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Been thinking about what we "require" or expect now out of turkey guns at 40yds, and I was wondering what's the magic number you're looking for in a 10" circle? Obviously this is load dependent so just mention the load and what you're happy with or hoping to get out of it in the 10" at 40yds.

I've always been more into pattern shape and uniformity than numbers but shot some HEVI 13 #7s for the first time recently and found myself very disappointed in the 10" numbers at 40. Pattern was good and even with nothing much getting outside 20" but the 10" numbers were only ~130ish (2oz of HEVI so roughly a quarter of the load). Saw someone mention this morning on a different post that they were getting 250s but were disappointed the choke wasn't getting 280s as advertised and that got me wondering how much numbers is too much numbers? Most of us here seem to be tinkerers by nature so maybe we're all just bound to be dissatisfied


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WOW!!!  130ish!!! 

I shoot 2 1/4 oz 7's through a .670 Pure Gold out of my 835 and she puts up over 300 devastating results on birds.  With that being said, I have many boxes of the early 7's that shot so well before Hevi changed some of their components.

To answer your question and as you stated, it depends on the ammo, lot numbers of that ammo, choke and gun.  Many on this site have done their Due Diligence, experimented with many loads and chokes and have shared those results, which gives the rest of us a GREAT starting point.  Each of us have to decide how much we want to spend to obtain OUR desired results.  Dead is Dead but the Ol Standard is 100 pellets in 10 at 40.

My Standard is 300 plus of Hevi #7's because I've seen what they will do at various ranges.

I try REALLY hard to keep things into perspective (with everything in life-but specifically with patterning)

For many, many years I shot lead and copper plated lead and never felt under-gunned.  I always kept shots under 40 and can only recall losing 1 bird over the years. 

Fast forward to TSS and the other newer loads, we're FAR exceeding what we had back then.  I know I'm stating the obvious, but it's back to that perspective.  I was happy and EFFECTIVE back then.  I only changed because I wanted to, not because I had to. 

So when I look at TSS patterns today, I look at it as insurance.  If it's even and consistent, I know it's going to be better than lead so I don't worry about it.  I could chase numbers-and do with reloading CF and MLs, but for some reason, for patterning, I can be a lot more content.

Not sure if that's helpful or not, but it's my perspective. 

Quote from: bbcoach on February 02, 2021, 09:01:19 AM
WOW!!!  130ish!!! 

I shoot 2 1/4 oz 7's through a .670 Pure Gold out of my 835 and she puts up over 300 devastating results on birds.  With that being said, I have many boxes of the early 7's that shot so well before Hevi changed some of their components.

To answer your question and as you stated, it depends on the ammo, lot numbers of that ammo, choke and gun.  Many on this site have done their Due Diligence, experimented with many loads and chokes and have shared those results, which gives the rest of us a GREAT starting point.  Each of us have to decide how much we want to spend to obtain OUR desired results.  Dead is Dead but the Ol Standard is 100 pellets in 10 at 40.

My Standard is 300 plus of Hevi #7's because I've seen what they will do at various ranges.

Yeah, those HEVI numbers were low enough that I found myself counting and bothered for the first time. I've always patterned my guns but like I said have always been more concerned with overall shape and continuity. I wondered if the load wasn't over-choked. If I broke 250 I'd never bat an eye. Here's a thread of those patterns: CZ 1012 with Rob Roberts .660 Invector Plus
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=17578&share_tid=101167&url=http%3A%2F%2Foldgobbler%2Ecom%2FForum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D101167&share_type=t&link_source=app


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Quote from: CALLM2U on February 02, 2021, 09:12:23 AM
I try REALLY hard to keep things into perspective (with everything in life-but specifically with patterning)

For many, many years I shot lead and copper plated lead and never felt under-gunned.  I always kept shots under 40 and can only recall losing 1 bird over the years. 

Fast forward to TSS and the other newer loads, we're FAR exceeding what we had back then.  I know I'm stating the obvious, but it's back to that perspective.  I was happy and EFFECTIVE back then.  I only changed because I wanted to, not because I had to. 

So when I look at TSS patterns today, I look at it as insurance.  If it's even and consistent, I know it's going to be better than lead so I don't worry about it.  I could chase numbers-and do with reloading CF and MLs, but for some reason, for patterning, I can be a lot more content.

Not sure if that's helpful or not, but it's my perspective.

