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Its great seeing a state being proactive and makimg changes that need to be made! State wide opening will help spread some pressure out and no decoys for the first 10 days same some birds for sure!  Hope some other states are taking notes!

I certainly think that there will be variations from state to state, but I think that the `22 season will see changes in most, if not all, of the Southeastern states.

If banning decoys for the first ten days is good, and it is good, then what is different for the rest of the season.  I am confused.

Quote from: silvestris on March 10, 2021, 02:53:02 PM
If banning decoys for the first ten days is good, and it is good, then what is different for the rest of the season.  I am confused.

Just giving the birds a better chance to breed and allowing more guys a crack at those birds I would guess.

Kind of like Missouri only allowing a single bird the first week and only one per day the second 2 weeks.

Quote from: Dtrkyman on March 10, 2021, 04:12:24 PM

Quote from: silvestris on March 10, 2021, 02:53:02 PM
If banning decoys for the first ten days is good, and it is good, then what is different for the rest of the season.  I am confused.

Just giving the birds a better chance to breed and allowing more guys a crack at those birds I would guess.

Kind of like Missouri only allowing a single bird the first week and only one per day the second 2 weeks.

I think that`s it. Trying to reduce the harvest in the very earliest part of the season to promote enhanced breeding without necessarily delaying the start of the entire season. Biologists will tell you that after hens are bred ( and it`s good to maximize the number of hens bred ), the toms become something akin to drone bees. Much more " expendable ".  If the dominant toms are removed relatively early in the breeding cycle, or if they`re removed before a maximum number of hens are bred, it can interfere with the breeding cycle. The hens go through a selection process. If that process is disrupted ( dominant tom killed ), she`s got to go through an entire selection process. Another tom doesn`t just automatically breed her. Some hens may not breed in cases such as this, thus reducing clutch numbers.

Quote from: Dtrkyman on March 10, 2021, 04:12:24 PM

Quote from: silvestris on March 10, 2021, 02:53:02 PM
If banning decoys for the first ten days is good, and it is good, then what is different for the rest of the season.  I am confused.

It is confusing :z-dizzy:

Just giving the birds a better chance to breed and allowing more guys a crack at those birds I would guess.

Kind of like Missouri only allowing a single bird the first week and only one per day the second 2 weeks.

Yep , but Missouri population is down over 50 percent too and season doesn't start until 3rd week in April. North or south MO. doesn't matter.

If Mississippi stays at March 15th they will get hammered every year.   They will make a boat load of money but the turkeys  will pay the price.

yes i sure wish my home state, MS. would move it back to March 25 or thur the 28!

Quote from: 3bailey3 on March 10, 2021, 07:11:50 PM
yes i sure wish my home state, MS. would move it back to March 25 or thur the 28!

Better move it to April 15. Enhance that breeding, so them hens don't get confused on who is supposed to breed them...

Glad to see it! The public land pressure will definitely be better spread out. Folks were jumping around with the staggered opening dates on WMAs and zone differences. Don't know why someone would feel the need to kill 5 birds in a state... Get a few, if you need more, go to the next state.. A lot of the deer hunters recently turned turkey hunters crowd won't be near as successful those first 10 days without decoys. More gobblers on the landscape to help ensure the deed is done.

Sure does suck for Mississippi public land though. Will be record sales of non-resident licenses next year.

I don't have a stake in the southeast's current situation but I know there's a portion of turkey hunters who seem to be the only fools on earth who don't believe that bag limit reductions and shortened seasons would help more turkeys survive each year.

When goose or duck numbers go down, USFWS reduce the limits and shorten the seasons.  When whitetail deer numbers go down, state agencies decrease the bag limits.  Wild turkey numbers were highest when we had considerably fewer hunters killing them.

There are too many examples of well managed private lands where harvest management is implemented with public land pieces immediately adjacent to them to dispute the efficacy of harvest reduction.  The better hunting is simply across the line on private.  It's not this great mystery as to why the higher quality hunting is on the private.  It's because they don't have every Tom, Dick and Harry filling their limits over there.  Clearly, part of the solution to the wild turkey's decline, particularly on public ground, is to simply reduce the number of turkeys Tom, Dick and Harry can kill on public lands :z-winnersmiley:

I have listened to multiple podcasts with popular turkey hunting figures who want to fight bag limit reductions/shortened seasons and I've read hundreds of comments on Facebook boards fighting against these ideas.  Meanwhile, these guys are all running around public lands filling their limits promoting public land as it continues to become depleted..... :TrainWreck1:

The status quo is simply not working in most parts of the country and I'm glad to see AL taking steps in the right direction.  I have some friends who are stakeholders down there who lobbied hard for a 3 bird bag limit and a March 25th start date; they were optimistic that some change was implemented instead of maintaining the status quo but the fight is not over.

While I agree that population decline is a multi-dimensional issue, what's best for the wild turkey certainly isn't good for the turkey hunter right now.  Contrary to popular opinion, these are mutually exclusive things and there are some guys in this community who need to start to realize that.  I'll be in a southern state next week and I'll be happy to kill one turkey(instead of 2) and drive home; I think the turkeys would be a whole lot better off if more people did the same. 

Quote from: deerhunt1988 on March 10, 2021, 08:09:57 PM
Glad to see it! The public land pressure will definitely be better spread out. Folks were jumping around with the staggered opening dates on WMAs and zone differences. Don't know why someone would feel the need to kill 5 birds in a state... Get a few, if you need more, go to the next state.. A lot of the deer hunters recently turned turkey hunters crowd won't be near as successful those first 10 days without decoys. More gobblers on the landscape to help ensure the deed is done.

Sure does suck for Mississippi public land though. Will be record sales of non-resident licenses next year.

Oh yeah that's right.  Alabama is plenty close to Mississippi.

Quote from: 3bailey3 on March 10, 2021, 07:11:50 PM
yes i sure wish my home state, MS. would move it back to March 25 or thur the 28!

Agreed.

Quote from: 3bailey3 on March 10, 2021, 07:11:50 PM
yes i sure wish my home state, MS. would move it back to March 25 or thur the 28!

I agree. Changes are coming too but I don't know what they are. There are a lot of "things" on the table right now but no decision will be made without good data to back up the change.   MS will continue to see a huge influx of non residents early in the season.

Pay the price now or pay it later when it costs more.  What I mean is if we don't make the changes we need to make now to preserve the turkey populations we have we will being paying a bigger price later.  Just my 2 cents. 


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Quote from: Kyle_Ott on March 10, 2021, 08:19:00 PM
I don't have a stake in the southeast's current situation but I know there's a portion of turkey hunters who seem to be the only fools on earth who don't believe that bag limit reductions and shortened seasons would help more turkeys survive each year.

When goose or duck numbers go down, USFWS reduce the limits and shorten the seasons.  When whitetail deer numbers go down, state agencies decrease the bag limits.  Wild turkey numbers were highest when we had considerably fewer hunters killing them.

