaged ? sure it is, but what aint??? There is no organization that goes without its corruptions , its inevitable. I like TFT as well and im a member of both, because its all we got.  i see no reason to create a one vs the other scenario...ultimately there are great people in both organizations.

Well said

[quote author=cwed

Why on earth are we spending money on making new hunters and members such high priority? Populations are on the decline, and turkey hunting is more popular than it has ever been.

How many people have lost turkey hunting due to the Anti's passing bills that we couldn't fight because we didn't have enough hunters? I'm all ears to hear about those, bc I sure haven't seen any in the South.

Yet all of us are losing opportunities to turkey hunt due to population decline and Over Hunting! How is making more hunters the solution here??



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[/quote]


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The answer is simple to why they want to make more hunters.

More hunters=more members=more money.

I have supported the NWTF in the past, but for the last 20 years I simply donate directly to my states Wildlife fund. Our state income tax form has a box on it to check and donate directly to the Wildlife fund. Make no mistake, the NWTF and TFT suppliment funding for turkeys, but they are only a small portion. The states bear the main burden and do 98% of the work. When most of the turkey restoration was done neither of these organizations existed. Instead of support we often just bitch about our state agencies. I am biased because I spent 31 years working for a Wildlife Agency and I was called a Lazy S.O.B way more than I was even told a simple thank you. The NWTF and other orgs are there when the pictures are taken, but it's the biologist and workers doing the work. If they both disappeared today turkey management would take a mild hit, but still keep on going. These organizations do good things, but their first goal is self promotion, in my opinion. I had some organizations donate funds directly to my projects and I appreciated them, but in th end they were almost always a very small part of my funding, in most cases 1-3 % of total cost. Now NWTF has dropped some big numbers in the past for land purchase and that is huge, but it's been a long time since I heard that happening. I would guess they are providing maybe 10% of turkey mangt funding in most states

The CEO salary for NWTF made $332,000 plus a couple years ago. Chew on that for awhile. Since they are a nonprofit organization, those stats are available.  Revenue was in the neighborhood of $35,000,000 to $40,000,000.

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I do think some of the research TFT is funding will have some interesting data. I hope they are looking at the fecundity of those hens that are wearing gps transmitters. I have a suspicion that is a big player in all this. If the numbers are low then the question is why.  We suspect predators are issue number one, but I would not be surprised they find differently. I also suspect, Habitat is basically unchanged in many areas of decline with only moderate changes. What I suspect is that what habitat we have just does not have the carrying capacity we hope for. I look at flock stability more than density. We experienced the saturation phenomenon during the restoration years and assumed that was carrying capacity, it may not be.
Occam's razor does not always apply, sometimes it's an obscure dynamic that requires some digging. Low Fecundity can result from low fertility rates, reduced clutch number, breeding disruption and depredation among many other factors. We find a nest that is raided by a raccoon and instantly evaluate that raccoons are taking a large percentage of nest. In most areas I believe it may be a problem worth addressing, but not a primary issue.