I'd say that perspective's not only helpful but a savior on the billfold. Chasing numbers is a money game and unfortunately I've got little


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Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 02, 2021, 09:13:11 AM
Yeah, those HEVI numbers were low enough that I found myself counting and bothered for the first time. I've always patterned my guns but like I said have always been more concerned with overall shape and continuity. I wondered if the load wasn't over-choked. If I broke 250 I'd never bat an eye. Here's a thread of those patterns: CZ 1012 with Rob Roberts .660 Invector Plus
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=17578&share_tid=101167&url=http%3A%2F%2Foldgobbler%2Ecom%2FForum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D101167&share_type=t&link_source=app

I hear you. I shot the 2 oz. Hevi-13 #7s through an original .660 JH tube. I would easily put up 250+ depending on how dirty the barrel was, or MORE IMPORTANTLY, unless the buffer leaked out of the Hevi shell. Loosing buffer seemed to be the biggest issue achieving a tight pattern. I ended up dripping candle wax on the Hevi crimps to help prevent the buffer from leaking in my cargo pants pockets, something the customer shouldn't have to do to fix a manufacturing issue...

Here's my only Hevi-13 #7 pattern I can find, it was through the same JH choke at .660 and my 1300 with the 22" barrel. My original factory dipped bottomland H&R single will do similar numbers with the same JH choke.

I can remember being happy with 190-200 in the 10@40 from the Federal Heviweight #7's. That load was and still is devastating. I have since moved on to hand loading TSS for my 20's.  even without trying I can get 280-300 in any of my 4 guns.  I just have a problem leaving things alone....

130 hits in a 10" circle at 40 yards is more than enough to kill a turkey ethically.  100 in the 10" is what the rule is.  I remember stepping 25 yards and shooting a coke can.  If it had 10 pellets or so we moved back to 30 and so on until you felt there were not enough pellets in the can.  I probably made better decisions in my shots before I knew about circling holes in paper.

My issue with Hevi is not that there are adequate numbers, but as price rise pattern numbers dropped.  I always shot Hevi 3.5 2.25 oz 6s.  My first patterns averaged 225 which is more than needed, but the last box I bought I paid $15 more for the box and the pattern was 140.  Nothing changed except what Hevi did.  I will not buy anything from them any more because I am not chasing lot numbers or paying premium money for shells that I can go buy a cheap box and do about the same thing with.

Quote from: Fullfan on February 02, 2021, 09:52:29 AM
I just have a problem leaving things alone....

That's ones of the things I love most about most of us on this forum. Like I said above, we're tinkerers who just can't leave well enough alone.

Quote from: davisd9 on February 02, 2021, 09:54:15 AM
130 hits in a 10" circle at 40 yards is more than enough to kill a turkey ethically.  100 in the 10" is what the rule is.

Most assuredly. Just as pie plate groups at 100 are good enough to kill deer. But for the same reason I want my rifle to shoot cloverleaf patterns, I want to know what each shotgun is fully capable of. I never shot any of the older HEVI. Never shot any until now. But if I can't get the numbers up I surely won't be buying more.


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I never achieve the patterns or bench mark numbers that get posted around here but I flatten birds just fine.

I'm not much in to tinker though I set up a shotgun, rifle, bow to kill and be proficient with it but nothing I do with any of those will wow people on the internet.

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I never chase numbers on paper , i just kill turkeys ... Ok i will add , as long as my pattern with gun, shell and choke are pretty much uniform, that's all i care about .. i really don't worry so much about the numbers in 10 inch circle..  I don't want my pattern to tight for up close or far out , just good even pattern.

Killing turkeys isn't so much the point of my question. First birds I killed were from a fixed modified New England Firearms Pardner SBI 20ga with Winchester Super X #5s. I only ever "patterned" it at 25yds. Killed them dead dead just fine. The point of my question is wanting to achieve the most possible out of a given shotgun, choke, and shell combination and where one sets those numbers.


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Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 02, 2021, 11:25:03 AM
Killing turkeys isn't so much the point of my question. First birds I killed were from a fixed modified New England Firearms Pardner SBI 20ga with Winchester Super X #5s. I only ever "patterned" it at 25yds. Killed them dead dead just fine. The point of my question is wanting to achieve the most possible out of a given shotgun, choke, and shell combination and where one sets those numbers.