There are too many examples of well managed private lands where harvest management is implemented with public land pieces immediately adjacent to them to dispute the efficacy of harvest reduction.  The better hunting is simply across the line on private.  It's not this great mystery as to why the higher quality hunting is on the private.  It's because they don't have every Tom, Dick and Harry filling their limits over there.  Clearly, part of the solution to the wild turkey's decline, particularly on public ground, is to simply reduce the number of turkeys Tom, Dick and Harry can kill on public lands :z-winnersmiley:

I have listened to multiple podcasts with popular turkey hunting figures who want to fight bag limit reductions/shortened seasons and I've read hundreds of comments on Facebook boards fighting against these ideas.  Meanwhile, these guys are all running around public lands filling their limits promoting public land as it continues to become depleted..... :TrainWreck1:

The status quo is simply not working in most parts of the country and I'm glad to see AL taking steps in the right direction.  I have some friends who are stakeholders down there who lobbied hard for a 3 bird bag limit and a March 25th start date; they were optimistic that some change was implemented instead of maintaining the status quo but the fight is not over.

While I agree that population decline is a multi-dimensional issue, what's best for the wild turkey certainly isn't good for the turkey hunter right now.  Contrary to popular opinion, these are mutually exclusive things and there are some guys in this community who need to start to realize that.  I'll be in a southern state next week and I'll be happy to kill one turkey(instead of 2) and drive home; I think the turkeys would be a whole lot better off if more people did the same.

I would like to see how many turkey hunters there are down there in Alabama , compared to how many turkeys?

Not trying to sound selfish, but being from MS, I am dreading the influx of OOSers next spring (and every spring...)  earliest season opener in the continental US except for South FL.

I have a hard time just finding a bird in south MS at season opening... by April 1st, they are insanely scarce.

Fewer turkeys almost everywhere, exponentially more turkey hunters almost everywhere.  Not good for either the birds or the hunters.

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Georgia will probably be making changes before next season.
Some of the possible changes are:
Later start date for the season

Lower limit to two gobblers

Only one gobbler first 10 days of season

and there are others being discussed!

I have definitely noticed a reduction in turkey encounters the last few years!

Yes our season opens two to three weeks before all bordering states open and at lest a mouth before the rest of the country, so yes we do get hammered early! I would like to see my state move it back to when other states open.

Quote from: 3bailey3 on March 10, 2021, 08:47:01 PM
Yes our season opens two to three weeks before all bordering states open and at lest a mouth before the rest of the country, so yes we do get hammered early! I would like to see my state move it back to when other states open.

I can agree with that. Missouri hunters used to like the early Kansas opener, that's for sure , you could even notice the east side , closer to home had a lot more Missouri tags at the walk ins.

Georgia is looking to change some things, but I think the one bird during the first 10 days is ridiculous for a working man that has to schedule vacation.

It would really suck to take the first week of turkey season, kill a bird opening day and then twiddle your thumbs for the rest of your time.

In my opinion, it will not matter what rules are changed until they determine what caused the rapid decrease in numbers.

My theory is increased chicken manure, I watched a 10K acre quail plantation that was ate up in birds and was and still is on a heavy predator control become almost extinct of birds over a 2-3 year period immediately after increased use of manure. It's not the gobblers that are missing, it is ALL the turkeys. No hens means no birds.

Also, it is not just that farm, it is the whole area and the common denominator is heavy use of the manure.

Other parts of the state that is not agriculture have lots of birds and they seem to be thriving in those areas. Luckily, I have 3 different private places in these thriving areas.

We need a solution to the problem, not a band aid.

Quote from: Kyle_Ott on March 10, 2021, 08:19:00 PM
I don't have a stake in the southeast's current situation but I know there's a portion of turkey hunters who seem to be the only fools on earth who don't believe that bag limit reductions and shortened seasons would help more turkeys survive each year.

When goose or duck numbers go down, USFWS reduce the limits and shorten the seasons.  When whitetail deer numbers go down, state agencies decrease the bag limits.  Wild turkey numbers were highest when we had considerably fewer hunters killing them.

There are too many examples of well managed private lands where harvest management is implemented with public land pieces immediately adjacent to them to dispute the efficacy of harvest reduction.  The better hunting is simply across the line on private.  It's not this great mystery as to why the higher quality hunting is on the private.  It's because they don't have every Tom, Dick and Harry filling their limits over there.  Clearly, part of the solution to the wild turkey's decline, particularly on public ground, is to simply reduce the number of turkeys Tom, Dick and Harry can kill on public lands :z-winnersmiley:

I have listened to multiple podcasts with popular turkey hunting figures who want to fight bag limit reductions/shortened seasons and I've read hundreds of comments on Facebook boards fighting against these ideas.  Meanwhile, these guys are all running around public lands filling their limits promoting public land as it continues to become depleted..... :TrainWreck1:

The status quo is simply not working in most parts of the country and I'm glad to see AL taking steps in the right direction.  I have some friends who are stakeholders down there who lobbied hard for a 3 bird bag limit and a March 25th start date; they were optimistic that some change was implemented instead of maintaining the status quo but the fight is not over.

While I agree that population decline is a multi-dimensional issue, what's best for the wild turkey certainly isn't good for the turkey hunter right now.  Contrary to popular opinion, these are mutually exclusive things and there are some guys in this community who need to start to realize that.  I'll be in a southern state next week and I'll be happy to kill one turkey(instead of 2) and drive home; I think the turkeys would be a whole lot better off if more people did the same.

Nail, meet head.  Good post.  And furthering that point is that hunter induced mortality is a small drop in the bucket on migrating ducks and geese.  The same is not true for turkey at all.  Way higher hunter mortality in the male turkey population.  Way higher.

I practice what I preach on Redfish too-only kept one in the two days most times, sometimes none.  I don't keep ANY spotted seatrout over 20" unless gut hooked (one over 20 is legal). 

i agree a lot with the chicken manure theory, a few places i have hunted use it a lot and have way less birds, one guy that had big fields around our club and put out chicken manure to help grow his fields for his  cows and always found dead birds in his fields and he claimed it was not the manure. I have always heard to used feeders not breeders for manure.

Quote from: deerhunt1988 on March 10, 2021, 08:09:57 PM
Glad to see it! The public land pressure will definitely be better spread out. Folks were jumping around with the staggered opening dates on WMAs and zone differences. Don't know why someone would feel the need to kill 5 birds in a state... Get a few, if you need more, go to the next state.. A lot of the deer hunters recently turned turkey hunters crowd won't be near as successful those first 10 days without decoys. More gobblers on the landscape to help ensure the deed is done.

Sure does suck for Mississippi public land though. Will be record sales of non-resident licenses next year.

I kill 6 in my state and used to kill 6 in another state and kill 7 in another state and kill at least 4 in another and try and kill 5 in Al even. Too bad limits aren't higher

Seems to be pretty bad populations in some states.
Some states have reports of around 2.5-3 turkeys per hunter.  They all ain't toms. They don't have one tag and of course many don't get a single bird. That's a ton of hunters per bird.

Quote from: Kyle_Ott on March 10, 2021, 08:19:00 PM
I don't have a stake in the southeast's current situation but I know there's a portion of turkey hunters who seem to be the only fools on earth who don't believe that bag limit reductions and shortened seasons would help more turkeys survive each year.

When goose or duck numbers go down, USFWS reduce the limits and shorten the seasons.  When whitetail deer numbers go down, state agencies decrease the bag limits.  Wild turkey numbers were highest when we had considerably fewer hunters killing them.