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I think of it less in a number and more as a percentage - getting to 50% of the load downrange in the 10" circle. Using pellet count per ounce data from the internet...

If there are 512 #7 Hevi-13 in a 2oz. load, and you're putting 50% of that load in a 10" circle at 40 yards or 256 hits, that's a smoking pattern.

If there are 588 #9 TSS in a 1 5/8th oz. load for the 20 gauge and you're putting 50% of that load in a 10" circle at 40 yards, or 295 hits, again a strong load / choke combo.

If there are 444 #6 lead shot in a 2 oz. load and you're putting 22% of those in a 10" circle at 40 yards, you're at the minimum of 100 hits. If you tweak the choke and get closer to 50% in the 10" ring at 40 yards with 220 or so hits, well that's going to be a great lead load.

If 50% of the downrange load is inside that 10" ring, and the balance 50% is evenly dispersed in the 20" ring around it, good to go. Anything greater than 50% inside the 10" ring at 40 yards might start to get tricky and too tight at 20 yards. About striking balance.

:z-twocents:

We've come a long way from what was available 40 years ago! I think you're right to pattern until you get a pattern that you have 100% confidence in. There's nothing wrong with striving for perfection. As Vince Lombardi said,"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

Quote from: paboxcall on February 02, 2021, 12:05:28 PM

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 02, 2021, 11:25:03 AM
Killing turkeys isn't so much the point of my question. First birds I killed were from a fixed modified New England Firearms Pardner SBI 20ga with Winchester Super X #5s. I only ever "patterned" it at 25yds. Killed them dead dead just fine. The point of my question is wanting to achieve the most possible out of a given shotgun, choke, and shell combination and where one sets those numbers.


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I think of it less in a number and more as a percentage - getting to 50% of the load downrange in the 10" circle. Using pellet count per ounce data from the internet...

If there are 512 #7 Hevi-13 in a 2oz. load, and you're putting 50% of that load in a 10" circle at 40 yards or 256 hits, that's a smoking pattern.

If there are 588 #9 TSS in a 1 5/8th oz. load for the 20 gauge and you're putting 50% of that load in a 10" circle at 40 yards, or 295 hits, again a strong load / choke combo.

If there are 444 #6 lead shot in a 2 oz. load and you're putting 22% of those in a 10" circle at 40 yards, you're at the minimum of 100 hits. If you tweak the choke and get closer to 50% in the 10" ring at 40 yards with 220 or so hits, well that's going to be a great lead load.

If 50% of the downrange load is inside that 10" ring, and the balance 50% is evenly dispersed in the 20" ring around it, good to go. Anything greater than 50% inside the 10" ring at 40 yards might start to get tricky and too tight at 20 yards. About striking balance.

:z-twocents:

That's a super helpful way of looking at it. I think that's a rule I can get behind.


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Shooting 2.5oz of TSS #9s I think a even pattern with 500 in the 10 and 300 in the 20.

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 02, 2021, 09:13:11 AM

Quote from: bbcoach on February 02, 2021, 09:01:19 AM
WOW!!!  130ish!!! 

I shoot 2 1/4 oz 7's through a .670 Pure Gold out of my 835 and she puts up over 300 devastating results on birds.  With that being said, I have many boxes of the early 7's that shot so well before Hevi changed some of their components.

To answer your question and as you stated, it depends on the ammo, lot numbers of that ammo, choke and gun.  Many on this site have done their Due Diligence, experimented with many loads and chokes and have shared those results, which gives the rest of us a GREAT starting point.  Each of us have to decide how much we want to spend to obtain OUR desired results.  Dead is Dead but the Ol Standard is 100 pellets in 10 at 40.

My Standard is 300 plus of Hevi #7's because I've seen what they will do at various ranges.

Yeah, those HEVI numbers were low enough that I found myself counting and bothered for the first time. I've always patterned my guns but like I said have always been more concerned with overall shape and continuity. I wondered if the load wasn't over-choked. If I broke 250 I'd never bat an eye. Here's a thread of those patterns: CZ 1012 with Rob Roberts .660 Invector Plus
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=17578&share_tid=101167&url=http%3A%2F%2Foldgobbler%2Ecom%2FForum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D101167&share_type=t&link_source=app


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What you have with hevi7's will do the job. Yes its 130 is low for that load. Change chokes if you want better.
That .660 rob roberts I have for the Remington guns is the lowest performing choke I have ever seen. Not a cheap one either . And I have shot lots of chokes and loads in Remington guns.