There are too many examples of well managed private lands where harvest management is implemented with public land pieces immediately adjacent to them to dispute the efficacy of harvest reduction.  The better hunting is simply across the line on private.  It's not this great mystery as to why the higher quality hunting is on the private.  It's because they don't have every Tom, Dick and Harry filling their limits over there.  Clearly, part of the solution to the wild turkey's decline, particularly on public ground, is to simply reduce the number of turkeys Tom, Dick and Harry can kill on public lands :z-winnersmiley:

I have listened to multiple podcasts with popular turkey hunting figures who want to fight bag limit reductions/shortened seasons and I've read hundreds of comments on Facebook boards fighting against these ideas.  Meanwhile, these guys are all running around public lands filling their limits promoting public land as it continues to become depleted..... :TrainWreck1:

The status quo is simply not working in most parts of the country and I'm glad to see AL taking steps in the right direction.  I have some friends who are stakeholders down there who lobbied hard for a 3 bird bag limit and a March 25th start date; they were optimistic that some change was implemented instead of maintaining the status quo but the fight is not over.

While I agree that population decline is a multi-dimensional issue, what's best for the wild turkey certainly isn't good for the turkey hunter right now.  Contrary to popular opinion, these are mutually exclusive things and there are some guys in this community who need to start to realize that.  I'll be in a southern state next week and I'll be happy to kill one turkey(instead of 2) and drive home; I think the turkeys would be a whole lot better off if more people did the same.

You compared the reduction of bag limits of turkeys to that of waterfowl and whitetail, that they reduce the bag limits to help numbers as well. I cant speak for the whitetail, but I can speak on the waterfowl, as this is a hot topic among the waterfowl community right now. Long story short, we have two decades of reduced harvest limits on certain species, and just waterfowl bag limits in general, and the data shows the hunter harvest has almost zero impact on waterfowl populations. And this is coming from big names, like Delta Watefowl. In fact, reduced harvest numbers are showing to have a negative impact on the pintail, primarily because surplus drakes are harassing hens during nesting season and hatch numbers are suffering as a result. The major things that affect watefowl numbers are, #1: habitat, #2: predation. I think by and large this can be applied to all game, especially the wild turkey.

Again, hunters and wildlife managers are in the business of restricting and taking things away to "help the population numbers." Lower the bag limits. No decoys. One bird per day. One in the first ten days. People, WE ARE SHOOTING OURSELVES IN THE FOOT. Who defends hunting? HUNTERS. Who funds conservation? HUNTERS. You and I may continue to hunt no matter what, but the only thing that will keep our right to hunt, is a future generation that loves it as much as we do, and continuing to chip away at access and opportunities to hunt is also chipping away at the numbers of people who will stand up and defend our right to hunt. These are the next people who would give conservtion dollars to ensure the survival of the species as well... Contrary to popular belief, less hunters is not a good thing!

I think hunters and conservationists as a whole need to restructure the things we do in order to ensure there will even be game to hunt in the next 100 years. I think a lot of that includes donating time and money to create more habitat, and access to quality hunting opportunities. Its going to take effort from everyone. If not we will continue to slide down this slippery slope of regulating people straight out of hunting right to the living room couch, and hunting will be a thing of the past.

Quote from: Hook hanger on March 10, 2021, 10:15:01 PM

Quote from: deerhunt1988 on March 10, 2021, 08:09:57 PM
Glad to see it! The public land pressure will definitely be better spread out. Folks were jumping around with the staggered opening dates on WMAs and zone differences. Don't know why someone would feel the need to kill 5 birds in a state... Get a few, if you need more, go to the next state.. A lot of the deer hunters recently turned turkey hunters crowd won't be near as successful those first 10 days without decoys. More gobblers on the landscape to help ensure the deed is done.

Sure does suck for Mississippi public land though. Will be record sales of non-resident licenses next year.

I kill 6 in my state and used to kill 6 in another state and kill 7 in another state and kill at least 4 in another and try and kill 5 in Al even. Too bad limits aren't higher

Cool.

Quote from: Kyle_Ott on March 10, 2021, 08:19:00 PM


I have listened to multiple podcasts with popular turkey hunting figures who want to fight bag limit reductions/shortened seasons and I've read hundreds of comments on Facebook boards fighting against these ideas.  Meanwhile, these guys are all running around public lands filling their limits promoting public land as it continues to become depleted..... :TrainWreck1:

If my 'making a living' depended on killing public land turkeys and filming it, I guess I'd have to be against bag limit and opportunity reductions too. But my living involves making more turkeys. Hopefully one of the many current turkey research projects will be able to shed some light on the situation soon. I know some of the studies have been going on for years yet there doesn't seem to be a good job of presenting the data and results to the public.

Quote from: g8rvet on March 10, 2021, 09:50:43 PM

Quote from: Kyle_Ott on March 10, 2021, 08:19:00 PM
I don't have a stake in the southeast's current situation but I know there's a portion of turkey hunters who seem to be the only fools on earth who don't believe that bag limit reductions and shortened seasons would help more turkeys survive each year.

When goose or duck numbers go down, USFWS reduce the limits and shorten the seasons.  When whitetail deer numbers go down, state agencies decrease the bag limits.  Wild turkey numbers were highest when we had considerably fewer hunters killing them.

There are too many examples of well managed private lands where harvest management is implemented with public land pieces immediately adjacent to them to dispute the efficacy of harvest reduction.  The better hunting is simply across the line on private.  It's not this great mystery as to why the higher quality hunting is on the private.  It's because they don't have every Tom, Dick and Harry filling their limits over there.  Clearly, part of the solution to the wild turkey's decline, particularly on public ground, is to simply reduce the number of turkeys Tom, Dick and Harry can kill on public lands :z-winnersmiley:

I have listened to multiple podcasts with popular turkey hunting figures who want to fight bag limit reductions/shortened seasons and I've read hundreds of comments on Facebook boards fighting against these ideas.  Meanwhile, these guys are all running around public lands filling their limits promoting public land as it continues to become depleted..... :TrainWreck1:

The status quo is simply not working in most parts of the country and I'm glad to see AL taking steps in the right direction.  I have some friends who are stakeholders down there who lobbied hard for a 3 bird bag limit and a March 25th start date; they were optimistic that some change was implemented instead of maintaining the status quo but the fight is not over.

While I agree that population decline is a multi-dimensional issue, what's best for the wild turkey certainly isn't good for the turkey hunter right now.  Contrary to popular opinion, these are mutually exclusive things and there are some guys in this community who need to start to realize that.  I'll be in a southern state next week and I'll be happy to kill one turkey(instead of 2) and drive home; I think the turkeys would be a whole lot better off if more people did the same.

Nail, meet head.  Good post.  And furthering that point is that hunter induced mortality is a small drop in the bucket on migrating ducks and geese.  The same is not true for turkey at all.  Way higher hunter mortality in the male turkey population.  Way higher.

I practice what I preach on Redfish too-only kept one in the two days most times, sometimes none.  I don't keep ANY spotted seatrout over 20" unless gut hooked (one over 20 is legal).

Certainly in the Spring, and perhaps for the entire year if total mortality were examined, the main predator for adult male wild turkeys walks on two legs. I`ve been satisfied with a self imposed limit of one bird/season here in Georgia.

Quote from: 3bailey3 on March 10, 2021, 10:03:30 PM
i agree a lot with the chicken manure theory, a few places i have hunted use it a lot and have way less birds, one guy that had big fields around our club and put out chicken manure to help grow his fields for his  cows and always found dead birds in his fields and he claimed it was not the manure. I have always heard to used feeders not breeders for manure.

The issue of chicken litter as fertilizer and its impact on turkey populations seems to me would be relatively easy to study by wildlife biologists. Also, I`m pretty sure it would be relatively easy and quick to determine toxicity . I`m actually a bit surprised that that`s not already studied and published.

Quote from: deerhunt1988 on March 10, 2021, 08:09:57 PM

Sure does suck for Mississippi public land though. Will be record sales of non-resident licenses next year.

I don't hunt public but I feel for those that do...unfortunately it doesn't matter to those who sit behind a desk watching the revenue pour in.

If anyone has the "scientific research" that has been done to bring about this change, I would love to see it. I'm talking about legitimate research proving how this shortened limit and later season will magically bring up turkey numbers. Not chuckle saying how he feels that this is a good idea. How about some research data that show turkey population numbers in areas vs. population numbers of areas that get hunted on 3/15. I would love to see that data since that would prove that the change is justified. Anyone have that available?

Quote from: Hevishot 13 on March 11, 2021, 03:26:40 PM
If anyone has the "scientific research" that has been done to bring about this change, I would love to see it. I'm talking about legitimate research proving how this shortened limit and later season will magically bring up turkey numbers. Not chuckle saying how he feels that this is a good idea. How about some research data that show turkey population numbers in areas vs. population numbers of areas that get hunted on 3/15. I would love to see that data since that would prove that the change is justified. Anyone have that available?

How do you propose doing that research without making the change at a meaningful scale?

Quote from: Extendo Clip on March 11, 2021, 04:01:03 PM

Quote from: Hevishot 13 on March 11, 2021, 03:26:40 PM
If anyone has the "scientific research" that has been done to bring about this change, I would love to see it. I'm talking about legitimate research proving how this shortened limit and later season will magically bring up turkey numbers. Not chuckle saying how he feels that this is a good idea. How about some research data that show turkey population numbers in areas vs. population numbers of areas that get hunted on 3/15. I would love to see that data since that would prove that the change is justified. Anyone have that available?

How do you propose doing that research without making the change at a meaningful scale?

Two controlled properties with similar habitat, populations, and weather. Like maybe adjacent or adjoining large scale properties. No close enough that birds will wander from one property to the other, but close enough to keep the variables consistent between the two. I'm no scientist (like others claim are making these changes) but it seems like that's the only way to prove that the season start date and bag limit are contributing factors for the turkey decline.

Quote from: Turkeytider on March 11, 2021, 08:26:26 AM

Quote from: g8rvet on March 10, 2021, 09:50:43 PM

Quote from: Kyle_Ott on March 10, 2021, 08:19:00 PM
I don't have a stake in the southeast's current situation but I know there's a portion of turkey hunters who seem to be the only fools on earth who don't believe that bag limit reductions and shortened seasons would help more turkeys survive each year.

When goose or duck numbers go down, USFWS reduce the limits and shorten the seasons.  When whitetail deer numbers go down, state agencies decrease the bag limits.  Wild turkey numbers were highest when we had considerably fewer hunters killing them.

There are too many examples of well managed private lands where harvest management is implemented with public land pieces immediately adjacent to them to dispute the efficacy of harvest reduction.  The better hunting is simply across the line on private.  It's not this great mystery as to why the higher quality hunting is on the private.  It's because they don't have every Tom, Dick and Harry filling their limits over there.  Clearly, part of the solution to the wild turkey's decline, particularly on public ground, is to simply reduce the number of turkeys Tom, Dick and Harry can kill on public lands :z-winnersmiley:

I have listened to multiple podcasts with popular turkey hunting figures who want to fight bag limit reductions/shortened seasons and I've read hundreds of comments on Facebook boards fighting against these ideas.  Meanwhile, these guys are all running around public lands filling their limits promoting public land as it continues to become depleted..... :TrainWreck1:

The status quo is simply not working in most parts of the country and I'm glad to see AL taking steps in the right direction.  I have some friends who are stakeholders down there who lobbied hard for a 3 bird bag limit and a March 25th start date; they were optimistic that some change was implemented instead of maintaining the status quo but the fight is not over.

While I agree that population decline is a multi-dimensional issue, what's best for the wild turkey certainly isn't good for the turkey hunter right now.  Contrary to popular opinion, these are mutually exclusive things and there are some guys in this community who need to start to realize that.  I'll be in a southern state next week and I'll be happy to kill one turkey(instead of 2) and drive home; I think the turkeys would be a whole lot better off if more people did the same.

Nail, meet head.  Good post.  And furthering that point is that hunter induced mortality is a small drop in the bucket on migrating ducks and geese.  The same is not true for turkey at all.  Way higher hunter mortality in the male turkey population.  Way higher.

I practice what I preach on Redfish too-only kept one in the two days most times, sometimes none.  I don't keep ANY spotted seatrout over 20" unless gut hooked (one over 20 is legal).

Certainly in the Spring, and perhaps for the entire year if total mortality were examined, the main predator for adult male wild turkeys walks on two legs. I`ve been satisfied with a self imposed limit of one bird/season here in Georgia.

Good point.  I just started fall hunting again (legal in Florida) and if I kill a Gobbler in the fall, I will only kill one in the spring. 

Quote from: Hevishot 13 on March 11, 2021, 03:26:40 PM
If anyone has the "scientific research" that has been done to bring about this change, I would love to see it. I'm talking about legitimate research proving how this shortened limit and later season will magically bring up turkey numbers. Not chuckle saying how he feels that this is a good idea. How about some research data that show turkey population numbers in areas vs. population numbers of areas that get hunted on 3/15. I would love to see that data since that would prove that the change is justified. Anyone have that available?

Good points as well. In Florida we just went through this in our zone for redfish.  They proposed lowering again to one per day.  Guides started losing their minds.  Wanted data to prove they needed to lower the limit.  Many of us pointed out that there was no data that led to them increasing our limit to 2 (rest of state was one).  Sometimes, season dates and bag limits are set on a "best guess" situation.  I don't like that either though.  Probably the only way to know would be to change it.  But then if the MS dates were like those in nearby states, the only reason for lesser kills would be lesser OOS hunters. 

To someone that asked for more money for habitat, I would ask the Feds to use the Pittman Robertson money correctly.  We are already paying!  I know I don't trust them to spend it wisely. 

What I don't get is insisting on a 45 day season. Why not just end on April 30?

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I think the University of Auburn has been conducting a study of later dates for a few years now, i think Ms dept of wildlife has had later start dates on a few WMA's  for a few years now , should be able to see the results!

and Auburn study might be the cause of the Al. changes.

The only study auburn has done is delaying the season by a week on the wma's and recording how many birds were taken. Not a very good study to delay the season on public land and record the results. We are talking about an astronomical Of hunting pressure on these places. Those studies wouldn't show much.