Quote from: Gobble! on February 02, 2021, 02:37:39 PM
Shooting 2.5oz of TSS #9s I think a even pattern with 500 in the 10 and 300 in the 20.

Was just thinking when is Gobble! going to show up?

The post about the percentage of shot concept was pretty good way of looking at a pattern. I'm the one who started the other thread with 255 pellets in a 10 and wanting to tighten it up. So off of the percentage theory I talked to Nitro and got the total pellet count for my 4/5/7 blend and it's 597. Doing the math I have 43% of my pellet load in the 10 @ 40 yards so I'd like to get that up based off of the 50% pattern which id be PERFECTLY happy with

Quote from: RiverRoost on February 02, 2021, 06:41:22 PM
The post about the percentage of shot concept was pretty good way of looking at a pattern. I'm the one who started the other thread with 255 pellets in a 10 and wanting to tighten it up. So off of the percentage theory I talked to Nitro and got the total pellet count for my 4/5/7 blend and it's 597. Doing the math I have 43% of my pellet load in the 10 @ 40 yards so I'd like to get that up based off of the 50% pattern which id be PERFECTLY happy with

I love the tinkering and trying to get everything as close to perfect as we can. What else are we supposed to do in the off season?!? If I had your numbers I'd probably be all right, but I completely understand the desire. And the truth is you might throw in another choke and get something perfect or throw in another choke and blow the pattern all to hell. That's the fun of it. Here's hoping your next choke gets you to the former rather than the latter.


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I remember the utter disappointment the first time i touched off a 2 1/4 oz double x mag back in the day, after clearing the cob webs out and walking up to the target I was like really, that is it?

Did not count numbers then but I remember it was less than 20 in the head and neck!  Pathetic, when heavy shot first came out, the Remington version that started looking pretty good!

Now my 1 5/8 tss 20ga handloads are crazy good!  Man we have come a long way.

That being said I have never crippled a turkey in 29 seasons hunting these amazing birds, crappy old loads included!  Know your limitations!

I didn't count it but like it! (http://i.imgur.com/xZTpuiT.jpg) (https://imgur.com/xZTpuiT)

I've been loading tss for seval years now.  I'm past tinkering.  I know what works in my guns and I stick to it.  I will say the most hunter friendly tss load I've ever seen was 2 oz of 9s out of my remington with a turkey extra full (.687)  it shot 280/10 and was so even. 

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 02, 2021, 08:17:08 AM
Been thinking about what we "require" or expect now out of turkey guns at 40yds, and I was wondering what's the magic number you're looking for in a 10" circle? Obviously this is load dependent so just mention the load and what you're happy with or hoping to get out of it in the 10" at 40yds.

I've always been more into pattern shape and uniformity than numbers but shot some HEVI 13 #7s for the first time recently and found myself very disappointed in the 10" numbers at 40. Pattern was good and even with nothing much getting outside 20" but the 10" numbers were only ~130ish (2oz of HEVI so roughly a quarter of the load). Saw someone mention this morning on a different post that they were getting 250s but were disappointed the choke wasn't getting 280s as advertised and that got me wondering how much numbers is too much numbers? Most of us here seem to be tinkerers by nature so maybe we're all just bound to be dissatisfied


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Are you sure that's the center part of the pattern? When I first shot my 935 it was terrible, but it was shooting a foot high!


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Quote from: Gentry on February 03, 2021, 09:18:08 AM

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 02, 2021, 08:17:08 AM
Been thinking about what we "require" or expect now out of turkey guns at 40yds, and I was wondering what's the magic number you're looking for in a 10" circle? Obviously this is load dependent so just mention the load and what you're happy with or hoping to get out of it in the 10" at 40yds.

I've always been more into pattern shape and uniformity than numbers but shot some HEVI 13 #7s for the first time recently and found myself very disappointed in the 10" numbers at 40. Pattern was good and even with nothing much getting outside 20" but the 10" numbers were only ~130ish (2oz of HEVI so roughly a quarter of the load). Saw someone mention this morning on a different post that they were getting 250s but were disappointed the choke wasn't getting 280s as advertised and that got me wondering how much numbers is too much numbers? Most of us here seem to be tinkerers by nature so maybe we're all just bound to be dissatisfied


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Are you sure that's the center part of the pattern? When I first shot my 935 it was terrible, but it was shooting a foot high!