The decoys will do 10 times more than any date or limit decrease.   Need that outside the box thinking.  Open season on predators year round any and all means necessary.  That will do more than anything. Do it.

Quote from: Hevishot 13 on March 11, 2021, 03:26:40 PM
If anyone has the "scientific research" that has been done to bring about this change, I would love to see it. I'm talking about legitimate research proving how this shortened limit and later season will magically bring up turkey numbers. Not chuckle saying how he feels that this is a good idea. How about some research data that show turkey population numbers in areas vs. population numbers of areas that get hunted on 3/15. I would love to see that data since that would prove that the change is justified. Anyone have that available?

I'm a little confused how anyone could question if decreasing the number of animals killed would contribute to a higher quality hunting experience through higher population?  Haven't modern conservation practices validated its an effective tactic with virtually every species regulated by game laws?

To address the question regarding studies, MS jakes are protected because there was a study conducted indicating a jake had a 94% chance of making it to its second year of life.  It isn't exactly what you're asking for but it is a quality example of harvest management leading to a higher number of gobblers in the population. 

I am 100% for shooting less turkeys to ensure there are more turkeys gobbling each year on public and private lands across the US. 

I was terrible at turkey hunting for a long time and the only reason I continued to hunt was because I continually heard turkeys gobble.  Gobbling turkeys continued to allure me back despite the considerable odds stacked against me as a young boy with no mentor.  But I kept going back to the woods, and I kept going back and they kept gobbling.  Sometimes 3 of them; sometimes 15 of them.  But I almost always heard gobbling despite rarely seeing one and it allowed me to develop from a terrible turkey hunter into a decent one today. 

I cannot imagine being a kid on some of the public land around the United States where I am walking 6-12 miles per day to find a bird.  I cannot imagine being a new hunter going turkey hunting on public ground for consecutive days without hearing a gobble.  Public land in many places around the US will never be as good as private but the number of gobbling turkeys heard on many public lands around the country is considerably fewer and the pressure is now considerably higher.

Killing more turkeys is not the answer.  This shouldn't even need to debated among intelligent people.  We need more people to get on board with killing fewer.  It doesn't mean the turkey hunting lifestyle can't continue to thrive.  It just means you don't go out of state on public land and fill your damn limit.  It means you think about the consequences of killing on a macro level and you do less of it to ensure these birds and a quality hunting experience is ensured in the future. 

Ok hear me out.  Decoys don't matter to me, kinda like people hunting deer over corn feeders.  Corn is for women, children and boys that don't know how.  If you can't figure out how to kill a turkey without a decoy then you need to give up.  Start date of season still doesn't matter at all if, all states don't go to a mandatory tag system.  Because, who knows how many birds are being killed.  If everyone is worried about out of state hunters, let's try this.   For example: Mississippi gonna get ha.mered next season by folks cause Bama is opening later.  What if Mississippi starts same date as always for residents but is pushed back a couple weeks for non residents.  Also just like fish: when numbers are low the states say you can't keep them during spawning season, or in times that they are easily harvested.  Example in my part of Florida you can't keep a speckled trout in February. Not because of spawning but when it gets cold they congregate in deep holes in the river.  Find the hole and everybody gets a limit for a few days until they are all gone.   So many its time for no more spring turkey season when birds are the most vulnerable.

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Here's another thought worthy of consideration in the debate over hunting pressure.  Much of the concern for nonresident state-hopping appears to be a function of varying starting dates in the different states. If the southern tier of states would consult with each other and agree to start their hunts all at the same time, it would solve some of the problems being discussed here. 

Quote from: Hevishot 13 on March 11, 2021, 03:26:40 PM
If anyone has the "scientific research" that has been done to bring about this change, I would love to see it. I'm talking about legitimate research proving how this shortened limit and later season will magically bring up turkey numbers. Not chuckle saying how he feels that this is a good idea. How about some research data that show turkey population numbers in areas vs. population numbers of areas that get hunted on 3/15. I would love to see that data since that would prove that the change is justified. Anyone have that available?

The scientific data is there supporting later starting dates. Not comparison studies that you desire but studies of breeding habits and how hunting pressure effects recruitment.

With advancements in GPS tracking biologist have been able to gain extensive valuable info on the habits of these birds. In the past they used to have to manually track these birds with radio collars and receivers. Now all they have to do is show up, connect to the transmitter, and download the data. The amount of data they gather dwarfs radio collar/ receiver data they collected in the past.

These studies are showing that turkeys breed in an expanded/exploded Lek type system similar to sharptail grouse/prairie chicken Leks where all the birds in an area show up to these Leks to breed. Turkeys are the same but on an expanded level. These Leks allow hens to choose the dominant toms to breed with.

What studies are showing, contrary to popular belief, is when a hen chooses a dominant Tom to breed with its not a decision made on the spur of the moment. The future of the species depends on it. Its not a decision she takes lightly. When these dominant toms are taken out of the population too early in the breeding cycle it delays/prolongs the breeding cycle. Hens don't just breed with next available Tom. She has to go through  the whole process of selecting a dominant Tom again. The decision might take a day it might take 2 weeks or more depending on the social structure of the toms in the area.
What they are finding also is that hens don't just breed willy nilly. They breed according to their pecking order. The Dominant hen breeds 1st. This might take a day or 2 even more. When she's done the second in line takes her turn and so on.
You might say "so what at least the hens are getting bred".

Well  they are also finding turkeys use a saturation type nesting system. Most hens in an area will nest and hatch their polts during short period of time. Saturating the landscape with predator food. Eating is good but only for a short period of time.
Delaying the breeding by taking dominant toms out of the population prolongs the availability of these polts and vulnerable hens to predators allowing for more to be taken.

Findings also show polts that hatch later in the breeding cycle are less likely to survive their 1st year simply because they are just not big enough.

There is scientific data that supports later starting dates.
It's not the end all be all solution to falling turkey numbers but it is one of the factors we can control.

If your numbers are as far down as folks describe, you have to start somewhere to make improvements or at least stabilize the flock.  Later starting dates and decreased bag limits sure as heck won't cause a decline in numbers.  So what if it's not the final solution.   Stand around passing up partial solutions in hopes for the perfect solution and you'll find yourself doing too little too late.

Quote from: Hobbes on March 12, 2021, 01:05:36 AM
If your numbers are as far down as folks describe, you have to start somewhere to make improvements or at least stabilize the flock.  Later starting dates and decreased bag limits sure as heck won't cause a decline in numbers.  So what if it's not the final solution.   Stand around passing up partial solutions in hopes for the perfect solution and you'll find yourself doing too little too late.

But are numbers really down? Alabama had the best harvest ever recorded last year. 

Quote from: Parrot Head on March 10, 2021, 06:54:36 PM
If Mississippi stays at March 15th they will get hammered every year.   They will make a boat load of money but the turkeys  will pay the price.

Its been getting hammered man.

Quote from: n2deer on March 12, 2021, 03:51:57 AM

Quote from: Hobbes on March 12, 2021, 01:05:36 AM
If your numbers are as far down as folks describe, you have to start somewhere to make improvements or at least stabilize the flock.  Later starting dates and decreased bag limits sure as heck won't cause a decline in numbers.  So what if it's not the final solution.   Stand around passing up partial solutions in hopes for the perfect solution and you'll find yourself doing too little too late.

But are numbers really down? Alabama had the best harvest ever recorded last year.

I can't help you there.  I'm making a general statement that applies anywhere.  I've not been in the SE in years.  There seems to be a general consensus that numbers are down in a lot of the US. 

Quote from: n2deer on March 12, 2021, 03:51:57 AM
But are numbers really down? Alabama had the best harvest ever recorded last year.

I think Georgia also has a record harvest.   But I was expecting that, thank you COVID.    Our population numbers aren't even close to what they were 7-10 ten years ago.   It will be interesting to see the harvest numbers this year, but I'm betting they won't be close to last years.   The cause and solution?    I have no idea. 

Quote from: n2deer on March 12, 2021, 03:51:57 AM

Quote from: Hobbes on March 12, 2021, 01:05:36 AM
If your numbers are as far down as folks describe, you have to start somewhere to make improvements or at least stabilize the flock.  Later starting dates and decreased bag limits sure as heck won't cause a decline in numbers.  So what if it's not the final solution.   Stand around passing up partial solutions in hopes for the perfect solution and you'll find yourself doing too little too late.

But are numbers really down? Alabama had the best harvest ever recorded last year.

If you had the same or approximately the same number of hunters in the woods as pre-COVID , that might indicate good numbers. Otherwise, your increased harvest numbers may only be a reflection of more people shooting turkeys.

                                                                [/quote]

But are numbers really down? Alabama had the best harvest ever recorded last year.
[/quote]

That's because Alabama has only had "mandatory" reporting for a few years. The percentage of hunters actually doing so has gradually increased and probably has little, if any correlation with fluctuations in the actual harvest.

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Quote from: Paulmyr on March 12, 2021, 12:48:26 AM

Quote from: Hevishot 13 on March 11, 2021, 03:26:40 PM
If anyone has the "scientific research" that has been done to bring about this change, I would love to see it. I'm talking about legitimate research proving how this shortened limit and later season will magically bring up turkey numbers. Not chuckle saying how he feels that this is a good idea. How about some research data that show turkey population numbers in areas vs. population numbers of areas that get hunted on 3/15. I would love to see that data since that would prove that the change is justified. Anyone have that available?

The scientific data is there supporting later starting dates. Not comparison studies that you desire but studies of breeding habits and how hunting pressure effects recruitment.

With advancements in GPS tracking biologist have been able to gain extensive valuable info on the habits of these birds. In the past they used to have to manually track these birds with radio collars and receivers. Now all they have to do is show up, connect to the transmitter, and download the data. The amount of data they gather dwarfs radio collar/ receiver data they collected in the past.

These studies are showing that turkeys breed in an expanded/exploded Lek type system similar to sharptail grouse/prairie chicken Leks where all the birds in an area show up to these Leks to breed. Turkeys are the same but on an expanded level. These Leks allow hens to choose the dominant toms to breed with.

What studies are showing, contrary to popular belief, is when a hen chooses a dominant Tom to breed with its not a decision made on the spur of the moment. The future of the species depends on it. Its not a decision she takes lightly. When these dominant toms are taken out of the population too early in the breeding cycle it delays/prolongs the breeding cycle. Hens don't just breed with next available Tom. She has to go through  the whole process of selecting a dominant Tom again. The decision might take a day it might take 2 weeks or more depending on the social structure of the toms in the area.
What they are finding also is that hens don't just breed willy nilly. They breed according to their pecking order. The Dominant hen breeds 1st. This might take a day or 2 even more. When she's done the second in line takes her turn and so on.
You might say "so what at least the hens are getting bred".

Well  they are also finding turkeys use a saturation type nesting system. Most hens in an area will nest and hatch their polts during short period of time. Saturating the landscape with predator food. Eating is good but only for a short period of time.
Delaying the breeding by taking dominant toms out of the population prolongs the availability of these polts and vulnerable hens to predators allowing for more to be taken.

Findings also show polts that hatch later in the breeding cycle are less likely to survive their 1st year simply because they are just not big enough.

There is scientific data that supports later starting dates.
It's not the end all be all solution to falling turkey numbers but it is one of the factors we can control.

Dr. Mike Chamberlain and others hold this position. Timing is everything in turkey breeding and poult survival. Disrupting the breeding cycle and its timing, thereby reducing or eliminating the "poult flood " is apparently a concept either not understood or just flat not accepted by far too many hunters. Toms are like drone bees. Once the max number of hens are bred, they become more "expendable " in a way that will not do nearly as much harm to the population. I`ve believed that if you started the season a couple of weeks later, maybe tack on a few extra days on the back end of the season, it will help. Won`t completely solve the population issue, but I believe it will help.

Just my observation but when we ran from April 15th to May 15th we had tons of birds. Then we went to starting april 1 to may 31 and numbers have decreased in my area 90% since the peak. No chicken litter spreading here. Also the number of folks coming here has increased astronomically.

Not too long ago, the wild turkey was basically extinct in SC. Their rebound is a huge wildlife management success story. Numbers peaked within the last decade, and now we are seeing  numbers decrease a little. Am I overly concerned? No, wildlife population numbers always fluctuate. However, we will watch what happens. In response to this decline, SCDNR has decided to reduce harvest limits, length of season and adjust dates, one bird per day and in first ten days, etc... They say that the hatch has not been good the past few years. Which is ironic, as I hunt turkeys on public land atleast 3 days every week, and the public lands where I hunt were all prescribed burned in massive tracts all throughout the months of March to July. And they wonder wht hatch numbers were low. Yeah, reducing harvest will fix it...

Okay. I may step on some toes here, so ask for forgiveness in advance.

I started turkey hunting here in Missouri in 1977, turning 26 during that first season. Killed my first gobbler in 79, tagged out for the first time in 80. Thought I was a pro then, but that's another story.

We've always, in modern history, had a mandatory tagging and check in system for deer and turkey. In those days, it was an adhesive backed paper tag issued by the state via the license vendor. I think, not sure, that those tags were not replaceable.

Every animal had to be transported to a certified check station the day of harvest. Memory fails me, but I think, because of our closure of noon, one o'clock DST, 6:00 pm was the cutoff time for checking in a Spring turkey. Additionally, we had a very restrictive season of fourteen days, two bird limit, one bird each week. Each tag was only good for 7 days, so if you didn't score the first week, your limit was 1 bird the next.

Every hunter like me in Missouri who began hunting in the modern era "grew up" with that system, and mindset, of mandatory tagging and reporting. It was just the way things were done, and most hunters complied. Was there cheating, poaching? Of course, some people will never follow the rules no matter the consequences, otherwise the prisons would be empty.

Fast forward a few years, and circumstances allowed me to hunt in Mississippi a couple of years in 1989 and 90, if I remember correctly. The limit was, I am sure, 3 birds like it is now.

I suppose I inherited my Dad's ability to converse with people in that, for whatever reason, people feel comfortable talking to me, and I found those in the South, for the most part, friendly and inviting.