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Yes, I was shooting roughly a 40x40" piece of paper with a reactive turkey target taped to it so that I could flip it over and look at overall shape. Very even pattern but lacked any sort of of core. Spread evenly over about 25". Some folks even say it's a good pattern (and it is even and forgiving), but as far as pellet count about 25% of the load is all that was within the 10".

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210203/167f6722f958b9637a411d724715109c.jpg)


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Ok good. Maybe try a new tube, but I can assure you he's dead!


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Quote from: Gentry on February 03, 2021, 10:02:00 AM
Ok good. Maybe try a new tube, but I can assure you he's dead!


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Absolutely, he's dead.


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Looking at this subject from a little different perspective...

I'm not a pellet counter.  What I am is a turkey hunter that wants to feel absolutely certain that what I shoot will kill a gobbler cleanly every time at forty yards,...or a little farther if I happen to misjudge the distance.  If I do my part, the gun and load will do its part. 

The thought that always goes through my mind with pellet counting and what seems to be an obsession with "numbers" is what is the reasoning behind the obsession?  If it is because a guy is a "still target shoot" competitor,...or maybe just a target-shooting enthusiast,...then I get that. 

However, in my mind, I suspect there might be a mindset in some folks of,..."hmmm, my gun puts 300 pellets in a 10-inch circle at 40 yards, so that means that it will put enough pellets in that gobbler that is standing out there at 70 yards to kill him,...so here goes!"  (lest anybody think this is not a reality, please refer to certain YouTube videos)

Call me an alarmist with limited faith in turkey-hunter self-discipline, but unfortunately I think there are far too many pellet counters out there whose motives are to be able to go ahead and shoot at those 70 yard gobblers. 

Now, don't nobody here be goin' and gettin' their snood in a knot. I'm not accusing anybody here on OG of having that mindset.  Just pointing out what I consider to be a valid concern about all the hype over numbers-counting.  I am sure it does not apply to anybody around here.   :)

Quote from: GobbleNut on February 03, 2021, 11:19:24 AM
Looking at this subject from a little different perspective...

I'm not a pellet counter.  What I am is a turkey hunter that wants to feel absolutely certain that what I shoot will kill a gobbler cleanly every time at forty yards,...or a little farther if I happen to misjudge the distance.  If I do my part, the gun and load will do its part. 

The thought that always goes through my mind with pellet counting and what seems to be an obsession with "numbers" is what is the reasoning behind the obsession?  If it is because a guy is a "still target shoot" competitor,...or maybe just a target-shooting enthusiast,...then I get that. 

However, in my mind, I suspect there might be a mindset in some folks of,..."hmmm, my gun puts 300 pellets in a 10-inch circle at 40 yards, so that means that it will put enough pellets in that gobbler that is standing out there at 70 yards to kill him,...so here goes!"  (lest anybody think this is not a reality, please refer to certain YouTube videos)

Call me an alarmist with limited faith in turkey-hunter self-discipline, but unfortunately I think there are far too many pellet counters out there whose motives are to be able to go ahead and shoot at those 70 yard gobblers. 

Now, don't nobody here be goin' and gettin' their snood in a knot. I'm not accusing anybody here on OG of having that mindset.  Just pointing out what I consider to be a valid concern about all the hype over numbers-counting.  I am sure it does not apply to anybody around here.   :)

You may be right in some instances. Personally I ain't got a place I hunt where I could shoot 50, much less 70. They're usually too stinking close when they get to me. I just like shooting and I like seeing what equipment is capable of. Same reason I'll run 10 or 15 different types of ammo through a new rifle to see what patterns best. I can think of two birds I've killed through the years that I likely couldn't have killed with the original fixed modified Pardner SBI 20ga and #5 lead loads I started out with.


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Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 03, 2021, 09:37:56 AM

Quote from: Gentry on February 03, 2021, 09:18:08 AM

Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 02, 2021, 08:17:08 AM
Been thinking about what we "require" or expect now out of turkey guns at 40yds, and I was wondering what's the magic number you're looking for in a 10" circle? Obviously this is load dependent so just mention the load and what you're happy with or hoping to get out of it in the 10" at 40yds.