Talking to virtually every hunter I ran into, a picture of the culture began to emerge. Most, if not all, openly admitted to exceeding the limit. One colorful young man told me that he had a friend that bagged 15 gobblers the year before. Several were shot strutting in a field with a rifle, which was legal at that time. He was appalled by the method, but seemed less concerned about the numbers, and freely admitted he killed way more than the limit every year.

Another hunter, about my age at the time, told me it was only his second year of chasing turkeys, he had only deer hunted prior to that, and was obsessed with it. He had killed 7 birds the previous year. Said the long season was just too tempting and he just couldn't stop going. To his credit, he said he felt bad, and wasn't going to do it again. Who knows if he maintained that attitude.

Add almost a decade, and I was able to hunt Mississippi again for a couple of years, but things had changed a bit. Birds on the Delta, where I had hunted before, were virtually extirpated by the flood of 93. Birds were scarce on public land throughout the state, and a no jakes rule had gone into effect. In those 2 years of hunting, I managed to kill only one bird, so began looking for somewhere new to try, and after talking to several people, decided to give Alabama a try.

Five bird limit, 6 week season. It must be Heaven! I serendipitously ran into a local the next year while hunting there who ultimately became one of my closest friends and have been fortunate enough to go down and hunt with him annually the ensuing 20 years or so.

A lot has changed in those 20+ years. I never did set the world on fire with my turkey harvest numbers. Public land hunting in the South is tough, but I managed most years to bag a bag a bird or two and goof up on more than that. The population has definitely seemed to decrease on  the limited areas of public land I hunt every year, and the harvest numbers on those areas reflect that while the feral hog population has exploded.

But I digress from the subject. My friend there is a straight shooter, but he knows lots of other hunters, and it's obvious from his experience that the culture I witnessed 30 years ago in Mississippi is still alive and well, at least to some extent.

He has told me several times that it's kind of common knowledge among his acquaintances that certain people through the years never seem to kill their 5th gobbler. One through four are always bragged about, then radio silence. Since the mandatory reporting has come into play, he says guys he knows still don't report all their deer kills, even though they are all completely legal.

In my opinion, until that culture changes, most of data regarding harvest numbers throughout the South is largely a guess. The extremely long seasons are basically an invitation to cheat. The length of the season definitely influences the total harvest, no matter what the legal limit might be.

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It would be great if all the south started later, keep those boys there and leave us northern hunters alone

Just kidding but I would guess that's why guys argue for the early hunting so they can travel and extend their season!


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Covid, over the limit, too many move ins and out of state hunters, etc  still doesn't explain what happened to the hens.


No hens in the state of Georgia have been legally killed and very few are poached, but they have all but  disappeared in a lot of areas.

My club on the GA/AL line has a bunch of birds and has zero agriculture, zero predator control and the population has been stable for years. Same on another tract that I hunt in mid GA, no AG, no predator hunters, but a big population. Same where I work, stable to growing population.

The big quail plantation and the surrounding area with heavy AG, heavy predator trapping and prime habitat that I keep talking about and it is full of quail, but the turkeys died of something.

The difference in the quail plantation and the other clubs that I hunt is there is an abundance of hens on the non AG area tracts.

I have no idea what happened or what will help, but reducing the number of gobblers or time allowed to hunt them will not effect the number of hens and in turn, the number of their poults.

Quote from: Sixes on March 12, 2021, 11:37:02 AM
Covid, over the limit, too many move ins and out of state hunters, etc  still doesn't explain what happened to the hens.


No hens in the state of Georgia have been legally killed and very few are poached, but they have all but  disappeared in a lot of areas.

My club on the GA/AL line has a bunch of birds and has zero agriculture, zero predator control and the population has been stable for years. Same on another tract that I hunt in mid GA, no AG, no predator hunters, but a big population. Same where I work, stable to growing population.

The big quail plantation and the surrounding area with heavy AG, heavy predator trapping and prime habitat that I keep talking about and it is full of quail, but the turkeys died of something.

The difference in the quail plantation and the other clubs that I hunt is there is an abundance of hens on the non AG area tracts.

I have no idea what happened or what will help, but reducing the number of gobblers or time allowed to hunt them will not effect the number of hens and in turn, the number of their poults.

That`s interesting. I can only assume that in the areas that have few hens there are few gobblers as well. Could well be a problem with nest/poult survival. Interdict the breeding cycle by taking out dominant gobblers too early you could have fewer hens bred and hens bred intermittently. Nesting gets spaced out, thus no poult storm to overwhelm predators and increase the number of survivors. Hens that do nest later after going through another tom selection process have lower poult survival, that`s been recorded, It`s a cascade that ends up with fewer turkeys, both hens and gobblers.

It wasn't really gradual,  it was over about 2 seasons. Turkeys, lots of hens and gobblers, all over the property and area, you couldn't drive to lunch and not see strutters standing in open AG fields. You couldn't ride around at 830 in thr morning or half hour before dark and not see hens strolling around.

Then, it was like everything died out. Gobblers and hens.

Even if there was a couple of bad hatches, that doesn't explain all the missing adults from one year to the next.

Quote from: Sixes on March 12, 2021, 12:26:29 PM
It wasn't really gradual,  it was over about 2 seasons. Turkeys, lots of hens and gobblers, all over the property and area, you couldn't drive to lunch and not see strutters standing in open AG fields. You couldn't ride around at 830 in the morning or half hour before dark and not see hens strolling around.
Then, it was like everything died out. Gobblers and hens.
Even if there was a couple of bad hatches, that doesn't explain all the missing adults from one year to the next.

That sounds like an infectious disease outbreak to me.  I can't think of any other explanation for a quick die-off like that. 

Quote from: GobbleNut on March 12, 2021, 01:47:32 PM

Quote from: Sixes on March 12, 2021, 12:26:29 PM
It wasn't really gradual,  it was over about 2 seasons. Turkeys, lots of hens and gobblers, all over the property and area, you couldn't drive to lunch and not see strutters standing in open AG fields. You couldn't ride around at 830 in the morning or half hour before dark and not see hens strolling around.
Then, it was like everything died out. Gobblers and hens.
Even if there was a couple of bad hatches, that doesn't explain all the missing adults from one year to the next.

That sounds like an infectious disease outbreak to me.  I can't think of any other explanation for a quick die-off like that.

I agree, that`s something dramatic and quick. In a very quick die off, I`m surprised somebody didn`t find at least some remains.

Quote from: dzsmith on March 12, 2021, 05:03:58 AM

Quote from: Parrot Head on March 10, 2021, 06:54:36 PM
If Mississippi stays at March 15th they will get hammered every year.   They will make a boat load of money but the turkeys  will pay the price.

Its been getting hammered man.

Was wondering if it was just me. Been hunting a particular forest for about 13 years now. And this year so far seems to be unbelievable.

Literally like 3 years worth of people combined. If your first spot don't pan out it's very difficult to find another spot to move to.

Thinking I may be seeing some THP affect too. This is making it a lot less fun lol


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  This Spring- New Jersey is opening their Spring Turkey Season a Full 7 Days Later then Spring of 2020. Last year the opener was April 20th and this Spring of 2021- the Opening Date is April 26th.  I am thinking alot more Hens will be Bred with this later starting date.
   Hopefully New Jersey will also put a Spring Turkey take " Cap" at 4 Spring Gobblers Max  in Future years.

   To go with my post above. I  probably  will hear more Gobbling in New Jersey with an opening day a full 7 Days later then Spring of 2020. Looking forward to April 26th this Spring!!

The hunters will suffer. Here in SC they shortened the season a week.  Made it where they tell you what week you can kill a bird during the season.  Tags are now not free as they were for 40 years all the while the limit decreased by 40%.  All in the last 4 years these changes have taken place. What has it done for population?   Nothing.

What will actually help?  No decoys. No burning after March 15. Open all predator seasons year round by all means necessary including avian predators.   Give incentives for not cutting roost areas.  Don't bushhog May and June.  Give incentives to not cut hay fields until later on.

Here in Ms. the season has been needing to be pushed back for a while now

Quote from: surehuntsalot on March 18, 2021, 09:57:34 PM
Here in Ms. the season has been needing to be pushed back for a while now

I live in far south MS and watch toms breed hens routinely in May (if there any left to service the hens and jennies)

Peak nest initiation is start of 2nd week of April down here. Very little actual breeding has occurred when season opens Mar 15th.  And that's in far south MS.  It's prob another 10d behind that in North MS.

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Quote from: tazmaniac on March 18, 2021, 10:07:19 PM

Quote from: surehuntsalot on March 18, 2021, 09:57:34 PM
Here in Ms. the season has been needing to be pushed back for a while now

I live in far south MS and watch toms breed hens routinely in May (if there any left to service the hens and jennies)

Peak nest initiation is start of 2nd week of April down here. Very little actual breeding has occurred when season opens Mar 15th.  And that's in far south MS.  It's prob another 10d behind that in North MS.

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So that means that dominant toms are getting killed off before maximum breeding. That`s a prescription for a declining population. Hopefully Ms. DNR will wise up.

I have enjoyed Mississippi for a long, long time, but on public there are too few turkeys and way too many hunters.  One could get permission to hunt a lot of private by just asking.  But first the taped (Primos and others) and now the digital hunts on Utube have turned the deer hunters into turkey chasers and I finally totally understand what the old friend meant when he advised me to keep my mouth shut some 45 years ago.  I plan to make 3-4 hunts in my own state this year and I am not burdened by unrealistic expectations.  At 72, I really haven't the time for things to get better, but it was worth the ride.

Quote from: owlhoot on March 10, 2021, 08:30:24 PM

Quote from: Kyle_Ott on March 10, 2021, 08:19:00 PM
I don't have a stake in the southeast's current situation but I know there's a portion of turkey hunters who seem to be the only fools on earth who don't believe that bag limit reductions and shortened seasons would help more turkeys survive each year.

When goose or duck numbers go down, USFWS reduce the limits and shorten the seasons.  When whitetail deer numbers go down, state agencies decrease the bag limits.  Wild turkey numbers were highest when we had considerably fewer hunters killing them.

There are too many examples of well managed private lands where harvest management is implemented with public land pieces immediately adjacent to them to dispute the efficacy of harvest reduction.  The better hunting is simply across the line on private.  It's not this great mystery as to why the higher quality hunting is on the private.  It's because they don't have every Tom, Dick and Harry filling their limits over there.  Clearly, part of the solution to the wild turkey's decline, particularly on public ground, is to simply reduce the number of turkeys Tom, Dick and Harry can kill on public lands :z-winnersmiley:

I have listened to multiple podcasts with popular turkey hunting figures who want to fight bag limit reductions/shortened seasons and I've read hundreds of comments on Facebook boards fighting against these ideas.  Meanwhile, these guys are all running around public lands filling their limits promoting public land as it continues to become depleted..... :TrainWreck1:

The status quo is simply not working in most parts of the country and I'm glad to see AL taking steps in the right direction.  I have some friends who are stakeholders down there who lobbied hard for a 3 bird bag limit and a March 25th start date; they were optimistic that some change was implemented instead of maintaining the status quo but the fight is not over.

While I agree that population decline is a multi-dimensional issue, what's best for the wild turkey certainly isn't good for the turkey hunter right now.  Contrary to popular opinion, these are mutually exclusive things and there are some guys in this community who need to start to realize that.  I'll be in a southern state next week and I'll be happy to kill one turkey(instead of 2) and drive home; I think the turkeys would be a whole lot better off if more people did the same.

I would like to see how many turkey hunters there are down there in Alabama , compared to how many turkeys?

To darn many...


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Quote from: Sixes on March 12, 2021, 11:37:02 AM
Covid, over the limit, too many move ins and out of state hunters, etc  still doesn't explain what happened to the hens.


No hens in the state of Georgia have been legally killed and very few are poached, but they have all but  disappeared in a lot of areas.

My club on the GA/AL line has a bunch of birds and has zero agriculture, zero predator control and the population has been stable for years. Same on another tract that I hunt in mid GA, no AG, no predator hunters, but a big population. Same where I work, stable to growing population.

The big quail plantation and the surrounding area with heavy AG, heavy predator trapping and prime habitat that I keep talking about and it is full of quail, but the turkeys died of something.

The difference in the quail plantation and the other clubs that I hunt is there is an abundance of hens on the non AG area tracts.

I have no idea what happened or what will help, but reducing the number of gobblers or time allowed to hunt them will not effect the number of hens and in turn, the number of their poults.

Not going to dispute your position, as you may very well be right. However I think one thing contributing to the population decline in GA/AL is easily found. Our populations started to decrease ten years or so ago as I understand it. Isn't it awfully coincidental that the population of wild hogs was significantly exploding in most areas at that time, and ever since? My family farms and we fight wild hogs year round, they are relentless and opportunistic, one of the worst invasive pests in my lifetime. They do tremendous damage to nests, destroy habitat, and will actually make deer and turkeys leave the area. Now consider this; nowadays there are not nearly as many trappers making a living off furbearers, and only a fraction of serious coon hunters left anymore. So in conclusion, we have much higher predator populations running mostly unchecked, and a destructive influx of wild hogs on top of that. Now add Georgia's "online game check" and that's an unscrupulous hunters dream come true. No way to accurately record real harvest numbers or hold poachers accountable. Until Georgia gets serious about a wild hog control plan, as well as a more robust game check or tagging system, I believe our population will continue to slide downhill.


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Just returned from a less popular public tract in Alabama. Spent 2 days there . If you think a bag limit reduction isn't necessary.... you are wrong. This tract was huge , this tract is managed , this tract is on a burn rotation. This tract has no turkeys . I saw one track in 2 days after miles and miles of ground covered . I heard zero gobbles in 2 days. I drove through a lot of fields , like 100 or more, not on the public obviously , and it had rained the night before . I never saw a single turkey . Not one. The only living animal I saw in those 2 days besides a squirrel was hogs . In broad daylight, on public . You spook them , they simply run about 20 yards and continue to root and eat. I climbed the highest hill in the area only to find rooting and hog poop, I went to the deepest swamp in the area only to find rooting and hog poop. The problem for some area of this state are very serious . Very very serious . One interesting thing I did find was virtually no local hunters .... I wonder why. No deer either . Actually the lowest amount of whitetail sign I've seen anywhere in North America in my entire existence. It was pathetic man.... I mean. Flat out horrible .... i