I've always been more into pattern shape and uniformity than numbers but shot some HEVI 13 #7s for the first time recently and found myself very disappointed in the 10" numbers at 40. Pattern was good and even with nothing much getting outside 20" but the 10" numbers were only ~130ish (2oz of HEVI so roughly a quarter of the load). Saw someone mention this morning on a different post that they were getting 250s but were disappointed the choke wasn't getting 280s as advertised and that got me wondering how much numbers is too much numbers? Most of us here seem to be tinkerers by nature so maybe we're all just bound to be dissatisfied


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Are you sure that's the center part of the pattern? When I first shot my 935 it was terrible, but it was shooting a foot high!


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Yes, I was shooting roughly a 40x40" piece of paper with a reactive turkey target taped to it so that I could flip it over and look at overall shape. Very even pattern but lacked any sort of of core. Spread evenly over about 25". Some folks even say it's a good pattern (and it is even and forgiving), but as far as pellet count about 25% of the load is all that was within the 10".

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210203/167f6722f958b9637a411d724715109c.jpg)


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Nothing wrong with that pattern.

I'll admit that I've gotten caught up some in the pellet count game but it's most definitely not to try to shoot them at longer ranges, it just the fact that I feel like for the amount of money I have in my gun and then what shells and choke cost a piece I feel like if you are going to spend the money on these higher end equipment items then you should be able to get all their performance out of them. And I know what our "ethical" range we are allowed to talk about on here is but every one of us has shot one that's either closer or farther than we judged sitting on our butts and I want all the "insurance" I can get. Having the best possible at 40 isn't a terrible issue at 20 anymore with the optics we run these days also.

Quote from: owlhoot on February 02, 2021, 03:25:18 PM

Quote from: Gobble! on February 02, 2021, 02:37:39 PM
Shooting 2.5oz of TSS #9s I think a even pattern with 500 in the 10 and 300 in the 20.

Was just thinking when is Gobble! going to show up?

I'm still young and dumb.

I still shoot 6 lead upland game loads. Pattern the gun and stay in my comfort zone.

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...Was looking at one of the turkey hunting Facebook pages.  Way too many folks talking about shooting at turkeys at ranges out to 100 yards and basically just making the statement that their guns/loads will shoot that far, so it is okay.  Just the kind of thought process that I fear with folks getting too much into guns/chokes/loads that will kill (or more likely wound) turkeys at extreme ranges without having a corresponding mindset that there is still an ethical consideration about shooting turkeys at those ranges. 

My question is, where does this stop?  At what point does "turkey hunting" just become "turkey shooting"?

Quote from: GobbleNut on February 06, 2021, 11:19:40 AM
...Was looking at one of the turkey hunting Facebook pages.  Way too many folks talking about shooting at turkeys at ranges out to 100 yards and basically just making the statement that their guns/loads will shoot that far, so it is okay.  Just the kind of thought process that I fear with folks getting too much into guns/chokes/loads that will kill (or more likely wound) turkeys at extreme ranges without having a corresponding mindset that there is still an ethical consideration about shooting turkeys at those ranges. 

My question is, where does this stop?  At what point does "turkey hunting" just become "turkey shooting"?

It already has become "turkey shooting" a lot of the time and cases.
Two co workers are always arguing with me that you need to check your setup for a 60yd or longer shot "just in case" deal, they are not the first that I have had an argument with about this.

Man this has been a great thread. I tinker with my chokes and shell combos until I find something I like. I have only changed 2 times in 22 years. At some point it is no longer hunting, it's a bragging competition. I listen to it every day, read about it frequently, and see it on videos monthly. Do what makes you happy and I'll reserve my judgment for the level of idiocy.

Great thread!

Right now I want a hotter core at 40yds. That's my end game. I'd love 40-50% of the load in the 10" with the rest in the 20". Trying to get as close to that as possible.


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Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 11, 2021, 11:14:14 AM
Right now I want a hotter core at 40yds. That's my end game. I'd love 40-50% of the load in the 10" with the rest in the 20". Trying to get as close to that as possible.


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Kinda where I'm trying to get to as well. I really like that 50%+ idea from an earlier post with the rest in the twenty.

The percentage equation is good.  But with some loads like tss I have the option that anything over 300/10" is a waist of shot.  My gun shoots 320/10
with 2 oz of #9 and I don't want it any tighter. 

Quote from: Gooserbat on February 11, 2021, 05:13:41 PM
The percentage equation is good.  But with some loads like tss I have the option that anything over 300/10" is a waist of shot.  My gun shoots 320/10
with 2 oz of #9 and I don't want it any tighter.

Never thought of tss that way especially in a 12 ga. While I tend to think tss is a waste in a 12 with your point it does give you the nice option of basically controlling your core at 40 and a pretty heavy 20.

I shoot TSS out of my turkey rigs, but it's because I think it's the best option available.
For a while I shot the Federal Heviweight, until it got discontinued, and I gave my son all I had left and I stockpiled it whenever I found some.
I shot the 3-1.25-7 hevi-13 out of my 20 with a SumToy choke and got a very even 120 in the 10" circle at 40 yards. Killed my best gobbler to date with that load.
I think chasing numbers can be a frustrating endeavor. More important that you have a very even pattern of at least 100 pellets in the aforementioned  distance.
I get 187 pellets in the 10" circle at 30 yards with Winchester Longbeard 3-1.25-6's, and that's my go to when I'm hunting logging roads or deep woods when I know shots are gonna be close and there isn't a need to deal with a field gobbler hung up at 40.
I know I loose too much in my pellet count much after 30 with the longbeards, so I will not push it with that load much beyond 30.


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Quote from: chatterbox on February 12, 2021, 05:14:24 AM
I shoot TSS out of my turkey rigs, but it's because I think it's the best option available.
For a while I shot the Federal Heviweight, until it got discontinued, and I gave my son all I had left and I stockpiled it whenever I found some.
I shot the 3-1.25-7 hevi-13 out of my 20 with a SumToy choke and got a very even 120 in the 10" circle at 40 yards. Killed my best gobbler to date with that load.
I think chasing numbers can be a frustrating endeavor. More important that you have a very even pattern of at least 100 pellets in the aforementioned  distance.
I get 187 pellets in the 10" circle at 30 yards with Winchester Longbeard 3-1.25-6's, and that's my go to when I'm hunting logging roads or deep woods when I know shots are gonna be close and there isn't a need to deal with a field gobbler hung up at 40.
I know I loose too much in my pellet count much after 30 with the longbeards, so I will not push it with that load much beyond 30.


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Wild to me that your Long Beard pattern is falling apart after 30. Seems like mine's just starting to open up at that point and still honestly too tight at 40. Main reason I started fooling with mine so much is that my Hevi #7 2oz 40yd number is not as good as your 1.25oz 20ga number. It was that I knew the gun and load was capable of much much more.


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Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 12, 2021, 07:58:01 AM

Quote from: chatterbox on February 12, 2021, 05:14:24 AM
I shoot TSS out of my turkey rigs, but it's because I think it's the best option available.
For a while I shot the Federal Heviweight, until it got discontinued, and I gave my son all I had left and I stockpiled it whenever I found some.
I shot the 3-1.25-7 hevi-13 out of my 20 with a SumToy choke and got a very even 120 in the 10" circle at 40 yards. Killed my best gobbler to date with that load.
I think chasing numbers can be a frustrating endeavor. More important that you have a very even pattern of at least 100 pellets in the aforementioned  distance.
I get 187 pellets in the 10" circle at 30 yards with Winchester Longbeard 3-1.25-6's, and that's my go to when I'm hunting logging roads or deep woods when I know shots are gonna be close and there isn't a need to deal with a field gobbler hung up at 40.
I know I loose too much in my pellet count much after 30 with the longbeards, so I will not push it with that load much beyond 30.


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Wild to me that your Long Beard pattern is falling apart after 30. Seems like mine's just starting to open up at that point and still honestly too tight at 40. Main reason I started fooling with mine so much is that my Hevi #7 2oz 40yd number is not as good as your 1.25oz 20ga number. It was that I knew the gun and load was capable of much much more.


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I have only shot with a SumToy .562, but honestly, the number and distance works just fine for me with the longbeards.
I am fortunate that when I shoot the longbeards at 30, my TSS hits very close to the same POI at 40, so for me it's just about changing a shell if where I happen to be hunting changes.


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Have never counted a TSS pattern, basically it is just holy chit that is a good pattern!  I don't really know how you count a 40 yarder, that thing is mince meat!

I check poi and shot a few patterns at 40 just to make sure, haven't killed but one turkey at longer range since switching to TSS, most can be killed with a dove load!